Claiming a Puzzle Cache

[+pictom]

I realize some puzzle caches take you to a great location. Some are more about the puzzle than the find.

 

What are your thoughts on who should get to claim a puzzle cache in the following example:

CacherABC lives and caches on the east coast and signs as many logs as he can. CacherXYZ lives on the west coast and likes to cache but also loves the challenge of a good puzzle.

CacherABC has some puzzles he just can not solve on his own. He knows CacherXYZ and ask for his assistance. CacherXYZ solves the puzzle and tells CacherABC the coords (or the solution on how to work the puzzle).

 

The cache is very easy to find as it was really about the puzzle.

 

So since CacherXYZ did "all the work" and CacherABC just signed the log . . . Who gets to claim this online as a find?

 

If you were , would you claim it?

 

If you were the CO would you allow such a log?

[+dfx]

personally i go by what the log type says. it says "found it" and not "solved it". you can't find a cache without being physically there.

 

the corollary is that you log a cache as found even if you just found it by accident, without ever having looked for it or having solved any puzzle there may be.

[Clan Riffster]

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Seriously though, one advantage to going to as many events as possible is I get to meet so many of the cachers local to me, and pick their brains on all kinds of topics, including how they feel about folks helping others solve their puzzles. The vast majority of locals don't care one way or the other how someone solves one of their puzzles, while a few care deeply. My response to requests for assistance depends largely on whose cache they are talking about, and how much help they want.

 

If someone wants a nudge on a cache, and I already know the owner is OK with phone-a-friend assists, I will gladly provide that nudge. If I don't know the owner's stance on this issue, or if the seeker wants an all out solution, I will guide them to the owner.

 

I like perusing (stalking?) the puzzle caches of others, across the country, just to stir up my grey matter. On those I've been able to solve, I might post a note if I thought it was a really cool puzzle, but I would not post a find unless I put my name in the logbook.

[+fizzymagic]

If you were , would you claim it?

No. I have solved several hundred such puzzles all around the world. I claim the find when I sign the log. This is geocaching, not puzzle-solving. I will probably never make it to all the puzzles I have solved. In the meantime, I can dream about the fun trips I might take.

 

If you were the CO would you allow such a log?

No.

[+redsox_mark]

If XYZ wants to claim it as a find, the easiest way is to have ABC sign both ABC and XYZ. Though I (and I expect most) would say XYZ didn't really find it so shouldn't claim a find.

 

I see what you are saying; they did this as a team and XYZ did the hard work.... but generally you are expected to find the cache and sign the log yourself. It is OK to ask others for help though.... so ABC can claim a find.

[+keehotee]

I realize some puzzle caches take you to a great location. Some are more about the puzzle than the find.

 

What are your thoughts on who should get to claim a puzzle cache in the following example:

CacherABC lives and caches on the east coast and signs as many logs as he can. CacherXYZ lives on the west coast and likes to cache but also loves the challenge of a good puzzle.

CacherABC has some puzzles he just can not solve on his own. He knows CacherXYZ and ask for his assistance. CacherXYZ solves the puzzle and tells CacherABC the coords (or the solution on how to work the puzzle).

 

The cache is very easy to find as it was really about the puzzle.

 

So since CacherXYZ did "all the work" and CacherABC just signed the log . . . Who gets to claim this online as a find?

 

If you were , would you claim it?

 

If you were the CO would you allow such a log?

 

Doesn't make them any better - or any worse - than the people who just get given the answers and go find the cache. Neither of them have done all the work the CO intended to earn the smiley - but unfortunately that seems to be the way of the World nowadays...everybody wants a smiley - whether they earned it or not

[+wimseyguy]

I think the guidelines are pretty clear on this one.

Logging of All Physical Caches

 

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

 

If someone wants to score points at puzzlesolver.com and win prizes all over the world they should do so at that website. This one is for listing and finding geocaches, sometimes after you solve a puzzle to get the actual coords. Finding a geocache means going to the location at which it is hidden, not logging a find from anywhere else just because you solved the puzzle and got the coords. Perhaps you won't be able to find the cache, perhaps it isn't even there to be found?

 

I have cheerfully logged finds on geocaches when I was with someone else who had solved the puzzle that got the coords, did it just last night. But I was at the cache's location and signed the physical log first.

Edited September 6, 2010 by wimseyguy

[Andronicus]

I often log a "note" saying that I solved the puzzle and had fun, and hopefully some day I will be in the area to find it.

[+tozainamboku]

I think the guidelines are pretty clear on this one.

Logging of All Physical Caches

 

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

Remind me to delete your log when you solve my logic puzzle because once again you have used faulty logic to go from "Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed" to "you cannot log a find if you only solved the puzzle and didn't sign the log in the cache."

 

Some cache owners allow a find for solving a puzzle. Some will allow a find when cachers work as a team, with one solving the puzzle and the other finding the cache. There are some caches setup specifically to encourage this team work and the cache owner states on the page that both cachers may log a find.

 

That said, the way the guidelines are written now, if a cache owner so desired, he could delete the log of a puzzle solver who didn't actually go to the cache and sign the log, yet he cannot delete the log of someone who got the answer from someone else by whatever means, so long as they did sign the log when they visited the cache

[+TABjuggler]

If I don't physically sign a log, I do not log a find.

 

If a log is full and I can't squeeze something in, I would still log it as a find though, but even "full" logs, I've found blank space to squeeze "Date - TAB" in on

 

As far as puzzles go, one useful feature for puzzle caches is the bookmarking feature.

 

I have two bookmark lists:

 

"Solved Puzzle Caches Orlando" and "Solved Puzzle Caches for Vacations"

 

The ones in the Orlando group are the ones I have solved, but have not signed the log for yet. The other one is for fun puzzles that I decided to do because they looked fun, or ones that I did in preparation for a vacation, but didn't have time to find when I was there (I have several in New York that I didn't manage to get the time to go to).

 

So if the cacher solves the puzzle for another, great! As long as that other cache didn't care about solving that puzzle.

 

I generally like to try to solve the puzzle myself or keep it on the back burner until it makes sense. I have asked for a nudge on two of them to make sure I was in the right ballpark.

 

One of them, everything I was doing to try to solve the puzzle was giving me something that didn't really point me to a good location where a hide would be. I kinda thought it was making an arrow and directing me to search a general area, so I asked someone that recently found it if the puzzle solved for specific coords or if it solved for a general area. They ended up helping me see something that I'm not sure I would have noticed in a year of looking at that page with all the red herrings on it. I don't feel bad about asking for the hint based on how long I had already spent on every red herring possible on the cache page.

 

The other one, when you get to GZ, you have to "figure out how to find the cache".... i..e the puzzle takes you to a "starting point" and you have to figure out WHERE the hide is when you get there. I just basically asked a general boundary question so I knew if I was supposed to cross roads or not, since when I went out there, there was a combination of things that would have made the hide infinitely more difficult if I potentially had to cross a major road.

 

As far as finding a puzzle cache with a friend. I feel really torn on this issue, since to me, part of logging that smiley should be that you at least solved the puzzle yourself or worked on it together. I don't feel comfortable going out to locate a final with someone who had zero part in solving the puzzle itself.

 

I love puzzle caches though! My favorite one I did so far, we didn't read the puzzle correctly and we were supposed to use the starting coords instead of the coords we found the container telling us where the puzzle was at. We ended up in the completely wrong spot, but I still had a blast. I can't wait for the closure from logging that final.

Edited September 7, 2010 by TABjuggler

[+pictom]

Thanks Everyone! I appreciate the input. I too have a list of solved puzzles I have not yet gone out into the field to get and I don't claim them until I sign the log.

But this is really a sport for fun and each player has to make that decision for what is right for them. So I guess I won't tell a person it's okay but I also won't delete a smiley especially if the person has sent me the exact solution.

Thanks again!

[+NanCycle]

If you want to solve one of my puzzles, I'll write your name in the log for you.

 

GC299TX -- But please don't post the solution.

[+Jumpin' Jack Cache]

If you want to solve one of my puzzles, I'll write your name in the log for you.

 

GC299TX -- But please don't post the solution.

Solved.

 

Looks like George passed very close to me

[+succotash]

I often log a "note" saying that I solved the puzzle and had fun, and hopefully some day I will be in the area to find it.

 

+1

 

This is nice because it lets the cache owner know you appreciated their puzzle.

[Pup Patrol]

I realize some puzzle caches take you to a great location. Some are more about the puzzle than the find.

 

What are your thoughts on who should get to claim a puzzle cache in the following example:

CacherABC lives and caches on the east coast and signs as many logs as he can. CacherXYZ lives on the west coast and likes to cache but also loves the challenge of a good puzzle.

CacherABC has some puzzles he just can not solve on his own. He knows CacherXYZ and ask for his assistance. CacherXYZ solves the puzzle and tells CacherABC the coords (or the solution on how to work the puzzle).

 

The cache is very easy to find as it was really about the puzzle.

 

So since CacherXYZ did "all the work" and CacherABC just signed the log . . . Who gets to claim this online as a find?

 

If you were , would you claim it?

If I solved a puzzle, and for whatever reason didn't search for the cache, find it and log my find in the logbook, I definitely would not claim the smiley.

 

I would, however, post a note to the cache page, saying that I solved the puzzle.

 

If you were the CO would you allow such a log?

If I don't see the name in the physical log book, then I wouldn't allow an online "found it".

 

A note from someone saying they had solved the puzzle...fine.

 

An online "found it" log from the person who did the searching, and actually found the cache, and signed the logbook, could give credit to the other cacher for the help in solving the puzzle.

[+drfred]

If you want to solve one of my puzzles, I'll write your name in the log for you.

 

GC299TX -- But please don't post the solution.

 

Nice one. Got relatively quickly. I may have to incorporate this idea into one of my upcoming toughies... Thanks!

[4wheelin_fool]

This puzzle was first solved (according to Certitude) by someone a few thousand miles away on the other side of the country the day after it was posted. The FTF was a group who traveled quite a bit from another state, and who got 2 FTFs that trip. (the second was another puzzle which had been sitting awhile) You never know what will occur.

 

Solving a puzzle and having it recorded on Certitude is fine, but claiming a find without being there will only annoy others.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I often log a "note" saying that I solved the puzzle and had fun, and hopefully some day I will be in the area to find it.

 

+1

 

This is nice because it lets the cache owner know you appreciated their puzzle.

 

If the puzzle is especially difficult, and it has not yet been solved, it also tells others working on it that it is solvable. It also means you're probably going to get a few email messages asking for help from others working on it.

[+michigansnorkelers]

I'm lousy at puzzles and fail at most I attempt. However, those I do solve give me great satisfaction. But I don't log it found until I actually find the cache.

 

I can't imagine the satisfaction from someone solving the puzzle for you. I CAN imagine satisfaction from someone giving you that little hint to guide you on your way to solving it.

 

That said, the game is ultimately about finding the cache.

 

When you look up the clues, you still have to find the cache.

 

When you read through the logs for clues, you still have to find the cache.

 

When you phone a friend, you still have to find the cache.

 

When you cache in a group and someone else spots the hide, you still are out there finding the cache.

 

When you Google Earth and see the LPC, you still go out and find the cache (but why?)

 

So, in all of these examples, you had some help finding the cache, or even took credit when someone else discovered the hide, but you were THERE.

 

Me, I'll look at the clues, Google Earth, and past logs. I generally hunt alone, because for ME that's what geocaching is all about ... a personal experience. Others seldom hunt alone.

 

We all play the game differently, but I think it should end with us being physically out there finding the tupperware in the woods.

[+Castle Mischief]

I think the guidelines are pretty clear on this one.

Logging of All Physical Caches

 

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

Remind me to delete your log when you solve my logic puzzle because once again you have used faulty logic to go from "Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed" to "you cannot log a find if you only solved the puzzle and didn't sign the log in the cache."

 

Some cache owners allow a find for solving a puzzle. Some will allow a find when cachers work as a team, with one solving the puzzle and the other finding the cache. There are some caches setup specifically to encourage this team work and the cache owner states on the page that both cachers may log a find.

 

That said, the way the guidelines are written now, if a cache owner so desired, he could delete the log of a puzzle solver who didn't actually go to the cache and sign the log, yet he cannot delete the log of someone who got the answer from someone else by whatever means, so long as they did sign the log when they visited the cache

 

So it's okay if I go through your non-puzzle caches, read the cache page and claim a find on them?