I need to vent about DNFs from new gc'ers

[+wimseyguy]

I wouldn't delete anyone's log unless it was an obvious bogus find. Those usually begin with 'greetings from outer space..."

If I think there is an issue with one of my hides, I'll check it out, and post an owner performed maintenance log with the results.

 

I find this approach minimizes unnecessarily drama, which is good out there on the trails. It helps it from escaping from the forums.

[+d+n.s]

I pretty much never suggest a cache is gone if I don't find it. I just assume I can't find it. I might say, "I think this one may be gone" if its had a long series of finds followed by a TON of DNFs, but generally I assume I just failed.

[lbiislander]

You know even fairly experienced cachers can miss caches. I have a guard rail hide. Got four dnf'f in a row. First few were from cachers that had numbers in the teens. Okay they could have missed it. Last one was a cacher with several hundred finds. In fact he was pretty sure it was missing said so and filed a NM and that I should check on it. I did, it was right where I put it and where they did not look. What are you going to do? I cleared the NM and just said "guys, this is a GRC, how hard can that be?". Solid string of finds with an occasional dnf after that. Such is life. Go find some and forget about it.

 

Noob here, what's a GRC?

[GOF and Bacall]

You know even fairly experienced cachers can miss caches. I have a guard rail hide. Got four dnf'f in a row. First few were from cachers that had numbers in the teens. Okay they could have missed it. Last one was a cacher with several hundred finds. In fact he was pretty sure it was missing said so and filed a NM and that I should check on it. I did, it was right where I put it and where they did not look. What are you going to do? I cleared the NM and just said "guys, this is a GRC, how hard can that be?". Solid string of finds with an occasional dnf after that. Such is life. Go find some and forget about it.

 

Noob here, what's a GRC?

 

Guardrail cache.

[+dibug]

I several months ago I posted a forum note about a cache I had made several 5 or 6 attempts to find but couldn't. I indicated that the cache owners hints were not even in the area the coord took me in. I finally took another cacher with me and we still could not find it. We moved brush. We took a rake to the area and nothing. Finally after many experience cachers have also come up empty handed even in larger groups the cache owner has put a hold on it until he can check it out to verify that it is still there. The area has been heavily logged since the hide and the terrain changed plus the cache has a history of being muggled. these mysteries intrigue me and I can not let them go. But I was glad to here the co was going to confirm after a year and a half that it was really there. When he does I plan of going for it again.

[+Zwack_&_Irish_Eyes]

I've logged some DNFs... Usually I can't find it because it's not there, but not always. I tried one cache three times, with others failing to find it as well before it was finally confirmed that it really was missing. One CO seems to be no longer around and one of his caches has been confirmed by several people to not be there.

 

I usually search pretty thoroughly and will post a DNF, stating how hard I searched and that I didn't find it. On a couple of puzzle caches I've asked the owner if the area I thought it was was the right one... Even then I didn't find one that was right there when I knew where to look for it. It wasn't missing, I was.

 

But others I've searched really thoroughly for and not found them, and then they've later not turned up...

 

Personally, I feel that once you've tried looking and not found it, then you really should post a DNF and put it on a watchlist. But if you just cursorily looked in the area you thought it was in (I've done this when I knew there was one in the area but I didn't have any information or a GPS with me) then it's your own choice.

 

I wouldn't post a Needs Maintenance for a DNF and I try not to post on the wrong cache... (I would delete that one myself). Whether a CO wants to ignore my DNF is up to them. I don't expect them to run out and check.

 

Z.

[+sparklygreendog]

To qualify, we are still newbies.

 

I do try to log our DNFs cause I think it helps out subsequent cachers. I notice when a cache has several DNFs and I hold off till another time for such caches as they maybe over my experience. But when I cannot find a a cache I do not presume to think the cache is missing just bc my inexperienced geocaching sense cannot locate the darn little container.

 

If we can not find a cache we (I) would not presume it is washed away or missing unless under extreme conditions, and even then I think I tend to just post a generic DNF. The owner could judge for herself/himself. I think it is presumptious to post that the cache is missing or not in the correct place unless the cacher is really experienced and has some reason to believe the cache is missing (heavy, heavy rains, previous repeated DNFs etc). I guess really experienced is pretty subjective.

 

Us new cachers do appreciate the patience of those more experienced. AND I do think we could be careful in what we note as missing

 

Thanks :-)

[+LizzyHoops]

Hah I feel you because I posted a lot of DNFs as a noob, but I knew better....it's common sense. I explained that I was new, and that was probably the reason for the DNF. However, I did come across one, with less than 10 where there had been a lot of tree maintenance. I posted this observation in my log and qualified it with a "maybe" the cache is gone....sure enough...it was the owner replaced and then I went and found it.

 

So...yes...becarefull with your DNFs, but don't be afraid to post it and let the owner know if you suspect it "might be, maybe, possibly gone...but I'm not sure...I'm still new!"

[+addisonbr]

At best this may mean the next people don't look so hard (having it in the back of their minds that it is missing), and also log a DNF, perpetuating the string of DNF logs.

I see this effect a lot with my caches. One or two DNFs in a row on a cache that is actually in place dramatically increases the likelihood of DNFs in the coming days.

[+Anno Lynke]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

 

she doesnt know how to use the 3 sea shells

[+roziecakes]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

 

she doesnt know how to use the 3 sea shells

 

Now I'm curious... why would she use 3 sea shells in an outhouse?

[+terrkan78]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

 

she doesnt know how to use the 3 sea shells

 

Now I'm curious... why would she use 3 sea shells in an outhouse?

 

I think it's a reference to the movie "Demolition Man," where he didn't know how to use the 3 sea shells in the restrooms of the future.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

Sounds like you need to archive your caches and sell your GPSr.

[mtbikernate]

I ran into a unique situation (for me) this past weekend regarding this issue. I was caching and hiking in a local area with quite a few caches with 4+ terrain ratings because you have to hike a few miles to get there. As such, they are found VERY rarely.

 

The area is a hotbed of activity, though. It's an "experimental forest" unit for the USFS, so it gets lots of management activities - forest thinning, controlled burns, etc. It's also near a university and a lot of students conduct their forestry, biology, and environmental science thesis projects and undergraduate research projects out there. LOTS of people mucking about in the woods.

 

I hunted for 5 caches. I found 3 of those 5, and two of them had me stumped. I posted DNF logs for the two I couldn't find, but I also noted that neither cache had been found (or maintained or even not found) in AT LEAST 1.5yrs. One of them was clearly in an area that had been burned within the past year because there was very little underbrush and almost no deadfall left unburned.

 

I suggested on that cache page that it might be worth a maintenance visit considering the change in conditions.

 

The other was close to the burned area, but the coordinates (as mentioned by previous finders) were off, which put the location close to the recently burned area, too. I asked on the log for a tip (no hint on the cache page) so I could try again. This one hadn't been visited in about 2 years...before a damaging hurricane came through the area and changed a lot.

 

I will probably try again later (hopefully the cache owners will report back to me after doing a well check on their caches) because there are other caches in the area still on my search list. Normally, I'd go off previous logs to check the likelihood of the cache actually being there. But a lot can happen in 2yrs on a heavily managed research forest in hurricane territory.

[Trader Rick & Rosie]

If I can't find a cache, it ain't there, brother. Trust me.

[+j robin]

What has really annoyed me is that there are two consecutive DNFs on one of my caches. The first one was by a cacher with only 7 finds who said that he was sure the cache was missing. His description of the area didn't match the location of the cache. I contacted him privately and was told that he had posted to the wrong page (!). No offer to delete it, but just a an offer to "say nice things in the log" when he finds one of my other caches. I have since taken the liberty of deleting the erroneous log. Then yesterday I had a DNF from a cacher with 0 finds who said "There were severe rains recently. Maybe it washed away? ". Given the location and that even experienced cachers have found the GPS signal to be flaky near gz, I really doubt that is the case.

 

...

Sorry for venting but I sure wish people would have a bit more humility about their caching skills.

First, a question, did you verify the cache was still there? You had five finds the first week and none in the following seven weeks. As unlikely as it may seem, that second person may be right. I know noobs (and I am one) can often be wrong, but...sometimes they are right.

 

Second, why delete DNF's? What I've seen and liked by cache owners is they will post a note in response to a DNF. In the case of the first one, you could write that the person's description doesn't match the GZ and suggest, in a nice way, they double check the coordinates they entered. For the second DNF, a note saying the GZ is not in a wash area (if that is the case) might be an appropriate response.

 

Final thought...There is a learning curve to being a cacher, just as there is to being a cache owner. I have a great amount of appreciation to cache owners who are understanding and kind to the new kids as they learn. I've become a big fan of a couple of CO's just because of how they handle DNF's.

 

I am also a newbie. As time's gone on, I've learned about GPS zapping out at ground zero (my first DNF I blamed on power lines). I've also learned that a DNF is usually a DNF when the cache's last 3-5 logs say DNF. My first DNF, I received some help from a fellow cacher & learned it's easy to overlook when conditions bite. My third DNF taught me I'm better at this than I thought (the cache really WAS gone). DNFs #2 & 3 belong to the same cache. Never a reply from the owner re: the DNFs. Have sent two emails asking if he plans on checking on it or if he has any hints in case I'm just having a blonde moment. No reply. Now what?

 

My true DNF was archived almost immediately. That CO even suggested I try my hand at hiding (oh the ideas swimming in my head). This other seems to have a very active CO when it comes to hides & finds. He semi-recently posted a bitter sounding log regarding missing camo that makes me wonder if he's not one of the disgruntled ones. What do you do when a CO goes AWOL for a month?

[+j robin]

To answer your question about why I deleted one of the DNFs, its because I wrote a PM to the cacher pointing out that it seemed like his description didn't match the general vicinity of gz and to offer a personal hint. I doing so I thought I was being supportive of a new cacher. The cacher wrote back to me indicating that the DNF he posted was in error -- it pertained to a completely different cache. I agree -- I could have posted a note explaining all this, but that seemed like serving up a bit of public humiliation. I felt it would be more graceful to delete a DNF that was in error (by the cacher's own statement).

 

I do intend to check whether the cache is still there. It may well be gone, but that wasn't my point. My point is that I think it's a bit odd for someone with little or no experience finding geocaches to assume that it isn't there simply because they didn't find it. The low number of finds (all concentrated within a week or so of publication) *may* reflect the location of the cache -- it's about a 20 minute walk from parking and there are no easy caches nearby (just *very* tough one -- coupled with extraordinarily hot/humid/rainy weather through the summer.

The problem with being a new cacher is...you don't know what you don't know. It takes experience to really learn how to search well and to learn how things are hidden. Also, a cacher writing a missing note is TRYING to be helpful to the Cache Owner. They MAY (probably) be wrong but they are trying to be helpful with their note.

Agreed on all points.

 

thank you. well said.

[+j robin]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

 

she doesnt know how to use the 3 sea shells

 

Now I'm curious... why would she use 3 sea shells in an outhouse?

 

I think it's a reference to the movie "Demolition Man," where he didn't know how to use the 3 sea shells in the restrooms of the future.

 

talk about a spoiler.

[+Frank Broughton]

Sorry, but I need to whine (snip)

 

A DNF is not an insult to your cache placement, it is a simple statement of fact - the user did not find the cache. I post all my DNF's - micros in poison ivy always get a DNF from me

[+Frank Broughton]

Final thought...There is a learning curve to being a cacher, just as there is to being a cache owner. I have a great amount of appreciation to cache owners who are understanding and kind to the new kids as they learn. I've become a big fan of a couple of CO's just because of how they handle DNF's.

 

Great thought Ecylram! I like how you articulated your response and the substance of it. Kindness...

[+Simon Mates]

I looked hard and it wasn't anywhere I looked. I've found other caches big and little so I've got experience. I just thought I'd let you know I put a new micro/nano/pico on the ground where your cache shoulda been. Logged automatically from my combination mp3/DVD player - geo-catch thing - cell-phone using a app. So their. lol. j/k.

 

(Is there anybody, I didn't tick off?)

[+j robin]

I looked hard and it wasn't anywhere I looked. I've found other caches big and little so I've got experience. I just thought I'd let you know I put a new micro/nano/pico on the ground where your cache shoulda been. Logged automatically from my combination mp3/DVD player - geo-catch thing - cell-phone using a app. So their. lol. j/k.

 

(Is there anybody, I didn't tick off?)

 

me! I LOVE it! now if I could just find my marbles I might find a cache or two...