I need to vent about DNFs from new gc'ers

[+Driddy]

Sorry, but I need to whine about my recent experience as CO of a fairly new cache. First off, I want to say that I am sympathetic to beginner cachers and consider myself to be quite inexperienced with only 100 finds under my belt.

 

What has really annoyed me is that there are two consecutive DNFs on one of my caches. The first one was by a cacher with only 7 finds who said that he was sure the cache was missing. His description of the area didn't match the location of the cache. I contacted him privately and was told that he had posted to the wrong page (!). No offer to delete it, but just a an offer to "say nice things in the log" when he finds one of my other caches. I have since taken the liberty of deleting the erroneous log. Then yesterday I had a DNF from a cacher with 0 finds who said "There were severe rains recently. Maybe it washed away? ". Given the location and that even experienced cachers have found the GPS signal to be flaky near gz, I really doubt that is the case.

 

I am very reluctant to suggest that a cache is missing and generally only do so if there are immediately prior DNF's and I am virtually certain I looked in the right spot (based on hints, descriptions, prior logs, etc.). When I am not sure, I simply post a DNF and give an idea of how long I looked and whether I used the hint, prior logs, etc. -- l prefer to let the CO make their own inference. I usually put my DNFs on the watchlist and more often than not it turns out that the cache really was there.

 

Sorry for venting but I sure wish people would have a bit more humility about their caching skills.

[+lachupa]

I always thought it was a bigger issue when people didn't post DNF's.

[+Driddy]

I always thought it was a bigger issue when people didn't post DNF's.

 

Note:

1) One was a DNF for a different cache and the cacher did not offer to edit or delete the log (in retrospect I should have pointed out these options)

 

2) I do appreciate *genunie* DNFs (such as the second I discussed). What bothers me is the stated presumption that the reason it wasn't found is because it's likely missing.

[+lachupa]

Annoying no doubt but the number of finds someone has shows up on the log entry. If I were looking at logs to decide whether to go for a cache or not and saw a DNF from someone with no finds I would assume they didn't know what they were doing.

[GOF and Bacall]

We all started out as neophytes in the caching hobby. They'll learn. Certainly nothing to get all worked up over.

[+Ecylram]

What has really annoyed me is that there are two consecutive DNFs on one of my caches. The first one was by a cacher with only 7 finds who said that he was sure the cache was missing. His description of the area didn't match the location of the cache. I contacted him privately and was told that he had posted to the wrong page (!). No offer to delete it, but just a an offer to "say nice things in the log" when he finds one of my other caches. I have since taken the liberty of deleting the erroneous log. Then yesterday I had a DNF from a cacher with 0 finds who said "There were severe rains recently. Maybe it washed away? ". Given the location and that even experienced cachers have found the GPS signal to be flaky near gz, I really doubt that is the case.

 

...

Sorry for venting but I sure wish people would have a bit more humility about their caching skills.

First, a question, did you verify the cache was still there? You had five finds the first week and none in the following seven weeks. As unlikely as it may seem, that second person may be right. I know noobs (and I am one) can often be wrong, but...sometimes they are right.

 

Second, why delete DNF's? What I've seen and liked by cache owners is they will post a note in response to a DNF. In the case of the first one, you could write that the person's description doesn't match the GZ and suggest, in a nice way, they double check the coordinates they entered. For the second DNF, a note saying the GZ is not in a wash area (if that is the case) might be an appropriate response.

 

Final thought...There is a learning curve to being a cacher, just as there is to being a cache owner. I have a great amount of appreciation to cache owners who are understanding and kind to the new kids as they learn. I've become a big fan of a couple of CO's just because of how they handle DNF's.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Ecylram

[+Chokecherry]

Earlier this spring right after an extremely heavy rain (a day or so later) we went and looked for a cache. The area was this drainage area near a lake and had obviously had some very strong water flow through there recently. Many large things had been washed down the area. We DNFed that cache indicating what we saw and suggesting that it possibly may have been washed away due to the strong and frequent rains.

 

A couple other people did the same thing noting the same stuff we did when we were at the site.

 

Eventually the cache owner, probably doing regular maintenance, made their way out there noted the cache was still there. Simple as that. Eventually we went back out there found the cache in the wash area but hidden in a pile of heavier rocks which we didn't move before.

 

Numerous things contributed to the original DNF. We were tired, it was buggy, I had a traumatic out house experience (they don't put toilet paper in them that early in the season apparently) etc. We weren't really good at the geocaching thing at that point either. And we learned between that first try and subsequent ones. The cache owner did not take it personally. Did not run out to verify it was there. Just simply cached and let cache.

[jholly]

You know even fairly experienced cachers can miss caches. I have a guard rail hide. Got four dnf'f in a row. First few were from cachers that had numbers in the teens. Okay they could have missed it. Last one was a cacher with several hundred finds. In fact he was pretty sure it was missing said so and filed a NM and that I should check on it. I did, it was right where I put it and where they did not look. What are you going to do? I cleared the NM and just said "guys, this is a GRC, how hard can that be?". Solid string of finds with an occasional dnf after that. Such is life. Go find some and forget about it.

[jholly]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

[+Driddy]

What has really annoyed me is that there are two consecutive DNFs on one of my caches. The first one was by a cacher with only 7 finds who said that he was sure the cache was missing. His description of the area didn't match the location of the cache. I contacted him privately and was told that he had posted to the wrong page (!). No offer to delete it, but just a an offer to "say nice things in the log" when he finds one of my other caches. I have since taken the liberty of deleting the erroneous log. Then yesterday I had a DNF from a cacher with 0 finds who said "There were severe rains recently. Maybe it washed away? ". Given the location and that even experienced cachers have found the GPS signal to be flaky near gz, I really doubt that is the case.

 

...

Sorry for venting but I sure wish people would have a bit more humility about their caching skills.

First, a question, did you verify the cache was still there? You had five finds the first week and none in the following seven weeks. As unlikely as it may seem, that second person may be right. I know noobs (and I am one) can often be wrong, but...sometimes they are right.

 

Second, why delete DNF's? What I've seen and liked by cache owners is they will post a note in response to a DNF. In the case of the first one, you could write that the person's description doesn't match the GZ and suggest, in a nice way, they double check the coordinates they entered. For the second DNF, a note saying the GZ is not in a wash area (if that is the case) might be an appropriate response.

 

Final thought...There is a learning curve to being a cacher, just as there is to being a cache owner. I have a great amount of appreciation to cache owners who are understanding and kind to the new kids as they learn. I've become a big fan of a couple of CO's just because of how they handle DNF's.

To answer your question about why I deleted one of the DNFs, its because I wrote a PM to the cacher pointing out that it seemed like his description didn't match the general vicinity of gz and to offer a personal hint. I doing so I thought I was being supportive of a new cacher. The cacher wrote back to me indicating that the DNF he posted was in error -- it pertained to a completely different cache. I agree -- I could have posted a note explaining all this, but that seemed like serving up a bit of public humiliation. I felt it would be more graceful to delete a DNF that was in error (by the cacher's own statement).

 

I do intend to check whether the cache is still there. It may well be gone, but that wasn't my point. My point is that I think it's a bit odd for someone with little or no experience finding geocaches to assume that it isn't there simply because they didn't find it. The low number of finds (all concentrated within a week or so of publication) *may* reflect the location of the cache -- it's about a 20 minute walk from parking and there are no easy caches nearby (just *very* tough one -- coupled with extraordinarily hot/humid/rainy weather through the summer.

[+Chokecherry]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

 

The note paper I carry in my geo-bag (to add to logs or to take field notes) is not conducive to replacing toilet paper I learned. And a tiny piece of found birch bark acts more like a squeegee than a wiping implement. Also I learned that for some reason people think it's funny to take the latches/locks of the girls outhouses leaving me in the boys outhouse which had a wasp situation. lol Second time around I was happy to see they had stocked with toilet paper at least.

[+Team Canda]

I have experienced this. It's kind of amusing when newbie cachers will say things with such assurance...almost cocky. I've had cachers say, "Cache is missing" or something similar. I always go out and check the next day and post a note confirming the cache is still there. But I must say, it's annoying because I don't normally rush out to check on a cache after one random DNF, but when someone definitively posts "it's gone" in a log...I kind of have no choice but to check, so that I can give assurance to other cachers.

 

And...the cacher's "total number of finds" doesn't show up in the iPhone app (which a lot of people use), so no, you don't always know if the person saying "it's gone" is an experienced cacher or a newbie. And we've all been known to avoid caches when there's been a DNF or two...that's the point.

 

What was more frustrating was when a random cacher posted a DNF and a "Needs Archived" log on my cache, and then proceeded to say in the log that he had "texted" me and that I ignored him. I didn't even know the person...how could he have texted me?? And if he meant he "emailed" me, then he certainly is wrong because I personally respond to every email immediately. I kindly asked him to edit his log, which he didn't...and so I had to remove it. And...the cache was there. However, I replaced it with a fresh container and log to ease any confusion. But what a hassle...all from people who speak with such a guarantee of truthfulness when really, all they mean to say is, "I couldn't find it."

 

Haha, so goes geocaching.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Team Canda

[+Ecylram]

To answer your question about why I deleted one of the DNFs, its because I wrote a PM to the cacher pointing out that it seemed like his description didn't match the general vicinity of gz and to offer a personal hint. I doing so I thought I was being supportive of a new cacher. The cacher wrote back to me indicating that the DNF he posted was in error -- it pertained to a completely different cache. I agree -- I could have posted a note explaining all this, but that seemed like serving up a bit of public humiliation. I felt it would be more graceful to delete a DNF that was in error (by the cacher's own statement).

 

I do intend to check whether the cache is still there. It may well be gone, but that wasn't my point. My point is that I think it's a bit odd for someone with little or no experience finding geocaches to assume that it isn't there simply because they didn't find it. The low number of finds (all concentrated within a week or so of publication) *may* reflect the location of the cache -- it's about a 20 minute walk from parking and there are no easy caches nearby (just *very* tough one -- coupled with extraordinarily hot/humid/rainy weather through the summer.

The problem with being a new cacher is...you don't know what you don't know. It takes experience to really learn how to search well and to learn how things are hidden. Also, a cacher writing a missing note is TRYING to be helpful to the Cache Owner. They MAY (probably) be wrong but they are trying to be helpful with their note.

[+Driddy]

To answer your question about why I deleted one of the DNFs, its because I wrote a PM to the cacher pointing out that it seemed like his description didn't match the general vicinity of gz and to offer a personal hint. I doing so I thought I was being supportive of a new cacher. The cacher wrote back to me indicating that the DNF he posted was in error -- it pertained to a completely different cache. I agree -- I could have posted a note explaining all this, but that seemed like serving up a bit of public humiliation. I felt it would be more graceful to delete a DNF that was in error (by the cacher's own statement).

 

I do intend to check whether the cache is still there. It may well be gone, but that wasn't my point. My point is that I think it's a bit odd for someone with little or no experience finding geocaches to assume that it isn't there simply because they didn't find it. The low number of finds (all concentrated within a week or so of publication) *may* reflect the location of the cache -- it's about a 20 minute walk from parking and there are no easy caches nearby (just *very* tough one -- coupled with extraordinarily hot/humid/rainy weather through the summer.

The problem with being a new cacher is...you don't know what you don't know. It takes experience to really learn how to search well and to learn how things are hidden. Also, a cacher writing a missing note is TRYING to be helpful to the Cache Owner. They MAY (probably) be wrong but they are trying to be helpful with their note.

Agreed on all points.

[+CanUK_TeamFitz]

I've had this happen recently, newbie with 8 finds posted a NM without even a DNF.

 

I didn't believe it but, I like to take a benefit-of-the-doubt approach so I message'd them and asked for details. Got a reply back which still didn't fill me with confidence but I disabled the cache anyway and checked on it the next week.

 

Newbie was right, it was gone. Replaced and thankful.

 

Newbies are sometimes dead on. Keeps me humble to know that just cos I got to the restaurant before someone else doesn't automatically make me a connoisseur of fine cuisine.

[knowschad]

a tiny piece of found birch bark acts more like a squeegee than a wiping implement.

[GOF and Bacall]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

 

The note paper I carry in my geo-bag (to add to logs or to take field notes) is not conducive to replacing toilet paper I learned. And a tiny piece of found birch bark acts more like a squeegee than a wiping implement. Also I learned that for some reason people think it's funny to take the latches/locks of the girls outhouses leaving me in the boys outhouse which had a wasp situation. lol Second time around I was happy to see they had stocked with toilet paper at least.

 

A couple of thoughts here. First is you should always keep a few turns of tissue in a ziploc in your geocaching kit. Second is actually a question. Did you make it home with both socks? Just saying.

[+Nature Kids]

Anytime I can't find a cache, I'm always positive its been muggled or got washed away!

[+popokiiti]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

 

The note paper I carry in my geo-bag (to add to logs or to take field notes) is not conducive to replacing toilet paper I learned. And a tiny piece of found birch bark acts more like a squeegee than a wiping implement. Also I learned that for some reason people think it's funny to take the latches/locks of the girls outhouses leaving me in the boys outhouse which had a wasp situation. lol Second time around I was happy to see they had stocked with toilet paper at least.

 

A couple of thoughts here. First is you should always keep a few turns of tissue in a ziploc in your geocaching kit. Second is actually a question. Did you make it home with both socks? Just saying.

I just imagined paper cuts and slivers - ouch! We are lucky...the cachemobile has a "wee" porta-a-potty, a cheap investment. Been worth every one of the $45 bucks.

[+teamblklab]

Anytime I can't find a cache, I'm always positive its been muggled or got washed away!

 

This is actually a running joke for us. Anytime we've spent a lot of time looking (say 15 min or so) and can't seem to find the cache, one of us will say "must have been muggled" and the other person will say "either that, or it's missing". We then laugh which helps lighten up the mood. The joke is that if we can't find it, it must be missing! LOL!

 

Sometimes we'll decide to leave and come back another time. If we leave, we go home and put the cache on our watchlist and wait for others to find it. This confirms that the cache is still there and helps encourage us to keep looking. One cache we looked for off and on for a month! When we finally found it the victory was soooooo sweet!!!

[+JesandTodd]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

 

The note paper I carry in my geo-bag (to add to logs or to take field notes) is not conducive to replacing toilet paper I learned. And a tiny piece of found birch bark acts more like a squeegee than a wiping implement. Also I learned that for some reason people think it's funny to take the latches/locks of the girls outhouses leaving me in the boys outhouse which had a wasp situation. lol Second time around I was happy to see they had stocked with toilet paper at least.

 

A couple of thoughts here. First is you should always keep a few turns of tissue in a ziploc in your geocaching kit. Second is actually a question. Did you make it home with both socks? Just saying.

 

I carry a small roll of camping TP for just such an occasion...

Edited August 30, 2010 by JesandTodd

[+JesandTodd]

Double posts are common when posting with an iPhone...

Edited August 30, 2010 by JesandTodd

[BCProspectors]

At the very top of the list of things to worry about we have people who log false Found logs followed by people who don't log their DNFs. And then we have people who overuse the Needs Maintenance logs. People who logs false DNFs are waaaaay at the bottom of the list of priorities.

[+Don_J]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

 

I always have a roll in my backpack. It's saved my butt more than once.

[jholly]

I had a traumatic out house experience

 

 

now there is one I never heard before.

 

I always have a roll in my backpack. It's saved my butt more than once.

I think you mean, ah, never mind.

[+Don_J]

Sorry, but I need to whine about my recent experience as CO of a fairly new cache. First off, I want to say that I am sympathetic to beginner cachers and consider myself to be quite inexperienced with only 100 finds under my belt.

 

What has really annoyed me is that there are two consecutive DNFs on one of my caches. The first one was by a cacher with only 7 finds who said that he was sure the cache was missing. His description of the area didn't match the location of the cache. I contacted him privately and was told that he had posted to the wrong page (!). No offer to delete it, but just a an offer to "say nice things in the log" when he finds one of my other caches. I have since taken the liberty of deleting the erroneous log. Then yesterday I had a DNF from a cacher with 0 finds who said "There were severe rains recently. Maybe it washed away? ". Given the location and that even experienced cachers have found the GPS signal to be flaky near gz, I really doubt that is the case.

 

I am very reluctant to suggest that a cache is missing and generally only do so if there are immediately prior DNF's and I am virtually certain I looked in the right spot (based on hints, descriptions, prior logs, etc.). When I am not sure, I simply post a DNF and give an idea of how long I looked and whether I used the hint, prior logs, etc. -- l prefer to let the CO make their own inference. I usually put my DNFs on the watchlist and more often than not it turns out that the cache really was there.

 

Sorry for venting but I sure wish people would have a bit more humility about their caching skills.

 

Locally, we have a guy with 60 LPC finds that stumbles upon a D3 cache. When he can't find it, he post a NM asking the CO to please check. It's annoying. More annoying to some than to others.

 

Unless there is an extremely obvious problem, my DNFs usually ready something like, "Looks like you stumped me".

[+Scubasonic]

Just today I had a cacher post a DNF on one of my caches and said that it must be gone cause he didn't find it.

 

Log was deleted quickly

 

SS

Edited September 2, 2010 by Scubasonic

[+niraD]

Just today I had a cacher post a DNF on one of my caches and said that it must be gone cause he didn't find it.

 

Log was deleted quickly

I don't delete those logs. I just post a Note or Owner Maintenance log that says that the cache is right where it belongs...

[+Ecylram]

Just today I had a cacher post a DNF on one of my caches and said that it must be gone cause he didn't find it.

 

Log was deleted quickly

I don't delete those logs. I just post a Note or Owner Maintenance log that says that the cache is right where it belongs...

Definitely.

[grub54891]

I've had a few dnf's mostly because of my inexperince.I log them but never say it's missing.Usually when I go back I'll find em.Sometimes it takes a few tries.If you delete my dnf it just make's your cache look easier.I usually post it as "I'll be back!"

[+Mark+Karen]

As mentioned people not posting DNF's are the problem. Not so long ago when I hadn't found many I would sometimes not post DNF's and then find later on that the cache was actually missing! I feel I have enough of a "cachers-eye" now that if I don't find a cache I have no trouble posting that!

[+Schuhhirsch]

Edit: sorry, double post

Edited September 2, 2010 by Schuhhirsch

[+Schuhhirsch]

Just today I had a cacher post a DNF on one of my caches and said that it must be gone cause he didn't find it.

 

Log was deleted quickly

 

SS

Why?

[+Mark+Karen]

Just today I had a cacher post a DNF on one of my caches and said that it must be gone cause he didn't find it.

 

Log was deleted quickly

 

SS

 

Do you know for absolute certain that your cache is where it should be? If so you should just post a note saying the cache is in place, if not then you should leave the DNF in place until you can be sure. Either way the DNF shouldn't be deleted IMO.

 

The OP had a different situation where the log was clearly for the wrong cache.

[vagabond]

Just today I had a cacher post a DNF on one of my caches and said that it must be gone cause he didn't find it.

 

Log was deleted quickly

I don't delete those logs. I just post a Note or Owner Maintenance log that says that the cache is right where it belongs...

 

+1

[knowschad]

Double posts are common when posting with an iPhone...

Double posts are common when refreshing the browser after timing out, rather than simply going back in via the link.

[Mr.Yuck]

To answer your question about why I deleted one of the DNFs, its because I wrote a PM to the cacher pointing out that it seemed like his description didn't match the general vicinity of gz and to offer a personal hint. I doing so I thought I was being supportive of a new cacher. The cacher wrote back to me indicating that the DNF he posted was in error -- it pertained to a completely different cache. I agree -- I could have posted a note explaining all this, but that seemed like serving up a bit of public humiliation. I felt it would be more graceful to delete a DNF that was in error (by the cacher's own statement).

 

I do intend to check whether the cache is still there. It may well be gone, but that wasn't my point. My point is that I think it's a bit odd for someone with little or no experience finding geocaches to assume that it isn't there simply because they didn't find it. The low number of finds (all concentrated within a week or so of publication) *may* reflect the location of the cache -- it's about a 20 minute walk from parking and there are no easy caches nearby (just *very* tough one -- coupled with extraordinarily hot/humid/rainy weather through the summer.

The problem with being a new cacher is...you don't know what you don't know. It takes experience to really learn how to search well and to learn how things are hidden. Also, a cacher writing a missing note is TRYING to be helpful to the Cache Owner. They MAY (probably) be wrong but they are trying to be helpful with their note.

 

I own over 40 caches, and the OP is not imagining this by any means. I totally agree with the above statement, that these newer cachers are just trying to be helpful. But why do they, on such a consistent basis, proclaim the cache missing? I'm no sociologist, and the world may never know the answer.

 

However, maybe modern technology will come to the rescue here. Since almost all n00bs are caching with Iphones, and almost all of them are dropping "TFTC" logs on caches when they do find them, perhaps they will just start dropping" DNF" logs on us when they don't.

[+Druce_n_Eulla]

At least the OP is getting responses to his e-mails. We have a very easy cache placed that happend to get a DNF out of the blue. We thought it may have been muggled and went to look. It was in place and a very easy to find cache. The group that were looking for it only had 4 finds. So I sent them a message with information as to where it was. Since they were new I wanted to help them with this one. I have no clue what they were using and why they would have a problem with this simple hide that is basically out in the open and not a micro. Never got a reply e-mail and they never went back to the cache. Only DNF it has had and can't figure out how they had a problem with it.

[+LukeTrocity]

I always assume the cache is there and I missed it. I thought it was missing once and it turns out I just missed it. Learned from my mistake.

[+kwitsman]

Why do new cachers figure that their DNFs mean that the cache is lost? Well, probably because they have yet to find one of those little black magnetic nanos stuck under an old phone booth. Once a cacher has been fooled by something like that, they begin to think "Perhaps it really WAS there, but it was a very sneaky hide." Prior to that, one gets to the site, doesn't see an ammo can, and promptly decides that muggles have stolen it. New cachers may just need more patience and perhaps an apprenticeship with a more experienced guide?

 

Just my thoughts.

Karl

[+GeoGeeBee]

Why do new cachers figure that their DNFs mean that the cache is lost?

 

Why do experienced cache owners feel the need to respond to every DNF posted on their hide? I mean, I understand the OP's point that some newbie who couldn't find a cache shouldn't assume it's gone. But if some newb posts a DNF on your cache, so what? It doesn't require you to do anything. Several people in a row posting DNF's might suggest a problem. But people are SUPPOSED to post DNF's if they don't find the cache. No need to do a maintenance run every time you get one.

[+Ecylram]

The problem with being a new cacher is...you don't know what you don't know. It takes experience to really learn how to search well and to learn how things are hidden. Also, a cacher writing a missing note is TRYING to be helpful to the Cache Owner. They MAY (probably) be wrong but they are trying to be helpful with their note.

 

I own over 40 caches, and the OP is not imagining this by any means. I totally agree with the above statement, that these newer cachers are just trying to be helpful. But why do they, on such a consistent basis, proclaim the cache missing? I'm no sociologist, and the world may never know the answer.

 

However, maybe modern technology will come to the rescue here. Since almost all n00bs are caching with Iphones, and almost all of them are dropping "TFTC" logs on caches when they do find them, perhaps they will just start dropping" DNF" logs on us when they don't.

As one of those n00bs with an IPhone ...

 

Because n00bs don't know all the ways a cache can be hidden. Their only previous experience was what they hid from their parents as teenagers.

 

It takes a little experience to find out all the creative ways that cache can be hidden. It also takes time to learn how NOT to glaze over a scene but actually see the details. Until they learn the skills, they really do believe they have looked everywhere and "it's just not there". They don't know what they don't know.

[+LukeTrocity]

Why do new cachers figure that their DNFs mean that the cache is lost?

 

Why do experienced cache owners feel the need to respond to every DNF posted on their hide? I mean, I understand the OP's point that some newbie who couldn't find a cache shouldn't assume it's gone. But if some newb posts a DNF on your cache, so what? It doesn't require you to do anything. Several people in a row posting DNF's might suggest a problem. But people are SUPPOSED to post DNF's if they don't find the cache. No need to do a maintenance run every time you get one.

Perfect example is I posted a DNF the other day. CO went out and posted a note "cache is right where its supposed to be". I never said it was missing...maybe they assumed it was? I clearly explained my gps was dying so I left the area.

[+Sierra Rat]

I've never equated a DNF with "Needs Maintenance" or cache is missing. When I see a DNF on one of my caches, I just assume they couldn't find it. When I see several DNFs my caches by cachers with more then around 100 finds, I'll go check on the cache. I had one cache that was rated a 4 in difficulty and a number of cachers with over a 1000 finds couldn't find it. I had one cacher with 12 finds who, in their log, stated they "searched for over 15 minutes and couldn't find the cache and posted a Needs Maintence log. I informed them the cache was still were it belonged and suggested that they try to get more experince finding caches of lessor difficluty before they assume a difficult cache is missing.

[+roziecakes]

You know even fairly experienced cachers can miss caches.

 

You're talking about me!!! I have good geosense days, and then REALLY BAD geosense days. I'm one of those cachers who finds really high difficulty ones with ease, and then has a block against diff 1 caches.

[+Mental Ellert-ness]

You know even fairly experienced cachers can miss caches.

 

You're talking about me!!! I have good geosense days, and then REALLY BAD geosense days. I'm one of those cachers who finds really high difficulty ones with ease, and then has a block against diff 1 caches.

 

That's my 7 year old. He finds the difficult ones before me but somehow misses the super easy ones!

[+eagleii]

I would consider myself to be a rookie cacher. I started about 2 years ago, but only recently started caching with frequency. I've found 37 so far and I log all of my DNFs. Seems as if I'm finding about 70% of what I go look for. I never assume that the ones I don't find are missing, but I can't say that doesn't cross my mind, LOL.

 

I'm asking you experienced cachers: How bad is 70%?

 

The most difficult cache I've found was a 4 star, and I have to admit I found that with a bit of luck. It was a log hollowed out with a bison inserted. There have been quite a few caches of less than 3 star difficulty that I could not find. These forums are helping me improve my geosenses, but not quick enough LOL.

[+Lovejoy and Tinker]

It's not so much having to dash out on a maintenance visit for every DNF, it's more the message that is conveyed to the next cachers by a couple of DNF logs that also state the cache is missing.

 

A couple of teams of people with little experience go looking for your cache, and instead of just logging a simple DNF, declare it 'must be missing' or 'found the obvious spot where it was supposed to be but no cache there' or 'identified the rock in the spoiler photo easily but no cache under it - it's definately missing'.

 

The next people along, especially if they are paperless caching, have to hand the last logs, but will not be able to tell how experienced those cachers were, as the find count is not displayed on the logs.

All they see is the last 2 logs were DNF's with statements that the cache is missing.

 

At best this may mean the next people don't look so hard (having it in the back of their minds that it is missing), and also log a DNF, perpetuating the string of DNF logs.

 

At worst, people may be put off even going to look for your cache, until they have seen you have been out and confirmed it is still there.

 

I too have seen lots of examples where people not only declare a DNF but state categorically that they were definately in the right place and that it must be missing. Several days later, someone comes along and finds it easily.

Thank goodness for those people who go out without reading previous logs first

[+Brooklyn51]

I would consider myself to be a rookie cacher. I started about 2 years ago, but only recently started caching with frequency. I've found 37 so far and I log all of my DNFs. Seems as if I'm finding about 70% of what I go look for. I never assume that the ones I don't find are missing, but I can't say that doesn't cross my mind, LOL.

 

I'm asking you experienced cachers: How bad is 70%?

 

The most difficult cache I've found was a 4 star, and I have to admit I found that with a bit of luck. It was a log hollowed out with a bison inserted. There have been quite a few caches of less than 3 star difficulty that I could not find. These forums are helping me improve my geosenses, but not quick enough LOL.

 

Nothing wrong with 70% at all, especially on the higher difficulty caches. The most important part is to enjoy it enough to go out and look for another one after you've missed the last 3.

 

DNFs are part of the record and can be pretty helpful, even the ones that say the cache is missing when it isn't, since it can relate to the "real" difficulty rating instead of the posted one. We don't usually worry too much about a DNF on our caches unless there have several in a row or unless it's a particularly easy hide. But if after checking on it, it's still there , we just post a note saying so. We've never felt the need to delete a log.

[+kunarion]

I sure wish people would have a bit more humility about their caching skills.

Some long-time cacher's DNFs have been frustrating to me. It's not just a n00b issue. The ones with thousands of finds know their amazing caching ability exceeds my pitiful hide. Therefore, they "know" for certain it's gone.

 

But don't delete the logs. Encourage people to type something. Ideally they'd post constructive criticism, but anything that's family-friendly should remain. Even logs on the wrong logs -- maybe there's more going on than just clicking the wrong button (does that page title, etc., look just like another nearby cache page?). Doesn't matter, the next guy reading those DNFs may avoid to making the same mistake.

 

I agree that they're jumping the gun by declaring "it washed away". But I typed string of DNFs on a cache, a few months ago, never suggesting it was missing, and still the CO went to check on it. The box is so obvious, I guess the Cache Owner could not believe I was that bad at finding. Believe it.

Edited September 4, 2010 by kunarion