Is it me?

[+Pippa's Crew]

I am sorry to sound so very moany... but recently there has been a spate of caches published around Shanklin where I live. There are three different hiders. However, all the hides have been found first by one or other of the other two... Now, I'm not normally suspicious but it seems to me these people are working together to hide caches for each other and be first to find etc...

 

I know that FTF is not actually the object of the game but even so...

 

I haven't been doing this long, but this seems a bit of poor sportsmanship...

 

Moan over

[The Hearse]

Checking sets is not common practise in the UK and so what I am about to describe most probably does not apply in this instance. Elsewhere we would set caches as a team and once set, a team member, who stayed away from the set, would look for it to check co-ordinates and ensure how the cache looked to the setter in the description was how it would appear to someone approaching the cache anew. Some of those that checked the cache would claim a FTF, the scallywags.

 

To address your complaint, there are clearly those that are able to sustain incredible find rates at each outing and claiming an FTF when you accompany the setter is low down the heinous crime league. Geocaching is a personal thing to which you must apply personal standards and forget what everyone else may be up to. I know it can be frustrating for those that enjoy FTFs but there are still plenty about to be bagged.

[+munchtime]

I am sorry to sound so very moany... but recently there has been a spate of caches published around Shanklin where I live. There are three different hiders. However, all the hides have been found first by one or other of the other two... Now, I'm not normally suspicious but it seems to me these people are working together to hide caches for each other and be first to find etc...

 

I know that FTF is not actually the object of the game but even so...

 

I haven't been doing this long, but this seems a bit of poor sportsmanship...

 

Moan over

 

Hi Pippa's Crew

 

You will probably find that each of these Cachers has pocket queries set up to tell them of each new published cache. They will get an email telling them immediatley it's published. If they have a smart phone they will have set it up to go straight to their handset, so they'll be out as soon as it beeps.

 

Munch

[+Pippa's Crew]

hi Munch - I have a pq set up for new caches. These three people are all setting and finding each others. I recieve an email, i check the log for the cache and the same guys have already found it... :-( (on one memorable occasion, one of them has logged a cache 4 times!)

 

Let em get on with it, just seems poor sportsmanship...

[+Yorkie30]

I have known one cache to be found a day before it was published due to the hider letting the other geocacher have the details and then it was held up been published for 1 day but in the log book the FTF was dated 1 day before been listed on GC.com.

 

It doesn't happen very often and I know there are lots of people who enjoy the FTF challenge but I just felt the above example was a little dishearting for people who play the game in a more traditional way.

[+HazelS]

There's a certain team here that obviously work in cahoots... I've challenged them on it, but to be honest, I really can't be bothered... who're they really kidding?

[+keehotee]

There's a certain team here that obviously work in cahoots... I've challenged them on it, but to be honest, I really can't be bothered... who're they really kidding?

 

They're no worse than husband/wife/family "teams" that cache in two different places at the same time - they're not playing the game the way we play it, but they're not hurting anybody - and we're definitely not losing anything at the end of the day because of it

[team tisri]

There's a certain team here that obviously work in cahoots... I've challenged them on it, but to be honest, I really can't be bothered... who're they really kidding?

 

They're no worse than husband/wife/family "teams" that cache in two different places at the same time - they're not playing the game the way we play it, but they're not hurting anybody - and we're definitely not losing anything at the end of the day because of it

 

I agree - for all some practises seem like "cheating" it's not like anybody else's experience of the sport is diminished by whatever other people do, as long as they are replacing the caches where they found them.

 

It can be disheartening to travel any distance for the FTF only to find someone beat you to it, but that's part of the risk you take going for the FTF. At the same time it seems (especially on these forums) that people lose sight of the fact geocaching is supposed to be FUN. Enjoy the sport however you play it and don't fuss about what other people do.

[+currykev]

There's a certain team here that obviously work in cahoots... I've challenged them on it, but to be honest, I really can't be bothered... who're they really kidding?

 

They're no worse than husband/wife/family "teams" that cache in two different places at the same time - they're not playing the game the way we play it, but they're not hurting anybody - and we're definitely not losing anything at the end of the day because of it

 

Those husband/wife/family "cheats" can also PAF if they get stuck.

I can guess who isn't going to post a reply on this thread.

[+Amberel]

Hi Pippa's Crew

 

You will probably find that each of these Cachers has pocket queries set up to tell them of each new published cache. They will get an email telling them immediatley it's published. If they have a smart phone they will have set it up to go straight to their handset, so they'll be out as soon as it beeps.

 

Munch

While this may be true, it's also true that caches often are logged at the time they are set, by people accompanying the setter. It happened to me very late last night. A new cache appeared only a few hundred feet from my home and I was signing the log within 5 minutes of the notification arriving.

 

There was already a signature in the log, but it was undated, which is slightly odd. The log claimed the FTF. The finder didn't go online to log it immediately, which it would have been courteous to do for an FTF but which of course they couldn't do if they were waiting for it to be published and didn't pick up their emails. They have logged it this morning, once more claiming the FTF. The finder's profile shows a picture of themselves, and the setter's profile shows a picture of himself with his granddaughter. Guess what .

 

However, this attempt at subterfuge pales into insignificance compared to a TerraCache I did a year or more ago. TerraCaches are visited less frequently that Groundspeak caches, and obviously the person accompanying the cache setter thought no one would visit for several days. The cache was published on Saturday evening and I made a round trip of 100 miles on Sunday, to find a log dated for the following Monday. The log claimed the FTF, which on TerraCaching is more formal than on Groundspeak, with an FTF code in the cache that the first finder removes and uses to validate the FTF. But the thing I found most disappointing was the text of the log. The cache is at a tourist attraction which runs a special feature at weekends, and despite being there with the cache setter when the feature WAS running, the log described in some detail how it was so much quieter on the Monday when the feature was NOT running. To be fair, when it was obvious that something was amiss because my "found it" log predated the FTF "found it" log, they did email me and apologise.

 

Now it's one thing to log the cache when you are with the cache setter and not put a date on the log, and then pretend it was a "normal" FTF. There was an intention to deceive, by omitting information. In the case of the TerraCache, the finder had gone to some lengths to tell outright lies in the log.

 

Now, despite what it may seem, I don't actually give a toss about the FTF. What does disappoint me is that there are people who intend to deceive, and if they go to the trouble of deceiving in these trivial matters they will probably continue to deceive in more important ones. In this case I'm particularly disappointed because the deception involved a young child, who is being taught that such deception is OK .

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Pippa's Crew]

What does disappoint me is that there are people who intend to deceive, and if they go to the trouble of deceiving in these trivial matters they will probably continue to deceive in more important ones.

 

My thoughts exactly...

(wishing I had an applause smiley )

[+The Blorenges]

What does disappoint me is that there are people who intend to deceive, and if they go to the trouble of deceiving in these trivial matters they will probably continue to deceive in more important ones.

 

My thoughts exactly...

(wishing I had an applause smiley )

 

Here - Borrow mine

 

MrsB

Edited August 29, 2010 by The Blorenges

[team tisri]

Now, despite what it may seem, I don't actually give a toss about the FTF. What does disappoint me is that there are people who intend to deceive, and if they go to the trouble of deceiving in these trivial matters they will probably continue to deceive in more important ones. In this case I'm particularly disappointed because the deception involved a young child, who is being taught that such deception is OK .

 

Rgds, Andy

 

And the same child is probably also being taught that it's perfectly OK to take anything you like from a cache without trading, and all sorts of other things that are far more important than who ticked a box first.

[+Team Noodles]

On the flipside, what about this scenario:

A loving granddad who has just programmed the numbers in for his grandchild, who then excitedly found the cache and had a ftf.

Can you imagine the smile on her face and how the Granddad felt when he saw her smile?

 

*shrugs*

life is to short to worry about these things

[+mickyz]

Go Pippa go . You should get at least one FTF tonight

 

Good luck

[+cindypenney]

Hi Pippa

 

That does sound annoying. We're in Ryde and have been looking up all the geocaches on the Island- there sure are loads in Shanklin- a whole day out I think!

[+Pippa's Crew]

Go Pippa go . You should get at least one FTF tonight

 

Good luck

 

HAHAHAHa

Thanks

We got 4!

[+Pippa's Crew]

Hi Pippa

 

That does sound annoying. We're in Ryde and have been looking up all the geocaches on the Island- there sure are loads in Shanklin- a whole day out I think!

 

There are loads here - we haven't done them all yet either!

[+Amberel]

On the flipside, what about this scenario:

A loving granddad who has just programmed the numbers in for his grandchild, who then excitedly found the cache and had a ftf.

Can you imagine the smile on her face and how the Granddad felt when he saw her smile?

 

*shrugs*

life is to short to worry about these things

There are two issues here.

 

The first is that setting things up in this way backfires when the child finds out it was arranged and not properly earned. I've brought up 3 kids myself and the satisfaction they got when they earned something for themselves was far greater than when it was just handed to them on a plate.

 

The second issue was the deception involved in not dating the log. I'm quite sure this was deliberate.

 

I don't give a toss about the FTF. I do give a toss about integrity, even in small things.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Team Noodles]

The first is that setting things up in this way backfires when the child finds out it was arranged and not properly earned.

 

hmmm??? She found it first, she got the coords first.

if I cross list a cache listing are we going to have this discussion as well? Will we require opencaching and GS reviewers to review and release the listing at the exact same time??? Just to make it fair so someone can properly earn it?

 

the above aside..

 

I am playing devil's advocate here, and I can make up 100 reasons for him to do what he did. We don't know any of the ins and outs at all.

 

My point was to illustrate these forums and most responses are very trigger happy and negative. Most posts tend to presume the 'bad', rather then a possible 'good' scenario .

[+Amberel]

hmmm??? She found it first, she got the coords first.

That fails to address either of my points.

 

I gave 2 examples.

 

In the case of the TerraCache, the first "finder" had gone to some lengths to fabricate an entirely false log, describing events as they would be on the future date they had entered on their log. You may call this active dishonesty.

 

In the case of the Groundspeak cache the date had been omitted, which is something I otherwise see only on the rarest of occasions. The balance of probabilities is overwhelmingly in favour of this being deliberate. Furthermore, when the online log was made after mine this wasn't mentioned. It was an attempt to conceal the fact that it had been found at the same time as it was set. This is dishonesty by omission.

 

Had the situation been the same but the logs not tried to conceal it, I would not even have mentioned it. As I keep repeating, I don't care about the FTF, but I do care about dishonesty, even in small things.

 

Your reference to cross listing is irrelevant because I've never seen any attempt to be dishonest about logging cross listed caches.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Pippa's Crew]

It was an attempt to conceal the fact that it had been found at the same time as it was set. This is dishonesty by omission.

 

Its happened again today here...another cache set by one of this group, and the FTF is gone before I even get to open the page - like I say a FTF is fun but not the be all and end all - the kids like to go out for new ones, they get a thrill from it, and I get a kick from them being pleased. But otherwise doesn't bother me. Its the dishonesty that gets me...

 

Neing quite new to this I don't really know what its like elsewhere...

[+Bear and Ragged]

It was an attempt to conceal the fact that it had been found at the same time as it was set. This is dishonesty by omission.

 

Its happened again today here...another cache set by one of this group, and the FTF is gone before I even get to open the page - like I say a FTF is fun but not the be all and end all - the kids like to go out for new ones, they get a thrill from it, and I get a kick from them being pleased. But otherwise doesn't bother me. Its the dishonesty that gets me...

 

Neing quite new to this I don't really know what its like elsewhere...

I use another forum.

Any new caches placed, the co-ords get posted/emailed for the other locals...

Competition for FTF is amongst the locals on the forum.

[+nasogastric]

Hi Pippa's crew and other IOW cachers.

 

Waves from Newport.

 

I had noticed this with some recent logs also, thought I was being paranoid.

[+Pippa's Crew]

Hi Pippa's crew and other IOW cachers.

 

Waves from Newport.

 

I had noticed this with some recent logs also, thought I was being paranoid.

 

Hi Nasogastric

(where did you get that name from?)

 

Waves back from Shanklin

 

Glad its not just us then...

Edited September 7, 2010 by Pippa's Crew

[+Palujia]

Just browsing through the forum and came across the thread. It reminds me of when I took up Golf - the odd "muligan" here and there and sooner or later it occurs to you that you are really only playing against yourself, and the more truthfull you are with your scoring the better you feel when you actually do beat your handicap !! Not by not counting airstrokes and the odd mis*** - but by playing exactly by the rules ! Same with caching - not logging DNFs, teaming up with other cachers and "pooling" results by someone signing for all. The satisfaction of looking back on the profile and remembering the squelching through the bog, getting scratched by thorns, and stung by nettles, and after the second or third DNF eventually finding that elusive cache ! Priceless. Have now invested in a Garmin 550 so can now equate my photos with caches even better

Don't get like certain football managers though - "It's not life and death - its more important than that "

Happy caching and don't worry about FTFs - you'll get some sooner or later. If you read back on this forum and on the GAGB forums about FTFs you will see that some cachers go for a long period without FTFs and others set PQs and are on the move as soon as the e mail arrives on the mobile. I have had several myself without trying in anyway and have only been caching since March this year !!

cheers

[team tisri]

The thing I figure with going for an FTF is you never know who else has got the same email and at what time, who lives closer than me, who wasn't doing something else for a couple of hours before seeing the mail, and so on.

 

I've tried to get an FTF on a cache half a mile from home and been beaten to it, I've also grabbed an FTF on a cache six miles from home and beat the people who live less than 400 yards from it. I took off on the bike to grab one FTF and nobody else found it for three days. It's just the way it goes.

[+FantasyRaider]

I use another forum.

Any new caches placed, the co-ords get posted/emailed for the other locals...

Competition for FTF is amongst the locals on the forum.

 

We get loads of ‘unofficial’ FTF’s around here in North Wales and it’s all to do with ‘fun’.

I think the emphasis is on ‘unofficial FTF’.

 

But we are not emailed the co-ords for the caches ... we Geostalk.

Well.... when I say ‘we’ I don’t mean me .... as I have tried it once and just got lost.

 

Geostalking is not as easy as it sounds but some are really good at it, as the link below shows:

Geostalking The Cob circular

 

Team Marzipan is always being geostalked as he takes so many pictures of GZ, so he organized a meet to celebrate geostalking ... and .... Also raised money for Welsh Mega event.

the Mega Wales 2011

[Deceangi]

Also raised money for Welsh Mega event.

 

Including selling a carrot for £7 thank you andycop for saving my pocket and a huge earache when I got home

 

Deci

[+FantasyRaider]

Also raised money for Welsh Mega event.

 

Including selling a carrot for £7 thank you andycop for saving my pocket and a huge earache when I got home

 

Deci

 

His face was quite a picture when he won that carrot wasn't it?

[+mollyjak]

Please keep up the good work on the fundraising as we need all the help we can get

 

Although a carrot for £7 - how much would a cooked dinner cost???? LOL

[+Ant89]

I think there was supposed to be included in the bid