50 foot circle

[+JZKA]

In reading the logs for a cache where i had a DNF - (actually i was #3 of about 5 with a DNF) someone else subsequently found the cache and posted to "remember the 50 foot circle". i assume that when you 'zero out' this cacher assumes that you should search all within a 50' circle of that area due to your gps unit not being so accurate - though i dont have that issue with any of the other caches ive found (or not found). Also - this is a micro cache in a parking lot - and im not one to be searching around a bunch of parked cars

 

Now i understand my gps will not always zero out and the cache jump out at me - but is it 'normal' for some to get kinda close with the coordinates to make it more of a challenge?

[Skippermark]

Yes, people have been known to post "soft" coordinates to make things "challenging." Bad coordinates do not make a cache hard. They just make people look in the wrong spot.

[+JZKA]

Bad coordinates do not make a cache hard. They just make people look in the wrong spot.

agreed - i would rather have a clever hide than bad coordinates

[+conradv]

Soft Coordinates, Micro, Parking Lot. I must say that cache has it all.

[+GeoGeeBee]

Looking at the previous logs, it appears to have been a quick find for most of the people that logged it. And at least one finder praised the accuracy of the coordinates. It does appear that many finders are expecting a skirt-lifter, and this isn't one.

 

Hmmm... I have a trip to Tampa coming up in October. I might have to swing by there and check it out in person!

[+lachupa]

Soft Coordinates, Micro, Parking Lot. I must say that cache has it all.

 

+1

 

It does rather sound like a good time. Now if there were just some broken glass or some poison ivy you'd be all set.

[+mdplayers]

Soft Coordinates, Micro, Parking Lot. I must say that cache has it all.

 

+1

 

It does rather sound like a good time. Now if there were just some broken glass or some poison ivy you'd be all set.

 

Thou shalt not speaketh of the nasty PI! I have a severe case of it right now. Going to pick up a prescription for prednisone on my way home.

 

I know; off topic, couldn't resist. back to the regularly scheduled program....

[+Castle Mischief]

In reading the logs for a cache where i had a DNF - (actually i was #3 of about 5 with a DNF) someone else subsequently found the cache and posted to "remember the 50 foot circle". i assume that when you 'zero out' this cacher assumes that you should search all within a 50' circle of that area due to your gps unit not being so accurate

 

I have no way of know that the coords were soft on purpose but consider that most civilian-grade GPS receivers are accurate to about 20 feet and that if the hider was off by 20 and your unit is off by another 20 that 50 really isn't that unreasonable or uncommon if somewhat on the outer edge of reasonable expectations.

 

- though i dont have that issue with any of the other caches ive found (or not found). Also - this is a micro cache in a parking lot - and im not one to be searching around a bunch of parked cars

 

The best way to avoid parked cars is to avoid parking lots. They can be sneaky at times, but you soon learn to sense their approach by the tell-tell sounds they make.

[+JZKA]

The best way to avoid parked cars is to avoid parking lots. They can be sneaky at times, but you soon learn to sense their approach by the tell-tell sounds they make.

 

nice

 

now i know - if i find it easy to park near the cache location - im likely in a parking lot

[+fizzymagic]

I have no way of know that the coords were soft on purpose but consider that most civilian-grade GPS receivers are accurate to about 20 feet and that if the hider was off by 20 and your unit is off by another 20 that 50 really isn't that unreasonable or uncommon if somewhat on the outer edge of reasonable expectations.

 

Only in the worst of conditions would 50 feet be on the edge of reasonable expectations. As I've posted many times in the past, the errors between 2 GPS units are (at the very worst) entirely uncorrelated, which means that the expected error for 2 GPS units each with 20-foot errors is about 28 feet. 50 feet is twice that, which (given the errors) is a one-in-several-thousand event. Not "reasonable" in any case.

 

In a canyon with severely obstructed satellite views, a 50-foot error would be quite common. In a parking lot, not so much.

[+Cache O'Plenty]

And, remember, the errors only are additive if they are off in the same direction! It's entirely possible that they could be offsetting each other. The 28 ft. is the max normally encountered.

 

Now, in this parking lot, are there overhead power lines? Or is there a block wall or building adjoin GZ? Those could throw both units into a tizzy.

[+niraD]

It does appear that many finders are expecting a skirt-lifter, and this isn't one.

I've found several caches that were placed within a few feet of a very common hide location (e.g., lamp post, guard rail, UPS, newspaper box, park bench, hollow tree), but were actually hidden somewhere else. Those can be very difficult, just because it can take a while to start looking anywhere but the common hide location.

[+briansnat]

In reading the logs for a cache where i had a DNF - (actually i was #3 of about 5 with a DNF) someone else subsequently found the cache and posted to "remember the 50 foot circle". i assume that when you 'zero out' this cacher assumes that you should search all within a 50' circle of that area due to your gps unit not being so accurate - though i dont have that issue with any of the other caches ive found (or not found). Also - this is a micro cache in a parking lot - and im not one to be searching around a bunch of parked cars

 

Now i understand my gps will not always zero out and the cache jump out at me - but is it 'normal' for some to get kinda close with the coordinates to make it more of a challenge?

 

searching a 50 ft circle is good advice even for when the hider tried to get the best coordinates possible. In fact I might say expand that to a 100 ft circle.

 

And no it's not normal for someone post kinda of close coords to make it more of a challenge. It happens, but it is the exception. Usually when you find caches off from the posted coords it is a matter of the inherent inaccuracy in GPS units, yours and the hider's.

[+MR57]

In reading the logs for a cache where i had a DNF - (actually i was #3 of about 5 with a DNF) someone else subsequently found the cache and posted to "remember the 50 foot circle". i assume that when you 'zero out' this cacher assumes that you should search all within a 50' circle of that area due to your gps unit not being so accurate - though i dont have that issue with any of the other caches ive found (or not found). Also - this is a micro cache in a parking lot - and im not one to be searching around a bunch of parked cars

 

Now i understand my gps will not always zero out and the cache jump out at me - but is it 'normal' for some to get kinda close with the coordinates to make it more of a challenge?

I don't look past 20ft radius. Even with that it can be alot of searching. I'm not getting paid for this.

[+WRASTRO]

In reading the logs for a cache where i had a DNF - (actually i was #3 of about 5 with a DNF) someone else subsequently found the cache and posted to "remember the 50 foot circle". i assume that when you 'zero out' this cacher assumes that you should search all within a 50' circle of that area due to your gps unit not being so accurate - though i dont have that issue with any of the other caches ive found (or not found). Also - this is a micro cache in a parking lot - and im not one to be searching around a bunch of parked cars

 

Now i understand my gps will not always zero out and the cache jump out at me - but is it 'normal' for some to get kinda close with the coordinates to make it more of a challenge?

I don't look past 20ft radius. Even with that it can be alot of searching. I'm not getting paid for this.

But do you typically enjoy it? If not you might want to find another hobby.

[+power69]

In reading the logs for a cache where i had a DNF - (actually i was #3 of about 5 with a DNF) someone else subsequently found the cache and posted to "remember the 50 foot circle". i assume that when you 'zero out' this cacher assumes that you should search all within a 50' circle of that area due to your gps unit not being so accurate - though i dont have that issue with any of the other caches ive found (or not found). Also - this is a micro cache in a parking lot - and im not one to be searching around a bunch of parked cars

 

Now i understand my gps will not always zero out and the cache jump out at me - but is it 'normal' for some to get kinda close with the coordinates to make it more of a challenge?

I don't look past 20ft radius. Even with that it can be alot of searching. I'm not getting paid for this.

i'm the same way. i'll go out about 30 feet. if you're consistantly off 40+ feet and theres no canopy or other things obstructing signal then the rest of your and future hides go on ignore.

soft coords don't make a lame hide clever, they just waste my time which is no fun.

Edited September 27, 2010 by power69

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Soft Coordinates, Micro, Parking Lot. I must say that cache has it all.

 

+1

 

It does rather sound like a good time. Now if there were just some broken glass or some poison ivy you'd be all set.

 

+1

 

But you forgot thorns, ticks and stinging nettles.

[+Sol seaker]

I used to have to search in an 80 foot radius until I got a WAAS enabled GPS.

 

Isn't technology great!!

 

Now it's often spot on if they did a good job of listing the coord's.

 

when I first starting using this GPS I thought I was almost cheating it was so accurate.

 

Now when I find them that far off I know they are either trying to make it hard

 

(like http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b5-917a7a7ef5c4

which is really a 2 hide when you know the coords are off, but I'm just as happy I got a 5 out of it)

 

or more likely...

 

They placed the cache using an I-phone

[+Sol seaker]

Sorry, double post

Edited September 28, 2010 by Sol seaker

[+Frank AZ]

I have one that is slightly "soft" but, if you stand at the GZ area the cache is "in plain site"

[+eagsc7]

... 50 Feet. HA. I will Normally look within a 150-200 ft circle of GZ. Of course, we will always take into account the surroundings. Sometimes it is smaller, and other times is bigger.

 

The Steaks

[GOF and Bacall]

Soft coordinates are not clever. If I figure out that a CO uses soft coordinates I will put all their caches on my ignore list. But I don't assume they are doing it intentionally if I can find the cache within about thirty feet.

[Andronicus]

Soft Coordinates, Micro, Parking Lot. I must say that cache has it all.

 

+1

 

It does rather sound like a good time. Now if there were just some broken glass or some poison ivy you'd be all set.

 

+1

 

But you forgot thorns, ticks and stinging nettles.

Place this cache on your ignore list.

[GOF and Bacall]

Soft Coordinates, Micro, Parking Lot. I must say that cache has it all.

 

+1

 

It does rather sound like a good time. Now if there were just some broken glass or some poison ivy you'd be all set.

 

+1

 

But you forgot thorns, ticks and stinging nettles.

Place this cache on your ignore list.

 

If you can figure out ahead of time that it is such a cache. Often times it isn't obvious until you get there.

[+Ecylram]

Soft coordinates are not clever. If I figure out that a CO uses soft coordinates I will put all their caches on my ignore list. But I don't assume they are doing it intentionally if I can find the cache within about thirty feet.

Soft coordinates drive me insane. It's a poor man's hiding technique .

 

I've now cached enough in my area now to know which cacher's have better coordinates. I've got one who, on certain types of caches, will make the coordinates fuzzy by posting a nearby open location. I know his style and can usually narrow down the search quickly.

 

Another prolific cacher consistently posts coordinates that are 20-30 feet off. Kind of a pain when dealing with film canisters in trees. I've learned with her to check the GZ then look for spots about 20 feet away that match the description. Works pretty good. I don't believe she's does it on purpose, based on exchanges we've had.

 

Sometimes coordinates are soft because it's hard to get good coordinates in that location, through no fault of anybody.

 

For those who DELIBERATELY post fuzzy coordinates... a pox on thee. Seriously though, there are other things you can do to make the hide more challenging. For example:

• Use better camoflauge techniques
  
• Choose different locations where the hide isn't so obvious
  
• Chose locations where GPS isn't as accurate.
  
• Create puzzle caches or offset caches
  

Adding 'difficulty' by posting bad coordinates is lame. It does not paint the CO in a good light and cachers do notice.

[+L0ne.R]

Soft coordinates drive me insane. It's a poor man's hiding technique .

 

I've now cached enough in my area now to know which cacher's have better coordinates. I've got one who, on certain types of caches, will make the coordinates fuzzy by posting a nearby open location. I know his style and can usually narrow down the search quickly.

 

Another prolific cacher consistently posts coordinates that are 20-30 feet off. Kind of a pain when dealing with film canisters in trees. I've learned with her to check the GZ then look for spots about 20 feet away that match the description. Works pretty good. I don't believe she's does it on purpose, based on exchanges we've had.

 

Sometimes coordinates are soft because it's hard to get good coordinates in that location, through no fault of anybody.

 

For those who DELIBERATELY post fuzzy coordinates... a pox on thee. Seriously though, there are other things you can do to make the hide more challenging. For example:

• Use better camoflauge techniques
  
• Choose different locations where the hide isn't so obvious
  
• Chose locations where GPS isn't as accurate.
  
• Create puzzle caches or offset caches
  

Adding 'difficulty' by posting bad coordinates is lame. It does not paint the CO in a good light and cachers do notice.

 

That last line is so true. I'm also an avid letterboxer and avid letterbox forumer (is that a word?). It drives me batty to always read how geocachers are bad for the environment because we stomp every living thing and turn over every rock and log in a 50 foot circle looking for a cache. Of course it's not true but fuzzy coordinates and vague or no hints sure adds fuel to the fire.

[+u.rusty]

I have been amazed at the number of caches (of the few that I have found) that were in arm's reach of GZ as indicated by my GPSr. If I don't spot the cache right off, I usually mark the spot by placing my trekking poles and work out from there. I found one cache at about 15' from indicated GZ, the rest were closer. Of course, I don't find every cache. If the coordinates are deliberately off, say within a 50' circle, chances are I wouldn't find it and would post a DNF.

 

I think that the coordinates should be as accurate as possible, and the method of concealment or camouflage should be what make the cache hard to find.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Since the guidelines call for accurate GPS coords for the hide, it should be within 20'. 30' at the absolute worst. Found one the other day at 45'. I posted 'corrected coords'!

Posting 'soft' coords is sadistic, nasty and in violation of the guidelines.

[+Chokecherry]

I DNF one that consistently finders said was 70 feet away from the coordinates. I would say that's accurate. I wasn't willing to damage landscaping to look where the clue said to look and the coordinates put me inside a building.

 

I recently found one that was 40 feet or so away from the coordinates (another person noted that as well). After my log where I mentioned it the owners went out and found it had migrated. I'll never understand how those things migrate so far.

 

I know someone else who deliberately does soft coords but I make a practice out of not seeking those caches.

 

I know it's hard to get coordinates in some circumstances, but I've also seen spot on coords in less than favorable GPS locations.

[+Yshf]

For me it's usually a thirty foot circle. When i get within 30 feet i just start looking.

[+niraD]

I know it's hard to get coordinates in some circumstances, but I've also seen spot on coords in less than favorable GPS locations.

I found a cache where the owner apologized for the inaccuracy of the coordinates. It was in a beautiful location, but the geography and tree cover limited satellite reception. As far as I could tell, the coordinates were spot on, but my reception wasn't any better than the 50' radius claimed by the cache owner, and ultimately, I used the (very helpful) hint to narrow down my search.

 

But there's a big difference between that and deliberately "soft" coordinates.

[+fizzymagic]

I have one that is slightly "soft" but, if you stand at the GZ area the cache is "in plain site"

Then fix them. Bad coords make for bad geocaches.

[+L0ne.R]

A great thing about this sport is that you can choose which (and whose) caches to chase after. So, choose, and have fun.

 

Some people really feel the need to sweep the area near their home location clean of any caches that come up. I'm not one who feels compelled but many do, and I totally understand it.

 

I actually appreciate those types of finders, especially those in my area who give constructive honest feedback in the logs. A good CO will learn from the feedback and it helps weed out the local bad caches so I don't end up wasting my time.