Epping Forest Cache Placement

[+ForsdykeFinders]

As an Epping Forest local I was approached by another cacher who was trying to place a cache in the woods. Many of mine and others caches have been inplace for some time but new ones are apparently being rejected because Epping Forest is 'a SSSI'. Clearly this is wrong. As far as I am concerned the area is common land and no permission is needed.

 

Does somebody know otherwise??

[+paulbarratt]

I've had a quick look at the Magic map that the reviewers use and part of Epping Forest is an SSSI

 

Magic Map

 

I can see 2 caches in that area on Google Earth and can only assume that they have permission.

 

SSSI doesn't mean that no caches can be placed there. It's just a matter of gaining appropriate permission and showing this to the reviewer.

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Thanks for that...seems there are more sensitive areas than I though.

[+Graculus]

That MAGIC map link is very useful. If you go to my resource site you'll find more information on MAGIC and other maps that we use when reviewing caches and an explanation of those locations where permission is required.

 

If you have the coordinates of where you are thinking of placing a cache you can quickly and easily check - and if you are just planning a cache from maps and want to know how to get the coordinates - I've explained how to do that too!

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

Edited August 27, 2010 by Graculus

[+keehotee]

Thanks for that...seems there are more sensitive areas than I though.

 

There doesn't have to be anything sensitive about an SSSI

 

Woodbury Common in Devon's an SSSI - doesn't stop the marines throwing bombs and bullets at each other all over it - and it's got some of the best mountain biking in East Devon. But you'll need permission to do anything as destructive as hiding a placcy box on it

Just because a place is of special interest doesn't mean it's fragile!!

[The Bee Keeper]

A large portion of Epping Forest is an SSSI. Two thirds apparently http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation.../Epping_Forest/ . It does not mean you can not place a cache, but you will need to provide details of permission.

 

I have sent back quite a few caches since starting to review Epping Forest. They never seem to come back with details of permission. I have no idea if they have had no joy from the Corporation of London or they just could not be bothered and did not try.

 

If someone would like to try and get an agreement set up and we can then add the details to the GAGB database. The forest is certainly a lovely place and ideal for quite a few geocaches. It just needs someone to start the ball rolling.

 

Just because an area is 'common land' does not mean the land is not owned and therefore allows people to do as they please on it. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommuni...ent/DG_10026177

[+Geocass&Andy750x]

I always wondered why Epping forest wasn't swarming with caches! Now I know I wonder if "Hangman's Hill" (the "hill" where you park your car at the bottom and take the handbreak off. It mysteriously rolls up the hill.) in High Beech counts as SSSI land as it's quite close/possibly in the forest. I always thought placing a cache there would be cool as it's a spooky spot. I'll have to check that out!

 

I suppose the real problem with caching in Epping Foreat though is you may stumble upon some of the dead bodies of ex-Eastenders characters!!!

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Will have to check out Hangmans Hilll....woooooooo

 

I am going to write to the City of London who run the Forest to see if we can get some kind of permission agreed. At the end of the day the SSSI areas are not physically marked and anyone can trample all over them. What harm can a plastic box do......

[The Bee Keeper]

Will have to check out Hangmans Hilll....woooooooo

 

I am going to write to the City of London who run the Forest to see if we can get some kind of permission agreed. At the end of the day the SSSI areas are not physically marked and anyone can trample all over them. What harm can a plastic box do......

 

Good luck with that, hopefully it will be successful. If you can keep people updated as to what happens. We can also update the GAGB Landowner Database accordingly. Hopefully we can give them the big green tick with some of the other organisations that have seen how useful geocaching can be. http://www.gagb.co.uk/gagb/glad/index.php

[+bootsie&thebear]

Will have to check out Hangmans Hilll....woooooooo

 

I am going to write to the City of London who run the Forest to see if we can get some kind of permission agreed. At the end of the day the SSSI areas are not physically marked and anyone can trample all over them. What harm can a plastic box do......

 

Hiya ForsdykeFinders!

 

Have you had any luck with your City of London request? We are eagerly waiting to place a cache in Knighton Woods! Let us know if we can be of any assistance.

 

Bootsie & The Bear

Edited September 18, 2010 by bootsie&thebear

[+bootsie&thebear]

Will have to check out Hangmans Hilll....woooooooo

 

I am going to write to the City of London who run the Forest to see if we can get some kind of permission agreed. At the end of the day the SSSI areas are not physically marked and anyone can trample all over them. What harm can a plastic box do......

 

Hiya ForsdykeFinders!

 

Have you had any luck with your City of London request? We are eagerly waiting to place a cache in Knighton Woods! Let us know if we can be of any assistance.

 

Bootsie & The Bear

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Hi All and thanks for the offers of help.

I have received a reply from the City Of London who manage the forest which isnt great. Infact it says they dont encourage it as quote..'We are aware of this activity taking place but have never given any formal permission and is something we would not encourage. Epping Forest is a very busy site and as you point out much of it is SSSI/SAC for its sensitive habitats. Pastimes like geocaching encourage people to 'stray' off the beaten track, causing disturbance to flora and fauna'.

Clearly they are not fans of Geocaching...GCGB have also replied and they have suggested linking up with a Ranger and showing him what is involved. I dont really have time to do this and think probably the best approach is to just avoid the SSSIs as per magic map.

Caches have been placed in Knighton Woods before (one is very much off the beaten track!) so I would just submit it.

[+sssss]

 

Caches have been placed in Knighton Woods before (one is very much off the beaten track!) so I would just submit it.

 

Just do not forget

Please make sure to obtain permission from the landowner or land manager.

from the knowledge books.

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?p....page&id=78

[+bootsie&thebear]

 

Caches have been placed in Knighton Woods before (one is very much off the beaten track!) so I would just submit it.

 

We have submitted it, but the reviewer said we'll require the permission of the SSSI. I guess we're out of luck for now. Thanks for trying, Forsdykes!

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Hiya, take a look on Magic map (link in porevious posting). Much of Knighton Woods is not SSSI. What is the co-ord of where you are planning to place it?

[Deceangi]

Hiya, take a look on Magic map (link in porevious posting). Much of Knighton Woods is not SSSI. What is the co-ord of where you are planning to place it?

 

The area named as Knighton woods on MAGIC aka Lords Bushes is completely Designated as a SSSI. And the Land is owned and managed by the Corporation of London, who in formed you that they would not be giving Permission for caches on the parts of the Forest that they and manage.

 

Post 12

 

Caches in SSSI's require Proof of Permission to Publish. Older caches already in the area, are considered Grandfathered In. Unless the Owner updates the Coordinates. At which time the Grandfathered In clause, is considered to be broken.

 

Deci

[+ForsdykeFinders]

I cant seem to display the various colours on the map at the moment but will check later. On mine I am sure there were some areas that are SSSI but the vast majority are not designated in Knighton Woods.

I am slightly frustrated with the whole approval process now. I approached the City of London and although they were not keen, they have not said they would refuse permission. You are talking about vast areas of woodland trampled by people, bikes and horses regularly. I guess I have now shot myself in the foot by approaching them and getting their views...fantastic! It amazes me that they are bothered about a few carefully placed plastic containers. Maybe they should focus on flytipping and burnt out cars first.

There are massive areas of Epping Forest that are not SSSI. Surely these can be used for cacches. For people who live round here, refusing all caches in the woods is going to be extremely restrictive.

[+sssss]

I would have doubted that it would have been easy process. After all you are dealing with a huge corporation where no is an easy answer to give. I would say do not give up until they ask you to leave them alone.

 

I will say that as frustrating as it is, having a cache set with permission from the land owner gives a far greater satisfaction than one without.

 

When caches get discovered without permission by land owners it is the GAGB and reviewers that have to deal with the initial repercussions. This is not a pleasant experience nor is it very favourable for geocaching in general. Even being a geocacher I would have quite a sense of humour failure over a cache on my land without me knowing about it. Not that I have a huge amount of land but I am sure someone could squeeze a 35mm film pot in a window basket.

 

Anyhow, back on topic. You mention they said "Pastimes like geocaching encourage people to 'stray' off the beaten track, causing disturbance to flora and fauna'." This is something that with an official agreement would stop as placement would be done in conjunction with the Corporation. So that excuse can be argued. Likewise plenty of organisations that have similar land responsibilities have agreements in place that ultimately benefit both parties.

 

I do not know who you contacted about caching but I would have thought there are plenty of avenues to try. I have had a look on their website and you have the epping forest superintendent, the directorate manager, the newly appointed epping forest community liaison officer, Chairman of the Epping Forest

and Commons Committee and even the city of london mayor?

 

Just a brief look at the annual report there are some things there that can be used, such as

 

We have identified that to ensure the long term future of our

Open Spaces, we need to engage more with the communities

that should or could use our services. Developing our

services to provide opportunities for young people and other

under-represented groups to experience our Open Spaces

is a priority.

 

They mention that

"The Department has also developed partnership

arrangements with Natural England, the Forestry Commission,"

As there are numerous geocaching agreements with the forestry commission that may be another thing to bring up.

 

One of their strategic aims is

 

"Promote opportunities to use and enjoy the outdoor

environment for recreation, health, learning and inclusion

and ensure the value of the Open Spaces is recognised."

 

I am sure there is plenty of other bits in their annual report that can be used to justify geocaching being approved and meeting their own plans, aims and objectives.

 

Another approach my be to start with some CITO events with their rangers to get them onside?

 

There are quite a few geocachers in the Epping area who would look at setting caches, maybe you could get together and have a joint approach at the Corporation ? It may be easier than trying the next step by yourself.

 

But the more official agreements in place has to be for the benefit of caching in the UK in general.

Edited September 26, 2010 by sssss

[+ForsdykeFinders]

Thanks for the advice. The wife had another brainwave to possibly involve Michelle (SXPARCS) who is the official Essex CC Geocaching person. She may have some influence here or can at least demonstrate it isnt all bad.

I will give this a go and will make a note of the contacts you have suggested.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Worth considering...

GAGB and the New Forest, where the New Forest have a maximum number of caches allowed in the area.

(So long as the maximum isn't 1)

 

Over in the US certain National Parks require cachers to get a (free) permit to place a cache, and after a set time (1 or 2 years) have to remove -or move and get a new permit- the cache.

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

In the days when I lived and worked on the edge of the forest we had a great working relationship with some of the Forest Rangers - might be worth contacting the one for the area in question.

[+Happy Humphrey]

Anyhow, back on topic. You mention they said "Pastimes like geocaching encourage people to 'stray' off the beaten track, causing disturbance to flora and fauna'." This is something that with an official agreement would stop as placement would be done in conjunction with the Corporation. So that excuse can be argued. Likewise plenty of organisations that have similar land responsibilities have agreements in place that ultimately benefit both parties.

I don't know why, but it seems to me that the Corporation has a warped view of what geocaching is about; hence all the difficulties.

If only a cacher could actually take someone in authority to the site of a geocache and explain exactly what happens, I feel sure that an agreement could be reached. This has happened elsewhere, with great success. As far as I can see, they are not open-minded about the pastime having got the wrong impression somewhere along the line, and are proving difficult to budge from this unreasonable stance.

[+T.R.a.M.P.]

In the days when I lived and worked on the edge of the forest we had a great working relationship with some of the Forest Rangers - might be worth contacting the one for the area in question.

 

Actually meeting someone on site is by far the best approach. I tried on and off for several months to get some reply from the local council until I met one of the rangers on one of their community events.

Contact was made and we soon met to discuss a couple of caches in a local SSSI that they managed. One cache is now live and the other is in the queue.

The ranger even suggested another local nature reserve and I will be placing a cache or two there as well.

So don't give up and try to actually meet someone in person.

Cheers,

Trevor

[+Geocass&Andy750x]

Pastimes like geocaching encourage people to 'stray' off the beaten track, causing disturbance to flora and fauna'.

 

I've read between the lines... The *real* reason is that they don't want us to stumble upon the bodies of all the ex-eastenders characters buried there!

[+Bear and Ragged]

I've read between the lines... The *real* reason is that they don't want us to stumble upon the bodies of all the ex-eastenders characters buried there!

 

As most bodies are found by "A person walking their dog"

Don't 'Walk the dog' less chance of finding a body!