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mjholley

Ontario Visit

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I always find it interesting there is so much complaining about the requirement of passports and/or EDLs (which at least in Ontario, cost more than a standard Driver's Licence). The cost of a Canadian passport is roughly the same as the cost of two tanks of gas in a typical Canadian household's vehicle. A passport is a handy thing to have if you travel a lot.

 

When factored in to the overall cost of a typical trip, it's insignificant. I'm not talking about people visiting who live in Buffalo - let's face it, most of the people who live within daytrip distance of Ontario have been here if they at all care to visit. I'm talking about the people visiting Geo-Woodstock from places like Florida, or Colorado. It's pretty tempting to hop over the border while visiting the event, especially if you're a statistics type cacher. I'm pretty sure there will be a good chunk of the GWS visitors heading to Niagara Falls since it's a whopping 2 1/2 - 3 hour drive from the event. Once you're there, Ontario is just across the river. Some people visiting from the Midwest will cross at Windsor, cache across Ontario to Niagara then drop down to Alleghany. It's not a large diversion in the routing.

 

Same as if I was visiting Las Vegas, I'd want to drive out to Death Valley and/or the Grand Canyon while I was there. Oh wait, I did that when I was there.

 

The Falls IS a tourist draw, (or Clifton Hill would have been boarded up years ago.... pretty sure the locals aren't going there)

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Nevertheless, passports aren't necessarily required to visit any country in the world

 

huh? please name one

 

travel between USA and Canada were excluded from my comment

 

 

this is getting highly off topic now anyways

Edited by t4e

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and why would a passport requirement be a deterrent?

 

a passport is required to visit any country in this world.

 

can be a lot worse trying to visit USA from here, especially for someone that is a national of any other country, you need to give fingerprints and pay to have them taken too :blink:

 

There is very low passport ownership in the United States.

 

I found it a bit of a hassle to get a passport. $85, plus waiting in line, and then waiting to get it.

 

Even the EDL, which we're lucky to have in Ontario, is a bit of a hassle. It requires an interview, and an additional fee.

 

Also, there are some people who are simply ineligible to get passports.

 

Now it's not true that every country requires a passport. Whether or not you need a passport to enter a country depends on where you're from and where you're going.

 

There are a few Caribbean countries, like Grenada and Jamaica, that don't require a passport from Canadian travellers. Bermuda doesn't require passport for Canadians on short visits. Now, it might be tricky to get to those countries from Canada without a passport, because there's a good chance you'll have to go through the United States or somewhere else that does require a passport. And many airlines require passports for any international flights.

 

Anyway, back on topic, if I was an American with a family of four without valid passports, I probably wouldn't bother getting them just so I could skip over to Niagara Falls to grab a geocache.

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I always find it interesting there is so much complaining about the requirement of passports and/or EDLs (which at least in Ontario, cost more than a standard Driver's Licence). The cost of a Canadian passport is roughly the same as the cost of two tanks of gas in a typical Canadian household's vehicle. A passport is a handy thing to have if you travel a lot.

 

When factored in to the overall cost of a typical trip, it's insignificant. I'm not talking about people visiting who live in Buffalo - let's face it, most of the people who live within daytrip distance of Ontario have been here if they at all care to visit. I'm talking about the people visiting Geo-Woodstock from places like Florida, or Colorado. It's pretty tempting to hop over the border while visiting the event, especially if you're a statistics type cacher. I'm pretty sure there will be a good chunk of the GWS visitors heading to Niagara Falls since it's a whopping 2 1/2 - 3 hour drive from the event. Once you're there, Ontario is just across the river. Some people visiting from the Midwest will cross at Windsor, cache across Ontario to Niagara then drop down to Alleghany. It's not a large diversion in the routing.

 

Same as if I was visiting Las Vegas, I'd want to drive out to Death Valley and/or the Grand Canyon while I was there. Oh wait, I did that when I was there.

 

The Falls IS a tourist draw, (or Clifton Hill would have been boarded up years ago.... pretty sure the locals aren't going there)

 

I agree in theory, but I'm sure there will also be cachers who opt NOT to come into Canada because it's annoying to get a passport.

 

I agree that passports are great to have, and worth the cost, etc., but it's a small hurdle that does turn some people off, or that some people won't think to do in time for their trip, etc.

 

And then there are the people who just can't cross the border, because of criminal records.

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I found it a bit of a hassle to get a passport. $85, plus waiting in line, and then waiting to get it.

 

i applied for it on a monday, waited 10 minutes in line, and received it by friday

the cost indeed is quite high compared to other countries, especially when you consider the fact that ours here is good for 5 years as opposed to 10 in most other countries

 

Now it's not true that every country requires a passport. Whether or not you need a passport to enter a country depends on where you're from and where you're going.

 

you are confusing visa requirement with passport requirement

its true that as Canadians we do not need a visa for most countries, passport however is always required with minimum 6 months left to expiry, with the exception of Jamaica lol

 

There are a few Caribbean countries, like Grenada and Jamaica, that don't require a passport from Canadian travellers. Bermuda doesn't require passport for Canadians on short visits.

 

Grenada and Bermuda require ALL visitors to have a valid passport to enter , but don't require a visa

 

Jamaica is a different story, expired passports of up to one year are accepted :blink:

 

personally even if the country i plan to visit did not require a passport i would still carry mine, it is the best form of proving my identity and citizenship

we drove to NY last year even before the passport requirement was in place, and what do you know they asked for passport

 

i guess if one doesn't plan on getting out of the country there really is no need for a passport

 

as for those not allowed to cross the border, i read somewhere that someone with a DUI conviction is deemed unacceptable to enter Canada, i haven't checked the validity of such claim though

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i applied for it on a monday, waited 10 minutes in line, and received it by friday

the cost indeed is quite high compared to other countries, especially when you consider the fact that ours here is good for 5 years as opposed to 10 in most other countries

 

I waited for an hour in line when I was applying.

 

Many Canadians don't have the option to apply in person without travelling some distance to a passport office.

 

 

you are confusing visa requirement with passport requirement

its true that as Canadians we do not need a visa for most countries, passport however is always required with minimum 6 months left to expiry, with the exception of Jamaica lol

 

 

The last time I looked into visiting my friend who's in veterinary school in Grenada, the passport wasn't necessary to enter Grenada. It was necessary to get there because I had to go through the United States. Same story when my friends were married in Jamaica earlier this year.

 

personally even if the country i plan to visit did not require a passport i would still carry mine, it is the best form of proving my identity and citizenship

we drove to NY last year even before the passport requirement was in place, and what do you know they asked for passport

 

i guess if one doesn't plan on getting out of the country there really is no need for a passport

 

as for those not allowed to cross the border, i read somewhere that someone with a DUI conviction is deemed unacceptable to enter Canada, i haven't checked the validity of such claim though

 

I agree that a passport is a good thing to have, but it's still something you need to apply for, pay for, and wait for. There's a reason the Canadian government fought with the US government over their new border crossing requirements. Passport ownership in the United States is low, and the new rules are affecting tourism across Canada.

 

You can be denied entry to Canada if you have ANY criminal conviction on your record. After your sentence and any parole or probation is finished, you can apply to be considered "rehabilitated" so you can enter Canada. The United States has similar restrictions, and in Canada you can apply for a pardon after a certain amount of time has elapsed. Good that the second chance is an option, but more hurdles for potential cross-border tourists.

 

Now look up some stats about the rate of criminal convictions in Canada and the US to get a sense of how many people might be affected by these restrictions... it's probably more than you'd guess.

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You can submit a Passport application at your local post office. Much quicker, and just as effective as going to a passport office

 

Then you have to mail in your supporting documents. I wasn't comfortable doing that. And if there's anything wrong with your photos or documents, you have to wait longer.

 

I have no idea what it's like to get a passport in the US.

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You can submit a Passport application at your local post office. Much quicker, and just as effective as going to a passport office

 

Then you have to mail in your supporting documents. I wasn't comfortable doing that. And if there's anything wrong with your photos or documents, you have to wait longer.

 

I have no idea what it's like to get a passport in the US.

 

Perhaps you could start a new topic called "Getting A Passport" (Click on New Topic button in top right) and return this hikacked thread to the OP.

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You can submit a Passport application at your local post office. Much quicker, and just as effective as going to a passport office

 

Then you have to mail in your supporting documents. I wasn't comfortable doing that. And if there's anything wrong with your photos or documents, you have to wait longer.

 

I have no idea what it's like to get a passport in the US.

 

Perhaps you could start a new topic called "Getting A Passport" (Click on New Topic button in top right) and return this hikacked thread to the OP.

 

For the record, this is the OP:

 

I am from IL and want to visit Canada next April and do some caching.

Can anyone recommend a hotel?

 

I hear there's a nice Motel 6 in Sarnia. <_<

 

I really have to comment about the EDL's in America though. And I'll say it's on-topic, because the OP can't get one, being from Illinois. I have one, but was shocked to hear you can only get them in NY, Michigan, Vermont and Washington State. If you're from one of the other 46 States, you're out of luck. In NY, I had to come up with boatloads of documentation paperwork, and fill out an application, but there was no interview of any sort. I'm good for Canada, Mexico, and "the Caribean".

 

Of course that doesn't include Cuba, which I'd never be allowed to go to, but you Canadians can go to town on that one. :anibad:

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By the way, I have the Narcissa quote in my signature because I was in another thread in Geocaching topics, and noticed two different people had Narcissa quotes in their signature, so I jumped on board. I promise to come up with a better quote. <_<

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By the way, I have the Narcissa quote in my signature because I was in another thread in Geocaching topics, and noticed two different people had Narcissa quotes in their signature, so I jumped on board. I promise to come up with a better quote. :anibad:

the really cool people quote themselves in their signature <_<

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You can submit a Passport application at your local post office. Much quicker, and just as effective as going to a passport office

 

Then you have to mail in your supporting documents. I wasn't comfortable doing that. And if there's anything wrong with your photos or documents, you have to wait longer.

 

No, you don't. They CHECK your ID at the Post Office, and hand it back to you - just like going to the Passport office. They added that service a couple years ago and I've used it twice now. Sure beats driving an hour (there and back) to Brampton to stand in line when there's a Post Office 600 metres from my door.

 

----

 

Now, back to touring Ontario - here's some photos I took last week in Windsor and Point Pelee (just a half hour from Windsor). I've got lots more, but these are the ones I've post-processed so far.

 

Point Pelee National Park:

5012457244_88fd812253.jpg

 

The Ambassador Bridge

5012007459_7caa23803d.jpg

 

From the Odette Sculpture Park, on the Windsor side of the river....

5012026037_d1f084d3a1.jpg

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You realize that the next time I go to Windsor against my will to visit Taoiseach's folks, I'm going to go out of my way to take pictures of how gross it is. Indian Road, here I come.

 

Point Pelee is very nice, but it's much closer to Leamington than Windsor. Leamington's not gross, except for the ketchup smell. And I like Mennonites.

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Not sure what part but I am going to come up thru Michigan cross the pond in to Canada and start my Geocaching right there at GCQ50V and work my way North. The holtel doesn't have to be 4 star place but I don't want to spend an arm and a leg. 80 to 100 dollars a night would be a good price.

 

The drive between Sault Ste. Marie and Wawa is gorgeous this time of year. If you happen to stay overnight in Wawa area, let me know. I used to live there and you can get some good rates for rooms at this time of year there and the food at some of the locally owned restaurants there are to die for!

 

I've been dying to get back up there and try and find Camp Jigami cache. It took a year for someone to finally FTF it.

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You realize that the next time I go to Windsor against my will to visit Taoiseach's folks, I'm going to go out of my way to take pictures of how gross it is. Indian Road, here I come.

 

 

Any town, any where, will have "gross" areas so what would be the point in posting pictures like that?

Edited by brendah

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Any town, any where, will have a "gross" areas so what would be the point in posting pictures like that?

the point would be to prove that she's right. or an attempt at doing that. :)

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You realize that the next time I go to Windsor against my will to visit Taoiseach's folks, I'm going to go out of my way to take pictures of how gross it is. Indian Road, here I come.

 

 

please spare us the "pleasure", i don't think anyone cares for them

 

would be more constructive to concentrate your efforts on finding nice places and take pictures

 

i seriously don't get what your point is with the dissing of those towns

 

i would think that any proud Canadian would want other people to come visit this beautiful country and point out all the amazing places instead of going out of their way to make a point of the weaker areas

 

like brendah pointed out, "gross" areas exist in any town, the thing is they are not in the areas that a tourist will go to

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You realize that the next time I go to Windsor against my will to visit Taoiseach's folks, I'm going to go out of my way to take pictures of how gross it is. Indian Road, here I come.

 

 

Any town, any where, will have "gross" areas so what would be the point in posting pictures like that?

 

The point would be that I'm kidding.

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You realize that the next time I go to Windsor against my will to visit Taoiseach's folks, I'm going to go out of my way to take pictures of how gross it is. Indian Road, here I come.

 

 

Any town, any where, will have "gross" areas so what would be the point in posting pictures like that?

 

The point would be that I'm kidding.

 

Hard to tell that you are kidding when there is nothing to indicate you are. :)

Edited by brendah

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You realize that the next time I go to Windsor against my will to visit Taoiseach's folks, I'm going to go out of my way to take pictures of how gross it is. Indian Road, here I come.
Any town, any where, will have "gross" areas so what would be the point in posting pictures like that?
The point would be that I'm kidding.
Hard to tell that you are kidding when there is nothing to indicat you are. :)

... and easy to say that one was kidding after having been proven wrong.

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please spare us the "pleasure", i don't think anyone cares for them

 

would be more constructive to concentrate your efforts on finding nice places and take pictures

 

i seriously don't get what your point is with the dissing of those towns

 

i would think that any proud Canadian would want other people to come visit this beautiful country and point out all the amazing places instead of going out of their way to make a point of the weaker areas

 

like brendah pointed out, "gross" areas exist in any town, the thing is they are not in the areas that a tourist will go to

 

I don't really buy into aimless nationalism. Canada has strong points and weak points, just like every other country. Windsor and Sarnia are weak points, because they're gross.

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You realize that the next time I go to Windsor against my will to visit Taoiseach's folks, I'm going to go out of my way to take pictures of how gross it is. Indian Road, here I come.
Any town, any where, will have "gross" areas so what would be the point in posting pictures like that?
The point would be that I'm kidding.
Hard to tell that you are kidding when there is nothing to indicat you are. :)

... and easy to say that one was kidding after having been proven wrong.

 

How can a subjective opinion be wrong?

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You realize that the next time I go to Windsor against my will to visit Taoiseach's folks, I'm going to go out of my way to take pictures of how gross it is. Indian Road, here I come.

 

 

Any town, any where, will have "gross" areas so what would be the point in posting pictures like that?

 

The point would be that I'm kidding.

 

Hard to tell that you are kidding when there is nothing to indicate you are. :)

 

Sorry for not punctuating my sentences with "lol."

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Speaking as someone who grew up in Windsor and has been to Sarnia many times, they are gross. Sarnia is mostly gross because it's really industrial. It's not a place that I would recommend as a tourist destination. Windsor isn't either. Between the smog and the general griminess, Windsor is not nice.

 

You can point out the handful of pretty spots just about anywhere, but the truth is that the river front, Jackson Park and Willistead Manor and the old Sandwich Town Hall are about the only places in Windsor that I actually find pretty. A couple of parks, a couple of buildings and a sculpture garden aren't really a reason to make Windsor a tourist destination. On the whole, the push factors far outweigh the pull for Windsor tourism. Windsor is just an industrial city. It's not exciting and it is rather dangerous, unless you're in one of the suburbs like South Windsor, or out of Windsor proper in the towns of Tecumseh or Lasalle. Windsor doesn't boast any interesting architecture, other than maybe the Ambassador Bridge or the two buildings listed above (unless of course, you're Ernie Lamont and simply love the blue-glass building near Ouellette & Eugenie). Windsor is generally boring, there are few interesting attractions, no museums of any real consequence (the woodcarving museum at the library isn't bad... I guess... find my cache while you're there, though!), and if you want to find these things anywhere you have to go out into the county.

 

Neither Narcissa nor myself ever knocked Essex County, where there actually are things to do. John R. Park Homestead is nice, and there are several pretty conservation areas in addition to Point Pelee. Once you get out of Windsor, the area doesn't completely suck, but Windsor certainly does!

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I don't really buy into aimless nationalism. Canada has strong points and weak points, just like every other country. Windsor and Sarnia are weak points, because they're gross.

 

that's fine, however repeating something 10 times serves no purpose really

we all got your point after the first couple of replies

its not what ones says but how they say it that makes all the difference

 

i happen to hail from a country that is quite undesirable to live in, however as a tourist attraction is absolutely beautiful, there is everything you could wish to experience when visiting a place

i have been asked many times by potential visitors what my opinion is and i always chose to point out the many unique experiences available and at the same time the things/places to avoid but that in a more diplomatic way than just referring to them as "gross"

 

 

How can a subjective opinion be wrong?

 

its your opinion only, so while you may feel is subjective it can certainly be wrong

 

not one single person in this thread, except the one in your household, has agreed with your opinion so i say the majority rules and has proven you are wrong

 

not to be confused with the fact that you are free to think whatever you wish as long as you don't impose it on the rest of us that disagree

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its your opinion only, so while you may feel is subjective it can certainly be wrong

 

not one single person in this thread, except the one in your household, has agreed with your opinion so i say the majority rules and has proven you are wrong

 

not to be confused with the fact that you are free to think whatever you wish as long as you don't impose it on the rest of us that disagree

 

Comedy gold. :)

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not one single person in this thread, except the one in your household, has agreed with your opinion so i say the majority rules and has proven you are wrong

 

I'm definitely the most familiar with Windsor amongst the handful of people here.

 

If you have to go to Windsor for a conference or something, it certainly is possible to make the best of it. The point remains that Windsor is not a pleasant city to be in, and I would not recommend it as a tourist destination. More than anything, Windsor's problem as a tourist destination is that there's very little in the way of attractions. Couple that with the fact that Windsor is gross in many ways - pollution, litter and hideous infrastructure not being the least of the problems - and Windsor becomes a very unpleasant experience.

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A couple of parks, a couple of buildings and a sculpture garden aren't really a reason to make Windsor a tourist destination. On the whole, the push factors far outweigh the pull for Windsor tourism. Windsor is just an industrial city. It's not exciting and it is rather dangerous, unless you're in one of the suburbs like South Windsor, or out of Windsor proper in the towns of Tecumseh or Lasalle. Windsor doesn't boast any interesting architecture, other than maybe the Ambassador Bridge or the two buildings listed above (unless of course, you're Ernie Lamont and simply love the blue-glass building near Ouellette & Eugenie).

 

 

Just to be clear here, I'm not promoting the City of Windsor as a tourist destination vs the likes of Toronto, Ottawa, or Ville de Quebec.

 

Windsor is, however quite worthy of a daytrip, or a spot to pass through as you tour Ontario. I'd like to go back and check out the nearby Fort in Amherstburg. I've daytripped to Windsor from Chatham to visit the Casino - even though I won't gamble they do have a great restaurant in the lower level of the place. I'll maintain in over 35 years of visiting Windsor, I have yet to be shot at, mugged or even so much as given a dirty look by the locals. The "pollution" is on par with Toronto so I don't notice it when I'm there. But this "pollution" is insignificant compared to other world tourist destinations like Mexico City or Rome, Italy.

 

I posted photos to demonstrate that the casual tourist may find something interesting as they travel through Windsor - not to suggest it would be a competitor to Muskoka as a summer tourist destination.

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its your opinion only, so while you may feel is subjective it can certainly be wrong

 

not one single person in this thread, except the one in your household, has agreed with your opinion so i say the majority rules and has proven you are wrong

 

not to be confused with the fact that you are free to think whatever you wish as long as you don't impose it on the rest of us that disagree

 

Comedy gold. :)

 

extremely intelligent reply, must be due to some highly academic membership

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extremely intelligent reply, must be due to some highly academic membership

 

Yes, I was amused by your assertion because I have a highly academic membership. :):laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::cool:

Edited by narcissa

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I'm definitely the most familiar with Windsor amongst the handful of people here.

 

If you have to go to Windsor for a conference or something, it certainly is possible to make the best of it. The point remains that Windsor is not a pleasant city to be in, and I would not recommend it as a tourist destination. More than anything, Windsor's problem as a tourist destination is that there's very little in the way of attractions. Couple that with the fact that Windsor is gross in many ways - pollution, litter and hideous infrastructure not being the least of the problems - and Windsor becomes a very unpleasant experience.

 

i never argued that Windsor is a tourist attraction

 

what i was getting at is that there are better ways to tell someone that a place is not too desirable to be visited than just calling it gross...i bolded your reply because that is a diplomatic way of giving someone advice

 

thank you

Edited by t4e

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How can a subjective opinion be wrong?

ask yourself. you're the one who tried to prove people wrong continuously. had you realized that it was all subjective, you'd never have started arguing and would've stopped posting days ago. but no, you insist that you have to be right. subjective? try again.

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extremely intelligent reply, must be due to some highly academic membership

 

Yes, I was amused by your assertion because I have a highly academic membership. :):laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::cool:

 

good for you, although sometimes i really have to wonder because an academic person would have more tact and diplomacy

 

in any case this is one more subject that goes beyond the scope of this thread

Edited by t4e

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How can a subjective opinion be wrong?

ask yourself. you're the one who tried to prove people wrong continuously. had you realized that it was all subjective, you'd never have started arguing and would've stopped posting days ago. but no, you insist that you have to be right. subjective? try again.

 

But I have fun arguing about how gross Windsor is. And gross it is.

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good for you, although sometimes i really have to wonder because an academic person would have more tact and diplomacy

 

in any case this is one more subject that goes beyond the scope of this thread

 

I'm lucky. My special academic membership entitles me to speak without tact or diplomacy. It's kind of like a Costco membership, but it's academic.

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How can a subjective opinion be wrong?

ask yourself. you're the one who tried to prove people wrong continuously. had you realized that it was all subjective, you'd never have started arguing and would've stopped posting days ago. but no, you insist that you have to be right. subjective? try again.

But I have fun arguing about how gross Windsor is. And gross it is.

too bad you lost that argument long time ago.

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How can a subjective opinion be wrong?

ask yourself. you're the one who tried to prove people wrong continuously. had you realized that it was all subjective, you'd never have started arguing and would've stopped posting days ago. but no, you insist that you have to be right. subjective? try again.

But I have fun arguing about how gross Windsor is. And gross it is.

too bad you lost that argument long time ago.

 

No, I'm still very convinced that Windsor is gross.

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How can a subjective opinion be wrong?

ask yourself. you're the one who tried to prove people wrong continuously. had you realized that it was all subjective, you'd never have started arguing and would've stopped posting days ago. but no, you insist that you have to be right. subjective? try again.

But I have fun arguing about how gross Windsor is. And gross it is.

too bad you lost that argument long time ago.

No, I'm still very convinced that Windsor is gross.

while nobody else is. QED.

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How can a subjective opinion be wrong?

ask yourself. you're the one who tried to prove people wrong continuously. had you realized that it was all subjective, you'd never have started arguing and would've stopped posting days ago. but no, you insist that you have to be right. subjective? try again.

But I have fun arguing about how gross Windsor is. And gross it is.

too bad you lost that argument long time ago.

 

Once again... Native Windsorite here... I fled because Windsor is gross

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while nobody else is. QED.

 

That's okay. Just remember that I gave everybody fair warning, so I don't want to hear any complaints after the fact.

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Once again... Native Windsorite here... I fled because Windsor is gross

no, because you think it's gross (if that's even true). that's not an argument.

Edited by dfx

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Once again... Native Windsorite here... I fled because Windsor is gross

no, because you think it's gross (if that's even true). that's not an argument.

 

Yay for the Cancer Capital of Canada!

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Once again... Native Windsorite here... I fled because Windsor is gross

no, because you think it's gross (if that's even true). that's not an argument.

 

Yay for the Cancer Capital of Canada!

 

Is it really? I would have guessed Elliot Lake.

 

Didn't Windsor get named the Smog Capital of Canada?

 

So awesome.

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i'm sure you two have each other's phone numbers. continue the mindless bashing there please and spare the rest of us. kthx.

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i'm sure you two have each other's phone numbers. continue the mindless bashing there please and spare the rest of us. kthx.

 

I need only to turn my head ~90 degrees to the left, and believe me, we don't need to try to convince each other that Windsor isn't exactly a desirable place to visit.

 

Nevertheless, our last two posts nicely add evidence that Windsor is in fact gross, whereas you have not provided any evidence to the contrary, other than that you feel that a native Windsorite's assessment of his hometown (which he left at his first opportunity to do so) is not valid.

 

There are three groups of people in Windsor. Those who hate it and leave, those who love it for no apparent reason other than that it's the only thing they know, and those who sit and complain about it but never leave. Believe me, there are many Windsorites who won't drink the Windsor Kool-Aid and see it for what it is - a dirty, grimy little hole in our otherwise lovely province.

 

My opinion on my hometown is anything but mindless - it is, in fact, quite informed.

Edited by Taoiseach

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I need only to turn my head ~90 degrees to the left, and believe me, we don't need to try to convince each other that Windsor isn't exactly a desirable place to visit.

great! so why don't you just keep it to yourself?

 

... evidence ...

you gotta be kidding me.

Edited by dfx

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I need only to turn my head ~90 degrees to the left, and believe me, we don't need to try to convince each other that Windsor isn't exactly a desirable place to visit.

great! so why don't you just keep it to yourself?

 

Are you Eddie Francis or something? Why do you care to defend Windsor so fiercely? If you didn't want this argument to happen, perhaps you and some of the others shouldn't have put up such a fight about how Windsor isn't gross. Explain to me how Windsor isn't gross.

 

The Weather Network named Windsor the Smog Capital of Canada, and is largely considered to be the Cancer Capital of Canada(<- Google that - see what the first result is). How is that not gross? Also, I've explained why Windsor is not a place I would suggest anyone visit.

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great! so why don't you just keep it to yourself?

 

 

That's a pretty absurd demand to make in an internet forum.

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