Bag as cache "container"?

[+tgjamin]

I am not sure where I heard about this.

 

I specifically remember geocaches being placed in VERY dry climates of (Arizona / Utah) and the only part of the cache was a bag and a log to sign. This way the placers could nestle the bag in between two very close rocks and attach a string to the bag to retrieve it.

 

Why I just though of posting this to the forums... I'm not sure.

 

Since this seems to be against the current guidelines ("...consisting of (at a bare minimum) a container and a logbook."), would this have been grandfathered in or does it exist at all?

 

What have you heard about this, or has it been done?

 

Thanks for your feedback.

[+brslk]

A bag is technically a container but still a bad idea. A really bad idea.

[+tgjamin]

A bag is technically a container but still a bad idea. A really bad idea.

 

Why is it such a bad idea? In an area that gets virtually no rain why wouldn't it work?

[+brslk]

A bag is technically a container but still a bad idea. A really bad idea.

 

Why is it such a bad idea? In an area that gets virtually no rain why wouldn't it work?

 

What kind of bag are we talking about here?

[+terratin]

Ha! That's actually an idea i had (have). We've lived in Qatar for a while and throughout the desert there are multiple carwrecks. Placing a cache in a bag on the backseat or something would make a great challange. Unfortunately we moved away, but if/when we go back there it's a cache i'd like to put out. I think it would work very well in such environment.

 

Mr. Terratin

[+BlueDeuce]

What kind of bag are we talking about here?

 

Exactly. Are we talking about a ziplock baggie? Easily torn. Poor sealer from the elements. High and low temps constantly. Dust, Sand. It does snow in Arizona/Utah.

Edited August 26, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[+kunarion]

In an area that gets virtually no rain why wouldn't it work?

It might work. Do you have an excess of plastic bags you need to make into cache containers?

 

There's probably an ideal spot for a plastic bag cache in a desert somewhere (as terratin mentioned, a particular hiding style). So even if it's high-maintenance, but the CO is able to visit frequently, maybe a bag is fine.

 

Deserts are subject to a deluge (even flooding) now and again, so don't count on the “no rain” thing. You'd have to keep a heavy-duty ziplock bag out of the sun, or the plastic will get brittle and disintegrate. And be sure it's protected from being battered around in high winds. Intense desert heat will tax most any container, but I'd bet a good old-fashioned ammo box would do.

 

If it's being slid into a thin space between rocks, you could try a waterproof log sheet clamped between two metal plates. But that might eliminate the bag.

 

I hope you don't feel talked out of the idea. I have a couple of containers that will be perfect somewhere in the known universe (just that I haven't found the places yet). And I found a great hiding spot which would work only if a very special container were built for it. AND I have an idea for a real devious hide, but don't know where or if the structure for the hide exists (still looking). My point is, stay creative.

Edited August 26, 2010 by kunarion

[+Mini-Geek]

You'd have to keep a heavy-duty ziplock bag out of the sun, or the plastic will get brittle and disintegrate. And be sure it's protected from being battered around in high winds. Intense desert heat will tax most any container, but I'd bet a good old-fashioned ammo box would do.

 

I second that.

 

Someone I know bought a log cabin with a greenhouse in the garden, this greenhouse had been lined with bubble wrap, and was full of plastic plant pots. The greenhouse was left unmaintained for who knows how long. When we went to clean out the greenhouse, the bubble wrap (probably equivalent in thickness to a ziplock bag) crumbled into dust with the slightest breeze, and the plastic plant pots (probably equivalent to a lock&lock) were also falling to pieces.

 

This was in Scotland, imagine how much faster that would happen in a desert.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Mini-Geek

[+Cache O'Plenty]

We have a number of "bag" caches here in the dry areas. But, usually, the bag is wrapped with camo tape to create a pocket. The camo tape only adds a small amount of thickness to the bag and greatly increases it's resistance to the elements. The ziplock part of the bag has to be of higher quality or the log will get wet/dust/etc. The cache site has to be protected from the sun and the occasional rains (winter).

[Clan Riffster]

Why is it such a bad idea?

Because baggies are really crappy containers. Although the black & grey film cans are the officially designated poster child for suckyness in caching, they are not really the worst container. That honor goes to baggies. I think a better question would be; 'Why would you want to use such a flimsy container?' Take pride in your hide. The bottom line? It's your hide. Do what you want. If you want seekers to experience soggy, moldy logs, use a crappy container. If you want seekers to experience clean & dry logs, use a sturdy, waterproof container.

 

In an area that gets virtually no rain why wouldn't it work?

Rain is not the only hazard that can effect a scrap of paper.

[+Ecylram]

Rain is not the only hazard that can effect a scrap of paper.

Thin plastic bags are vulnerable to UV Rays, pencils, pens, wind, geocachers, animals, etc.

[+t4e]

there's plenty of cheap containers out there, matchstick tubes come to mind, why would anyone want to use a ziploc only is beyond me

[+kunarion]

Although the black & grey film cans are the officially designated poster child for suckyness in caching, they are not really the worst container. That honor goes to baggies.

You're right. I've found several caches and stages that are just little plastic bags wrapped in duct tape. They're sticky, wet, torn, and dissapointing.

[+power69]

A bag is technically a container but still a bad idea. A really bad idea.

 

Why is it such a bad idea? In an area that gets virtually no rain why wouldn't it work?

UV would attack the plastic. no good even in dry climates.

[+tgjamin]

A bag is technically a container but still a bad idea. A really bad idea.

 

Why is it such a bad idea? In an area that gets virtually no rain why wouldn't it work?

 

What kind of bag are we talking about here?

 

What comes to mind is NOT a cheap off brand sandwich bag. I was thinking more of a Glad or Ziploc double seal freezer bag. They are thick and are very watertight.

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

It rains a lot where I live, gotta hate those wet logs!

 

Don't you think it would be a good idea to stay away from a bare minimum type container?

[+briansnat]

A bag is technically a container but still a bad idea. A really bad idea.

 

Why is it such a bad idea? In an area that gets virtually no rain why wouldn't it work?

 

What kind of bag are we talking about here?

 

What comes to mind is NOT a cheap off brand sandwich bag. I was thinking more of a Glad or Ziploc double seal freezer bag. They are thick and are very watertight.

 

Think of all the caches you've found where there was a logbook inside enclosed in a Ziploc. What percentage of the time was the zipper mechanism still functioning? In my experience it is very small if the cache has been out any length of time. The zipper is not made to withstand repeated openings and closings.

[+BuckeyeClan]

In addition to what everybody else has said...you mentioned attaching a string to it. How would you do that? Poke a hole in the bag? How many tugs until the baggie rips and the string comes off? I really think any type of baggie is a really bad idea.

 

BUT...

 

If you really want to pursue this idea, why not try some type of nylon bag or pouch? Use a logbook made from waterproof paper, and discourage trade items. Even if the bag isn't waterproof, if it'll dry quickly it might be okay. I don't know how long it would last, but it would probably do better than a plastic baggie.

[AZcachemeister]

I think you are referring to a 'Geopouch', which is basically a small ziplock covered with duct-tape.

[+Photographer Jim]

We have a number of "bag" caches here in the dry areas. But, usually, the bag is wrapped with camo tape to create a pocket. The camo tape only adds a small amount of thickness to the bag and greatly increases it's resistance to the elements. The ziplock part of the bag has to be of higher quality or the log will get wet/dust/etc. The cache site has to be protected from the sun and the occasional rains (winter).

 

We have a number of caches like that up hear in NorCal. Usually the bags are the heavy duty pill bags. They are wrapped in camo or duct tape. They are often slipped behind signs on the side of buildings, in cracks in brick walls, sometimes between the post and a stop sign. We get pretty wet winters here, but I have found these generally do a good job. In a dry area, slipped into a crack that keeps the cache out of the sun and wind, it could do just fine.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Photographer Jim

[+Binky del Mar]

We have a number of "bag" caches here in the dry areas. But, usually, the bag is wrapped with camo tape to create a pocket. The camo tape only adds a small amount of thickness to the bag and greatly increases it's resistance to the elements. The ziplock part of the bag has to be of higher quality or the log will get wet/dust/etc. The cache site has to be protected from the sun and the occasional rains (winter).

 

We have a number of caches like that up hear in NorCal. Usually the bags are the heavy duty pill bags. They are wrapped in camo or duct tape. They are often slipped behind signs on the side of buildings, in cracks in brick walls, sometimes between the post and a stop sign. We get pretty wet winters here, but I have found these generally do a good job. In a dry area, slipped into a crack that keeps the cache out of the sun and wind, it could do just fine.

 

Hey Jim!

They make GREAT evil hides. Just depends on how well they are maintained, like ALL caches. I have several made from a small ziplock covered in duct tape and have to change them out every year or so and I live in snow country. Everything gets destroyed after time out in the elements...even ammo cans can rust. Willing to keep up on maintenance is the key.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Binky del Mar

[+power69]

I think you are referring to a 'Geopouch', which is basically a small ziplock covered with duct-tape.

I have a few of those.

one of arizonas most prolific hiders has lots of those

[Clan Riffster]

I was thinking more of a Glad or Ziploc double seal freezer bag. They are thick and are very watertight.

Are you still committed to the idea of using a crappy container? The thickest Ziplock you can buy is still going to suffer, quicly, from the ravages of climate. I guess it comes down to, "what is your end goal?". If your final objective is to spread the joys of wet, moldy logs, you are on the right course.

[+tgjamin]

Just to be clear:

I was wondering if you have heard of this happening. I would NEVER do this since I live in a very wet climate. This was my way of probing the geocaching community.

[Clan Riffster]

I was wondering if you have heard of this happening.

Whew! Brother, you had me worried there for a bit. Sorry I jumped to that conclusion.

To address your question: Yes, I've seen it done. It's always ended in failure.

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

Just to be clear:

I was wondering if you have heard of this happening. I would NEVER do this since I live in a very wet climate. This was my way of probing the geocaching community.

 

Before or after you take them to your mother ship.

[+Ecylram]

Just to be clear:

I was wondering if you have heard of this happening. I would NEVER do this since I live in a very wet climate. This was my way of probing the geocaching community.

 

Before or after you take them to your mother ship.

As long as the probe is in an appropriately sized baggie.

[4wheelin_fool]

What would be interesting is a drop down list of containers to choose from on the Hiding A Cache page to pick what container you used down to the brand name.

 

They could then collect data about the cache, such as the possible time frame before a Needs Maintenence log is posted, and base it on the geographical area. Eventually the program could inform a cache hider before the cache is submitted the likelyhood of being high maintenence.

 

You have selected: Ziplock sandwich bag as an outer cache container. This will require a weekly maintenence plan. Do you wish to continue?

[Clan Riffster]

That sounds like a pretty kewl idea, (albeit a tongue in cheek one), but the results are so predictable as to make it unnecessary. I would much rather see a section of the guidelines dedicated to environmental/social impact, listing types of containers with high fail rates, under the premise that such containers do little to advance the game in a positive light, regardless of location. Naturally, this list would include baggies, black & grey film cans, Altoids tins, cookie tins, hide-a-keys, tackle boxes, lunch boxes, etc.

[4wheelin_fool]

That sounds like a pretty kewl idea, (albeit a tongue in cheek one), but the results are so predictable as to make it unnecessary. I would much rather see a section of the guidelines dedicated to environmental/social impact, listing types of containers with high fail rates, under the premise that such containers do little to advance the game in a positive light, regardless of location. Naturally, this list would include baggies, black & grey film cans, Altoids tins, cookie tins, hide-a-keys, tackle boxes, lunch boxes, etc.

 

There would be cachers who would resist being told what to use, thinking that they know better. If the data was collected from an unbiased source and gave a fail rate average up to a specific day it would be more useful. Altoids tins, cookie tins, tackle boxes, lunch boxes, baggies, could all be weeded out from the very beginning (depeding on climate area)

[4wheelin_fool]

From another (older) thread, I was just reading:

 

Ok I'm sorry. I don't usually vent but............

I found a lamp-post cache today that was in a zipper bag!

Yes a zipper bag, no container just a freaking bag!

Oh! and on top of that someone (other than the cache owner) had replaced the cache log with small legal pad sheets and the first one had a bunch of button glues to it!

There was a cop watching us and after I pulled away, he parked near it and stared at the lamp

for a second or two, then went into the store!

 

I wondered if he was going to look for it, then track me down!

I'm sorry but if a cop sees you pull a plastic baggie out from under a lamp post cover he might think you are making a drug pick up!

 

AAAAAAAAH got that of my chest!

Edited August 30, 2010 by 4wheelin_fool

[+power69]

From another (older) thread, I was just reading:

 

Ok I'm sorry. I don't usually vent but............

I found a lamp-post cache today that was in a zipper bag!

Yes a zipper bag, no container just a freaking bag!

Oh! and on top of that someone (other than the cache owner) had replaced the cache log with small legal pad sheets and the first one had a bunch of button glues to it!

There was a cop watching us and after I pulled away, he parked near it and stared at the lamp

for a second or two, then went into the store!

 

I wondered if he was going to look for it, then track me down!

I'm sorry but if a cop sees you pull a plastic baggie out from under a lamp post cover he might think you are making a drug pick up!

 

AAAAAAAAH got that of my chest!

i found one of those but it was a zippered pencil holder that usually are in school notebooks under the lamp post cover. was in good condition.