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Juicepig

the Gloriousness of Wally world hides..

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I suspect we have a new listing status. Not retracted, but a step beyond archived. I'll call it archive+hide.

Nope. It's a site bug introduced in the last update. All archived+locked caches are showing as unpublished.

 

Check out any locationless finds in your profile.

 

i reported it as a problem on the Feedback sit and apparently is not a bug

 

Jeremy, Official Rep, replied 2 minutes ago

Archived and locked caches are no longer viewable. This does not affect a user's find stats. We will change the text to indicate that they are locked and archived instead of unpublished.

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i reported it as a problem on the Feedback sit and apparently is not a bug

 

Jeremy, Official Rep, replied 2 minutes ago

Archived and locked caches are no longer viewable. This does not affect a user's find stats. We will change the text to indicate that they are locked and archived instead of unpublished.

Saw that. Not happy with it. The should have made a separate "hidden" status the could use on sensitive problem caches.

 

Now we can't see old locationless or ape caches anymore. :D

 

I'm starting to not look forward to the monthly updates anymore. They always take something away with each one.

Edited by Avernar

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I'm starting to not look forward to the monthly updates anymore. They always take something away with each one.

 

Cue the Stock Groundspeak Response: "Waymarking.com"

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it would be perfectly plausible for them to assume 'bomb' there.

 

I just can not imagine a world where people go around with the normal assumption that everything that does not fit into there everyday world must be construed as nefarious!

 

Please forgive the vocabulary, I have been reading a lot of Arthur Canon Doyle lately.

 

Still it is sad. I do agree that in this case the placement is indeed just asking for trouble. Evil Micro's!

 

It's the USA. It's the end of August, only days away from the Sept. the 11th. Walmart is probably the #1 symbol of capitalism in retail business form.

 

It's somewhat understandable. However, the last time I checked islamic terrorists weren't into blowing up trees or a few cars.

 

Still,......perhaps if you didn't go through it, you can't understand it, but many Americans are now on "alert" 24/7 because of the events of 9.11.2001. Rest assured that many private citizens are now willing to fight back at the drop of a hat. That vigilance sometimes results in something like this...a little overreaction from someone who probably didn't analyze the situation enough( film canister? in a tree? in a parking lot?) before making the call to 9-1-1. However, we have learned to err on the side of caution.

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Cue the Stock Groundspeak Response: "Waymarking.com"

So no updates instead of bad updates then? :D (Hiding before bootron hunts me down. :) )

 

But seriously, I wish TPTB would let the the lackeys add some much needed features to Waymarking.com.

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Which cache in Orillia was blown up? We are from Orillia and would like to avoid placing one in the location lol... :D

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Ahh yikes! we are less than 1km from this location lol. Actually we have a couple in the area and will remember not to put one out on the point lol :D

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Ahh yikes! we are less than 1km from this location lol. Actually we have a couple in the area and will remember not to put one out on the point lol :D

 

Actually the issue was more the "it looks like a pipe bomb" thing than the "it's a geocache" thing. I'm pretty confident a clear container labelled "Geocache" would be ok there.

 

Also, the muggle removed it and took it to the Police station, which appeared far more threatening in that context.

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Woah thanks for the background, not the brightest bulb in the pack....

I wonder if KSACat plans to drop another cache in this location...

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it would be perfectly plausible for them to assume 'bomb' there.

 

I just can not imagine a world where people go around with the normal assumption that everything that does not fit into there everyday world must be construed as nefarious!

 

Please forgive the vocabulary, I have been reading a lot of Arthur Canon Doyle lately.

 

Still it is sad. I do agree that in this case the placement is indeed just asking for trouble. Evil Micro's!

 

It's the USA. It's the end of August, only days away from the Sept. the 11th. Walmart is probably the #1 symbol of capitalism in retail business form.

 

It's somewhat understandable. However, the last time I checked islamic terrorists weren't into blowing up trees or a few cars.

 

Still,......perhaps if you didn't go through it, you can't understand it, but many Americans are now on "alert" 24/7 because of the events of 9.11.2001. Rest assured that many private citizens are now willing to fight back at the drop of a hat. That vigilance sometimes results in something like this...a little overreaction from someone who probably didn't analyze the situation enough( film canister? in a tree? in a parking lot?) before making the call to 9-1-1. However, we have learned to err on the side of caution.

But it’s not just the USA, working for a Canadian Company who is now owned by a US firm, our Federal Government has made a “Big Deal” of security and safety in Canada. The security and safety programs we must meet, train and the drills that we must run you’d expect an attack is expected. Whether it be by a group or just an individual who had a beef with the company it doesn’t matter, people, innocent people would be hurt.

So when it comes to any part of Private Property even if there is a park like setting with wonderful trees to hide caches, my best advice is don’t.

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Making a blanket statement about specific hides is not fair to the people that placed the cache. What if the person just wants to contribute and that is all they can afford, or are cable of placing due to transportation restrictions. Are these people less worthy than someone who can drive out to the woods and place an amo can stocked with high quality swag? No, but by making a blanket statement, it says volumes about what is thought about the person with out knowing all the facts and that I find repulsive.

Ka-pow! Well put!!

 

No. There's no Ka-pow here. I know you like battles, but myself and Keith Watson are not punching each other in the face. :D

 

I am pretty sure I was just calling what I read. I read a kapow and therefore called a kapow. If you disagree feel free to that entitlement, but the kapow stands.

 

And for the record I love battles!! I didn't see one here worth fanning!

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I am gonna go out on a limb and ask... Have you put any of my caches on your ignore list? Be honest, I can take it.

 

Answering that would mar the beauty of the Ignore List and its anonymity.

 

Not to mention the first step in a slippery slope of "How about me???" requests.

I haven't seen many of your logs in the newer caches close to me (probably been a little while since you've been back), so if you were to ignore mine it would only be due to my lack of personality, lol!!

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But it’s not just the USA, working for a Canadian Company who is now owned by a US firm, our Federal Government has made a “Big Deal” of security and safety in Canada. The security and safety programs we must meet, train and the drills that we must run you’d expect an attack is expected. Whether it be by a group or just an individual who had a beef with the company it doesn’t matter, people, innocent people would be hurt.

So when it comes to any part of Private Property even if there is a park like setting with wonderful trees to hide caches, my best advice is don’t.

 

It was just two months ago that we had a major security incident right here in Toronto the Good. Does anyone remember that G20 thing? If that weekend did one thing it was to prove that yes, even in Toronto we can produce (or import) people who will commit acts of violence toward major corporations. Ask Starbucks how their downtown locations fared that weekend.

 

That was a whopping 30km away from this geocache that had the bomb squad deal with it.

15 minute drive on the highway.

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I am gonna go out on a limb and ask... Have you put any of my caches on your ignore list? Be honest, I can take it.

 

Answering that would mar the beauty of the Ignore List and its anonymity.

 

Not to mention the first step in a slippery slope of "How about me???" requests.

I haven't seen many of your logs in the newer caches close to me (probably been a little while since you've been back), so if you were to ignore mine it would only be due to my lack of personality, lol!!

 

Don't sell yourself short. I quit logging most of my finds over a year ago. So I may have found your caches. :D

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I'ld rather see the interesting (Like the moose at Walmart HO) than hunt the mundane in the woods.

 

That moose WAS unique wasn't it. Still wondering why they hid it around the side of the building (instead of view it from Argentia), and why they put the big recycling bin in front of it. Ruined the photo opportunity.

 

I mean, a Moose wearing a Wal*Mart uniform .... you'd think they would want to show it off eh?

 

I hid it there because of that lovely moose. Actually wanted to start a series of bullwinkle caches, starting with this one. The walmart moose was infront of the main entrance, then they did a big renovation a few years ago, and the moose vanished. I initially thought vandals took it...(as they did with many of Mel Lastman's Mooses) but i found it repositioned in the back.

 

I thought alot of people would get a kick out of seeing a moose in a walmart uniform......unique.

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Don't sell yourself short. I quit logging most of my finds over a year ago. So I may have found your caches. :D

Do you still sign the physical logs?

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Don't sell yourself short. I quit logging most of my finds over a year ago. So I may have found your caches. B)

Do you still sign the physical logs?

 

Sometimes. Typically not for nanos and bison tubes. Too hard to remove the log paper.

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The archived cache page for this one shows up as unpublished now. How come other archived caches still show up?

 

I still think the Timmins one was worse....and by worse, I mean hilarious. Who picks up a suspicious item and puts it in their car and then drives to the police station and brings it to the front desk to report a bomb, lmao!

 

Well, there's a good way to knock the smiley count off by one..... if you found the cache before, and then celebrated #5000 at a glorious cache but went to a park'n'grab for 4999, guess what ...... B)

 

Appears we have uncovered a bug. If you look at flight idle's profile, the cache is still listed. But if you click on it, it shows unpublished.

 

Groundspeak is aware of this bug item and plans to address/clarify it in a future update

 

:D CD

Edited by CacheDrone

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The archived cache page for this one shows up as unpublished now. How come other archived caches still show up?

 

I still think the Timmins one was worse....and by worse, I mean hilarious. Who picks up a suspicious item and puts it in their car and then drives to the police station and brings it to the front desk to report a bomb, lmao!

 

Well, there's a good way to knock the smiley count off by one..... if you found the cache before, and then celebrated #5000 at a glorious cache but went to a park'n'grab for 4999, guess what ...... B)

 

Appears we have uncovered a bug. If you look at flight idle's profile, the cache is still listed. But if you click on it, it shows unpublished.

 

Groundspeak is aware of this bug item and plans to address/clarify it in a future update

 

:D CD

 

Already fixed. :)

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I don't often step into the Canada Forums under my reviewer account but some aspects of this thread are a cause for concern.

 

Please remember that anyone is able to read these forums. That is not to say that healthy discussion and debate is not a good thing but some postings have been a bit irresponsible. Suggesting that the bomb squad goes around blowing things up simply because they can and that they enjoy doing so seems rather in bad taste. Suggesting that other geocachers brazenly ignore no trespassing and similar signage casts a dark shadow on our activity. Likely in every large pool of participants there may be those few that shirk common sense but to an outside reader of this thread all they might see is that geocachers are disrespectful of laws, rules and ancillary requirements. Under my player account I have never witnessed any of my friends do anything while geocaching that I would not be proud to tell a news reporter, police officer or curious land manager.

 

It's been said that less than 2% of geocachers even look at the forums. Please do not be making "large brush" statements that potentially could restrict geocaching for everyone. Remember, all it took was a few poorly written cache logs to start the ban on geocaching in Ontario Provincial Parks. Cracker Barrel in the US did the same thing, issued a policy to stop caching in the "Off Yer Rocker" series. It does not take much and comments that put us in a bad light do nothing to help promote our fun activity.

 

If you see something wrong when caching you can contact the cache owner, log a needs archived or contact the publishing reviewer. And yes we do review from the position of assumed permission. We also are not local to every single spot so we have to rely on locals to update us about problems. People that care about the hobby will want to preserve it.

 

B) CD

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I don't often step into the Canada Forums under my reviewer account but some aspects of this thread are a cause for concern.

 

Please remember that anyone is able to read these forums. That is not to say that healthy discussion and debate is not a good thing but some postings have been a bit irresponsible. Suggesting that the bomb squad goes around blowing things up simply because they can and that they enjoy doing so seems rather in bad taste. Suggesting that other geocachers brazenly ignore no trespassing and similar signage casts a dark shadow on our activity. Likely in every large pool of participants there may be those few that shirk common sense but to an outside reader of this thread all they might see is that geocachers are disrespectful of laws, rules and ancillary requirements. Under my player account I have never witnessed any of my friends do anything while geocaching that I would not be proud to tell a news reporter, police officer or curious land manager.

 

It's been said that less than 2% of geocachers even look at the forums. Please do not be making "large brush" statements that potentially could restrict geocaching for everyone. Remember, all it took was a few poorly written cache logs to start the ban on geocaching in Ontario Provincial Parks. Cracker Barrel in the US did the same thing, issued a policy to stop caching in the "Off Yer Rocker" series. It does not take much and comments that put us in a bad light do nothing to help promote our fun activity.

 

If you see something wrong when caching you can contact the cache owner, log a needs archived or contact the publishing reviewer. And yes we do review from the position of assumed permission. We also are not local to every single spot so we have to rely on locals to update us about problems. People that care about the hobby will want to preserve it.

 

:D CD

 

I can understand someone reading the forums or cache listings and making wrong conclusions by taking something out of context and or not fully understand what writer is trying to say. Are you suggesting that posters self sensor themselves and keep from land owners / managers the truth about what is going on on the properties they own / manage? I would rather be open about real events that have happened than lie or lie by omission.

 

Being a resident of Ontario and a user of Ontario parks, I would like to know what it was that was said that started the ban in Ontario parks. This is the first time I have heard about what caused the ban.

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I can understand someone reading the forums or cache listings and making wrong conclusions by taking something out of context and or not fully understand what writer is trying to say. Are you suggesting that posters self sensor themselves and keep from land owners / managers the truth about what is going on on the properties they own / manage? I would rather be open about real events that have happened than lie or lie by omission.

 

Being a resident of Ontario and a user of Ontario parks, I would like to know what it was that was said that started the ban in Ontario parks. This is the first time I have heard about what caused the ban.

 

Remember, all it took was a few poorly written cache logs to start the ban on geocaching in Ontario Provincial Parks. Cracker Barrel in the US did the same thing, issued a policy to stop caching in the "Off Yer Rocker" series. It does not take much and comments that put us in a bad light do nothing to help promote our fun activity.

 

Well, from the Ontario Parks people that I have talked to the main concerns were that we bury caches (misinformation that is sticking around like some urban legend) and the word bushwhack. Everytime someone posts the word "bushwhack" in their logs the Parks people cringe. Even if that was describing stepping a few feet of the trail, the image that's conjured up is that of someone going cross country with a machete and complete disregard for the natural surroundings.

 

While we may like to believe the parks were set up as places for people to enjoy, part of the Ontario Parks mandate is preservation of natural features, and these parks are often setup around Areas of Natural and Scientific Interest. When faced with a potential land use that encourages "bushwhacking" off trail, a lot of the park superintendents don't want that in their park.

 

Having said that, I am happy to see that some of the Park super's are warming up to the idea of Geocaching with some caches being allowed recently in parks such as Algonquin.

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Maybe someone in the area might want set up something similar to this with Peel Region Police.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...5d54f&log=y

 

Thanks for bringing that to our attention. I have spoken to some Peel officers and sergeants and one in the "bomb squad" had never even heard of geocaching before...until that Walmart incident. He was not too happy to hear about our hobby but I shed some positive light on it and he came around a little bit. Contrary to what others say or think, they do not enjoy going out and blowing things up. The amount of time and money wasted for each incident is a lot more than I thought.

 

So maybe an event like this in Peel might be a good thing as I can see this kind of thing happening again with so many rural caches around here.

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I can understand someone reading the forums or cache listings and making wrong conclusions by taking something out of context and or not fully understand what writer is trying to say. Are you suggesting that posters self sensor themselves and keep from land owners / managers the truth about what is going on on the properties they own / manage? I would rather be open about real events that have happened than lie or lie by omission.

 

I'm suggesting that if you are associating with people that blatantly ignore posted signs stating no trespassing or park hours that need be respected that I would question your level of integrity and ethics. To post that you are aware of such actions going on with such laissez faire serves no benefit to anyone. This isn't something as minor as picking one's nose at the dinner table (disgusting as that might be). By stating you are aware of it and not following up that you have said or done something about it implies to the casual observer that it is not taken seriously or is even condoned. It is not and should not be. See below for why that is a problem.

 

Being a resident of Ontario and a user of Ontario parks, I would like to know what it was that was said that started the ban in Ontario parks. This is the first time I have heard about what caused the ban.

 

When Ontario Parks met with some people, myself included, they were quick to show us cache logs and cache pages with content like this (these are not direct quotes, merely examples in the same genre)

  • We didn't pay the admission fee, we hopped over the fence at highway 5150 to get to the cache
  • Since we couldn't find it we started digging around (which they took as actual digging)
  • There is a back entrance one can sneak into
  • We bushwacked all the way there only to find a trail right beside the cache.
  • etc etc

Saying these things raised flags of caution, which escalated into Ontario Parks banning geocaching. Statements like "I know people have trespassed to get a cache" or "walked right past signs saying... {whatever}... is exactly the same thing that caused the ban.

 

All I am saying that if a group is looking at geocaching, or worse that they are looking for a reason to ban it, when they read that some people are being irresponsible and illegal and no one says something back like "That is not what we are supposed to do and jerks like that make us all look bad." then they feel justified in saying "Oh really? We don't want their type around on OUR land"... just like Ontario Parks did and Parks Canada did until we were able to convince them that what they heard was not accurate.

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I don't often step into the Canada Forums under my reviewer account but some aspects of this thread are a cause for concern.

 

Please remember that anyone is able to read these forums. That is not to say that healthy discussion and debate is not a good thing but some postings have been a bit irresponsible. Suggesting that the bomb squad goes around blowing things up simply because they can and that they enjoy doing so seems rather in bad taste. Suggesting that other geocachers brazenly ignore no trespassing and similar signage casts a dark shadow on our activity. Likely in every large pool of participants there may be those few that shirk common sense but to an outside reader of this thread all they might see is that geocachers are disrespectful of laws, rules and ancillary requirements. Under my player account I have never witnessed any of my friends do anything while geocaching that I would not be proud to tell a news reporter, police officer or curious land manager.

 

It's been said that less than 2% of geocachers even look at the forums. Please do not be making "large brush" statements that potentially could restrict geocaching for everyone. Remember, all it took was a few poorly written cache logs to start the ban on geocaching in Ontario Provincial Parks. Cracker Barrel in the US did the same thing, issued a policy to stop caching in the "Off Yer Rocker" series. It does not take much and comments that put us in a bad light do nothing to help promote our fun activity.

 

If you see something wrong when caching you can contact the cache owner, log a needs archived or contact the publishing reviewer. And yes we do review from the position of assumed permission. We also are not local to every single spot so we have to rely on locals to update us about problems. People that care about the hobby will want to preserve it.

 

:D CD

 

I can understand someone reading the forums or cache listings and making wrong conclusions by taking something out of context and or not fully understand what writer is trying to say. Are you suggesting that posters self sensor themselves and keep from land owners / managers the truth about what is going on on the properties they own / manage? I would rather be open about real events that have happened than lie or lie by omission.

 

Being a resident of Ontario and a user of Ontario parks, I would like to know what it was that was said that started the ban in Ontario parks. This is the first time I have heard about what caused the ban.

 

Hmm. I didn't think so at first, but if CD was talking about my posts as part of that statement, I apologize. :D

 

Yes, when you first ever look at these forums, you have to log in, and that "registers" you. Only about 20% of the accounts ever created have ever even looked at these forums. And the 2% posting rate is probably accurate too. Not unlike the millions of people who listen to talk radio who are never going to call into a show.

 

CD elaborated some more in the post above me. I also know when the South Carolina State Legislature tried to ban Geocaching in cemeteries in 2005 or 2006 (the legislation eventually died and never got enacted), The Legislators had a public hearing, and had all sorts of horrible anti-Geocaching evidence from cache logs such as hopping locked fences to enter cemeteries at night.

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... Parks Canada did until we were able to convince them that what they heard was not accurate.

 

I really don't like the idea of suggesting that people should lie in their logs, especially coming from a reviewer. I personally believe in being honest and if I have a good cache experience I usually write about it in detail. You and I have both been around long enough to know and you even gave examples of the logs that Ontario Parks showed to you about what cachers do. Cachers bushwack, Cachers go off trail, Cachers go into parks after hours, cachers find other ways into a park without paying, cachers jump fences, cachers ignore leash and stoop and scoop signs\laws, cachers trespass and probably most of all, we leave geotrails. It happens and I believe it happens frequently and we are all guilty of it. It sounds like Parks Canada was lied to ("convinced") that this doesn't happen when it clearly does based on the log examples you gave.

 

However even though cachers do all of this, most likely the amount of non cachers probably do all of this a lot more. Lets be honest with the land managers. Tell them the truth. Work with them to give cachers an enjoyable caching experience. If a land manager doesn't want caching as an activity on their land, then that is fine. There are so many other places to hide caches.

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Maybe someone in the area might want set up something similar to this with Peel Region Police.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...5d54f&log=y

 

Thanks for bringing that to our attention. I have spoken to some Peel officers and sergeants and one in the "bomb squad" had never even heard of geocaching before...until that Walmart incident. He was not too happy to hear about our hobby but I shed some positive light on it and he came around a little bit. Contrary to what others say or think, they do not enjoy going out and blowing things up. The amount of time and money wasted for each incident is a lot more than I thought.

 

So maybe an event like this in Peel might be a good thing as I can see this kind of thing happening again with so many rural caches around here.

 

I think it would be a great idea and I am sure PRP BS would appreciate the opportunity for an information exchange. They are really a good bunch of guys and gals.

 

If you decide to set it up, be sure to post a note here and I will be the first to log a Will Attend.

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... Parks Canada did until we were able to convince them that what they heard was not accurate.

 

I really don't like the idea of suggesting that people should lie in their logs, especially coming from a reviewer. I personally believe in being honest and if I have a good cache experience I usually write about it in detail. You and I have both been around long enough to know and you even gave examples of the logs that Ontario Parks showed to you about what cachers do. Cachers bushwack, Cachers go off trail, Cachers go into parks after hours, cachers find other ways into a park without paying, cachers jump fences, cachers ignore leash and stoop and scoop signs\laws, cachers trespass and probably most of all, we leave geotrails. It happens and I believe it happens frequently and we are all guilty of it. It sounds like Parks Canada was lied to ("convinced") that this doesn't happen when it clearly does based on the log examples you gave.

 

However even though cachers do all of this, most likely the amount of non cachers probably do all of this a lot more. Lets be honest with the land managers. Tell them the truth. Work with them to give cachers an enjoyable caching experience. If a land manager doesn't want caching as an activity on their land, then that is fine. There are so many other places to hide caches.

 

I cannot believe that you could have possibly come that conclusion. Seriously, you are so far off the mark it is unbelievable.

 

The correct answer, which should be obvious and apparent to anyone with a brain in their head is

 

DON'T HOP FENCES, DON'T IGNORE SIGNAGE, DON'T SNEAK INTO PARKS WITHOUT PAYING... etc etc.

 

And DO NOT imply that I am telling anyone to lie in their logs. Nowhere in my posts did I say anything even close to that, and to infer that I did is again completely irresponsible.

 

It is not about what non-cachers do. It is about what cachers do, and stopping them from doing things that are hurtful to the game. And I would bet that a majority of the people that have read from where I first posted would not have drawn any of the conclusions that a few of the replies have reached.

 

:laughing: CD

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Here is an example of where a group of cachers, by the logger's own admission, not only ignored the property owner, but used diversionary tactics to distract the owner while they violated the person's property to sign the log.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...9c-729fd4b90030

 

I am sure any CA or private property owner would look at this log and say "Why would I let this type of person place something on my property?"

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... Parks Canada did until we were able to convince them that what they heard was not accurate.

 

I really don't like the idea of suggesting that people should lie in their logs, especially coming from a reviewer. I personally believe in being honest and if I have a good cache experience I usually write about it in detail. You and I have both been around long enough to know and you even gave examples of the logs that Ontario Parks showed to you about what cachers do. Cachers bushwack, Cachers go off trail, Cachers go into parks after hours, cachers find other ways into a park without paying, cachers jump fences, cachers ignore leash and stoop and scoop signs\laws, cachers trespass and probably most of all, we leave geotrails. It happens and I believe it happens frequently and we are all guilty of it. It sounds like Parks Canada was lied to ("convinced") that this doesn't happen when it clearly does based on the log examples you gave.

 

However even though cachers do all of this, most likely the amount of non cachers probably do all of this a lot more. Lets be honest with the land managers. Tell them the truth. Work with them to give cachers an enjoyable caching experience. If a land manager doesn't want caching as an activity on their land, then that is fine. There are so many other places to hide caches.

 

I cannot believe that you could have possibly come that conclusion. Seriously, you are so far off the mark it is unbelievable.

 

The correct answer, which should be obvious and apparent to anyone with a brain in their head is

 

DON'T HOP FENCES, DON'T IGNORE SIGNAGE, DON'T SNEAK INTO PARKS WITHOUT PAYING... etc etc.

 

And DO NOT imply that I am telling anyone to lie in their logs. Nowhere in my posts did I say anything even close to that, and to infer that I did is again completely irresponsible.

 

It is not about what non-cachers do. It is about what cachers do, and stopping them from doing things that are hurtful to the game. And I would bet that a majority of the people that have read from where I first posted would not have drawn any of the conclusions that a few of the replies have reached.

 

:laughing: CD

 

Everyone will agree that no one should do those things, but, people DO hop fences, DO ignore signage, etc etc etc and it's shown in the logs of cachers by your own example in your previous post. And you HAVE emailed a person in a group I was caching with to tell them to remove a certain something from their log (in other words lie) because in your opinion it may not look favourable to a provincial park, even though it was not in a provincial park. Ontario Parks has every right not to allow the placement of new geocaches on their land (note, existing caches were allowed to remain). They own\manage the land and want to protect it from unnecessary damage. Lets be honest with the parks and work with them.

 

Just look at the Walmart cache that this thread is supposed to be about. 70+ people trespassed in order to get a smiley.

 

And yes I agree with you when you say "It is about what cachers do, and stopping them from doing things that are hurtful to the game". However we have to look at non cachers too and in comparison cachers I am sure most of us agree are pretty harmless. Caching has been around for 10 years and what cachers do hasn't changed from what I have seen and witnessed first hand. How about we all provide some solutions to the problem. One certainly is education, but how many people given the situation would choose bushwack 50m or walk 300m around to get to a cache. Many would take the bushwack route.

Edited by res2100

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Here is an example of where a group of cachers, by the logger's own admission, not only ignored the property owner, but used diversionary tactics to distract the owner while they violated the person's property to sign the log.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...9c-729fd4b90030

 

I am sure any CA or private property owner would look at this log and say "Why would I let this type of person place something on my property?"

 

A very good example of a very confusing situation. The wood lot in question was beside an apartment building. Some woman shouting we were on private property and there were no visible signs that this was private property. There was a cache in the wood lot and we as many others have, assumed that permission was given. As has happened many times with geocaching, permission is given but not everyone knows. Broook22 tried to explain what we were doing there and the woman from what I saw didn't even want to listen. Anyone can see that the cache is still active which means that after explaining what we were doing there, nothing was done to remove the cache. At least nothing that i can see from the logs.

 

At no time was the property owner involved that I am aware of. Only some woman making claims of being a resident and offering no indication she had any authority to make demands of us. The statement that "not only ignored the property owner, but used diversionary tactics to distract the owner while they violated the person's property to sign the log" is a blatant misrepresentation of the the log and the events that happened. It is this kind of posting in the forums that will cause problems with land owners. If anyone is going to make reference to a log, please present it truthfully.

 

Embellishment of the truth or twisting of the events serves no body and may inflame other readers of the forums.

Edited by Keith Watson

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....Only some woman making claims of being a resident and offering no indication she had any authority to make demands of us.....

 

Your log states.

 

a local resident started shouting at us that we were trespassing and the wood lot was their property and we had to leave.

 

Sounds like she was claiming she was the owner and thus had authority (in your own words). Whether or not you believed her or not, continuing to stay on that property without FIRST resolving the issue, is the wrong course of action.

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Whether or not you believed her or not, continuing to stay on that property without FIRST resolving the issue, is the wrong course of action.

 

That is correct and what I would recommend to anyone one. The only two things that were keeping me from leaving eminently is that one of our group was talking with the woman and I was hoping that the situation would be reconciled. Just about every time I have been confronted while geocaching, a simple explanation usually solves the situation. Secondly, one of the group was already half way up a tree. I was not about to leave members of the group behind in a situation like that until I knew they were safe and ready to leave as a group.

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You yell at everyone... "Please come back/down now... There is a problem". Then fix problem ensuring the local is completely happy. If this does not happen, leave immediately.

 

Let's turn the tables... You see a group of people on your property... You yell to them. One comes over. The rest keep doing their thing...

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Here is an example of where a group of cachers, by the logger's own admission, not only ignored the property owner, but used diversionary tactics to distract the owner while they violated the person's property to sign the log.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...9c-729fd4b90030

 

I am sure any CA or private property owner would look at this log and say "Why would I let this type of person place something on my property?"

 

that wood lot is not Private Property

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You yell at everyone... "Please come back/down now... There is a problem". Then fix problem ensuring the local is completely happy. If this does not happen, leave immediately.

 

Let's turn the tables... You see a group of people on your property... You yell to them. One comes over. The rest keep doing their thing...

 

That's and easy one. I talk to the one that comes over and find out what is going on. Same thing that happens every time we run into the police while out caching. One person goes over to the police officer and explains what we are doing and after explaining, the officer tells us to have a good day or night.

 

How do you tell the difference between a nut and someone in authority like a land manager or property owner. The person in authority will identify themselves as the person who has the authority to tell you to get out. A few years ago I was told we were not allowed to park on a public road with no no parking signs and that the land we were about to enter was private property and we we not allowed to go there. The land in question was the Bruce trail.

 

It is a judgment call you have to make at the point when the hypothetical becomes reality. It is not like we just stood around for ten to twenty minutes taunting the woman. The whole was over in a few minutes and I think most us us were still trying to figure what had happened after it was over. It was not a very pleasant situation to be in and hope I never have to go through one like that again.

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How do you tell the difference between a nut and someone in authority like a land manager or property owner. The person in authority will identify themselves as the person who has the authority to tell you to get out. A few years ago I was told we were not allowed to park on a public road with no no parking signs and that the land we were about to enter was private property and we we not allowed to go there. The land in question was the Bruce trail.

 

Heh. I remember that one. The property owner came out saying things like "how would you like it if I parked on the road in front of your house". He was treating a county road as a private drive.

 

--

 

What I'm getting out of this discussion is that property owners will take things out of context, particularly if we emphasize that in our logs. They're not going to read the 150 logs of people who obeyed the rules, stayed on the trails and paid for the park access. They're going to highlight that ONE log that talks about hopping the fence after the park closed and bushwhacking 300M through ANSI properties to get their smiley. We need to discourage those logs. The MAJORITY of cachers do not break the rules, a small subset of cachers do. Unfortunately, these ones get all the press / notice.

 

We need to discourage the actions that set land owners against us. First and foremost don't break the rules. That's a given. For pete's sakes though, if you're dead set on getting that smiley at all costs don't go around bragging about it in your logs. That paints geocachers in an unfavourable light. The action of "lying" in your log is not as damaging as the decision to take the initial action was.

 

Yes, there are a lot of us who know the back door entrances to park properties. A lot of us who know those back doors are purchasing season passes and Bruce Trail memberships (where applicable) to entitle us to use those access points without visiting the front gate.

 

I have also been to caches where some adjacent land owner comes out yelling about trespassing and private property even though I am fully aware I'm on crown land, or in a park. My response is to attempt to talk to the landowner but I find I'm usually not the first person they have talked to and they are absolutely convinced about their position. In each of these times I have left the cache location and posted a note. There are those times I have suggested a cache be archived rather than create a confrontational situation between cachers and muggles -- what good does a confrontation like this do for geocaching? As a cache owner, do you really want to bring people to a fight? How would you feel if your first cache involved someone chasing you off the property?

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that wood lot is not Private Property

 

Whether it is or is not private property is not the point. Having the local people thinking that Geocachers are bad people is the point.

 

Making it sound in your log that your are ignoring the rules or the local people is the other point.

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that wood lot is not Private Property

 

Whether it is or is not private property is not the point. Having the local people thinking that Geocachers are bad people is the point.

 

Making it sound in your log that your are ignoring the rules or the local people is the other point.

 

well it is the point, technically except for crown land every piece of land is owned by someone

according to OLA (Ontario Landowner Association) unless the landowner specifically restricts access anyone is free to go in as long as their activities are lawful

 

Entry on to Private Property

In general terms anyone may enter onto private property to do anything, which is lawful without occupier permission unless the entrant has been given notice that entry is prohibited. Therefore, a private owned bush lot is available to the public until the occupier notifies otherwise. The occupier has a number of options when it comes to letting people know that entry is prohibited or that activities are restricted.

 

You must Explicitly Notify that Access is Prohibited - Put up Signs

 

in the absence of signs prohibiting access, unless you see proof that such person is indeed the landowner you don't know for sure who you're dealing with

but for the sake of keeping the peace i would not argue with someone claiming that is their property, unless i know 100% is not private property

 

now if someone blatantly admits to ignoring posted signs, that is wrong

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that wood lot is not Private Property

 

Whether it is or is not private property is not the point. Having the local people thinking that Geocachers are bad people is the point.

 

Making it sound in your log that your are ignoring the rules or the local people is the other point.

 

well it is the point, technically except for crown land every piece of land is owned by someone

according to OLA (Ontario Landowner Association) unless the landowner specifically restricts access anyone is free to go in as long as their activities are lawful

 

Entry on to Private Property

In general terms anyone may enter onto private property to do anything, which is lawful without occupier permission unless the entrant has been given notice that entry is prohibited. Therefore, a private owned bush lot is available to the public until the occupier notifies otherwise. The occupier has a number of options when it comes to letting people know that entry is prohibited or that activities are restricted.

 

You must Explicitly Notify that Access is Prohibited - Put up Signs

 

in the absence of signs prohibiting access, unless you see proof that such person is indeed the landowner you don't know for sure who you're dealing with

but for the sake of keeping the peace i would not argue with someone claiming that is their property, unless i know 100% is not private property

 

now if someone blatantly admits to ignoring posted signs, that is wrong

 

Having the local people thinking that Geocachers are bad people is exactly the point.

 

Put yourself in the position of a neophyte, with little or no knowledge of geocaching, and read the logs from May 29, 2010. You read the following phrases:

 

We had to do this one double time.

 

...a local resident started shouting at us that we were trespassing and the wood lot was their property and we had to leave.

 

<cacher name removed> took her on.........

 

With all the screaming going on here,

 

.....I could definitely hear her yelling.

 

Not sure if we were trespassing in the woods or not,

 

Thanks to <cacher name removed> for taking one for the team!

 

I didn't think I was seen so discretely proceeded to grab and log the cache

 

I had a feeling I didn't have much time.

 

It appears that the condo owners are sick of the general public being on their property.

 

The woman I was speaking with insisted that the woods was also private property and informed me that the police would be called if we didn't leave immediately. Good thing <cacher name removed> can scamper up trees quickly.

 

How does one not get the impression that geocachers (at least some of them) are a gang who think they have the right to go anywhere and do anything they want?

 

In the absence of proof otherwise, it would have been advisable to err on the side of caution, give the lady the benefit of the doubt, skip this cache and move on to the next location.

 

Is one smiley really worth the black eye to geocaching?

 

 

 

.

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In anticipation of the next post:

 

Did I paint the situation in the worst possible light?? YES

 

Did I make it look as melodramatic as possible? YES

 

Exactly the same way that a person trying to keep geocaching out would paint it.

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In anticipation of the next post:

 

Did I paint the situation in the worst possible light?? YES

 

Did I make it look as melodramatic as possible? YES

 

Exactly the same way that a person trying to keep geocaching out would paint it.

 

This only show that your repeated posts on the situation have been worded to paint the situation in a bad light. You have made false claims about what happened.

 

Here is an example of where a group of cachers, by the logger's own admission, not only ignored the property owner, but used diversionary tactics to distract the owner while they violated the person's property to sign the log.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...9c-729fd4b90030

 

"ignored the property owner"

 

At no point did I identify this person as the property owner so stating that I ignored the property owner is a lie.

 

"used diversionary tactics to distract the owner"

 

It was not me that tried to talk to the woman to explain what we were doing, so the claim that I used diversionary tactics to distract the owner is again a lie.

 

Everyone is concerned with what is written in logs and forums about our behavior and how it can be misunderstood. Take a look back through this forum thread and and then imagine what a land owner / manager may think about geocachers.

 

It has been clearly demonstrated at least poster in this forum have twisted logs and posted fals claims to prove their own point as admitted by the poster.

 

Would it be a far reach for a reader of this forum to think the following?

 

"Why would I trust anyone to use or visit my property or the property I manage and treat it with respect, when the very same people can even respect each other or be honest in a public forum?"

Edited by Keith Watson

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At no point did I identify this person as the property owner so stating that I ignored the property owner is a lie.

 

 

Actually you did, when, in your post you stated :

 

a local resident started shouting at us that we were trespassing and the wood lot was their property.....

 

 

.

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At no point did I identify this person as the property owner so stating that I ignored the property owner is a lie.

Actually you did, when, in your post you stated :

 

a local resident started shouting at us that we were trespassing and the wood lot was their property.....

.

 

so you're saying that i can claim any woodlot/piece of land is my property and people should believe me just because i say so?

 

i fully agree to respect the signs and rules posted, however where such indication is not visible is purely a judgment call how to proceed

Edited by t4e

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At no point did I identify this person as the property owner so stating that I ignored the property owner is a lie.

 

 

Actually you did, when, in your post you stated :

 

a local resident started shouting at us that we were trespassing and the wood lot was their property.....

 

 

.

 

I give up. I have seen logs far worse than this. Do I wish to start shaming other people just to distract the attention from me? No. You can just go on posting misrepresentations of an event that you were not even present for an I will sit quietly on the side knowing that I did my best given the circumstances. Am I ashamed of what happened? Obviously not or I wouldn't have posted it log. I do feel sorry for the other people in the group who have now been dragged through this because you decided to make an example of the situation.

 

As a final note on this subject, the land owners / managers have every right to know what is happening on their properties or the properties they manage, period. If they misunderstand a situation then that sucks for the people involved. If the misunderstanding leads to issues for other people than that suck's even more. What would suck most is if people feared telling the truth or began hiding the true because they were afraid it might be misunderstood or misrepresented in public forum.

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so you're saying that i can claim any woodlot/piece of land is my property and people should believe me just because i say so?

 

 

I didn't say that at all. I said:

 

In the absence of proof otherwise, it would have been advisable to err on the side of caution, give the lady the benefit of the doubt, skip this cache and move on to the next location.

 

At least two of the cachers present logged the fact there was shouting and yelling and a need to do the cache " double time".

 

Is a smiley worth this?

 

.

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so you're saying that i can claim any woodlot/piece of land is my property and people should believe me just because i say so?

 

I didn't say that at all. I said:

In the absence of proof otherwise, it would have been advisable to err on the side of caution, give the lady the benefit of the doubt, skip this cache and move on to the next location.

At least two of the cachers present logged the fact there was shouting and yelling and a need to do the cache " double time".

 

Is a smiley worth this?

 

.

 

well you just did with the "give the lady the benefit of the doubt"

 

the fact remains that in the absence of proper signage i am legally allowed to be on that property

for all i know the person claiming to be the land owner can very well be one of the homeless that lives in there

it could also be just someone that lives in that apartment building and takes it upon themselves to try and impose rules

and than you have people just being unreasonable for whatever reason

once i had to make a u-turn and the only safe way to do so was to back in a bit (rear wheels only) on someones driveway, which happened to be out shoveling, and they come running to tell me its private property :)

 

anyway, if she really is the land owner she would have put up some signs by now, its been 3 months since the incident, but there is nothing there yet

and it seems since may 29 she has not made another appearance during the next visits

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