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Juicepig

the Gloriousness of Wally world hides..

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From WalMart Central in Mississauga:

 

11:37 am Subject: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please Read

Early this morning an Associate reported seeing a suspicious package attached to one of the trees in the East parking lot.. As a precautionary measure the corporate security team contacted Peel Police. The Police have quadrant off a portion of the East parking lot and are requesting that all Associates remain away from this area. If for an emergency reason you need to access your vehicle please contact corporate security or your People Manager. We will let you know when this issue is resolved.

 

1:35 pm Subject: FW: IMPORTANT NOTICE: Update

Please be advised that the Peel Police have dealt with the suspicious item left in the East parking lot. The item turned out to be a GPS based scavenger hunt game. The item was destroyed by the Police and minor debris may be found in the parking lot. We do not believe any cars were damaged as a result of this action. If you have any concerns relating to your vehicle please contact Corporate Security or your People Manager. We will investigate how the item got to this location. We do not know whether any of our Associates had any connection with this item however, this event is an opportunity to remind all that no one should leave any packages unattended in public areas on Wal-Mart property.

Edited by Juicepig

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I know that one. It is not at a Walmart store. It is in the parking lot of a Walmart office.

 

Yes it was in the employee parking lot if I recall correctly. A person skulking around a light post at a Wal*Mart store comes off as slightly less suspicious than a person skulking around a tree at a corporate office.

 

Particularly a corporate office for a store like Wal*Mart - which tends to face real protesters from time to time; it would be perfectly plausible for them to assume 'bomb' there.

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it would be perfectly plausible for them to assume 'bomb' there.

 

I just can not imagine a world where people go around with the normal assumption that everything that does not fit into there everyday world must be construed as nefarious!

 

Please forgive the vocabulary, I have been reading a lot of Arthur Canon Doyle lately.

 

Still it is sad. I do agree that in this case the placement is indeed just asking for trouble. Evil Micro's!

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I have to wonder how many times the bomb squad knows exactly what it is and blows it up anyway because they just want to blow something up? That being said, I also know that they have to assume worst and error on the side of caution. I still have to wonder sometimes though.

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I have to wonder how many times the bomb squad knows exactly what it is and blows it up anyway because they just want to blow something up? That being said, I also know that they have to assume worst and error on the side of caution. I still have to wonder sometimes though.

 

but the problem is the one time they will assume is harmless it will actually be a real bomb

 

i do agree with you that most times they just do it to blow something up

 

i always thought they have some kind of x-ray device that can determine if its an explosive device before they detonate it

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I have to wonder how many times the bomb squad knows exactly what it is and blows it up anyway because they just want to blow something up? That being said, I also know that they have to assume worst and error on the side of caution. I still have to wonder sometimes though.

 

I find myself wondering if there isn't at least one person on the Bomb Squad by now that has the Geocaching app on an iPhone (or other device) to check for a cache in the area of a 'suspicious package'.

 

Particularly in Ontario where we've detonated at least three caches now in my memory. (Orillia / Timmins / Mississauga).

 

Wonder what they'd do if they saw this one:

a4a2xc.jpg

25gukoh.jpg

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LOL @ your Needs Archived log, NP.

 

Some bomb squads are equipped with portable X-rays scanners -- I doubt Orillia or Timmins are, but Peel Region might be. There are risks in the X-rays detonating the bomb, though. With something outdoors and just the size of a micro they might have thought it not worth the trouble and jumped straight to the controlled detonation.

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I can understand blowing up objects attached to bridges and around areas that could be seen as "security sensitive" (power plants or government buildings come to mind), but why would some entity target a tree? I can understand the arguement of "one day it'll be real" to a certain point, but I can't see the strategic importance of some random tree in a Walmart parking lot, necessitating a bomb squad to blow it up.

 

I'm with Keith on this one... sometimes I just think they enjoy blowing crap up.

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We have had 3 in Ottawa alone and NP you did not even list us....

 

Outcome from our last one a few years back.....clear containers in urban areas are best, no need to camo sticker them to death.

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Wonder what they'd do if they saw this one:

a4a2xc.jpg

25gukoh.jpg

 

I found this one in Texas...! I knew I was doomed when i immediately went for the birdseed...

 

Seriously though, please remember that REAL LIFE has very little to do with our beloved sport of geocaching. Just because YOU think your cache is a harmless 35mm in a tree doesn't mean that the bomb squad will shrug it off and assume the same. Their job is to render the situation safe, by disrupting the 'device.'

 

Read the chronology of the entire event again.

 

Suspicious package discovered.

Reported.

Action taken by Corporation.

Bomb Squad called.

Detonation.

Aftermath...

 

Would YOU like to be the CO, easily contacted by all authorities, and potentially LIABLE for costs and damages...?

 

Would YOU like to be contacted by the Corporation's lawyers and asked to explain yourself...? Sued for damages? Charged?

 

There are thousands of good locations for caches. Don't be one of the few who place caches in inappropriate locations, and make us ALL pay for your stoopidity...

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well......i'm speechless. I really enjoy hunting down urban caches, and have seen ones alot more suspicious that the one planted at the Walmart location. I guess this is a potential problem when looking for a good placement. We've all seen parking lot caches, and ones hidden on large green urban transformers. Even children's parks.

 

I agree with model12....maybe a film canister wrapped in camo, with hanging wire attached to it, would look like an improvised bomb or device to the general eye.

 

I would think that if it did indeed look like a bad placement, or uber suspicious....the cache reviewer and / or some of the experienced cachers in the community might advise the owner to move or remove the cache.

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...I would think that if it did indeed look like a bad placement, or uber suspicious....the cache reviewer and / or some of the experienced cachers in the community might advise the owner to move or remove the cache.

 

Folks tend not to take criticism well

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Would YOU like to be the CO, easily contacted by all authorities, and potentially LIABLE for costs and damages...?

 

Would YOU like to be contacted by the Corporation's lawyers and asked to explain yourself...? Sued for damages? Charged?

 

There are thousands of good locations for caches. Don't be one of the few who place caches in inappropriate locations, and make us ALL pay for your stoopidity...

 

 

 

how do we know the CO is not a WalMart employee? ...well, could be an ex-employee now

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Would YOU like to be the CO, easily contacted by all authorities, and potentially LIABLE for costs and damages...?

 

Would YOU like to be contacted by the Corporation's lawyers and asked to explain yourself...? Sued for damages? Charged?

 

There are thousands of good locations for caches. Don't be one of the few who place caches in inappropriate locations, and make us ALL pay for your stoopidity...

 

 

 

how do we know the CO is not a WalMart employee? ...well, could be an ex-employee now

 

We could ask him. That's him in post #17, flight idle. :laughing:

 

Very nice post, Model12. I agree totally. Especially when these threads usually run about 90% of the people saying "over reaction". C'mon now, you really think we should be playing this game on private property in a corporate office park? Well, I don't, and never have, but you can. :laughing:

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sometimes I just think they enjoy blowing crap up.

Field training exercise. :laughing:

 

I have spent a fair bit of time working bloodhounds off exploded "items" with various government agencies in the U.S. You very quickly learn three things about bomb techs.

 

(1) Typically, they only get to make a mistake once.

(2) The are a different breed of person. And I mean that in a very positive way. I would trust my life with them.

(3) They do like to blow things up. That is how they learn about explosives and how to deal with them.

 

I have no problem in police detonating an unknown package. As for "checking to see if there is a cache published in the area, what better disguise that to publish a cache, wait for the FTF frenzy to abate and then replace it with an explosive. Bombers are pretty sick people. We are fortunate they have not focused on Canada.

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(1) Typically, they only get to make a mistake once.

That's why I'm assuming the dispatcher/supervisor doesn't tell the bomb tech if it they think it's probably benign. It's safer to let the tech proceed as if it was real.

 

(3) They do like to blow things up. That is how they learn about explosives and how to deal with them.

I don't have an issue with them blowing things up. If it was real then they succeeded in making the area safe. If it wasn't then they got some additional training under realistic conditions.

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Look at it this way, the cache is still there. It just requires reassembly to log.

Also deals with position error. Saying the cache is within 10 feet just took on a whole new meaning. :laughing:

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Having permission does not always guarantee your cache does not get blown up or show full of holes. There was a cache in the U.S. right beside a police station. The placer had permission. The problem is that the person that gave permission was on vacation when a passer by reported the container.

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Look at it this way, the cache is still there. It just requires reassembly to log.

Also deals with position error. Saying the cache is within 10 feet just took on a whole new meaning. :laughing:

 

It actually quite surprising to see how far exploded material can travel.

 

We detonated a running shoe (to replicate the shoe bomber) and we were picking up pieces of the shoe over 100 meters away. And the hounds were still able to use the pieces to trail and identify the bomber.

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Well, the cache listing has received a note from Bryan @ Groundspeak.

[Groundspeak NOTE:

This geocache is not available. Please do not visit this area. It is private property and off limits. Violators will likely be prosecuted.]

 

My guess is (and this makes perfect sense) is that someone contacted someone...

 

:)

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how do we know the CO is not a WalMart employee? ...well, could be an ex-employee now

 

We could ask him. That's him in post #17, flight idle. :)

 

Very nice post, Model12. I agree totally. Especially when these threads usually run about 90% of the people saying "over reaction". C'mon now, you really think we should be playing this game on private property in a corporate office park? Well, I don't, and never have, but you can. :rolleyes:

 

not a walmart employee. But I can tell you the cache was well over 100ft from the building. Buried deep in a spruce tree. must have fallen out to have been noticed.

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....the cache was well over 100ft from the building.....

 

...on private property....without permission..... :)

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....the cache was well over 100ft from the building.....

 

...on private property....without permission..... :)

 

Just like 99% of the other caches out there.

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....the cache was well over 100ft from the building.....

 

...on private property....without permission..... :)

 

Just like 99% of the other caches out there.

 

Good point. How many people can honestly say they have asked and received permission for every single cache they have placed on private property?

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Well, the cache listing has received a note from Bryan @ Groundspeak.

[Groundspeak NOTE:

This geocache is not available. Please do not visit this area. It is private property and off limits. Violators will likely be prosecuted.]

 

My guess is (and this makes perfect sense) is that someone contacted someone...

 

:)

 

I agree. I wonder if it will result in a letter from Corporate Walmart to Groundspeak to remove all caches on their property?

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Just like 99% of the other caches out there.

 

Really? Maybe it is an Ontario thing. Other than parking lot caches, which are for the most park junk, everything else should be on public property. I certainly do not have any caches on private property and I cannot understand why you would without asking. Asking is simple.

Edited by Red90

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Other than parking lot caches

 

That's kinda the key issue, though, isn't it? A parking lot seem like a public space (on private property), but some are more public than others.

 

There's a difference between a Tim Horton's lot, and the parking at a private office building or industrial park. For the former, there's an expectation that random people will come and go as they please at all hours of the day; for the latter, strangers or anyone who falls outside a fairly narrow pattern of coming and going is viewed with suspicion.

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I did a cache in Alberta a few weeks ago in a parking lot behind an office. So I know it is not just and Ontario thing.

 

I was referring to him saying 99% of all caches are on private property..... I was stating that parking lot caches tend to be the only ones that I know of are on private property (and normally do not have permission). This is (fortunately) not 99% of all caches. I'm guessing more like 5%.

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That's kinda the key issue, though, isn't it? A parking lot seem like a public space (on private property), but some are more public than others

 

That is 100% the issue. If you place on private property such as a parking lot, GET PERMISSION. You just need to ask. It is not a big deal. The worst that happens is they say no.

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.....If you place on private property such as a parking lot, GET PERMISSION. You just need to ask. It is not a big deal. The worst that happens is they say no.

 

Actually the BEST that happens is they say no. :unsure:B);)B)

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I don't know of any property that is not owned or managed by someone.

 

But there is public property and private property. I will let you figure out the definition of each and as to whether or not specific permission is required.

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I don't know of any property that is not owned or managed by someone.

 

But there is public property and private property. I will let you figure out the definition of each and as to whether or not specific permission is required.

 

Do I really need to step in here, take the public/private property debate private, thank you.

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here's the thing.....Since i'm the one who planted the cache. I saw a big empty parking lot. I did NOT see any signage that said private property, or no tresspassing. It is a regular old parking lot, like the MANY i have been to to find caches. I did not think that a parking lot was considered private property in the middle of the city. I guess now I know.

 

what I am curious about is how the cache was found and reported. The last person to find it also reported in his log that it was discovered and that police were involved....blown up etc. That same person has been a geocache member since 2008 but only logged my cache as a find, and reported that it is under investigation. only my one cache in his list of finds.

 

also.....that cache was far away from the building, 110 ft or more, buried deep in a fir tree.....one of 3 beside each other. I have had trouble looking for the cache myself when replacing the logsheet.

 

Like i said before, we have all done caches , especially urban ones, that are in parking lots, and children's parks etc.......Not even realizing that this is private property. All it takes is one person to see you caching, and alarms go off.

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what I am curious about is how the cache was found and reported. The last person to find it also reported in his log that it was discovered and that police were involved....blown up etc. That same person has been a geocache member since 2008 but only logged my cache as a find, and reported that it is under investigation. only my one cache in his list of finds.

 

 

They probably meant to post a note and hit Found by mistake. Have you tried contacting them by email?

 

On a more humorous note, if you delete their log, they will have a tough time proving they found it. Unless they are a member of the bomb squad. :unsure:B);)

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I don't know of any property that is not owned or managed by someone.

 

But there is public property and private property. I will let you figure out the definition of each and as to whether or not specific permission is required.

 

Do I really need to step in here, take the public/private property debate private, thank you.

 

Are we allowed to discuss the aspect of permission?

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I did not think that a parking lot was considered private property in the middle of the city. I guess now I know.

 

It certainly could not hurt if Groundspeak mentioned this particular point in the "Getting Started" page.

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Do I really need to step in here, take the public/private property debate private, thank you.

 

why, its part of the guidelines, no? :ph34r:

 

 

what I am curious about is how the cache was found and reported. The last person to find it also reported in his log that it was discovered and that police were involved....blown up etc. That same person has been a geocache member since 2008 but only logged my cache as a find, and reported that it is under investigation. only my one cache in his list of finds.

 

 

very simple, sock puppet accounts of existing members that don't have the guts to spill the beans under their regular caching name

 

happens too often and the funny thing is apparently "sock puppet" accounts are not allowed by GS but they continue to exist

 

4. Sock puppet accounts are not permitted. A sock puppet is an account made on an internet message board by a person who already has an account for the purpose of posting anonymously. Use your own account for posting personal opinions. Posts from known sock puppet accounts may be deleted and both the puppet and actual account may be banned from using the services of Groundspeak.
Edited by t4e

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what I am curious about is how the cache was found and reported. The last person to find it also reported in his log that it was discovered and that police were involved....blown up etc. That same person has been a geocache member since 2008 but only logged my cache as a find, and reported that it is under investigation. only my one cache in his list of finds.

 

 

very simple, sock puppet accounts of existing members that don't have the guts to spill the beans under their regular caching name

 

 

I've seen way too many regular cachers who report an issue, and then get crucified for it by the locals (instead of the cache placer). Rather than seeing it as an opportunity to keep Geocaching in a positive light, by having poorly executed caches addressed it's viewed as being overbearing.

 

A lot of cachers will post a few Needs Archived, get a few nasty emails and then decide not to hit that button any more. For some reason there is a stigma placed on people who use the Needs Maintenance / Needs Archived log types. Far easier to just log the smiley, and keep your trap shut. No animosity at event caches, no angry email exchanges. Nobody running around copying your "Needs Archived" logs mockingly into several posts in the Groundspeak forums, out of context.

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here's the thing.....Since i'm the one who planted the cache. I saw a big empty parking lot. I did NOT see any signage that said private property, or no tresspassing. It is a regular old parking lot, like the MANY i have been to to find caches. I did not think that a parking lot was considered private property in the middle of the city. I guess now I know.

 

If I recall correctly, there was signage on the Argentia Ave driveway side that made me pause for thought. I don't remember the exact wording but it was something along the lines of "Private Parking for WalMart employees only". I stopped for a moment there, then continued on and parked in the "Visitor Parking", as I figured the cache owner had permission here.

 

also.....that cache was far away from the building, 110 ft or more, buried deep in a fir tree.....one of 3 beside each other. I have had trouble looking for the cache myself when replacing the logsheet.

 

The one problem here, was that it was in full view of the main entrance of the building. It was in a direct line of sight for people who were exiting the office, and literally right beside employees cars. All it took was for the person parked closest to the cache to be leaving work when a cacher was there and alarm bells would be going off in that employee's mind.

 

While the cache is well hidden in those pines, the cacher standing BESIDE the pines is about half the size of that tree, and quite easy to notice when say, reviewing security tapes (or walking to your car). The cacher, who is going back and forth studying these trees most certainly looks out of place once noticed.

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what I am curious about is how the cache was found and reported. The last person to find it also reported in his log that it was discovered and that police were involved....blown up etc. That same person has been a geocache member since 2008 but only logged my cache as a find, and reported that it is under investigation. only my one cache in his list of finds.

 

The member since 2008 is odd. I have seen the 1 cache find posting a find/note/needs archived in the past - usually the property owner who discovered the cache sets up a Geocaching.com account to complain about it. But the 2008 thing is weird.

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I have no problem with logs that post a legitimate concern and do it respectfully. I have seen a few logs that were not exactly the most respectful and were done on caches where there was nothing wrong with the cache. Just because a a few cachers can not find a cache does not mean it is not there. The same goes for no trespassing signs. I have seen a few caches receive complaints about crossing no trespassing signs or jumping a fence. There very well could be another way in that does not require trespassing or fence jumping. I hate to see logs from a cacher that posts that they crossed several no trespassing signs to get the the cache, claimed their smiley, and then complained about it.

 

There is no need for a sock puppet account. Simply contact the owner politely and respectively and you will probably get the same treatment back. Publicly bash a cache and or owner and you will receive the same treatment back. If you don't feel comfortable going that route, you can always contact a reviewer and have them contact the owner.

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