+Scubasonic Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 So here it is a cache gets published and several cachers run out to get the FTF. the cache owner however had not placed the cache in it's hidy spot before it was published which I will add is a most obvious spot, even a new cacher would have found within a minute or 2, but be that as it may a very good caching friend of mine was there fist on the scene within minutes looked and could not find it along with others that showed up after him, and it was quickly figured out that it had not been placed. So as the day wears on the cache owner finally posts a note apologizing and says that the cache is now in place so I went and got the FTF. My buddy showed up a few days later made the find and posted a normal post online but logged it on his profile as a FTF, when I talked to him he said it was because he looked exactly where the cache was, when it was published, and he is right so he is saying because if it was there he would have been FTF.......what's your call on it. Scubasonic Quote Link to comment
+Chokecherry Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 FTF is not really recognized by the site. Just by the individuals. I usually let other people do the FTF beta testing of a cache before I'll go out and do it because of situations like this. That being said, maybe you and your buddy can find an agreement between first to beta test and second to beta test or something. Quote Link to comment
+Gamaliel Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Sorry he wasted a trip thanks to a negligent cache owner, but the fact is that you found it first and you signed the log first. Whether or not he would have found it is irrelevant. Since FTF doesn't mean anything, really, he can claim whatever he wants, or you can both claim it, or neither of you. Whatever happens, I wouldn't refrain from claiming it just because he wants to claim it. Quote Link to comment
+t4e Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 well, to me is the same as logging a find on a cache that is gone and saying "i would have found it if it was there", which BTW its a real situations its different in a group, we go in groups here and we all share in the FTF but in this case i think its rightfully yours since you were the first to actually sign the log with all that said, i wouldn't make too much fuss about it Quote Link to comment
GOF's Sock Puppet Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Not that it really matters but I'd say the first one to actually find the cache is the first to find it. Can't find what isn't there. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Personally, all FTF questions bore me, at best, but since you asked... who found the cache first? Not the hiding spot, but the cache? Who signed the log first? Isn't this a no-brainer? Quote Link to comment
+Eagle and the nuts Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 The first name in the log is the FTF, but you will never convince your friend of this. He can play the game any way he wants. If he really feels he earned the FTF, let him add it to his stats. But, since he didn't find it, how does he know he was the first one to not find it? How many other caches has he logged, but not found?Most cachers will agree that you earned it, so you can put it in your stats too. Groundspeack doesn't care. Quote Link to comment
+4 and The Dog Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 ..what's your call on it. Scubasonic If my Auntie had wheels she'd be a bus. Fact is, you found it first, you signed the log first, it's yours for the claiming. Based on your friends logic, we could scour the land here for nice hiddey holes, then wait, and wait, and when a cacher puts a cache in there, we'll claim first to find as we actually spotted the hole in 1786!!!! Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 If he wanted it that bad I would delete my find, go back out and resign the log, post a 'new' Found it. I know I would because I've done it. (And if I remember correctly that whole situation prompted some themed caches by a few others) If I'm FTF on anything it certainly wasn't because I rushed out there. Any debate is not worth the angst, if they want it, they got it. I couldn't care less. Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Yeah. I wasted an hour on one of those 'cache published, but not hidden yet' fiascos. I might have found it if it had been there. But it wasn't there, so I didn't find it. That's a DNF. (And some rather unkind thoughts directed at the CO!) First to find the cache and sign the log is FTF. Your 'friend' might be FTDNF, but is definitely NOT FTF. Quote Link to comment
+roziecakes Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 In my opinion whoever signed the log first is the FTF, so that would be you, Scubasonic. But, if your friend doesn't want to budge, and he is your friend, I'd just let it go this time. Then again, I'm not particularly attached to FTFs myself. Quote Link to comment
+buttaskotch Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Your buddy's fake FTF is in line with Generation ME logic. I woulda, shoulda, coulda, but didn't. Though FTFS aren't officially recognized, he didn't sign the log first, therefore he is second or whereever he is in the log. But again, these Generation ME players all say they play the game their way. So let him "cheat" his FTF and go on and about your day Quote Link to comment
+Scubasonic Posted August 23, 2010 Author Share Posted August 23, 2010 I just thought I would bring it to a discussion point, I do realize that Groundspeak does not recognize FTFs but within the small network that does FTFs I just wanted a consensus. Not he didn't post it online that he got the FTF just his profile Page. As I said he is a very good friend, guess everyone rolls differently......... Scubasonic Quote Link to comment
+Scubasonic Posted August 23, 2010 Author Share Posted August 23, 2010 Sorry he wasted a trip thanks to a negligent cache owner. With over 970+ FTFs this has happened to me many times (cache published without the physical cache being there) but I figure it goes with the territory when you go for FTFs. Scubasonic Quote Link to comment
+roziecakes Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Sorry he wasted a trip thanks to a negligent cache owner. With over 970+ FTFs this has happened to me many times (cache published without the physical cache being there) but I figure it goes with the territory when you go for FTFs. Scubasonic That's true, you never know what you're going to get... Quote Link to comment
+SwineFlew Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Personal, I would try to see if I can co-ftf with your friend. Its just a game and you get more flies with honey than vinegar. Quote Link to comment
+Scubasonic Posted August 24, 2010 Author Share Posted August 24, 2010 Personal, I would try to see if I can co-ftf with your friend. Its just a game and you get more flies with honey than vinegar. He is a great guy niether one of us really care just wanted to see what others thought. Scubasonic Quote Link to comment
Luckless Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Many folks here will band together when they meet at the cache location and share FTF honors. I really don't know how many FTFs I have. I only know that I have found some and that's good enough for me. There are others around here who can tell you precisely how many they have found. More important for me is to beat the local FTF hound to the cache so that he finds me contentedly signing the log when he gets there. Nah...nah...nahnah...nah :oP You're friends, you were first to find, he was first not to find- so share the FTF. Quote Link to comment
+ShortyBond Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 I don't let people claim my caches unless they sign the logs. Not that i check up on them, but for example, one guy logged it as a find and said, "Found the spot, but i don't think the cache is there." Turns out the cache was there and he just assumed it was the spot. Regardless, i deleted his log. If its not there, its a DNF. (Besides, how else is the CO supposed to know to disable it to fix it if you log it when its not there??) Anyway, i agree i wouldn't make too big a fuss over it. I am an FTF hound and love them, but its not THAT big of a deal. If anything, agree to log Co-FTF. Quote Link to comment
+SweetPea&Crew Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 The first time we logged FTF was on a cache that had a virgin logsheet when we signed. We got home to discover that another cacher had claimed the FTF on it by virtue of having found the container, but they had been unable to open it to sign the log (it was a bison tube). We let the CO make the call on it, and he decided in our favor. We were hot for a FTF back then, but our interest lately has waned. The whole FTF race thing just gets so contentious sometimes, and we cache for fun. We did, though, log FTF on one just yesterday, but that one had sat in the woods (in 90+ degree heat, at the end of a short hike) for two days unfound. We were actually surprised to find a blank logsheet. Quote Link to comment
Andronicus Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 I had that exact experience, but was the FTAaLItCHP (First To Arrive and Look In the Cache Hiddy Place). I didin't call it a FTF. But that is just me. Nelson (of Nelsoning fame) would let your friend have a "technical" FTF. Quote Link to comment
+Kryten Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Locating the empty place where a cache is going to be is no different to locating the empty place where a cache once was. Neither of them are finds due to the small matter of the log not being signed. The last "F" in "FTF" does after all stand for "Find" and your buddy didn't get one. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 What's your call on it. Since you were the first person to locate the cache, any FTF "honors" must go to you. If your friend's find corresponds with another number that starts with "F", (fifth, fortieth, etc), I guess he could claim FTF also. Quote Link to comment
+rob3k Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Personally, all FTF questions bore me, at best, but since you asked... who found the cache first? Not the hiding spot, but the cache? Who signed the log first? Isn't this a no-brainer? Agree with this. But, I also wouldn't worry about publicly calling the guy out about it. Quote Link to comment
+lachupa Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 I'd let it go and just be smug in my firstness without worrying about him. Does it bother me that both UGA and UVA THINK they were the first public university in the country. No, not at all because I know it was UNC so who cares what they think. Quote Link to comment
+Stargazer22 Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 This is a great example of why the site does not care about FTFs or track them. Way too much silliness over who "claims" what. You know that you found it first, does anyone else's opinion really matter? Quote Link to comment
+Mark+Karen Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Why do people do that anyway? You need to put the cache there to make sure the location is good anyway? Personally I've done somewhat of the opposite that one of my caches was in place for nearly 3 weeks before I set it to be published on the site. Quote Link to comment
Luckless Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 The way I see it neither you nor your friend were at fault to log an FTF. The error was on the part of the cache owner. In order to get it in the queue for approval from the reviewers the owner must check a box stating that the cache is active. Now how can a cache be active if it is not there? The owner didn't have it there so share the FTF and go out and find some more. Quote Link to comment
MisterEFQ Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 But again, these Generation ME players all say they play the game their way. Ummm no. Stop generalizing, it proves nothing. Quote Link to comment
+BulldogBlitz Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 there is only solution. Quote Link to comment
+bflentje Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 So here it is a cache gets published and several cachers run out to get the FTF. the cache owner however had not placed the cache in it's hidy spot before it was published which I will add is a most obvious spot, even a new cacher would have found within a minute or 2, but be that as it may a very good caching friend of mine was there fist on the scene within minutes looked and could not find it along with others that showed up after him, and it was quickly figured out that it had not been placed. So as the day wears on the cache owner finally posts a note apologizing and says that the cache is now in place so I went and got the FTF. My buddy showed up a few days later made the find and posted a normal post online but logged it on his profile as a FTF, when I talked to him he said it was because he looked exactly where the cache was, when it was published, and he is right so he is saying because if it was there he would have been FTF.......what's your call on it. Scubasonic I'd log it FTF and just predate your find one day before your friend so you're top of the list. Beyond that, I wouldn't worry about it as your friend will just end up whining or have animosity towards you. I do agree about the ME generation.. it is more prevalent than you think. Quote Link to comment
+LukeTrocity Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Your the FTF. That is all. Quote Link to comment
+Brooklyn51 Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 How about VFTF. a Virtual First To Find? If you have a pretty good idea where the cache is, you actually could do those from home without all that pesky driving out to the cache site. Quote Link to comment
+deercreekth Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 At least the CO acknowledged that the cache had not been placed yet. You found it first. Don't worry about what your friend does in his profile. I was FTF on a couple of caches a couple of days before a group of people came through and grabbed a bunch of new caches. They were FTF on a few, but I noticed that one cacher claimed to be FTF on the ones I found before them. That's the beauty of the unofficialness of FTF. Quote Link to comment
+buttaskotch Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 But again, these Generation ME players all say they play the game their way. Ummm no. Stop generalizing, it proves nothing. What are you saying? It is my opinion that people in the Generation ME play their way. If you are offended, oh well. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 It is my opinion that people in the Generation ME play their way. People in Generation We and Generation You also play their own way. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Personal, I would try to see if I can co-ftf with your friend. Its just a game and you get more flies with honey than vinegar. Has Mythbusters taken that one on yet? Quote Link to comment
MisterEFQ Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 But again, these Generation ME players all say they play the game their way. Ummm no. Stop generalizing, it proves nothing. What are you saying? It is my opinion that people in the Generation ME play their way. If you are offended, oh well. What are you saying? It is my opinion that people who try to make points using baseless generalizations prove nothing. If you are offended, oh well. Quote Link to comment
+GeoGeeBee Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Personal, I would try to see if I can co-ftf with your friend. Its just a game and you get more flies with honey than vinegar. Has Mythbusters taken that one on yet? They aren't likely to tackle that one, as there's nothing for them to blow up. Quote Link to comment
+geodarts Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 At least the CO acknowledged that the cache had not been placed yet. You found it first. Don't worry about what your friend does in his profile. I was FTF on a couple of caches a couple of days before a group of people came through and grabbed a bunch of new caches. They were FTF on a few, but I noticed that one cacher claimed to be FTF on the ones I found before them. That's the beauty of the unofficialness of FTF. I don't use the initials on any log, which simplifies matters a great deal, but I have to admit that I am tempted to start using them on every log that I write except for the ones that were blank because I happened to be the first one there, But the consequences of something like that could be too far reaching for me to risk, it could bring down caching itself by interjecting an undefineable element that subtly changes the entire game without anybody realizing it. (Those who have read the Illuminatti trilogy will recall what happened when the Midget left unobtrussive signs, asking people not to spit, in locations like elevators of large corporate buildings. It created chaos, which is not altogether a bad thing if you are a Discordian, but the same effect could happen here.) So if someone wants to claim an FTF, even if four or five people want to claim an FTF, I have no problem with it. The more the merrier. But some thought should be given to the larger ramifications. Quote Link to comment
+TABjuggler Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 You got the FTF, tell your friend he is wrong. I had one recently where I would have gotten the FTF if the container had been placed, but since it wasn't I missed out on the FTF. I would have gotten another if a homeless man wasn't sleeping at ground zero, but since I wasn't I missed out on the FTF. You were the first to sign the log, so you were the FTF. Quote Link to comment
+Borst68 Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 (edited) I found a really cool place to hide a cache the other day. Now if someone will just put a cache there, I can claim FTF! FTF = Name of the guy who signed first in the log book. Period. Edited August 25, 2010 by Borst68 Quote Link to comment
+brslk Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 If it was my friend I would let it slide. What's more important? the friendship or bragging rights? When you or I die.... will we remember FTFs or friends? Even if he is a casual friend. Quote Link to comment
+hukilaulau Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Were you the first to find it? Yep. Can he also claim FTF if he wants to? Sure! Can I claim FTF just because I took the trouble to waste some time on this thread, even though I don't even know where the cache is? You Betcha! Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 I think your buddy was first to DNF. But if he wants to call himself FTF who are we to disallow that delusion? ' Quote Link to comment
+bflentje Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 I found a really cool place to hide a cache the other day. Now if someone will just put a cache there, I can claim FTF! FTF = Name of the guy who signed first in the log book. Period. Yep.. that's the way it should be if it were official. But I break away and go one more step.. It should be the FIRST signature on the paper log ONCE the cache has been published. Beta-testers or tag-a-longs that sign FTF bug me. But not to the point where I'd start a thread over it. Quote Link to comment
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