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Cell phone VS Handheld GPS


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I'm a fairly avid smartphone/tablet user, and also own an Oregon 300.

 

I almost never use my phone for caching, and probably never will.

1) Battery life - Having a phone "always-on" for hike tracking/viewing imagery/etc will kill its battery REALLY fast. Having a backup battery to swap out is not feasible - expensive and device-specific. My Oregon uses cheap and standard NiMH AAs

 

2) Maps stored locally - If I'm in an area without cell phone reception, the phone becomes useless. Garmin's desire to milk you for extra money does make the unit seem less attractive at first, but since the IMG format has been mostly reverse engineered and the JNX format has been fully REd, there are PLENTY of free map sources for Garmin units.

 

3) Superior GPS performance. The GPS solutions in cell phones are cheap with weak correlators. Their raw performance is on par with or worse than old standalone GPS units from a decade ago. (my eMap locks faster than any smartphone I've used when out of coverage). When in a phone coverage area, the crutches of SUPL, time/location injection, and ephemeride preload (Qualcomm XTRA or similar) make the phone seem almost as good to an end user as a dedicated GPS - but if those crutches go away, the phone's GPS will show its true (vastly inferior) colors. Also, as far as ephemeride preload - a GPS with an MTKv2 chipset (Unfortunately, while there was a press release saying Garmin and MediaTek signed a supplier agreement, it sounds like the GPSMAP units are still using Cartesio - maybe MTKv2 is only in Nuvis?) will smoke a fully augmented smartphone in terms of lock times even without ephemeride preloads. The ephemeride caching implemented by the Cartesio (Oregons, DeLorme PN-40 and maybe 60) is a good middle ground. Similarly, MTKv2 chipsets smoke smartphones in terms of sensitivity. (Cartesio not so much)

 

3a) As others have said, reported accuracy means nothing. The only things that mean anything are: Measured actual errors/variances from a known position, and PDOP. DOP numbers are the only accuracy measure a GPS unit can give you that isn't a guess.

 

4) Magnetic compass performance - the magnetic compasses in many phones are flaky and inconsistent. (Nearly useless in my tablet...) Phone manufacturers focus on form factor and phone functionality - compass performance is a barely tested afterthought. Even Apple focuses only on the user interface and form factor and doesn't even care about phone performance. (The iPhone 4's antenna design is simply inexcusable. And yes, I am an RF engineer with antenna design experience - designing an antenna where the element is routinely contacted by human skin with no insulation whatsoever is dumb, dumb, dumb.)

 

5) Durability. I've dropped/bumped my GPS in many situations that would destroy a phone without the Oregon taking any damage. (This is admittedly part of the reason for smaller screens - the larger the screen, the easier it is to break/harder it is to protect.) Same for if it rains or there is any water spray - even light spray can kill some phones, and most phone's warranties void even in high humidity due to the immersion sensors being a liiitle too sensitive.

 

Not to be a stickler but:

1. Ok i get that but if you wanted to you could get an extended battery

2. Ok smartphones have a ton of free offline maps. Try Locus on android for every map you could ever think of

3. I dont really see what your saying here. Yes phones use agps, thats an advantage...and I don't have that chipset.

3a. DFX's test shown a 3 foot difference...is that a lot in consumer grade GPS? hmmm

4. Also disagree, Dunno what to say

5. Otterbox

 

Are you using only apple products? If that's the case maybe thats your problem?

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Well finished the hike, with an iPhone 4 used for live tracking and Geocaching. At the end of the 12 hour hike my iPhone has 40% battery left.

 

I remembered to turn off WiFi, Bluetooth and push. Didn't actually need that USB battery I brought. Same thing as an extra battery so I really don't buy that notion that an external battery is a required feature on a smartphone anymore.

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Well, I'm one of them. I do have an Android Motorola super smart phone with several Geo apps on it. I also have a Garmin Oregon 450. To me (and I have used the Android to find a lot of caches just to compare) the Android phone while being a wonderful piece of technology is not even close to the Oregon GPS for geocaching. This is not guessing, this is from using them both. I wouldn't even have to think about it if I had to choose which one to use to cache with.

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Let me throw everyone a curve ball. What about Apple and other apps tracking your location? What of the privacy issues?

 

There'a a thread for that

 

But if you're worried about the fact that a smartphone has a file on it tracking where you've been, that anyone with physical access to the device can retrieve .... you should probably know that most GPS units store a tracklog on the device and can be retrieved by anyone with physical access to the device. Take a look in /Garmin/GPX/Archived sometime if you have a modern Garmin GPS.

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Let me throw everyone a curve ball. What about Apple and other apps tracking your location? What of the privacy issues?

 

There'a a thread for that

 

But if you're worried about the fact that a smartphone has a file on it tracking where you've been, that anyone with physical access to the device can retrieve .... you should probably know that most GPS units store a tracklog on the device and can be retrieved by anyone with physical access to the device. Take a look in /Garmin/GPX/Archived sometime if you have a modern Garmin GPS.

 

Not what I meant. I know what tracks are. What I am talking about is a phone, manufacturer, app maker, hacker, etc... having remote access to your data.

http://tech-buzz.net/2011/04/20/apple-tracking-user-movements-with-the-iphone-and-ipad-3g/

 

Yes someone could technically get this off my gps, but they would first need to get physical access which is a whole lot harder if the person keeps a close eye on his electronics.

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Let me throw everyone a curve ball. What about Apple and other apps tracking your location? What of the privacy issues?

 

There'a a thread for that

 

But if you're worried about the fact that a smartphone has a file on it tracking where you've been, that anyone with physical access to the device can retrieve .... you should probably know that most GPS units store a tracklog on the device and can be retrieved by anyone with physical access to the device. Take a look in /Garmin/GPX/Archived sometime if you have a modern Garmin GPS.

 

Not what I meant. I know what tracks are. What I am talking about is a phone, manufacturer, app maker, hacker, etc... having remote access to your data.

http://tech-buzz.net/2011/04/20/apple-tracking-user-movements-with-the-iphone-and-ipad-3g/

 

Yes someone could technically get this off my gps, but they would first need to get physical access which is a whole lot harder if the person keeps a close eye on his electronics.

Again use the other thread to discuss that. Derailing the topic will cause a moderator to close the thread.

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I must say, the iphone has allowed us to find 35 caches so far, so I can't complain.

The iphone does have a lag time in updating your position - its something to get used to.

 

However - doing recent testing - our Nuvi 660 seems to be more accurate and faster in terms of getting accurate coordinates for hiding a cache. We've learned to use the Nuvi to get coordinates or verify the iphone coordinates for hiding a cache. The Nuvi is older and I wouldn't use it to find a cache (haven't tried).

 

Just yesterday something we also learned - these iphones don't work at all if you don't have a good cell signal. The GPS & cell signal work hand-n-hand (apparently). When out in remote areas with only 1 bar (Verizon), it sometimes just sits there and doesn't do anything. My husbands phone had to be rebooted. We ended up driving to find better cell signal and finding caches in those areas.

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That may be a CDMA vs GSM thing. I have yet to see a CDMA based smartphone that handles low signal well in terms of battery. I have owned three of them - HTC Vogue, HTC Rhodium and Blackberry Tour 9630.

 

All three devices in an area without network coverage would crank up their transmit power and pretty much flatlined the battery in an hour or less. The HTC devices tended to crash more often in low coverage too.

 

Both my iPhone 4 GSM and my Blackberry Bold 9700 GSM are well behaved in low signal and provide accurate GPS location locks too.

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Just to add my 2c.

 

I'm new to the hobby, and only started when i realised that my phone (i5700) had GPS and apps available. Much as standalones might be much better/more accurate/rugged/better battery life, the droid got me started, and I'm sure a lot more people are the same as myself, we're not too interested (yet) in what's the best, we just want a good excuse for a long walk. So far we've only found a handful of caches, and already discovered the phone isn't much good under trees....but we've found every cache we've set out looking for and it's results that count.

Surely more people like me starting the hobby has to be a good thing? I really don't care too much (yet) if my device is ~1m less accurate than a standalone.

 

Seems to me using my phone is a great way to start, if we decide to take it more seriously (and maybe meet fellow cachers) then we might find that we want something better, but for now it's a (virtually) 0 cost solution for us...excepting the 2 new batteries I've just ordered to overcome the poor battery life issue...£7.60 with a usb charger seems a good investment.

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That may be a CDMA vs GSM thing. I have yet to see a CDMA based smartphone that handles low signal well in terms of battery. I have owned three of them - HTC Vogue, HTC Rhodium and Blackberry Tour 9630.

 

All three devices in an area without network coverage would crank up their transmit power and pretty much flatlined the battery in an hour or less. The HTC devices tended to crash more often in low coverage too.

 

Both my iPhone 4 GSM and my Blackberry Bold 9700 GSM are well behaved in low signal and provide accurate GPS location locks too.

 

I read in another thread (thought to mention it here) to turn off wifi & push notifications - that it might help with battery longevity. And in low cell signal areas, turn off the data & wifi so the phone only uses the GPS. This will require you to save all the cache information via 'favorites' prior to going out in the field and saving your log entries and sending them later.

 

I'm definately going to try this the next time we're out for a full day and in remote areas. Makes sense ....

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Interesting. I was in an area with only slight "edge" signal over the weekend with my iPhone (AT&T) and was still able to get faster page loads than my boyfriend who had slight 3G signal through Verizon on his Droid.

 

I turned off 3G and data roaming when I wasn't actively using the phone to navigate to caches and still had over 50% battery life at the end of a long day of caching.

 

The two of us only had issues on 2 caches which were in areas completely devoid of service. Solution - we had saved all cache data for the series of caches we were seeking to the Droid - took the coords and plugged them into our eTrex.

 

The phones, even in remote areas, are still preference number one with the eTrex as a convenient back-up.

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I'm a fairly avid smartphone/tablet user, and also own an Oregon 300.

 

I almost never use my phone for caching, and probably never will.

1) Battery life - Having a phone "always-on" for hike tracking/viewing imagery/etc will kill its battery REALLY fast. Having a backup battery to swap out is not feasible - expensive and device-specific. My Oregon uses cheap and standard NiMH AAs

 

2) Maps stored locally - If I'm in an area without cell phone reception, the phone becomes useless. Garmin's desire to milk you for extra money does make the unit seem less attractive at first, but since the IMG format has been mostly reverse engineered and the JNX format has been fully REd, there are PLENTY of free map sources for Garmin units.

 

3) Superior GPS performance. The GPS solutions in cell phones are cheap with weak correlators. Their raw performance is on par with or worse than old standalone GPS units from a decade ago. (my eMap locks faster than any smartphone I've used when out of coverage). When in a phone coverage area, the crutches of SUPL, time/location injection, and ephemeride preload (Qualcomm XTRA or similar) make the phone seem almost as good to an end user as a dedicated GPS - but if those crutches go away, the phone's GPS will show its true (vastly inferior) colors. Also, as far as ephemeride preload - a GPS with an MTKv2 chipset (Unfortunately, while there was a press release saying Garmin and MediaTek signed a supplier agreement, it sounds like the GPSMAP units are still using Cartesio - maybe MTKv2 is only in Nuvis?) will smoke a fully augmented smartphone in terms of lock times even without ephemeride preloads. The ephemeride caching implemented by the Cartesio (Oregons, DeLorme PN-40 and maybe 60) is a good middle ground. Similarly, MTKv2 chipsets smoke smartphones in terms of sensitivity. (Cartesio not so much)

 

3a) As others have said, reported accuracy means nothing. The only things that mean anything are: Measured actual errors/variances from a known position, and PDOP. DOP numbers are the only accuracy measure a GPS unit can give you that isn't a guess.

 

4) Magnetic compass performance - the magnetic compasses in many phones are flaky and inconsistent. (Nearly useless in my tablet...) Phone manufacturers focus on form factor and phone functionality - compass performance is a barely tested afterthought. Even Apple focuses only on the user interface and form factor and doesn't even care about phone performance. (The iPhone 4's antenna design is simply inexcusable. And yes, I am an RF engineer with antenna design experience - designing an antenna where the element is routinely contacted by human skin with no insulation whatsoever is dumb, dumb, dumb.)

 

5) Durability. I've dropped/bumped my GPS in many situations that would destroy a phone without the Oregon taking any damage. (This is admittedly part of the reason for smaller screens - the larger the screen, the easier it is to break/harder it is to protect.) Same for if it rains or there is any water spray - even light spray can kill some phones, and most phone's warranties void even in high humidity due to the immersion sensors being a liiitle too sensitive.

 

Not to be a stickler but:

1. Ok i get that but if you wanted to you could get an extended battery

2. Ok smartphones have a ton of free offline maps. Try Locus on android for every map you could ever think of

3. I dont really see what your saying here. Yes phones use agps, thats an advantage...and I don't have that chipset.

3a. DFX's test shown a 3 foot difference...is that a lot in consumer grade GPS? hmmm

4. Also disagree, Dunno what to say

5. Otterbox

 

Are you using only apple products? If that's the case maybe thats your problem?

1) Even an extended battery can't compare to just swapping AAs

2) Nearly every offline mapping app I've seen for smartphones used saved raster maps - horrifically space-inefficient

3) I'm saying that cell phones have such poor GPS receivers that they NEED AGPS to come close to the performance of even a not-so-hot dedicated chipset like the Cartesio. Without AGPS, they have lock times and performance on par with decade-old standalones like my old Garmin eMap. This holds true for older Qualcomm MSM7200, and newer Snapdragons - I've tried both. Not an Apple product user - I hate their walled-garden approach and the fact that they clearly choose visual form factor over performance and functionality - I would expect Apples to have substandard GPS performance too considering how incompetent their RF engineers are. Anyone who places a transmit antenna element where it is easy for human skin to come into direct contact with it is an idiot. Even worse to place it where human skin will be routinely in contact with it.

3a) Was that in the clear? - in the clear, everyone does pretty well these days. What's important is how far downhill things go when you're in a canyon or in tree coverage. Last time I went hiking in Watkins Glen State Park, the cell phone GPS lost coverage shortly after entering the gorge, my standalone GPS went downhill in accuracy but was still usable and maintained lock.

4) Don't know what to say - my experience with an Android tablet, for example, is that it routinely had the compass pointing the wrong way and there was no way to calibrate it.

5) Um, you can't use the phone when it's in an Otterbox.

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3a) Was that in the clear? - in the clear, everyone does pretty well these days. What's important is how far downhill things go when you're in a canyon or in tree coverage. Last time I went hiking in Watkins Glen State Park, the cell phone GPS lost coverage shortly after entering the gorge, my standalone GPS went downhill in accuracy but was still usable and maintained lock.

 

Yep, totally out in the open. Your conclusion and experience is the same as mine was. I couldn't be bothered to repeat the test in a more challenging environment yet (and probably won't ever).

 

But it's a useless discussion really. When the phone reports a better accuracy than the GPSr, the smartphone users will take it for fact and won't question it. When the phone shows a smaller distance to the coordinates at the cache site than the GPSr on one occasion, then the phone must be more accurate. When it's the other way around, then the coordinates must be off, or maybe there was a transformer around that threw the phone's GPS off. (I'm not making any of this up btw.) When you do a proper test that shows how the GPSr performs better than the phone, their conlusion is either that the test was "not conclusive" or that the performance is "about the same" anyway. It doesn't matter what you say really.

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I'm a fairly avid smartphone/tablet user, and also own an Oregon 300.

 

I almost never use my phone for caching, and probably never will.

1) Battery life - Having a phone "always-on" for hike tracking/viewing imagery/etc will kill its battery REALLY fast. Having a backup battery to swap out is not feasible - expensive and device-specific. My Oregon uses cheap and standard NiMH AAs

 

2) Maps stored locally - If I'm in an area without cell phone reception, the phone becomes useless. Garmin's desire to milk you for extra money does make the unit seem less attractive at first, but since the IMG format has been mostly reverse engineered and the JNX format has been fully REd, there are PLENTY of free map sources for Garmin units.

 

3) Superior GPS performance. The GPS solutions in cell phones are cheap with weak correlators. Their raw performance is on par with or worse than old standalone GPS units from a decade ago. (my eMap locks faster than any smartphone I've used when out of coverage). When in a phone coverage area, the crutches of SUPL, time/location injection, and ephemeride preload (Qualcomm XTRA or similar) make the phone seem almost as good to an end user as a dedicated GPS - but if those crutches go away, the phone's GPS will show its true (vastly inferior) colors. Also, as far as ephemeride preload - a GPS with an MTKv2 chipset (Unfortunately, while there was a press release saying Garmin and MediaTek signed a supplier agreement, it sounds like the GPSMAP units are still using Cartesio - maybe MTKv2 is only in Nuvis?) will smoke a fully augmented smartphone in terms of lock times even without ephemeride preloads. The ephemeride caching implemented by the Cartesio (Oregons, DeLorme PN-40 and maybe 60) is a good middle ground. Similarly, MTKv2 chipsets smoke smartphones in terms of sensitivity. (Cartesio not so much)

 

3a) As others have said, reported accuracy means nothing. The only things that mean anything are: Measured actual errors/variances from a known position, and PDOP. DOP numbers are the only accuracy measure a GPS unit can give you that isn't a guess.

 

4) Magnetic compass performance - the magnetic compasses in many phones are flaky and inconsistent. (Nearly useless in my tablet...) Phone manufacturers focus on form factor and phone functionality - compass performance is a barely tested afterthought. Even Apple focuses only on the user interface and form factor and doesn't even care about phone performance. (The iPhone 4's antenna design is simply inexcusable. And yes, I am an RF engineer with antenna design experience - designing an antenna where the element is routinely contacted by human skin with no insulation whatsoever is dumb, dumb, dumb.)

 

5) Durability. I've dropped/bumped my GPS in many situations that would destroy a phone without the Oregon taking any damage. (This is admittedly part of the reason for smaller screens - the larger the screen, the easier it is to break/harder it is to protect.) Same for if it rains or there is any water spray - even light spray can kill some phones, and most phone's warranties void even in high humidity due to the immersion sensors being a liiitle too sensitive.

 

Not to be a stickler but:

1. Ok i get that but if you wanted to you could get an extended battery

2. Ok smartphones have a ton of free offline maps. Try Locus on android for every map you could ever think of

3. I dont really see what your saying here. Yes phones use agps, thats an advantage...and I don't have that chipset.

3a. DFX's test shown a 3 foot difference...is that a lot in consumer grade GPS? hmmm

4. Also disagree, Dunno what to say

5. Otterbox

 

Are you using only apple products? If that's the case maybe thats your problem?

1) Even an extended battery can't compare to just swapping AAs

2) Nearly every offline mapping app I've seen for smartphones used saved raster maps - horrifically space-inefficient

3) I'm saying that cell phones have such poor GPS receivers that they NEED AGPS to come close to the performance of even a not-so-hot dedicated chipset like the Cartesio. Without AGPS, they have lock times and performance on par with decade-old standalones like my old Garmin eMap. This holds true for older Qualcomm MSM7200, and newer Snapdragons - I've tried both. Not an Apple product user - I hate their walled-garden approach and the fact that they clearly choose visual form factor over performance and functionality - I would expect Apples to have substandard GPS performance too considering how incompetent their RF engineers are. Anyone who places a transmit antenna element where it is easy for human skin to come into direct contact with it is an idiot. Even worse to place it where human skin will be routinely in contact with it.

3a) Was that in the clear? - in the clear, everyone does pretty well these days. What's important is how far downhill things go when you're in a canyon or in tree coverage. Last time I went hiking in Watkins Glen State Park, the cell phone GPS lost coverage shortly after entering the gorge, my standalone GPS went downhill in accuracy but was still usable and maintained lock.

4) Don't know what to say - my experience with an Android tablet, for example, is that it routinely had the compass pointing the wrong way and there was no way to calibrate it.

5) Um, you can't use the phone when it's in an Otterbox.

 

News to me ;)

 

http://www.otterbox.com/iPhone-4-Defender-Series-Case/APL2-I4XXX,default,pd.html

 

I routinely carry my phone caching and at work in a dirty, dusty industry. I've been through 3 iPhones, using them in similar conditions, all with protective cases. None of these, even being dropped several times, showed damage.

 

I'm going to disagree on the GPS performance of the iPhone 4 / Droid 2 or X / etc. also, but it's obviously a losing argument here in the forums.

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1) Close the ziplock

2) don't put pointy things like keys inside the ziplock

 

Oh dadgum, how could I've forgotten that? :rolleyes:<_<

 

Actually it wasn't a ziplock, it was one of those: http://www.sz-wholesale.com/uploadFiles/upimg7%5CPVC-Waterproof-camera-bag_165337.jpg

Not exactly that one, but something similar (and just a pouch, not for camera). It had the same closing mechanism as ziplock bags, but more robust. And yep, contents still got soaked.

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1) Close the ziplock

2) don't put pointy things like keys inside the ziplock

 

Oh dadgum, how could I've forgotten that? :rolleyes:<_<

 

Actually it wasn't a ziplock, it was one of those: http://www.sz-wholesale.com/uploadFiles/upimg7%5CPVC-Waterproof-camera-bag_165337.jpg

Not exactly that one, but something similar (and just a pouch, not for camera). It had the same closing mechanism as ziplock bags, but more robust. And yep, contents still got soaked.

 

Ziplock bag is for the common use scenario - using the iPhone/Droid X/whatever in the rain. It's not really for submerging the device. Really though how often do you submerge your GPS. I think my Colorado got dumped once, when I fell out of a canoe with it on. My iPhone was in that canoe, but the Pelican case it was in kept it dry.

 

If your main concern is waterproofing, vs drop protection, There's a case for that.

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I'm a fairly avid smartphone/tablet user, and also own an Oregon 300.

 

I almost never use my phone for caching, and probably never will.

1) Battery life - Having a phone "always-on" for hike tracking/viewing imagery/etc will kill its battery REALLY fast. Having a backup battery to swap out is not feasible - expensive and device-specific. My Oregon uses cheap and standard NiMH AAs

 

2) Maps stored locally - If I'm in an area without cell phone reception, the phone becomes useless. Garmin's desire to milk you for extra money does make the unit seem less attractive at first, but since the IMG format has been mostly reverse engineered and the JNX format has been fully REd, there are PLENTY of free map sources for Garmin units.

 

3) Superior GPS performance. The GPS solutions in cell phones are cheap with weak correlators. Their raw performance is on par with or worse than old standalone GPS units from a decade ago. (my eMap locks faster than any smartphone I've used when out of coverage). When in a phone coverage area, the crutches of SUPL, time/location injection, and ephemeride preload (Qualcomm XTRA or similar) make the phone seem almost as good to an end user as a dedicated GPS - but if those crutches go away, the phone's GPS will show its true (vastly inferior) colors. Also, as far as ephemeride preload - a GPS with an MTKv2 chipset (Unfortunately, while there was a press release saying Garmin and MediaTek signed a supplier agreement, it sounds like the GPSMAP units are still using Cartesio - maybe MTKv2 is only in Nuvis?) will smoke a fully augmented smartphone in terms of lock times even without ephemeride preloads. The ephemeride caching implemented by the Cartesio (Oregons, DeLorme PN-40 and maybe 60) is a good middle ground. Similarly, MTKv2 chipsets smoke smartphones in terms of sensitivity. (Cartesio not so much)

 

3a) As others have said, reported accuracy means nothing. The only things that mean anything are: Measured actual errors/variances from a known position, and PDOP. DOP numbers are the only accuracy measure a GPS unit can give you that isn't a guess.

 

4) Magnetic compass performance - the magnetic compasses in many phones are flaky and inconsistent. (Nearly useless in my tablet...) Phone manufacturers focus on form factor and phone functionality - compass performance is a barely tested afterthought. Even Apple focuses only on the user interface and form factor and doesn't even care about phone performance. (The iPhone 4's antenna design is simply inexcusable. And yes, I am an RF engineer with antenna design experience - designing an antenna where the element is routinely contacted by human skin with no insulation whatsoever is dumb, dumb, dumb.)

 

5) Durability. I've dropped/bumped my GPS in many situations that would destroy a phone without the Oregon taking any damage. (This is admittedly part of the reason for smaller screens - the larger the screen, the easier it is to break/harder it is to protect.) Same for if it rains or there is any water spray - even light spray can kill some phones, and most phone's warranties void even in high humidity due to the immersion sensors being a liiitle too sensitive.

 

Not to be a stickler but:

1. Ok i get that but if you wanted to you could get an extended battery

2. Ok smartphones have a ton of free offline maps. Try Locus on android for every map you could ever think of

3. I dont really see what your saying here. Yes phones use agps, thats an advantage...and I don't have that chipset.

3a. DFX's test shown a 3 foot difference...is that a lot in consumer grade GPS? hmmm

4. Also disagree, Dunno what to say

5. Otterbox

 

Are you using only apple products? If that's the case maybe thats your problem?

1) Even an extended battery can't compare to just swapping AAs

2) Nearly every offline mapping app I've seen for smartphones used saved raster maps - horrifically space-inefficient

3) I'm saying that cell phones have such poor GPS receivers that they NEED AGPS to come close to the performance of even a not-so-hot dedicated chipset like the Cartesio. Without AGPS, they have lock times and performance on par with decade-old standalones like my old Garmin eMap. This holds true for older Qualcomm MSM7200, and newer Snapdragons - I've tried both. Not an Apple product user - I hate their walled-garden approach and the fact that they clearly choose visual form factor over performance and functionality - I would expect Apples to have substandard GPS performance too considering how incompetent their RF engineers are. Anyone who places a transmit antenna element where it is easy for human skin to come into direct contact with it is an idiot. Even worse to place it where human skin will be routinely in contact with it.

3a) Was that in the clear? - in the clear, everyone does pretty well these days. What's important is how far downhill things go when you're in a canyon or in tree coverage. Last time I went hiking in Watkins Glen State Park, the cell phone GPS lost coverage shortly after entering the gorge, my standalone GPS went downhill in accuracy but was still usable and maintained lock.

4) Don't know what to say - my experience with an Android tablet, for example, is that it routinely had the compass pointing the wrong way and there was no way to calibrate it.

5) Um, you can't use the phone when it's in an Otterbox.

 

1) You can get USB extender packs that are Li-on or AA based. They come in universal too, so you can top up an iPhone, Blackberry, Digital Camera, GPS (ie Magellan with Li-on) or whatever. Get one with a 1 amp charging circuit and you can top up your iPhone in about 30 minutes, without turning the device off to replace the battery. It's so not an issue for me when I'm caching. I can go all day with my iPhone and ONE battery recharge - by all day I mean 18 hours of solid caching. Most people who complain about poor battery performance while using GPS on their smartphone are doing this with Wifi turned on and searching, push emails coming in and out, bluetooth on and searching. If you leave Wifi enabled on a digital camera it nukes the battery too. Learn to use your device, and set the brightness down from thermonuclear.

 

2) Depends on the map. There ARE vector based map products and the smartphone has a huge advantage here over the GPS devices - it doesn't take a firmware upgrade to support a new map format. Garmin IMG format is technically available on iPhone, just not the locked Garmin ones. I have 5 different topo apps on my iPhone that work offline - ranging from Fugawi maps to the Government of Canada's topo maps. Yes, my Garmin Colorado is prolly more efficient at showing topo but it works. I also have OpenStreetMap and OpenCycleMap covered for everything within a reasonable travel for me. I am the proud owner of two dedicated GPS units as well, that NEVER got an official map data update from the manufacturer - my eXplorist 600 and my eXplorist XL had the same vector maps available the day Magellan discontinued them. DirectRoute 2 and DirectRoute 3 had identical vector data. Only difference there was UI

 

3) My iPhone has kept pace with my Colorado even in canyons and rain and whatnot. aGPS can be supported without being required.

 

4) iPhone 4 you calibrate the electronic compass by waving the phone in a figure 8 twice. Works great for me. One issue with electronic compasses on consumer devices is that they must be recalibrated when the battery is changed. My Colorado points the wrong way half the time when I forget to do that. iPhone, with an integrated battery doesn't have that issue.

 

5) There are LOTS of options for making a smartphone drop proof, water proof or whatnot. The Otterbox Reflex makes an iPhone 4 very drop resistant. A ziplock bag makes it water resistant which should work fine in the rain. I routinely put my iPhone 4 in a Pelican Case while canoeing. No, I can't interact with the screen in the Pelican Case but I can keep the screen on for navigation

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Really though how often do you submerge your GPS.

 

It happens occasionally... :anibad:

 

Well, the same as you would not take a Garmin Nuvi to those caches, you plan accordingly and waterproof your phone. It would be as easy as tossing it in a lock'n'lock for the walk across the river, then pull out the smartphone and use it to find the cache once on the other side. If you're targetting a SCUBA cache you leave the phone/GPS in the boat as they don't work too well 30 feet down, waterproofing or not :ph34r:

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Well, the same as you would not take a Garmin Nuvi to those caches, you plan accordingly and waterproof your phone. It would be as easy as tossing it in a lock'n'lock for the walk across the river, then pull out the smartphone and use it to find the cache once on the other side. If you're targetting a SCUBA cache you leave the phone/GPS in the boat as they don't work too well 30 feet down, waterproofing or not :ph34r:

 

Actually I had to swim to those caches, so simply holding a container in my hand wouldn't have worked. But yeah, every shortcoming can be remedied somehow. In my early caching days, I tried to do the same. I thought I had a device that could do everything, or rather that I could make do everything. It worked, kinda, but it got annoying with time. Too much stuff to worry about, and the inability to be spontaneous. Today, I don't even understand why I even tried, because the solution is so simple, and other than the fact that I'm always up for a challenge I didn't get any benefits out of it. But whatever.

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My Android phone is what is really getting me back into this. Love it! My son and I did an spur of the moment Geocaching day, today. Used my G2 all day. We had 18 finds today! I believe in the 8 years i've been doing this, that is the most i've found in one day. We had a few moments where another gps would've been great to get another fix on the coords. We gave up on 3 that we couldn't find, but that was us not finding them (all micro's). At the end of the day if the gps (phone or gps'r) gets you to within 10 feet, you generally know where to look regardless. I had several times the G2 pointed to within 3 feet, but nothing there. Remember the coords that are given by the cache hider play into this too. I would say we were within 6 feet on almost all of them.

Still....it was a great day of caching, and that's what it's all about!

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I have always been against smartphones for caching in areas other than towns which they are great at. That is until I saw the Casio Commando that just got released. I have to say after handling this phone it feels far more durable than any dedicated unit I have ever used. With this said the first waterproof and rugged smartphone has finally hit the market and changes my mind about using a smartphone for more extreme caching. I do not have a smartphone yet but am considering this one since I kayak, I mean who wouldn't mind not having to worry about dunking your phone in the water. It gets dirty, just wash it off in the sink.

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I have always been against smartphones for caching in areas other than towns which they are great at. That is until I saw the Casio Commando that just got released. I have to say after handling this phone it feels far more durable than any dedicated unit I have ever used. With this said the first waterproof and rugged smartphone has finally hit the market and changes my mind about using a smartphone for more extreme caching. I do not have a smartphone yet but am considering this one since I kayak, I mean who wouldn't mind not having to worry about dunking your phone in the water. It gets dirty, just wash it off in the sink.

 

... and yet another make my iPhone indestructible case shows up in the market - the Griffen Survivor seems designed with geocachers in mind.

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I have always been against smartphones for caching in areas other than towns which they are great at. That is until I saw the Casio Commando that just got released. I have to say after handling this phone it feels far more durable than any dedicated unit I have ever used. With this said the first waterproof and rugged smartphone has finally hit the market and changes my mind about using a smartphone for more extreme caching. I do not have a smartphone yet but am considering this one since I kayak, I mean who wouldn't mind not having to worry about dunking your phone in the water. It gets dirty, just wash it off in the sink.

 

... and yet another make my iPhone indestructible case shows up in the market - the Griffen Survivor seems designed with geocachers in mind.

Hmm Casio is only $20 with new contract, lets see here $350 later give or take and you have an iphone and an indestructible case for the most overpriced phone on the market. Sorry but the Casio is affordable for everyone and no bulky case is needed. When you look at price and function, the Casio with android is the clear choice unless you blindly follow Steve Jobs.

Edited by Druce_n_Eulla
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I have always been against smartphones for caching in areas other than towns which they are great at. That is until I saw the Casio Commando that just got released. I have to say after handling this phone it feels far more durable than any dedicated unit I have ever used. With this said the first waterproof and rugged smartphone has finally hit the market and changes my mind about using a smartphone for more extreme caching. I do not have a smartphone yet but am considering this one since I kayak, I mean who wouldn't mind not having to worry about dunking your phone in the water. It gets dirty, just wash it off in the sink.

 

... and yet another make my iPhone indestructible case shows up in the market - the Griffen Survivor seems designed with geocachers in mind.

Hmm Casio is only $20 with new contract, lets see here $350 later give or take and you have an iphone and an indestructible case for the most overpriced phone on the market. Sorry but the Casio is affordable for everyone and no bulky case is needed. When you look at price and function, the Casio with android is the clear choice unless you blindly follow Steve Jobs.

 

The iPhone 3Gs is 0 dollars down "with a new contract" and doesn't suffer platform fragmentation. I can take that Griffen case off when I'm not needing my device to be rugged and have a sleek modern device that looks fine on my office desk, or fit into a suit jacket.

 

There was no reason to attack people, like me, who choose iPhone over Android. It's a choice, and people choose which one meets their needs. I've owned Casio devices in the past and got screwed over by their rapid abandonment of their platforms - take the Cassiopeia series for example. I fully expect this Commando device will be left behind, permanently stuck on Android 2.2 while my iPhone 4 gets an iOS 5.0 update later.

 

That phone is only $20 because of a thing called carrier subsidy. The off-contract price for that device is $449. Being a Verizon device it's most likely limited to CDMA so I hope it has a marine battery option available for use in areas with low signal.

 

If price is the only factor in choosing a device, you go with a Yellow Garmin eTrex for less than $100 and no 24-36 month $50/month contract to worry about.

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I have always been against smartphones for caching in areas other than towns which they are great at. That is until I saw the Casio Commando that just got released. I have to say after handling this phone it feels far more durable than any dedicated unit I have ever used. With this said the first waterproof and rugged smartphone has finally hit the market and changes my mind about using a smartphone for more extreme caching. I do not have a smartphone yet but am considering this one since I kayak, I mean who wouldn't mind not having to worry about dunking your phone in the water. It gets dirty, just wash it off in the sink.

 

... and yet another make my iPhone indestructible case shows up in the market - the Griffen Survivor seems designed with geocachers in mind.

Hmm Casio is only $20 with new contract, lets see here $350 later give or take and you have an iphone and an indestructible case for the most overpriced phone on the market. Sorry but the Casio is affordable for everyone and no bulky case is needed. When you look at price and function, the Casio with android is the clear choice unless you blindly follow Steve Jobs.

 

Also note, the phone is TWO HUNDRED (Two eTrexes), not $20 on the Verizon site for a two year contract.

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I have always been against smartphones for caching in areas other than towns which they are great at. That is until I saw the Casio Commando that just got released. I have to say after handling this phone it feels far more durable than any dedicated unit I have ever used. With this said the first waterproof and rugged smartphone has finally hit the market and changes my mind about using a smartphone for more extreme caching. I do not have a smartphone yet but am considering this one since I kayak, I mean who wouldn't mind not having to worry about dunking your phone in the water. It gets dirty, just wash it off in the sink.

 

... and yet another make my iPhone indestructible case shows up in the market - the Griffen Survivor seems designed with geocachers in mind.

Hmm Casio is only $20 with new contract, lets see here $350 later give or take and you have an iphone and an indestructible case for the most overpriced phone on the market. Sorry but the Casio is affordable for everyone and no bulky case is needed. When you look at price and function, the Casio with android is the clear choice unless you blindly follow Steve Jobs.

 

Also note, the phone is TWO HUNDRED (Two eTrexes), not $20 on the Verizon site for a two year contract.

Called Walmart $20 bucks on contract and the 3gs is so far outdated at this point that most people would get frustrated with it. People who just want to throw money away buy a phone from a providers website or store when they can get much better deals at places like Walmart, BestBuy, and Radio Shack. I am speaking for people who are looking for a smartphone who do not have one as of right now. The Casio would be a great choice for those who want to cache with a phone.

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Called Walmart $20 bucks on contract and the 3gs is so far outdated at this point that most people would get frustrated with it. People who just want to throw money away buy a phone from a providers website or store when they can get much better deals at places like Walmart, BestBuy, and Radio Shack. I am speaking for people who are looking for a smartphone who do not have one as of right now. The Casio would be a great choice for those who want to cache with a phone.

 

And so would an iPhone 4. All boils down to what you need/want. Both are smartphones, both have plusses and minuses.

Don't bash someone who chooses an iPhone. I went with my iPhone after owning three Casio PDAs, and three HTC smartphones.

 

The thread is Cell phone vs Handheld, not religious zealot battle iOS vs Android.

I will put you down in the "Yes, Smartphones rock!" category and we'll call it even. If you would like to continue the iOS vs Android vs Whatever debate, we can start a new thread.

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Called Walmart $20 bucks on contract and the 3gs is so far outdated at this point that most people would get frustrated with it. People who just want to throw money away buy a phone from a providers website or store when they can get much better deals at places like Walmart, BestBuy, and Radio Shack. I am speaking for people who are looking for a smartphone who do not have one as of right now. The Casio would be a great choice for those who want to cache with a phone.

 

And so would an iPhone 4. All boils down to what you need/want. Both are smartphones, both have plusses and minuses.

Don't bash someone who chooses an iPhone. I went with my iPhone after owning three Casio PDAs, and three HTC smartphones.

 

The thread is Cell phone vs Handheld, not religious zealot battle iOS vs Android.

I will put you down in the "Yes, Smartphones rock!" category and we'll call it even. If you would like to continue the iOS vs Android vs Whatever debate, we can start a new thread.

Sorry the Steve jobs reference was out of line and agree that smartphones are great. The only point I was originally trying to make was there is now a cheap android phone that is waterproof out of the box and that is a huge step in the right direction for people wanting to cache with phone. It solves the not rugged enough issue without needing additional protection.

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I love using my android phone for geocaching because everything is in one place. I've got c:geo running that as you know links well into other apps for navigation and radar. The phone is housed in a nice sturdy case which has a death grip on the phone. This is attached to a lanyard and worn to avoid dropping it.

 

I've also got a Holux GPSlim240 Bluetooth GPS Receiver that I also wear round my neck which boosts the GPS signal massively. Never lost the signal even in the thickest canopies.

 

Map wise I've got Locus as my main offline source. It all comes together great and I've got all the info I need for as many caches as I need for a trip way out of signal range.

 

Battery wise, the phone is an HTC Desire HD and survived a 10 hour night caching session no problem although I have got a spare battery just in case.

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