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Cell phone VS Handheld GPS


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Are cellphones better? For some. Is a dedicated Gpsr? For others. Why not use them in conjunction with each other. At the moment I'm not using a Smart Phone. I have a dumb phone (Env2) <_< . With cache notifications through text and emails, I have been able to pull off a couple FTF's while I have been out and about. Its kind of a slow process using the dumb phone but effective coupled with my 60csx or Oregon 300. Hopefullly in the next few weeks I'll have my Droid X, but either of the two gpsr's will be in close reach. I know the effectiveness of them.

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I have looked for caches hidden by phone users and the coordinates were way off. This may improve with technology and I know different models are going to have different levels of accuracy. I check the accuracy of my GPS's against a benchmark in town and have not had the chance to check any of the phones.

 

That being said I will not be without a handheld GPS because it will do things that a phone cannot do. I use it for work and hunting in addition to geocaching and the ability to store and download waypoints and tracks is invaluable. The ability to download aerial photography in the newer models is a big plus, especially since a big portion of the counties that I work in do not have adequate cell phone coverage to pull up google maps. I have gps capability on my phone but I am not going to pay a monthly fee to use it.

 

To reply to the original poster, I respect your opinion about the phone apps and I am happy that you like using it for geocaching and other gps roles. However I would rather stick with a good handheld GPS that will stand up to being used outdoors in a rough enviroment. My Map 76csx took a slide facedown across an asphalt parking lot and came up looking better than me. A phone would not have faired that well.

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I have a Droid Incredible - just found my first cache today with it.

 

As far as being on a mountain or in the woods (I live in Denver), GPS functionality works fine.

 

And yes, I do have a warranty that WILL cover it if I drop it in a river (as long as I retrieve it so it can be returned), step on it, crack the screen, etc. I pay for that extra coverage, but I use my Droid hours every day, it is in fact a PC replacement in many ways, and with geocaching it's just going to get used even more.

 

High end smart phones are definitely going to bring in more people to the hobby, so support those of us getting into the hobby with a droid, iPhone or whatever. If we love it enough, we'd probably all eventually upgrade to a more indestructible unit.

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I am responding even though my wife has asked me not too. She knows me and my honesty and is beside herself.

 

I have never said a bad thing about a GPS, I have one. So those words do not go in my mouth.

 

I love GeoCaching.

 

Naive? If that means Honesty , then I am very naive.

However I was naive to think that giving my experience with My particular phone would be welcome. Oh well.

My phone is covered for every kind of damage but theft. Meaning I have to be able to return the object.

 

Even though I have little desire to be on this forum now after being called naive or that my 25 finds are out in the open (no valleys or mountains I admit).

 

I have respect enough however.to do what was asked of me to test my EVO. I have my dignity being kicked around. It is raining in Central Florida today with a cloud ceiling of about 3000 feet. You will have to trust my judgement of clouds from my aviation experience and Parachuting experience.

 

The following "refind Caches" were all done within 1 hour of each other from beginning to start in the pouring rain. I had to put the EVO in a zip lock bag. (reason 1 to get my GPS stand alone out in rain) I will describe each location as open or under trees. So if I can at least have the respect for my effort from everyone for at least the time I have spent today to verify the accuracy under the worst conditions in my area.

 

My previous statement of within 3 feet were all on Complete sunny days. I started last week and until today not gone out for two days. Because of rain.

 

GC1P73M Under a tree in the pouring rain. The GPS Bounced from 12.13 feet to 13.85 feet

GC1HF2 Open in the pouring rain. The GPS Bounced from 6.32 feet to 6.66 feet

GC27QMY Under trees in the pouring rain. GPS Bounced from 4.23 feet to 13.37 feet

GC21E34 Under trees in the pouring rain. GPS Bounced from 7.21 feet to 8.64 feet

GC2284V Under heavy trees poring rain. GPS Bounced from 5.82 feet to 13.65 feet (note one bounce went to 32 feet, my unit prompted me to re calibrate my compass when that happened)

GC26BPE Under tree rain stopped. GPS Bounced from 1.97 feet to 12.97 feet

 

Each re visit was to a find I had already been too. Each reading was with GPS touching Cache (with stealth) I used another dummy phone to talk on while I acted like I was leaning on object. I make no assumptions or remarks regarding my units accuracy. I have not read any articles yet about GPS units, restrictions, accuracy's and so on, I have not had a reason since all I know about GPS is what I have with practical use.

The GPS stand alone I have was used only for lobster finds while trolling in a 23 foot Mako I had in the keys. I was very happy to be able to jump in the next day on the spot with scuba gear and find the same spots.

 

I see no need to lock this thread.

I have done nothing but share honest information. I have called no one names or accused anyone of personality disorders.

 

The person earlier that said he was outa here was a new user with an Droid Eris . I am sorry to see that. We have been so happy about this new Hobby with our new devices and joined here to share (I do not know him personally) We had no idea that we would feel our information would be viewed as un welcome or unbelievable.

 

I am going to remain a member. I like either GPS I have. One fits in my pocket and is with me all the time because my daughter has a seizure condition. So I use that one.

 

I have only been doing this a week and have not read any other thread than the ones I have made time to write in. So I do not claim and never have claimed to know what or if others like or dislike. Smart Phones GPS's very from manufacturer type and quality and can not be generalized any more than Stand alone GPS's

 

I'm kinda on the fence here about feeling welcome. The Forums I am used too welcome new members and say things like "...nice aluminum radiator , but I prefer a standard one" They do not tell another that there is no way the aluminum one can cool better than the standard one, because they have never had one.

 

Have a good night and thank you for your time.

 

Edit: do too spelling

Edited by markstang
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Wow, I'm hesitant to post because my flame proof undies are in the wash but what the heck.

 

First, I own both a Motorola Droid (1) and an Oregon 450.

 

I started caching and found my first 150+ caches with geobeagle and some other apps that cobble together a solution. Now that the Android app is out it's on my list to buy.

 

My Droid does a great job for those times I have a few minutes between appointments. The downside for me was accuracy in the woods and limited battery life. I chose not to place a cache having been told about others experience of hundreds of feet off. One was over a thousand feet off. (no idea on the details just hearsay from long time cachers at a coffee)

 

My Oregon is awesome for those days I like to go for an all day trip. Endless batteries, thousands of caches and easy to read leaving my phone free and charged for emergencies. (and yes I'm prone to them) This is peace of mind for my family and myself. My hides were placed with the Oregon. My understanding is various GPSr units all get you within roughly 20' of the cache. Sometimes better, sometimes not.

 

So my feeling is whatever floats your boat and remember what they say about opinions. Everyone has their device of choice. I have met folks who are die hard magellan, garmin, delorme etc. Frankly it's what works best for YOU and what makes YOU happy.

 

My reading between the lines here is folks are concerned for the safety of your smart phone and trying to share their experiences of the pros and cons of a stand alone GPSr.

 

It's your choice what you do with that info. You can ignore it, file it away, take it under advisement or laugh at it. No one will know the difference down the road.

 

You'll feel your way and decide as your caching experience matures. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts in a couple hundred finds just out of my own curiosity. I chose to use my phone to make sure I was going to stick with it before investing any big money into a GPSr. When I decided I wanted a GPSr I read and listened along the way and made the choice right for me which is ultimately what you'll end up doing down the road.

 

CC

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Wow, I'm hesitant to post because my flame proof undies are in the wash but what the heck.

 

First, I own both a Motorola Droid (1) and an Oregon 450.

 

I started caching and found my first 150+ caches with geobeagle and some other apps that cobble together a solution. Now that the Android app is out it's on my list to buy.

 

My Droid does a great job for those times I have a few minutes between appointments. The downside for me was accuracy in the woods and limited battery life. I chose not to place a cache having been told about others experience of hundreds of feet off. One was over a thousand feet off. (no idea on the details just hearsay from long time cachers at a coffee)

 

My Oregon is awesome for those days I like to go for an all day trip. Endless batteries, thousands of caches and easy to read leaving my phone free and charged for emergencies. (and yes I'm prone to them) This is peace of mind for my family and myself. My hides were placed with the Oregon. My understanding is various GPSr units all get you within roughly 20' of the cache. Sometimes better, sometimes not.

 

So my feeling is whatever floats your boat and remember what they say about opinions. Everyone has their device of choice. I have met folks who are die hard magellan, garmin, delorme etc. Frankly it's what works best for YOU and what makes YOU happy.

 

My reading between the lines here is folks are concerned for the safety of your smart phone and trying to share their experiences of the pros and cons of a stand alone GPSr.

 

It's your choice what you do with that info. You can ignore it, file it away, take it under advisement or laugh at it. No one will know the difference down the road.

 

You'll feel your way and decide as your caching experience matures. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts in a couple hundred finds just out of my own curiosity. I chose to use my phone to make sure I was going to stick with it before investing any big money into a GPSr. When I decided I wanted a GPSr I read and listened along the way and made the choice right for me which is ultimately what you'll end up doing down the road.

 

CC

 

Hello,

 

I thank you for your insight. If I may say this...I tend to agree with you too. Imagine that :unsure: Going out in the rain yesterday was not my idea of fun at all. Then I realized this morning that it actually made me feel more adventurous. The hunt and conditions were far more enjoyable than just the find.

 

I was using pen and paper for the first time to record the information and felt a truer connection than no paper. This is not going to be surprising to a lot of you but I just wanted to share this humbling turn of events so you know that I am truly somewhat of a GeoCacher with possibility.

 

The rain let me know right away (zip lock or not) that bad conditions are no place for the phone.

...and I kinda liked the bad conditions. So...a rugged location outside of Florida for example has become part of my new thinking.

I suspect a Stand alone (newer than my ancient one) will become a desire very quickly. I love gadgets, I am not so sure about the steps to load info into one though. When I get one I just want to get the best one with the first money I spend and I do not know a thing about which one is best for this hobby.

 

Thank you again. Mark

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[Hello,

 

I thank you for your insight. If I may say this...I tend to agree with you too. Imagine that smile.gif Going out in the rain yesterday was not my idea of fun at all. Then I realized this morning that it actually made me feel more adventurous. The hunt and conditions were far more enjoyable than just the find.

 

I was using pen and paper for the first time to record the information and felt a truer connection than no paper. This is not going to be surprising to a lot of you but I just wanted to share this humbling turn of events so you know that I am truly somewhat of a GeoCacher with possibility.

 

The rain let me know right away (zip lock or not) that bad conditions are no place for the phone.

...and I kinda liked the bad conditions. So...a rugged location outside of Florida for example has become part of my new thinking.

I suspect a Stand alone (newer than my ancient one) will become a desire very quickly. I love gadgets, I am not so sure about the steps to load info into one though. When I get one I just want to get the best one with the first money I spend and I do not know a thing about which one is best for this hobby.

 

Thank you again. Mark

 

 

Well when asking about GPSr units be prepared for 101 opinions. I heard from evangelists of all brands and ultimately chose the Oregon 450 for myself. Honestly though your best bet is to go to a store and play with the top choices. I was turned off by Magellen's lack of customer support so I was between Garmin and DeLorme. What pushed me to Garmin between the two was loading caches at events. The events I've been to have only been able to load to a Garmin. That probably a topic for a different thread though.

 

Glad to hear you're enjoying the off weather days too!

CC

 

Edit note: wow my quotes got all messed up!

Edited by critter_crazed
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Smart phones killed Palm and other PDAs. Navteq map data seller is probably hurting. I think GPS manufacturers will be the next to start hurting.

 

I bought a cell phone many years ago for emergencies when I am in the woods so I will always have my cell phone when Geocaching in the woods. I am now a very infrequent cacher, but sometimes I am stuck somewhere with nothing to do and a smart phone does something my old GPS will not do. The phone answers the question, "are there any caches near me?". The GPS on the other hand, I use for making tracks of my bike rides without worrying about breaking the track if I answer the phone. So my answer is I use both a GPS and a smart phone.

 

Snarky thread, my kind of thread. :-) Is dfx outa here or not?

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OK OK I started this thread and have been gone for some time. I must admit I am now seeing things differently. Or trying to since I have such a small screen and ONLY 9 FINDS.

I have been in the mountains in a river under a canopy.

I dropped my GPS in the river and since it looks like my surroundings I could not find it. I also had camouflage paint on my face and went missing for 3 days because no one could see me.

So I went home and sold my computer and my flat screen TVs and my EVO on ebay.

Since then I have invested many hundreds of dollars in a GPS and then invested several hundreds more in maps again just to enjoy what I have been missing.

All I have to complain about now is that they need a GPS that floats.

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Wow, talk about your bash threads, LOL.

 

I've been looking at whether the app for Droid has the bugs worked out before we hit the "purchase" button. Anybody know? Newest thread I saw had moderator clamps on it already -- God forbid someone complain their phone locks up.

 

Reason I'm looking at it is my palm recently died, I have an old 60cs, and the wife has an Android.

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I have Dakota 10 which I have used for months and now have a Droid with Groundspeak.

 

The plus side to the Droid.

+ always on me

+ Screen is bigger, clear

+ I can get a cache at anytime easily

+ Faster software

+ $10 for the program

+ lots of memory space ( though not a big deal really)

 

Down side

- battery is very poor

- Can't take a beating ( I got the extra warranty)

 

Dakota 10

Plus side

 

+ Battery goes for every

+ Durable

 

Down side

- not as clear screen. Processor is slower

- to get birds eye its extra $30 year. Built in on my droid.

- No instant caches, need to pre-download

 

Right now I might sell my Dakota.. its a good unit. But I don't go out for days at a time. I can charge my phone anytime.

 

It just depends how you use it.

( Thats what she said! )

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Yea, interesting discussion here. However, I noticed a lot of talk about the Droid. I've used my Blackberry 9000 with Geocache Navigator ever since I started last year. It is incredible. Completely paperless and my Blackberry is always with me so I can geocache at a moment's notice. It makes everything so effortless.

 

The only thing that has made me possibly want a stand-alone GPS is accuracy. So many times I can't really tell how accurate it really is. Sometimes it is the person who placed the cache that has fuzzy coords. So I'm not always sure. I'm still giving some thought to getting a 60csx since so many appear to love it. I want to see what I'm missing, if anything.

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For me it was about VFM.

 

I have a Nokia 5230 (Nuron) phone. Cost me £70 brand new on a PAYG setup. I pay £5 per month for 1gb data package which allows me to pick up emails on the move, something I would have anyway.

 

I use the Geocaching Live app (£0) and find that the practcal accuracy of the phone is substantially better than my old Garmin eTrex.

 

On the phone I also have FREE in car satnav (OviMaps). Oh and it can make phone calls, and has a rudimentary 2mp camera.

 

So for a genuine £70 I've got an adequate camera, an adequate GPSr (doesn't appear to have issues under trees), live access to all of the caches I can consume (provided I can get a signal, or I can download earlier), a mobile email client, a web browser which means I can log caches whilst I am away from home, an MP3 player, a radio, a podcast client, a sports GPS device (for logging my jogging) etc etc

 

I can keep it protected from the rain, or for £70 buy a new one! All of which substantially cheaper than even the basic eTrex H and waaaayyyy cheaper than a purpose built geocaching GPSr.

 

A no-brainer for me I'm afraid!!

 

Matt

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Good information, from both sides of the coin! I can see the pros and cons of each. Use the android phone to get you started, but use the GPS for it's durability, etc. I'm using my CAR GPS right now. I just started geocaching, it works for me. FOR NOW. But I don't want to break it, it's not too accurate, and will probably get a handheld GPS. It would be nice to have a big screen, a handy camera, and internet access, too, though! My next phone might end up being one with a big screen, and waterproof, shatterproof. That would be awesome. I'll have to look up the TOA. This thread was very helpful to me, thanks all. :)

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I am using a 62s now, after using a 60Cx for a while. I use Trimble survey grade GPSr at work. I do not use a smart phone as of yet, but I have been sorely considering getting one, and the geocaching apps are just another reason supporting getting one. I will always have a GPSr, as I hike, mountain bike, etc, and I just have become reliant on having one with me. But honestly, I really like the ability to grab and go with a smart phone app, and really, REALLY like the fact that I would never have to deal with PQ (Pocket Query) again. I see the ideal situation as using both in conjunction with each other, but I can also see that either would be sufficient alone in most caching situations.

 

I will likely get a smart phone (leaning towards a Droid of some flavor) in the near future. Not JUST for geoacaching, but I assume it will be used for geocaching.

 

Just my 2 cents worth. And BTW, I am a relative newcomer to geocaching too, so mo need to point out my relatively low cache count.....

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First, to the OP:

A lot of the aggressive/defensive responses you are getting are because your post was very aggressive.

 

I too, however, use the Evo 4G and I love the capabilities therein. I do not have a GPS unit because I can not afford one. I would like one because I much prefer rural caching over urban (in fact, I very much dislike urban caching) and I understand the benefits that others are stating regarding the various GPS units out there. Thus far, my Evo has worked very well for me, but I can foresee an accident happening.

 

The app I use is just called 'geocaching' and is put out by Groundspeak. It is $10 for the app and works well, though it is lacking a few things that some of my free apps have (like geohunter). I have yet to find anywhere where it says I can not use a free app. Geohunter actually seems to be more accurate and has a radar function. The thing I don't like about geohunter (and why I like the geocaching app) is that it requires Timberland to be able to 'send to phone' from geocaching.com There is no Timberland app for droid that works, so I will say this in regards to the ToU reference... if they want it to be an official app, then they need to make an app that works on the platform. But again, I can't find the reference to the stated rule anyway.

 

To the person who mentioned that those of us who use the cell phones have under 100 finds, which implies your elitest attitude, perhaps. It doesn't mean we've never gone in the woods before. It PROBABLY means we are new to geocaching or we try to focus on the tougher ones that take an entire day to get to. I, personally, have not done this, though those types are my focus when I have the time. I, for one, grew up on 240 acres of woods. I understand the necessity of ruggedness and durability. Just because I have less than 100 finds does not make me any more or less ignorant to these things than it does you. And because I use a cell phone doesn't mean I am any less welcome to make my way to 100 finds and beyond than you.

 

Some people really should think before they post their bigotries.

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.

I was also not impressed after looking over all the GPS units screen sizes. We are not all 18 years old with 20/20 vision.

 

thank you!!!! when are these hand-held electronic people and app designers going to get that??? We should be able to magnify Every screen, not just select mobile pages.

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But, here's an experiment to respond to your request. Take your EVO, etc. outside on a rainy day, hold it over your head, and drop it so that it bouces off of something into some mud. Let it sit there for a few minutes. Do you think it's gonna survive?

 

O.K., why would you do that? In what possible Geocaching scenario would one be holding there smart phone (or Gps unit ) over there head in rainy weather and then drop it? I know I'm a new Geocacher, I only have a few finds, I DID get lost in the woods when my Smart-a** phone turned on me, so I have no validity here. However, my solution to quoted poster's experiment testing the fragility of smart phones versus over priced gps is as follows:

 

A) Avoid holding smart Phone over your head in slippery, wet weather conditions. duh, really??

 

:angry: Attach Phone to some sort of Safety-Break-Away-Hands-Free-Lanyard around your neck, providing ability for clumsy Geo cachers the world over to instantaneously let go of precious phone, leaving both hands free to break fall, or better yet shove fellow Geocacher out of the way in the event of close FTF.

 

C) Invent an Inclement Weather Condom (IWC) for your Smart phone. This can be as simple as a ziploc baggie placed over smart phone, which should now be dangling over your chest via homemade Hands-Free-Lanyard ( see item B, above)

 

D) Pad your Smart phone. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Get out your glue gun, it's in the basement with the rest of your crafting supplies that you no longer use since discovering geocaching. Attach the foam padding all around phone. Remember doing this to the edges of your coffee table when your grand baby started walking? It's a similiar process on a smaller scale. While you're at it, maybe add some of those bedazzler jewels you have left over for that personalized touch.

 

E) Do not allow your 5 year old to handle your smart phone in the manner and weather conditions that the quoted poster suggested in his experiment. Duh, really?? Don't ya think in those conditions you'd be holding said 5 year olds' hand and rushing him/her back to the car?

 

F) In the event all else fails, pay for the monthly phone insurance. Mine is $7 a month, and yes, it does cover water damage, theft and loss.

 

I hope my solutions have finally put an end to the Gps Versus Smart a** phone debate. Happy Caching, lol.

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I'm not a seasoned geocacher, but I've had the opportunity to compare the behavior of the iphone 3gs, the Garmin Vista Hcx and the Garmin 60 Csx. The iPhone with the geocaching app is very handy in that it can tell you about nearby caches, but the accuracy of the GPS isn't as good as on the dedicated receivers. My family and I were looking for a cache, and the area that my wife was searching with her phone was much greater than the kids and me with the dedicated units. For large, easy to find caches the iphone works well, but for more difficult to find caches the improved accuracy of the dedicated receivers helps greatly.

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Like many others it is my phone (Nokia N97) that got me into geocaching. A visitor showed me his Garmin and told us about GCing. He led us off and we did a little nano down the road. I then did a bit of net searching and learned a bit. I paid and got the Geocaching app for my N97. Best $32 I ever spent. I have taken it into the Australian outback and overseas to Vanuatu to do GCing. I like a challenge and yeah maybe it at times is a challenge and not all it could be. But hey, my wife and son now have the same phone and we all go out and hunt. Sure there are times when I wonder if it might be better with a proprietry GPS and maybe one day I will get one. Sure when it rains I have my phone in a press seal plastic bag and I may not have done thousands but I only started about three months ago and as a real part time thigns I am happy with the eighty odd I have found and not that diappointed by the half dozen or so I haven't.

My Nokia may not be as tough as many of the GPS units but I just take sensible care (Probably less than many would) and it gives me good service and as far as I can tell pretty good accuracy. Would I tell anyone don't try GCing with a phone? No way. have a go and see how you find it. (Pardon the pun) If it works for you then great, if not then re think it. Persaonally, I am hoping to pack my Nokia N97, my car charger and solar charger and keep going for a long time.

And I will continue to get ohters intersted in GCing by showing them how much fun you can have with just what you already have in your pocket. My daughter just wishes her i-phone was half as accurate as mine. :D

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BlackBerry+ Geocache Navigator + Otterbox Defender+ Spare Battery=

 

Awesome GPSr with OTA cache downloads, maps, driving directions, camera, ability to load to routes.

I got excited about a single device solution.

 

Sold my Garmin GPSMap 60CSx and bought the Blackberry Curve 8310.

 

Slow. Cranky. Pretty much restricted to big-city urban caching where you can get a high-speed signal.

 

Maps suck, period. (I've tried quite a lot of them).

 

Apps suck. I've tried all of them, legal and otherwise.

 

Have found myself unable to get a signal and therefore unable to get cache info when I wanted to cache, including at GeoWoodstock 7 and at several events since then. That was embarrassing - Here I am a fairly experienced cacher asking folks "Hey, my GPS toy won't work, can I follow you to the cache?" Um, no. Went to the country's largest caching event and couldn't cache.

 

I'm back to using an old Magellan Meridian Gold and it works 100% every time.

 

I want my 60CSx back.

 

Anyone want to trade a 60CSx for a Blackberry?

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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BlackBerry+ Geocache Navigator + Otterbox Defender+ Spare Battery=

 

Awesome GPSr with OTA cache downloads, maps, driving directions, camera, ability to load to routes.

I got excited about a single device solution.

 

Sold my Garmin GPSMap 60CSx and bought the Blackberry Curve 8310.

 

Slow. Cranky. Pretty much restricted to big-city urban caching where you can get a high-speed signal.

 

Maps suck, period. (I've tried quite a lot of them).

 

Apps suck. I've tried all of them, legal and otherwise.

 

Have found myself unable to get a signal and therefore unable to get cache info when I wanted to cache, including at GeoWoodstock 7 and at several events since then. That was embarrassing - Here I am a fairly experienced cacher asking folks "Hey, my GPS toy won't work, can I follow you to the cache?" Um, no. Went to the country's largest caching event and couldn't cache.

 

I'm back to using an old Magellan Meridian Gold and it works 100% every time.

 

I want my 60CSx back.

 

Anyone want to trade a 60CSx for a Blackberry?

 

This is funny because I went the opposite direction. I have a Blackberry Bold and used Blackstar at first. It was fine, but upgrading to Geocache Navigator was just astonishing. It just has everything and using the radar gave me pretty good accuracy.

 

I just purcahsed a 60CSX because so many people here said it was one of the best in regards to accuracy. Now that I've used the 60CSX for a month guess which one I would choose? The answer is my blackberry everytime. Yes, the 60CSX can keep a signal if there is a dense tree canopy and the electronic compass is nice, but oddly enough I have found using the radar function with Geocache Navigator puts me almost right on top of the Geocache every time if the coords are good. With the 60CSX it tends to have a pretty big margin of error, maybe +- 9 feet.

 

I've actually given my 60CSX to my six-year old Son for him to use. Where it is a benefit for him is because of the electronic compass. He can stop moving to keep the compass signal which he is apt to do. The Blackberry's compass will bounce around if you aren't moving.

 

Ultimately, why I think you had such a poor experience was due to the Blackberry Curve. It doesn't have nearly the processing power as the Blackberry Bold. Again, my Bold with Geocache Navigator is about the best I've seen so far and that is directly comparing it to the popular 60CSX.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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I just purcahsed a 60CSX because so many people here said it was one of the best in regards to accuracy. Now that I've used the 60CSX for a month guess which one I would choose? The answer is my blackberry everytime. Yes, the 60CSX can keep a signal if there is a dense tree canopy and the electronic compass is nice, but oddly enough I have found using the radar function with Geocache Navigator puts me almost right on top of the Geocache every time if the coords are good. With the 60CSX it tends to have a pretty big margin of error, maybe +- 9 feet.

if you think that +- 9 feet is a "pretty big margin of error", you're very mistaken. if you think your blackberry can do better than that, you're also very mistaken. if you think that all those cases where your blackberry didn't put you "right on top of the cache" were only due to bad coordinates, you're also mistaken.

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But, here's an experiment to respond to your request. Take your EVO, etc. outside on a rainy day, hold it over your head, and drop it so that it bouces off of something into some mud. Let it sit there for a few minutes. Do you think it's gonna survive?

 

O.K., why would you do that? In what possible Geocaching scenario would one be holding there smart phone (or Gps unit ) over there head in rainy weather and then drop it? I know I'm a new Geocacher, I only have a few finds, I DID get lost in the woods when my Smart-a** phone turned on me, so I have no validity here. However, my solution to quoted poster's experiment testing the fragility of smart phones versus over priced gps is as follows:

 

 

because some of us still go caching if its raining and want to be able to hold it out and look at the screen comfortably, some are also clumsy and also because s**t happens

and when it does i still have my trusty Oregon in good working order (yes, i dropped it on the concrete floor of the garage, it fell face first and barely got a little mark in one corner of the frame)

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One new aspect where the cell phone GPS units now beat out ALL the comparitive dedicated GPSr units: Wherigo.

 

The Wherigo app for the iPhone just added the capability to show you a map with the active zones on it.

 

Something Garmin figured we didn't need on the Colorado or Oregon units. Nothing like a $500 mapping GPS that won't show you a map during the Wherigo part of the unit.

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if you think that +- 9 feet is a "pretty big margin of error", you're very mistaken. if you think your blackberry can do better than that, you're also very mistaken. if you think that all those cases where your blackberry didn't put you "right on top of the cache" were only due to bad coordinates, you're also mistaken.

 

I might be mistaken ;)

 

All kidding aside, I understand what you are saying. What I find surprising to me is that I can't seem to find any increased accuracy with the 60csx over the Blackberry. If you couple the Blackberry then with all the added functionality it gives you with arial maps, paperless caching, and just simply the ability to enjoy geocaching anywhere at a moment's notice without any prep work it beats the 60csx pretty well.

 

I think a true test might be a geocache I've been trying for that is deep in the woods. It will take some bushwacking to get to it. If the Blackberry appears to perform the same in a side-by-side test to the 60csx I'll hard pressed to understand where the 60csx or probably and stand alone GPS I know of wins over the Blackberry Bold.

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My BlackBerry Tour is as accurate as a stand-alone GPSr. I've used it to find almost 200 caches, hide 10 and I don't plan on buying a stand-alone any time soon.

 

Besides the Otterbox defender case which protects the BlackBerry, I also have a waterproof case with a lanyard that also floats! You can get them online and from West Marine for PDAs, BlackBerry and iPhones. I have it in my backpack in case of rain or if I'm canoeing with my BlackBerry.

 

I may get a solar charger next but I haven't found the battery to be an issue really. I've done my share of cachin in the woods and I've found many ways to save battery.

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LOL...what started as a rant and with what appeared to be a few sock puppets is now a civil discussion.

 

I have an Oregon. I have an ipod touch. I use any one of a number of Trimbles at work.

 

I like the screen and functionality of my ipod touch. I use a dumb phone, though. Why? Well, because getting a smartphone and adding a data plan to it would cost me a good chunk of change. People saying they can't afford a GPS...wtf?! I can't afford a bloody smartphone!

 

The Oregon works pretty well. The waypoint averaging function will compete with the accuracy of some of the Trimbles with post-processing. It won't get me centimeter accuracy like the best ones will, but far better than a smartphone.

 

It's amusing to me that it's mostly the noobs who extol the virtues of the smartphones. Get out there a little bit. Compare the data your phone collects with that of some other dedicated GPS receivers. You'll see eventually that it's not the best tool for every job.

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I would like to here from an experienced Stand alone GPS user of many years that has tried a smart phone Like HTC EVO GPS . But I have not read that scenario yet. I am too new here.

i haven't read about that scenario either, because most of the time it happens the other way around.

 

Ok. How's this.

 

I've been caching for almost 8 years. 4900 finds or so.

I've used an eTrex, eXplorist 600, eXplorist XL, Garmin Colorado, and a few smartphones.

 

In fair weather, I rely more on my iPhone 4 than I do any of the above GPS units. Why? Well my Colorado is more crash happy than a Windows 95 PC. The iPhone 4 consistently matches it for accuracy - and I'm talking places like the Bruce Trail around Limehouse (dolomite, limestone cliffs, lotsa trees). I don't have the PITA of having to load up the iPhone first.

 

But I still CARRY that Colorado. The discreet GPS is better at handling multi caches. If it's raining, I am definitely using the Colorado. You can bet the iPhone is gonna stay in my pocket while I'm caching in February.

 

But since I got my iPhone, I've stopped telling people that a smartphone is a poor GPS device. It isn't ... it's just not good for bad weather or clumsy folk.

 

I cached with my iPhone at GHAGAFAP. I had a few people poking humour at me about how inaccurate my phone would be - the best moment of the day was when 15 people with GPS units - Colorado, Oregon, 62s, couple Maggies walked right past a cache while my iPhone 4 led me to the cache and read 3M there. I was also able to log my caches on the spot .... with photos.

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LOL...what started as a rant and with what appeared to be a few sock puppets is now a civil discussion.

 

I have an Oregon. I have an ipod touch. I use any one of a number of Trimbles at work.

 

I like the screen and functionality of my ipod touch. I use a dumb phone, though. Why? Well, because getting a smartphone and adding a data plan to it would cost me a good chunk of change. People saying they can't afford a GPS...wtf?! I can't afford a bloody smartphone!

 

The Oregon works pretty well. The waypoint averaging function will compete with the accuracy of some of the Trimbles with post-processing. It won't get me centimeter accuracy like the best ones will, but far better than a smartphone.

 

It's amusing to me that it's mostly the noobs who extol the virtues of the smartphones. Get out there a little bit. Compare the data your phone collects with that of some other dedicated GPS receivers. You'll see eventually that it's not the best tool for every job.

 

Yep...it cost about $1700 for a two year plan for data on the iPhone and currently you have to use AT&T...

I get a company phone, but no smart phone. I have three GPSrs and have picked up about 1300 caches in 1.5 years of caching. The main feature I look for with a GPSr is battery life. Even, so I have ended up getting rechargeable AAs.

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Yep...it cost about $1700 for a two year plan for data on the iPhone and currently you have to use AT&T...

I get a company phone, but no smart phone. I have three GPSrs and have picked up about 1300 caches in 1.5 years of caching. The main feature I look for with a GPSr is battery life. Even, so I have ended up getting rechargeable AAs.

 

You currently have to use AT&T, if you are using an iPhone in the United States of America.

In places like, say Canada, you can go with Bell, Telus, Rogers, Virgin Mobile, Fido .....

 

Yes a smartphone with dataplan is way more expensive than a discreet GPS. Most people who are using the smartphone apps already HAVE a smartphone. Battery life on my iPhone is solved quite easily with a device like a Mili Crystal (which can also charge my Blackberry, or my eXplorist 600 with the lithium battery pack).

 

I have yet to see my iPhone "whitescreen" like a Colorado or Oregon does. My Colorado crashes to a whitescreen on average, twice per geocaching session. I've had it lose all waypoints in the field before too. With a smartphone losing your geocaches loaded is no longer an issue.

 

It's a balance thing. You match your needs with your means. If you have nothing, and are just starting out, a yellow eTrex is most economical. If you have an iPhone or a Droid you're looking at $10 to add geocaching to your abilities vs $100 for a Yellow eTrex or $500 for a modern Garmin device.

 

Things I love about my iPhone over my Colorado

- Map updates, way more frequent. Ability to access dozens of mapsets.

- Up to the second information on geocaches with logs from the Geocaching website

- Ability to log a cache right there, while it's fresh in my mind.

- Crashes less often (actually, hasn't crashed yet on me)

- Ability to use the cellular network to speed up location aquisition

- Ability to access information on the Internet (ie - research for a cache)

- Ability to change voice navigation engine (MapSource = Free, TomTom or Navigon = $50 - no data required)

- Able to use ANT+ peripherals from all ANT+ manufacturers with add-on - heart rate, cadence, pedometer, etc.

- Able to recieve notifications from Groundspeak and I can route directly to the cache with two clicks from that email. FTF is that much easier now.

- Able to participate in other location based games at the same time (Foursquare, Waze, Gowalla, etc, etc)

 

Things I love about my Colorado over my iPhone

 

- Rugged. Can take a drop - even if that drop is into water

- Can load corrected co-ordinates and trailheads and such easily from GSAK

- Auto routing to caches (requires $200 map product in addition to $500 GPS)

- Safer to mount on a bicycle, can use Garmin ANT+ peripherals like heart rate monitor

- Able to share waypoint infomation directly with other Garmin units.

- Can run Wherigo iPhone does that now too so not an advantage anymore

- Easier to develop custom map overlays with cGPSMapper

- No data plan required.

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All right, I can probably provide little insight into this pissing match, and I WILL pick up an ANDROID next month. But just today, I dropped my GPSr, and I have a hunch it would have (not helped) actually KILLED my cell phone.

 

Just saying..... But I seriously WOULD have been carrying my cell phone if it offered caching and instant logging........

 

dadgum. Room for both (although I would keep my GPSr for hiking in the mountains anyway - but I would probably go for a 60csx, as my old (borrowed) 60cx was an old reliable at 26+ hours battery life.

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Great discussion. Lively banter.

 

My prefered (only) geocaching device is a Droid X. I jumped into this thread to see if it could shed some light on the accuracy difference, if any, between a dedicated unit and my business tool (crutch??).

 

As I ask this, I completely understand that not all phone GPS(s) are created equal, as was previously mentioned. My old Samsung Omnia I910, for example, was extremely inaccurate and unuseable as a geocaching device. It locked onto a max of 6 satellites at best and only after several minutes.

 

My Droid X quickly picks up 11 to 13 satellites and seems pretty accurate. Let me pause here to say that I don't like to brag, but I've successfully found 14 caches with the help of my 5 y.o. daughter.

 

Maybe the best question to ask is this: Can we determine the accuracy of a device by simply seeing how many satellites it locks on to or are there other quantities we should measure, other than physically standing side by side with our respective devices.

 

If satellite locks reveals accuracy, do you dedicated GPS guys pick up more sats? Would I do better with a dedicated GPS unit?

 

The only reason I ask is that I've found my device to be up to 12 meters off, at worst, when I make the find. From what others have said, this isn't too uncommon, but I am curious how handicapped I am using this for geocaching.

 

Also, you can flame me if it's important to you. It doesn't matter a great deal to me.

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Wait! What!?! Tadpole? This is the badge of shame that new posters have to wear?

 

Also, did anyone notice a recurring theme throughout this entire thread? Give up?? The misuse of homophones, words that sound alike, but have different spellings, not to be confused with homonyms.

 

 

Sorry. It was driving me absolutely nuts. I had to get it out.

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Maybe the best question to ask is this: Can we determine the accuracy of a device by simply seeing how many satellites it locks on to or are there other quantities we should measure, other than physically standing side by side with our respective devices.

 

If satellite locks reveals accuracy, do you dedicated GPS guys pick up more sats? Would I do better with a dedicated GPS unit?

 

The only reason I ask is that I've found my device to be up to 12 meters off, at worst, when I make the find. From what others have said, this isn't too uncommon, but I am curious how handicapped I am using this for geocaching.

 

 

Find a known benchmark, and tell your device to navigate to that. Lots of "Test your GPS" caches or Benchmarks on the Geocaching.com site. That should give you an idea of what your phone's GPS is capable of. Can't use geocaches to test accuracy, unless someone's out placing with professional surveyor's equipment.

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Now I have the answer I have just got a htc wildfire.

It is amazing the gps is accurate to 2m as good as my hand held gps, I have been out today the gps did not loose its lock it 6 hours of caching! I only stopped when the battery went flat!

the screen is very clear and ronning c:geo it gives loud voice comands when being used as a sat nav on the way to the next cache (turn by turn nav ) a feature thats missing from the Iphone app.

I am a very hard to please person but by god they seem to have done it!!!

Oh and it only cost £160 so it was cheaper than a gps!

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Find a known benchmark, and tell your device to navigate to that. Lots of "Test your GPS" caches or Benchmarks on the Geocaching.com site. That should give you an idea of what your phone's GPS is capable of. Can't use geocaches to test accuracy, unless someone's out placing with professional surveyor's equipment.

 

I would love to try this between my Blackberry Bold and Garmin 60csx. Can you point me to where these are exactly on geoaching.com? I seem to be having trouble finding it.

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Oh wait. I did find benchmark hunting. Are all those definitively accurate and precise?

 

Depends on the benchmark. The ones used for surveying *should* be pretty accurate, but I guess that depends on the skill set of the surveyors.

 

AFAIK known benchmarks, like the ones used by the USGS or other surveying/scientific purposes are the most accurate position reports you're likely to find.

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Oh wait. I did find benchmark hunting. Are all those definitively accurate and precise?

if the benchmark is listed with "adjusted" location, then the coords should be very accurate. if it's listed with a "scaled" location, then it can be highly inaccurate. note that elevation is also listed as being either adjusted or scaled, but you can ignore that part.

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