"Don't take a TB without leaving one" - WHY?

October 22, 2003

I have seen instructions on a number of Travel Bug Hotels, to the effect that you should not take a TB unless you can leave one - sometimes it's suggested that if you take one, you should leave two! It just doesn't make sense to me...if the goal of the TBs is to travel, the owners should be glad they're taken and moved along. Let's say there's a TB hotel near my house, with a bug in it whose goal is to get to Florida; I'm leaving for Florida tomorrow, but I don't have a TB of my own. Do you agree I should NOT take the bug? The cache owner is setting these rules, but I would think that the TB owners would rather their bugs get moving. Just wondering what others think.

InkyCat

24.7k · October 22, 2003

Actually I agree. People I guess want their hotel to have bugs in it at all times like guests.

My take is the hotel should be a quick and easy place to drop off a bug if you have been holding on to one for some time and realize you won't be able to help it out soon.

October 22, 2003

I disagree. Bugs are for moving. If we follow this line of reasoning should we then NOT leave TBs in regular caches? I visited a TB Hotel and took two bugs and left one, or three and left two I don't remember. I got an email from the cache owner tell me how unfair this was etc. The cache was a good distance from my home (in fact in another state) and I was hitting it on the way to visit family. Coincidentally I was going by it again the next week so I stopped to drop off another bug to even the score.

4.1k · October 23, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by InkyCat:
if the goal of the TBs is to travel, the owners should be glad they're taken and moved along.

I have been to a hotel and taken a TB and left simply a log in the book. I was helping that TB to its goal! No guilt here.

I do understand that it's cool for hotels to have guests in it at all times, but I feel that is secondary to the TBs' goals.

-- Do you think lobsters look good on telephones?

October 23, 2003

In your Florida example, I would say move it!

How about a cache where it says please only drop off travel bugs, don't take any. Because the owner wants to come by and grab bugs regularly.

Well, for starters, I wouldn't leave a bug in there, but I also wouldn't be worried to take one if I could help its mission.

Maybe a polite email to the hotel owner to ask what their reasoning is?

Cheers,

Stu

1k · October 25, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by InkyCat:
...Do you agree I should NOT take the bug? The cache owner is setting these rules...

I would take the bug if I could help it on its intended journey. The "take something, leave something" rule is not generally regarded as applicable to travel bugs. Perhaps the cache owners who have posted those rules are not aware of the exception.

worldtraveler

22k · October 26, 2003

quote:
I do understand that it's cool for hotels to have guests in it at all times, but I feel that is secondary to the TBs' goal.

Couldn't agree more.

October 26, 2003

O.K. but what about a person that goes and grabs every bug there......everyday and is not letting anybody else get some......

1.7k · October 26, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by InkyCat:
..... I would think that the TB owners would rather their bugs get moving.....

InkyCat

Exactly! Also, I only handle one bug at a time.

(I tend to shy away from caches that demand you do something. I get enough of that at hime. )

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case...

October 26, 2003

"TB Hotels"? This is a new one one me. Would someone please share an example of one of these? Thanks.

1.7k · October 26, 2003

They have one out by KCI airport. [Make that "was" I can't find it now.]

It is a cache convenient to drivebys (kind of) for folks to drop off or pick up travelbugs.

I.E. If there was a bug going to Chicago, you could place it into a cache East of where you picked it up, or put it in a TB Hotel, and someone could grab is as they were headed there.

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case...

October 26, 2003

I personally have a TB Hotel with a take 1 leave 1 policy. I implemented it for this reason: If you have one in your possession and exchange it for another one, chances are you know how to log a TB. We have has so many TBs disappear due to ignorance of the logging procedures. However, I do not have a problem with cachers emailing me and asking if they could take one to help on its way without leaving one. I even get IOU's from local cachers who grab one and deposit another a few days/weeks later.

Again, I only made this policy to try and keep TBs from going MIA.

The path to insanity is seldom a solitary journey.

October 26, 2003

I have started seeing the 'don't take one without leaving one' comment on regular caches as well. By the same token, should I not leave one in a cache unless there's already one in there for me to take?

The point of TBs is to travel - I help them do so, regardless of whether or not I have one to replace in the cache.

~ Lesley

____________________________

I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel.

When you walk through a storm, hold your head up high,

And don't be afraid of the dark

www.bookcrossing.com Read and Release!

October 26, 2003

quote:
The point of TBs is to travel - I help them do so, regardless of whether or not I have one to replace in the cache

Exactly! Travle Bugs are to travle, not sit in a cache until somebody with another travle bug comes along. That gives the "Extermanators" a better chance of getting the bug, which is bad. The longer TBs sit in caches, the more chance the extermanators have of scarfing them up.

Mooooom! you didn't log my finds!

October 27, 2003

As the owner of several TBs, I can say this: I want mine to move! And I put them out for people to find, spread out there is more of a chance for individuals to find one.

I've noticed in my area the TB hotels seem to be a quick and dirty way for the owner of the hotel to raise his score on TBs found, without the hunting - other people doing the work by dropping the TBs in the backyard as it were.

I don't want my TBs in a hotel with people feeling they can't take it and move it because they don't have one to drop there. I own the TBs - I set their goals and I'm relying on others to get those goals met. If you see one of mine in a hotel (or anywhere) and you can help, send it on it's way. If you can't help it, log your find and leave it for the next one.

October 27, 2003

Everyone has a goal or agenda. Bug owners have goals, hotel owners have goals, geocachers have goals, bug hunters have goals. I tend to think the bug's goal has priority.

Hotel owners probably want to make sure a good stock is available for bug movers, but different areas have different circumstances. So far, my San Francisco hotel has had good circulation (fingers crossed) and I have no rules. Have to admit, when I finally got down to the LAX hotel and it was lean, I was kinda disappointed. Luck of the draw.

It's not a store is it, stocked with 3 westbounds and 3 eastbounds?

That said, however, I do try to do a stocking run every week or two, with a few of bugs, so there's no need for a 1 for 1 rule.

2.5k · October 29, 2003

My take on it?

I think that if you have a cache that is for bugs only, then trading helps so that when someone gets there it's not empty.

However, if the 'hotel' is in a normal cache with other stuff, then I don't see why to do a trade.

October 30, 2003

Folks.... look, take it, log it, relocate it. That is what the owner wants. If I want a trinket to go to a particular place fast, I'll mail it via UPS. This is a game, and supposed to be fun. The worst things to happen to TBs are people stealing them, or losing them. Exterminators are criminals. They probably are still mad at Mom or Dad for taking away their baby bottle. They are probably going to target MY bugs now for saying that, simply proving my point that they are childish bullies. If I find a bug, I'll take it, log it and relocate it. If I can, I'll trade, providing I have some to trade. My partner and I have 24 travel bug tags, and most are placed. I feel that allows us free reign to move other bugs. Who knows if the next place you move it to might not be the exact spot that another cacher can help it achieve it's goal from? We have specific goals for some of ours, but as long as it is out there moving, that is great.

October 30, 2003

can't stand tb hotels with certain rules applying other than take one and leave one. we have one nearby that requires 15 tb in at all times. makes me want to take them all and leave just one. i would not be happy to see mine in there. some sit there for months cause no one stops by with a tb.

Take only pictures, leave only footprints.

October 30, 2003

TAKE 1 LEAVE 2

Sounds like the beginnings of a bug graveyard to me. Bugs and their objectives are the property of their owners, not the cache they are in. Bug hotels are supposed to be fast drive by drop/grab points for bugs on a mission, not a cantral place to go find just any bug. near me there is a bug hotel near Gatwick Airport. the first time I went there, there was only one bug, going where I was the next week, so I grabbed it. the next time I went there to drop one off I'd brought back from the USA to go home, I grabbed one that had just arrived to see the sights. at that time there were 7 bugs in the hotel, 6 going overseas.

Bugs should not stay in the hotels for long. the very purpose of the hotel is to keep them moving. If bugs are going to stick around, it should e in a normal cache, so that it makes a challenge to grab it.

"This Is GC.com If you don't like it, speak up, others may thank you for it."

1.3k · November 25, 2003

There's a TB hotel near me that not only has the take one / leave one rule, but it's a mystery cache. The actual coords are in the 3rd cache of a multi-micro cache.

Right now it's down to a single TB (that has been there over a month) and a lot of IOUs. And here I am with this travel bug key that I'm been encouraged to place somewhere "difficult"...

One bug enters, one bug leaves.

November 25, 2003

Nowadays I watch bugs sit and sit for weeks on end with nobody picking htem up, is that because someone does not have a TB to exchange? If so, that would be silly. The TBs are made to move, so move 'em! I dropped one off a few weeks ago and have watched the cache collect 3 more TBs, all not moving. At this rate all the TBs will be sitting in regular caches and hotels and not having any fun.

1k · November 26, 2003

Hotel owners probably want to make sure a good stock is available for bug movers, but different areas have different circumstances.

I think this is the crux of the problem. I view the take one leave one hotels not as hotels, but prisons, keeping bugs in there for long times, especially if it's not a particularly interesting looking bug.

If a person is going to take the time to set up a Travel Bug hotel, then they should also understand that the upkeep of that hotel is different than regular caches. They should be prepared to restock their hotel with more bugs should the need arise, and as a owner of a bug hotel, the need arises more ofthen than you'd think. I think the take one leave one policy is the lazy man's way of creating a cache that needs little maintenence. Travel Bug Hotels are unique entities and should be maintained as one, not turned into prisons for bugs to languish.

When I first started my hotel, I put 6 bugs in the cache, figuring the "First to Find" people would wipe it out fairly quickly. I've restocked the hotel at least three other times since it's establishment last January. Some of the restocking has been other bugs that I've found, other times it's been more of my own bugs.

1k · November 26, 2003

can't stand tb hotels with certain rules applying other than take one and leave one. we have one nearby that requires 15 tb in at all times. makes me want to take them all and leave just one. i would not be happy to see mine in there. some sit there for months cause no one stops by with a tb.

I am in total agreement with this one. I've had two bugs end up in prisons like that. What a waste. I was fortunate that my bugs got picked up quickly after that, but like you said, others may languish for months.

What a ridiculous requirement.

9.4k · November 26, 2003

It's a silly rule. Travel bugs are meant to travel. Adding a restriction like trading them out doesn't make sense.

May 17, 2004

If I must have a travel bug to to pick one up then just how would a person new to Geocaching ever have the pleasure of moving a travelbug along. One of the neatest things for little kids is to to find thier first travel bug and they usually don't have one to drop off. If your goal is to increase sales of travelbug dog tags then the policy makes sense.

22k · May 17, 2004

Well since GC.com sells Travel Bugs and Jeremy himself said it's a silly rule (not their policy) I'm not sure what we're driving at.

May 17, 2004

If I come upon a Travel Bug hotel, I will move every one that I can help even if I do not currently have a bug to drop. The travel bugs are meant to travel and are not the property of the cache owners so they cannot make rules regarding them.

The more rules a travel bug hotel has, the more it becomes a travel bug prision.

May 17, 2004

Personally i havn't found a hotel yet. I feel that if you can foreward a goal of a TB and you dont have one to trade then why not just take it. If it makes you feel petter place one in it later without taking one. May make a TB sit longer if it doesn't have to.

2.8k · May 18, 2004

I have started seeing the 'don't take one without leaving one' comment on regular caches as well.

Kind of makes it hard for anyone to ever acquire a TB if you need to have one for an exchange!

A TB is not a trade item... it's a take it and leave it someplace else item. No need to "trade" for a TB, though I'm sure no one would complain if you did.

June 19, 2004

O.K. but what about a person that goes and grabs every bug there......everyday and is not letting anybody else get some......

I think is someone is farming a cache then they should be applied to the bat clause from Dr. B.T.'s book of Travelbugology :lol:

June 20, 2004

I watch for TB in my area that I can help move along. Guess I'll start looking for the TB Hotels in the area. Sounds like they need a cleaning every so often :lol:

June 20, 2004

Bah, move it. All this silly rule-making is going to kill the sport. So you piss off he cache owner, he'll get over it, and the bug will move - you got to log a find, everyone is eventually happy

June 20, 2004

I recently found my first bug, while in Aruba. I followed the bug's wishes & moved it along. The cache it was in wasn't a hotel that I could determine. I've been to caches where there was supposed to be a bug in it, but is always not there for whatever reason. Also, I do not seek bugs - I seek caches.

My 2¢ worth...

"Bassmedic"

June 20, 2004

I have to agree with most. Move it. After all, those that don't play fair. EG: Snatches them all, do you think they are going to play with your take 1 leave 1 rule? TB's have a purpose to go somewhere, do something. And I doubt that mission is "I want to sit in a cache for as long as possible".

And As I have just ordered 8 tags, and getting a couple ready for deployment. I have made 2 of them Cacheless TB's meaning they are to be handed from 1 person to the next. not dropped off in a cache. I may even have a 3rd going that way. as for the rest I still thinking of how they will travel.

Edited June 20, 2004 by Dream Alchemist

3.5k · June 20, 2004

Here is the proper way to do a travel bug cache: What A Wonderful World . Yes it is mine. As you will notice I state in RED No need to trade for bugs! I have at times not had bugs in the cache, but almost always do. No problem. My only request is theat you only take one bug per visit. (perhaps I should re-visit that too)

I also have TBs. On each of their pages I state in RED there is no need to trade for my bug. It is meant to move.

Remember the TB is owned by the TB owner, NOT the cache owner!!

Perhaps open defiance of the bug hotel's rules are in order. I would say just avoid the cache, but then that would not be fair to the bug owners, would it.

1.1k · June 20, 2004

I have been giving some thought to opening two TB Hotels here in GA. I live just south of Macon and have easy access to I-75 and I-16. I was thinking of putting TB hotels by each of these interstates so folks traveling through central GA would have a place to drop one off or pick one up.

I was thinking of making a rule of leaving at least one TB in the hotel unless you could help the remaining bug on its journey. If you could then go ahead and take it. What do you think?

Zack

June 21, 2004

I am just about to open up my first TB Hotel - or probably "safehouse" and was wondering about which rules to adopt. Instead of having a "rule" I will probably go with a "it would be nice, if..." approach and a "make a responsible case-by-case judgement". :huh:

If I am traveling (mostly business trips), I do not always have the time to go Caching as much as I would like, so I prefer TB Hotels to which I always try to bring some TBs along. Now if it is empty, I am surely dissapointed so a "keep some in here rule" is nice.

On the other hand:

if the number is below the suggested/requested limit and

for some reason I am out of TBs and

there is one TB in there that has the goal of going to Europe and

I am about to board a plane to Europe in a few hours,

should I really leave it in there?

All rules have exceptions...

Olaf

June 22, 2004

"Take one, leave one" in a TB Hotel sounds like a TB Jail, or maybe TB hell. "Sorry, but you're our guest until someone decides to take your place. No, your mission is not more important than that." :bad:

IMO, a hotel ought to be just like any other cache; sometimes the swag is good (bugs present) and sometimes maybe not. As for myself, I have no guilt about liberating an imprisoned travel bug and helping it on its way.

2k · June 22, 2004

Take it.

1.8k · June 22, 2004

This "take one - leave one" rule is the most bogus around.

TB Hotels are meant to be a "clearing house" for TBs..........if you think you can help one, TAKE IT. TAKE 2, TAKE 3, etc..........

Take em' all....just don't bogue em'........

I have taken 3, left 2, ..whatever.....but I ALWAYS try to help them accomplish their goals.

Enuf said,

JayBee

June 23, 2004

Just returned from an out of state journey. Came across a TB hotel and "had" to leave 6 or 8 TBs there as I had none to trade out. Seems silly to me. Now I could understand almost understand not taking the last one without a TB to put in its place, but to just let them sit and sit and sit . . . . . .

July 2, 2004

If I am traveling (mostly business trips), I do not always have the time to go Caching as much as I would like, so I prefer TB Hotels to which I always try to bring some TBs along. Now if it is empty, I am surely dissapointed so a "keep some in here rule" is nice.

I am fortunate to have a wonderful TB motel in my area!

It's only a 2-months-old and 107 TB's have been there. (I think it's a very good number, isn't it?)

It's located on a nice trail and is a 1 star (Neo-cacher friendly)!!

No rules like you-can't-take-it-without-leaving-one, and this-many-bugs-have-to-be-left-here.

No suggestions to exchange bugs.

Instead of "controlling" how we take/drop TB's, the cache owner puts his effort in maintaining the cache.

Like Mr.TravelingViking, he seems to travel a lot on business.

He posts "Travel Advisory" (and encourages others to do so); A few days before departure he annonces where he's going and gives us a deadline to drop off bugs so that he can take them with him.

When the cache is getting low on TB's, he makes deposits himself.

But as this cache becomes popular, eventually he won't have to do it anymore.

Looks like he already has some "repeaters" (I'll probaly bring more TB's to

this cache too)

Here is my 2cents. what I learned from this TB motel:

You don't need the exchange/minimum number rule.

A very well-maintained, straight-foward (no rules), and easy (1 star would be great for beginner like me ) cache would attract more cachers, thus the cache will start overflowing with TB's.

Edited July 2, 2004 by MustardSeed

3k · July 5, 2004

I wonder who is more foolish ... the people who try to make up their own rules for the game, or the people that actually follow those made-up rules?

I personally have a TB Hotel with a take 1 leave 1 policy. I implemented it for this reason: If you have one in your possession and exchange it for another one, chances are you know how to log a TB. We have has so many TBs disappear due to ignorance of the logging procedures.

It's true that many TBs disappear, although I do not know if that is in any way related to "an ignorance of logging procedures." In addition, anyone could "honor" this silly "take 1 - leave 1" policy without logging the TBs at all.

And lastly, it's ridiculous to make up silly rules that one can't possibly enforce. Some people will undoubtedly take that as a "challenge," and the rule will actually cause the unwanted action/event to occur.

Edited July 5, 2004 by BassoonPilot

6.4k · July 5, 2004

Remember the TB is owned by the TB owner, NOT the cache owner!!

Exactly. The cache owner doesn't set the rules for the TB. If I can help a TB towards it's goal, I'm moving it, just like the person who OWNS the TB asks me to do via the TB page. I've yet to come across a TB that says "don't take me and move me toward my goal unless you have another TB to drop off in the cache".

July 5, 2004

Well, that would explain why one of my personal bugs I dropped in a travel bug motel in Tucson 2 months ago is still sitting there.

30 more days, and it can claim residency.

Yup, seems silly that it has had numerous visitors since, and yet that "There always MUST be 5 TB's left here" rule seems too have kept mine in limbo.

March 30, 2005

I'll take as many travel bugs as I can, because I will move them as quickly as I can and I will move them to different caches.

I don't like to see more than one travel bug in a cache at one time, because I like to move travel bugs to different caches.

On Jan. 15, 2005 I took eight travel bugs from a cache in Apache Junction that the owner had designated as a "travel bug hotel". The cache owner didn't like this, but I felt that it was okay for me to do this, because several geocachers had visited this cache without taking any travel bugs. I don't understand why one cache should have so many travel bugs, so I took these travel bugs to move to eight different caches.

I moved the travel bugs as soon as I could. I did not move these travel bugs to micro caches or to highly exposed urban caches, but I did move all of these travel bugs to easily accessible caches and to caches that fit the theme of the travel bugs. A geocacher who owned two of the travel bugs that I picked up sent me e-mails thanking me for picking up his travel bugs and moving them to good caches (one in South Mountain Park in Phoenix, another in Camelback Mountain Park in Phoenix).

Here is my log entry for the cache. This is what travel bugs are supposed to do. They aren't supposed to be sitting together in one cache and are not supposed to be passed up by visiting geocachers.

:laughing: Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

March 30, 2005

I generally do *not* stick to the take one/leave one rule. My pet theory is that "on average" I do not take or leave any bugs. They come, they go out. I do not acquire them and keep them, so I am less concerened about take one/leave one.

If a TB Hotel owner has this policy I follow it, just so I don't get someone mad at me. I did ask someone to go to a TB Hotel and take one of mine out since they were going on a trip to Scotland and offered take my TB there, the proviso was that one of us would go back and drop another TB later.

I am not overly fond of caches with special rules for logging them.

1.2k · March 30, 2005

I run two local travel bug hotels, including the local airport one. My minimum for bugs in the cache is zero.

The reason for this: before I created these hotels, I dealt with a local TB cache which (1) was a study in dampness (1) had a 4 bug rule (3) was in a BAD location, i.e. right next to a trash dump in a forest!

I remember deliberately violating the rule when I visited because I was going on a trip soon, and a bug wanted to fly where I was going. A second bug, a plush bear, needed to go too, but I felt bad at the time breaking the rules already, so I left it.

Long story short: that bear stayed in that cache so long that one ear rotted off of it. Damaged TB because of a stupid rule.

I will no longer follow any such rule of any TB hotel I ever find. If I can help a bug on it's way, I'm helping the thing.

(Incidently, I reference this very thread on the page of one of my TB caches.) :laughing:

Edited March 30, 2005 by Sparrowhawk

March 30, 2005

Having traveled widely and seen the don't-take-one-if-you-don't-leave-one rule in force at many travel bug hotels, when I started my own hotel I put the same rule in place. This led to a lot of ill will, most of it directed at me, and in the end, I had to admit I was the one in the wrong. People didn't like the idea of their bugs sitting in my travel bug hotel not moving because *I* wanted to keep my cache stocked with bugs for trading. And they're right -- their bugs should keep moving. So I dropped that rule and now you can come take them *all* if you can help them toward their goal.

Since I do travel widely, I often bring home bugs and wind up restocking said travel bug hotel -- and they generally move on again in fairly short order.

The only rule that remains on said hotel now is that you have to email us (the wife and I) to get the actual proper coordinates for the travel bug hotel and state that you understand how to log a bug in and out. If you can do that, it demonstrates that you can read instructions and write a simple message, and if you can, I'm more than happy to send you the coordinates.

Since I'm one of those obssessive geeks who checks his email seven thousand times a day, people rarely have to wait for very long, usually only an hour or two, before I reply with the coordinates. (The cache is listed as a mystery cache so people don't make the mistake of visiting the posted coordinates.)

I can recall only one occasion where I didn't make with the coordinates, and that was when a message came in from someone who, from their message, appeared to be a nine-year-old AOL user: "HEY MAN SEND ME DA CORDINAETS FOR UR CACH3!!11! WTF" I replied asking if he understood how to log travel bugs in and out of the site and got something like this back: "WUT DO U M3AN?!!!? WTF I KNOW HOW 2 TAEK A BUG OUT OF A CAHCE!11!! U VISIT DA CACH3 AND TEH BUG IS THEIR RIGHT?!!!!?!? OMG LOL" So, that user never got sent the coordinates.

Since that rule went into effect, not one bug has disappeared from the hotel, unlogged and unaccounted for. Yet, dozens of bugs move through the hotel, so it seems to be working.

My only regret is that I didn't think of this solution in the beginning. Would have saved a lot of ill will -- but I was too bent on doing things the way I'd seen other travel bug hotels do 'em.

-- Lemur

Edited March 30, 2005 by Otter and Lemur

"Don't take a TB without leaving one" - WHY?

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