+BeccaDay Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 I am fairly new (less than a year) to geocaching and even newer to earthcaching. I am wondering about a situation I encountered and I would really like to hear an opinion or two as to whether the person who had listed the EC was inappropriate with their response. I did an earth cache with another party. This other party happened to be Creationists and believe in Intelligent Design. The sign that was involved in the cache requirements stated that this particular feature was several million years old. When the other party logged the answers to the questions required by the cache they stated that the sign had said _____ but it was contrary to their personal beliefs. They only made this brief statement, did not harass the cache owner in any way and their brief note was polite in tone (they sent me a copy of their email). The owner of the cache wrote a brief but nasty response and deleted their log stating that he didn't have time for Creationists. Now I REALLY don't want to turn this into a debate about religion or the origins of the earth. What I would like to know is, who is at fault here? Aren't we all entitled to our own beliefs? My friends had met the requirements of the cache, found the site, answered the questions, etc. Or was this simple statement of personal belief so inappropriate? I guess my feeling is that this person has taken their little bit of power in the situation and taken it too far. Maybe I am wrong. When I logged my visit to the site I simply stated the answer to the question because I wanted mine to count and didn't want to ruffle any feathers. But it just really bothers me how my friends were treated. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment
+Arby Gee Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 As you describe the situation, I agree with you completely. The requirement of Earthcaching is that you demonstrate that you learned something. There is no requirement that you have to believe what you learned. I'm not a Creationist myself, but I believe your friends' views should be treated with respect. Personally, I wouldn't blame your friends if they reported the situation to the reviewer. Quote Link to comment
+geodarts Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 It seems simple to me me. if your friends answered the required questions they completed the task and the log should stand. Geologists themselves have been known to disagree about some things. For an earthcache owner to delete a log because he or she does not like a contrary view, expressing a personal belief, which was apparently stated only in the email answering the required questions, is not proper. Unless there is some other issue relating to the log itself, or something else is going on here, your friends could appeal the deletion to Groundspeak to ask that the log be reinstated. Quote Link to comment
+GEO WALKER Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 If in fact they relayed the information from the sign where then is the error? If they injected their personal beliefs, based on Creationism, I personally would not delete their submittal, based on the fact that there may be a difference in opinion. Is not a difference of opinion, a form of education and understanding? Quote Link to comment
+narcissa Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 As long as there was no mention about creationism on the cache page, deleting the log seems like an overreaction. If it was my cache, I might privately wonder why someone who holds those beliefs would choose to do Earthcaches in the first place, but as long as they completed the requirements I'd let the log stand. If the remarks about religious beliefs made it onto the cache page, then it's a different issue. The cache page is not a platform for debate or proselytizing. Quote Link to comment
+TerryDad2 Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 As long as there was no mention about creationism on the cache page, deleting the log seems like an overreaction. If it was my cache, I might privately wonder why someone who holds those beliefs would choose to do Earthcaches in the first place, but as long as they completed the requirements I'd let the log stand. If the remarks about religious beliefs made it onto the cache page, then it's a different issue. The cache page is not a platform for debate or proselytizing. I second that. I've had a few emails with similar responses to some of my EarthCaches. The cachers wrote appropriate logs. No fuss no muss, the logs remain. Given the conditions described, there is no reason to delete the log or write such a response. Quote Link to comment
+Lostby7 Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 (edited) If it was my cache, I might privately wonder why someone who holds those beliefs would choose to do Earthcaches in the first place, but as long as they completed the requirements I'd let the log stand. Agreed. In fact I was asked by one person to create an EarthCache for him. After getting it done he informed me that he had some problems with my writeup namely ages of the planet and such as those dates did not agree with his beliefs....I was a bit surprised that a creationist would have any interest in EarthCaches at all...that said, I agree that if the requirements were filled the log must stand. Edited August 19, 2010 by Lostby7 Quote Link to comment
Orly Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Right around this time, I usually say: Don't sweat the small stuff---and it is all small stuff. Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 (edited) We have had issues with an ECO, the photos have always been the first issue and our logs get deleted. Then when we upload photos that are more to the ECO's standards, but not ours, then some of the answers become wrong. There is one in every crowd, some CO's are just mean and abuse their power. Appeal to Groundspeak and ask that the log be reinstated. Edited August 20, 2010 by Manville Possum Hunters Quote Link to comment
hoosier guy Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 If it was my cache, I might privately wonder why someone who holds those beliefs would choose to do Earthcaches in the first place, but as long as they completed the requirements I'd let the log stand. Agreed. In fact I was asked by one person to create an EarthCache for him. After getting it done he informed me that he had some problems with my writeup namely ages of the planet and such as those dates did not agree with his beliefs....I was a bit surprised that a creationist would have any interest in EarthCaches at all...that said, I agree that if the requirements were filled the log must stand. Sounds like they did want was asked so deleting a log would be wrong. BTW not everyone who believes in God holds to the literal seven day creation story. I go to earth caches because they take me to neat places and I generally learn something. Nothing I have seen so far shakes my faith. Quote Link to comment
+kwcahart Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Right on Hoosier Guy!! It is not hard at all for me to believe in God AND Geology! Not hard at all. I would say a review would reinstate that log, and it should. Quote Link to comment
+Konnarock Kid & Marge Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Right on Hoosier Guy!! It is not hard at all for me to believe in God AND Geology! Not hard at all. I would say a review would reinstate that log, and it should. Right on to YOU and Hoosier guy! We deeply believe in God and nothing that the science of geology has presented shakes that faith. Sometimes we get too literal in our translations. God must have a chuckle every once in a while at our expense! Please forgive me but this situation reminds me of my favorite quotes. The poet Edwin Arlington Robinson was accused of looking at the World as a "prison house" and in answering his critic he said, "The World is not a prison house but it is kind of spiritual kindergarten where millions of bewildered infants are trying to spell God with the wrong blocks!" Thanks and now I will get out of the pulpit! P.S. The log should remain. God doesn't have to be involved so the second best it Groundspeak. Your friends should appeal! Quote Link to comment
+narcissa Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Perhaps it would be wise not to make comments about the validity of other people's religious beliefs. Quote Link to comment
+Konnarock Kid & Marge Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 I might privately wonder why someone who holds those beliefs would choose to do Earthcaches in the first place.......... If that is not a 'negative' comment on someone's religion what is? Just because they believe God created what they were seeing just a few thousand years ago....they should avoid ECs? The subject matter was deleting a log because it reflected someone's beliefs and if you read again, we did not agree with the deletion nor do we agree with the biblical interpretation! I believe someone else said they were not a creationist and of course they didn't agree with that view! Unlike you, while we may disagree with others we respect their right to their view! Because we don't find a conflict with science doesn't mean others don't have the issue and that is OK. Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Right on Hoosier Guy!! It is not hard at all for me to believe in God AND Geology! Not hard at all. I would say a review would reinstate that log, and it should. Right on to YOU and Hoosier guy! We deeply believe in God and nothing that the science of geology has presented shakes that faith. Sometimes we get too literal in our translations. God must have a chuckle every once in a while at our expense! Please forgive me but this situation reminds me of my favorite quotes. The poet Edwin Arlington Robinson was accused of looking at the World as a "prison house" and in answering his critic he said, "The World is not a prison house but it is kind of spiritual kindergarten where millions of bewildered infants are trying to spell God with the wrong blocks!" Thanks and now I will get out of the pulpit! P.S. The log should remain. God doesn't have to be involved so the second best it Groundspeak. Your friends should appeal! Amen brother KK, I agree. Science does not shake my faith in God either. I love God and enjoy science. Remember what happened 10 years ago on this date? Quote Link to comment
+narcissa Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 (edited) I might privately wonder why someone who holds those beliefs would choose to do Earthcaches in the first place.......... If that is not a 'negative' comment on someone's religion what is? Just because they believe God created what they were seeing just a few thousand years ago....they should avoid ECs? Earthcaches are obviously heavily based in science. For some people, science and religion are irreconcilable. There's nothing wrong with that. I just know that I, personally, avoid things that conflict with my beliefs because I don't wish to engage in theological arguments with strangers. I do wonder what compelled this person to do an Earthcache under such circumstances - because I wouldn't - but I make no judgments about their beliefs. Wondering is not condemning. It disturbs me to see comments about others taking the bible "too literally." The validity of this person's religious beliefs is not at issue here. Let's just all be a little more careful about the way we word things, hmm? Edited September 11, 2010 by narcissa Quote Link to comment
+mtn-man Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Remember what happened 10 years ago on this date? Gas was spiking at a $1.70 a gallon? Oh, you mean nine years ago. Probably best not to go there. Nothing to see here. Move along. Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 (edited) Remember what happened 10 years ago on this date? Gas was spiking at a $1.70 a gallon? Oh, you mean nine years ago. Probably best not to go there. Nothing to see here. Move along. No, I was asking KK about something that happened 10 years ago on this date. But I do see where you misunderstood, I don't want to go there either. But as far as your "nothing to see" and "move along" comment, I find it insulting. This is why I don't comment much in the forums, always one in the crowd that wants to go off topic or flame someone. I feel like I have as much right to post on topic in this forum as any other PM. Edited September 12, 2010 by Manville Possum Hunters Quote Link to comment
+BeccaDay Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 Thank you everyone for your comments. I really was mostly trying to figure out proper caching decorum as I am fairly new and have not had any seasoned cacher explain the rules to me. It seems as though the cache owner shouldn't have behaved that way, considering all of your posts. Again, let's not turn this into a religious debate. I have my own strong personal convictions regarding this manner (which any of you can know if you would like to contact me privately) but in my experience these discussions online never turn out well. Religion just means too much to us to be able to discuss it without knowing a person or at least reading body language. Thank you! Quote Link to comment
+narcissa Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Thank you everyone for your comments. I really was mostly trying to figure out proper caching decorum as I am fairly new and have not had any seasoned cacher explain the rules to me. It seems as though the cache owner shouldn't have behaved that way, considering all of your posts. Again, let's not turn this into a religious debate. I have my own strong personal convictions regarding this manner (which any of you can know if you would like to contact me privately) but in my experience these discussions online never turn out well. Religion just means too much to us to be able to discuss it without knowing a person or at least reading body language. Thank you! Did your friend get the log restored? Quote Link to comment
+BeccaDay Posted September 14, 2010 Author Share Posted September 14, 2010 Did your friend get the log restored? They waited a few weeks and then re-submitted, just giving the answers. The owner did not delete their log. So I guess it all turned out OK. Quote Link to comment
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