One landowners thoughts

[SueZQ68]

Attached below is the post I made after encountering one of many groups of folks wondering around on our land. After visiting with the couple, I spent a few minutes searching and found a log sheet with evidence that well over 150 groups of people had wondered "off the beaten path" and onto our property to locate a geocache having been placed there without any discussion or permission of the landowners (me). While I am not especially angried by this turn of events, I am rathered cautioned. I only hope this produces healthy discussion and a respect for the property owners rights renewed.

 

HI! My name is Susie. I would like to address the encounter on Aug 11, described by the Hintoners. I am the owner of the property that this cache has been located since February 2009. My family has owned, and resided on, this property since the mid-1800's. Yes, it is a beautiful place to be cherished and shared. Ever since the county created a public access easement for the county road that goes through our property we have struggled with the issues of trespassing. While I have little problem with those who are respectful and "take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints," the reality is that many have used our property as a dump site leaving everything from a water bottle to household/commercial garbage and appliances that we are then responsible for removing; as well as camped, set fires (a serious risk), fished, hiked, hunted and basically used and sometimes abused our land like a public park. Liability concerns are always an issue. True, there is no fencing along the river side of the road. This is due to the fact that our stretch of the river happens to lie on the lowest point topographically and on average every two years the river floods, washing thousands of dollars of labor and materials downstream. Also true is the fact that at the approximate site of the cache there was no "Posted No Trespassing" sign. I have at least 5 times in the past 15 years, the last being March of 2010, posted such signs along the property. They seem to "mysteriously" disappear each summer. Either way is is still private property and should be respected as such.

While I was not fully familiar with geocaching, I had heard about it before. After basic research of the website, I find its' intentions and concept intriguing enough to consider altering an upcoming vacation to possibly include this activity. However, I also discovered while researching that there is only a minor warning to those extablishing a cache, and even less caution to those searching them out, to be aware of and obtain permission of the landowner to access these locations. All of this said, my concerns focus more on safety both for those who hunt cache as well as the residents of the areas they are located. By not acquiring proper permission to place this cache on our property, this person knowingly invited the entire world via the world wide web into access of my and my family's abode and sanctuary. While I would like to believe all are living by the same rules and standards, none of us are that foolish. The first step that put this situation into motion only proves this point. I would like to thank all of you who hae played by "the rules" and wish you safety and joy in your gecaching ventures.

I have collected this particular cache and will after discussing with my father, sisters, brothers, and children, prayerfully reconsider whether to re-establish it. I hope to have information posted by the end of August. God Bless!

[MisterEFQ]

Its nice to see a reasonable land owner like you come here and actually start a discussion, instead of yelling at us.

 

Note that if you want to re-establish it, you can contact the cache owner (CO) and ask him to put a warning on the cache to be respectfull, that its on private property and to find the cache and leave when they are done.

[+BuckeyeClan]

It's a shame that someone put a cache on your property without permission. Did you figure out how to contact the cache owner, and have the cache archived? If you don't, the coordinates will still be on the website, and people may still come looking for the cache if they don't read what you posted. Even if you decide to begin geocaching, and eventually decide to allow a cache on your property, you might prefer to put out your own cache. That way you'll know exactly what it is, where it is, and can better determine if it is causing problems. Thank you for being so understanding about the situation! I hope you can get it resolved quickly.

[Andronicus]

Wow. Great post. Brings up so many issues.

 

If the cacher knew it was private property, what the heck was he doing.

How did the reviewer let this one get buy? I think that the reviewers are supposed to check for property issues using government maps etc. Did the cache owner lie to the reviewer, claiming to have permissions?

etc. etc.

 

Anyway, thank you for being so understanding.

 

Now that you are checking out geocaching, you should realy contact the reviewer and let him know what has happend. He will do the web site work from there. He can be contacted by opening up the cache page. At the bottom, select "see all logs", then agian scowl down to the bottom, and you will see a "published" log. The guy who "published" the cache is the reviewer. Click on the name. That will bring up his profile. There will be a link to e-mail him in his profile.

[+DragonsWest]

A sad reality.

 

We discussed something of this nature in another thread. Some property owners are never aware, some become aware and angered and some embrace the game and do what the can to encourage responsible geocaching.

 

It is my hope the property owner may arrive at an amicable agreement with the person who placed the cache and that geocachers respect the property owners rights.

[Luckless]

There should be a note in the geocache which congratulates members for having found the cache and explains what it is for those who don't know what it is. The copy of the note I have here in front of me that I copied from this website says:

"Geocaching is open to everyone with a GPS and a sense of adventure. There are similar sites all over the world. the organization has its home on the internet, Visit our website if you want to learn more, or have any comments:

http://www.geocaching.com

If this container needs to be removed for any reason, please let us know. We apologize, and will be HAPPY TO MOVE IT." (caps mine)

If the geocache is on private property or results in people wandering onto private property this is a violation of the guidelines for cache placement. You can contact the Groundspeak staff and ask them to remove the listing.

Perhaps try- contact@geocaching.com

Since you have signed up to be a member you may want to contact the owner and, assuming they are reasonable and not belligerent, try talking with them about relocating the cache to a more acceptable place so to avoid reporting the badly placed cache and them to Groundspeak.

[+dbrierley]

Susie:

 

It's unfortunate that a geocache was placed on your property, reviewed and published without your permission. What is the identification code of the geocache? It begins with "GC" and can be found in the upper right corner of the cache listing in Geocaching.com.

 

As mentioned before, if you decide to prohibit caches on your property, please post a "Needs Archived" note on the cache listing to notify the reviewer. As for the cache itself, different landowners deal with them in different ways; some discard them, some turn them in to the police, and others return them to the persons who placed them.

 

The permission issue comes up regularly in the forums. Here are some recent threads:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=257629

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=257026

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=256117

[hoosier guy]

I commend you for such a reasonable response. I hope others will respect your land as much as you do.

[+Team Shiney]

This is one of the better written posts I have read in a while. Both the original poster and the replies have been very adult. Thanks for dealing with our hobby without the shouting. Other then you posting a Needs Archived log as a last resort I think you have been given good advice.

 

Oh and this is your first find! Be sure to log it before it is archived.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Team Shiney

[+ihorn]

To the OP,

Thank you for not just flying off the handle. You have shown to be an adult unlike many of the people of age to be called an adult. As far as the found cache I would try to contact the CO and ask them to archive the cache, and come by to pick up the cache. Then you would be free as others have said to place your own that you can fully monitor on your land if you so choose.

 

To all the Repliers,

Like has already been stated you have all been very adult in this conversation. That is a very difficult thing to find on an internet forum. Thank you.

[+Team Cotati]

150 'groups? What is that? What GC# is this all about?

 

Sumpin fishy in Denmark.

[+t4e]

Wow. Great post. Brings up so many issues.

 

If the cacher knew it was private property, what the heck was he doing.

How did the reviewer let this one get buy? I think that the reviewers are supposed to check for property issues using government maps etc. Did the cache owner lie to the reviewer, claiming to have permissions?

etc. etc.

 

Anyway, thank you for being so understanding.

 

 

reviewers can't possibly identify all the private properties

its easy when they are marked on the maps, like parks and conservation areas, but there are trail systems here that are on private property but the owner of the land is allowing the trails to stay

 

most times in such cases as a CO you can't even begin to try finding the property owner to ask for permission

[+Ecylram]

Wow. Great post. Brings up so many issues.

 

If the cacher knew it was private property, what the heck was he doing.

How did the reviewer let this one get buy? I think that the reviewers are supposed to check for property issues using government maps etc. Did the cache owner lie to the reviewer, claiming to have permissions?

etc. etc.

 

Anyway, thank you for being so understanding.

 

 

reviewers can't possibly identify all the private properties

its easy when they are marked on the maps, like parks and conservation areas, but there are trail systems here that are on private property but the owner of the land is allowing the trails to stay

 

most times in such cases as a CO you can't even begin to try finding the property owner to ask for permission

I'll second those comments. In some areas in the west BLM land can be checkerboarded with private property. A hiker could cross private property many times and not know it.

[+addisonbr]

150 'groups? What is that? What GC# is this all about?

 

Sumpin fishy in Denmark.

My guess is simply that the OP may not be well-versed in the language of geocaching.

 

My next guess is that this refers to GC1N3T7.

[+t4e]

looking at the map of the area, the cache looks to be barely few meters off a public road though, plus there seem to be more in the series along the same stretch of road

Edited August 18, 2010 by t4e

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Wow. Great post. Brings up so many issues.

 

If the cacher knew it was private property, what the heck was he doing.

How did the reviewer let this one get buy? I think that the reviewers are supposed to check for property issues using government maps etc. Did the cache owner lie to the reviewer, claiming to have permissions?

etc. etc.

 

Anyway, thank you for being so understanding.

 

 

reviewers can't possibly identify all the private properties

its easy when they are marked on the maps, like parks and conservation areas, but there are trail systems here that are on private property but the owner of the land is allowing the trails to stay

 

most times in such cases as a CO you can't even begin to try finding the property owner to ask for permission

I'll second those comments. In some areas in the west BLM land can be checkerboarded with private property. A hiker could cross private property many times and not know it.

It is not the Reviewer's job to determine whether the cache has adequate permission.

 

It is the Cache Owner's responsibility to determine what level if any of permission is 'adequate'.

 

If the Cache Owner cannot do that then he has no business hiding a cache there.

 

The Cache Owner asserts by checking off two boxes at the bottom of every new cache listing submission stating that he has read and will abide by the Guidelines and Terms of Use.

 

By checking those two boxes the Cache Owner states, among other things, that this cache placement has adequate permission. Unless the Reviewer has reason to believe differently he accepts the Cache Owner's statement.

 

Our whole game is based on the Reviewer's ability to trust the Cache Owners statements.

Edited August 18, 2010 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+power69]

If the cacher knew it was private property,

If the no trespassing signs were down at the time of hiding, the hider could have assumed it was public property.

how far in on the property was it?

nobody wants to be arrested for trespassing.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

Our whole game is based on the Reviewer's ability to trust the Cache Owners statements.

 

It's not just reviewers. Seekers of geocachers have to trust the cache owners statements as well. In another thread there was a discussion about whether a cache owner should be required to included some text in the listing such as "Permission has been granted by the property owner to find this cache." if there is any question as to whether access is allowed. When there isn't anything in the cache listing about property access other geocachers can only assume that there is adequate permission to seek the cache. One has to wonder if any of those No Trespassing signs that were torn down were in place when some of the finders looked for the cache.

 

I did want to mention that it's extremely unlikely that any of the other property issues (garbage, hunting/fishing on the property, building fires, etc) have anything to do with the geocache or geocachers. It's really unfortunate that so many people are disrespectful of property owned by others. It's equally unfortunate that proper permission was not obtained by the cache owner (assuming it would have been granted).

 

I don't really buy the argument that it's often difficult to determine who the property owner is. If a cache owner can't determine who the property owner is because it's "hard" that's no excuse for placing a cache in a location anyway.

[+Druce_n_Eulla]

This is barely off a public road. I was thinking it was inside a wooded area where people may hike. No body in their right mind would think that the side of the road by the water would be anything but public or that anyone would care as people probably walk that stretch all the time. Not the CO's fault here at all. Usually the bank of a stream or river is public property especially if it is stocked yearly for the fishing season. Not sure about this area though but an easy mistake to make. Problems like these arise though but in this case it was an easy mistake.

[+lachupa]

Looking at the satellite view, it really looks like it's about 5 feet off the road. Wouldn't that technically still be part of the right of way and "owned" by the state?

[+Zwack_&_Irish_Eyes]

Well, it's just off of a public right of way, and the property owner admits that frequently (through no fault of their own) there are no "no trespassing" signs. I can see why the cache owner might have thought that it was an acceptable place to place it and that permission wasn't needed.

 

Suzie, if you can get in touch with the cache owner and explain this to them they should be perfectly willing to move their cache. If you are willing to give permission to place this on your property then the cache owner will probably be more than willing to work with you to place it in a location that is acceptable to you.

 

Z.

[+Team Cotati]

150 'groups? What is that? What GC# is this all about?

 

Sumpin fishy in Denmark.

My guess is simply that the OP may not be well-versed in the language of geocaching.

 

My next guess is that this refers to GC1N3T7.

 

My guess is that we shall see in a couple of weeks.

 

Let's just say that for now, I remain a skeptic.

[+patned]

Looking at the satellite view, it really looks like it's about 5 feet off the road. Wouldn't that technically still be part of the right of way and "owned" by the state?

 

That isn't a valid argument. I have rights of way across my front yard for the state, the city, the power company, the sewer line, the cable TV provider, the phone company, etc. That does not give anyone the right to do something unrelated to specific maintenance in my yard, I still 'own' it.

 

Even if everyone agreed that this is on the state right of way for the road, and they are the 'owner', all that would mean is that permission would then be required from the state roads department.

 

The OP owns the property the cache is on. Please respect their wishes rather than try to find ways to justify circumventing them.

 

Lachupa, this isn't directed to you in any negative way, you just own the statement I quoted.

 

Ed

[+chrisandjanet]

I used to do quite a bit of property research in a former life, so I know a little bit about the language used in property descriptions. Perhaps someone with surveying knowledge could correct me if I'm wrong.

 

The OP says there is an "easement" for a county road across the property. Quite often, easements are written for specific activities. Public right-of-way does not always apply. For example, if the easement is written something like "a 10 foot wide easement for the purposes of accessing the river", then stepping one foot off the road to have a smoke or something would equate to tresspassing.

 

I agree, though - it can be difficult to determine such things without a pretty good knowledge of how things work in your area. Not an excuse, but perhaps a reason why more people don't research such issues.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

If the cacher knew it was private property,

If the no trespassing signs were down at the time of hiding, the hider could have assumed it was public property.

how far in on the property was it?

nobody wants to be arrested for trespassing.

 

Why assume it is public property? I always assume it is private until I check it out. Just because there are no "Keep Out" signs does not mean it is public!

 

Hiders need to use some common sense!

[+Druce_n_Eulla]

If the cacher knew it was private property,

If the no trespassing signs were down at the time of hiding, the hider could have assumed it was public property.

how far in on the property was it?

nobody wants to be arrested for trespassing.

 

Why assume it is public property? I always assume it is private until I check it out. Just because there are no "Keep Out" signs does not mean it is public!

 

Hiders need to use some common sense!

Well in this case most would assume it is public property considering it is a small area of land between the road and river that allows for stream access. No houses on that side. The majority of river banks such as this are public for this reason.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Druce_n_Eulla

[+lachupa]

 

Lachupa, this isn't directed to you in any negative way, you just own the statement I quoted.

 

Ed

 

I didn't take it in a negative way and I didn't mean it in a negative way - what?

 

I was really asking a question. My understanding was that a state owned road includes some specific distance on either side - 10 feet or something to that effect.

 

We have some land in the mountains. Its on the same road that my parents live on. A few years ago we all got letters from the guy who lives further up the road asking for us all to sign away some portion of our land to the state so it could be turned over to the state for maintenance. I don't recall the particulars but the state would only take over the road if they had 25 feet or whatever it was.

 

So my question is, if this is a state road and the state owns 25 total feet then wouldn't a cache placed this close to the road be on state owned land?

 

Either way I would tend to side against annoying someone. I would be within my "rights" to place a cache in the corner of my front lawn whether my neighbors like it or not, but would that really be worth doing?

 

just because you can doesn't mean you should

[+Team Cotati]

"would mean is that permission would then be required from the state roads department."

 

I think that the archiving of around 234,722 geocaches is called for right about now.

 

Too funny.

 

You can't possibly imagine how I wish that I were the owner of this GC1N3T7, geocache.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Team Cotati

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

If the cacher knew it was private property,

If the no trespassing signs were down at the time of hiding, the hider could have assumed it was public property.

how far in on the property was it?

nobody wants to be arrested for trespassing.

 

Why assume it is public property? I always assume it is private until I check it out. Just because there are no "Keep Out" signs does not mean it is public!

 

Hiders need to use some common sense!

Well in this case most would assume it is public property considering it is a small area of land between the road and river that allows for stream access. No houses on that side. The majority of river banks such as this are public for this reason.

 

But how hard is it to check with the town's tax office? Most towns in Rhode Island have their tax plat maps online! Five minutes and you can be sure.

[Andronicus]

True, there is no fencing along the river side of the road. This is due to the fact that our stretch of the river happens to lie on the lowest point topographically and on average every two years the river floods, washing thousands of dollars of labor and materials downstream.

Don't know what state you live in, but here in Alberta, rivers beds are public land. the river bed is defined as up to the "ordinary high water mark". If it floods there every two years, it may be that this is below the ordinary high water mark, and therefor actualy public land. You would need to consult a land titles layer in your state for the correct answer to that one.

[+Team Cotati]

August 18 by SueZQ68 (1 found)

 

As the landowner where this cache is located, and after much prayer and discussion I have collected this cache and am requesting it be archived as the person that placed the cache there in the first place did not acquire proper landowner permission to do so. Thank you.

[+dbrierley]

The cache in question (GC1N3T7) is in Gillespie County, Texas. The Gillespie Central Appraisal District offers property maps online. The cache seems to be on parcel 10395. Click on "property search" then seach by "Account Number" and enter the Property ID: 10395.

 

The land on both sides of River Road appear to be part of the same parcel of private property. The north-south property lines cross the road, indicating that the land under the road is privately owned; as mentioned earlier the easement seems to cover the road itself and nothing else.

[MisterEFQ]

Looks like she has made her decision:

 

As the landowner where this cache is located, and after much prayer and discussion I have collected this cache and am requesting it be archived as the person that placed the cache there in the first place did not acquire proper landowner permission to do so. Thank you.

 

edit: I didnt see the posts above, my bad.

Edited August 18, 2010 by EhFhQ

[+Prime Suspect]

how many of you have ever checked a tax record ever?

 

I have used property/plat maps, but some reviewers might not consider them.

See Post #16 4439063[/snapback]

Edited August 18, 2010 by Prime Suspect

[+dbrierley]

Susie:

 

If you're reading this thread, I think you handled this well! It's sad that some landowners find out about Geocaching the hard way and have to fend for themselves.

[+dbrierley]

See Post #16

 

Yup, the landowner often ends up having to fix the problem on his/her own.

[+Team Cotati]

how many of you have ever checked a tax record ever?

 

Taking a little risk here. I have read post #16.

 

I have also checked the local and county tax and deed registrars records....more than once.

In different parts of the country even.

 

I guess that that makes me kinda special.

[+Team Cotati]

Susie:

 

If you're reading this thread, I think you handled this well! It's sad that some landowners find out about Geocaching the hard way and have to fend for themselves.

 

Ya, I really do hope that she didn't break a finger nail or anything.

 

It did seem to be an especially spiritual event though. I guess that that makes up for a few of life's slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, eh?

 

Brought the whole clan together for an important bonding experience.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Team Cotati

[+Relheok]

Thank you for leaving the Cache. Perhaps creating another Cache, with a Trash Out theme would be good!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

If the cacher knew it was private property,

If the no trespassing signs were down at the time of hiding, the hider could have assumed it was public property.

how far in on the property was it?

nobody wants to be arrested for trespassing.

 

Why assume it is public property? I always assume it is private until I check it out. Just because there are no "Keep Out" signs does not mean it is public!

 

Hiders need to use some common sense!

Well in this case most would assume it is public property considering it is a small area of land between the road and river that allows for stream access. No houses on that side. The majority of river banks such as this are public for this reason.

 

Do you have any evidence other than hearsay to support that claim? I've participated in a couple of other online forum where stream access was a hotly debated topic. In one particular case, there was a pretty irate land owner that was spending a significant amount of effort trying to prevent fisherman from fishing the a section of stream that went through his property (he owned the property on both banks of the stream). As it turned out, the problem wasn't so much the flyfishers that wanted to wade the stream, but that it was also frequently used by a bunch of yahoos floating down the river in inner tubes (with one tube for a keg of beer). He got tired of them getting out to take a leak (he had cleared a nice spot on the shore to go down and enjoy the occasional serenity of the stream), toss the beer cans, etc. so he tried to keep everyone off the stream as it went through his property. There were a few of us in the forum that sympathized with the land owner (even though he was pretty obnoxious) and it wasn't a popular stance. As it turned out, the land owner had a bigger fight, because there were specific state laws (as is the case in most U.S. states). In that land owners state, there is a standard easement when a stream goes through someones property up to the high water line *if* the waterway is deemed navigable (it was).

 

In my state, there are lots of streams with property owned by the state as public fishing access points. Those spots are clearly marked and almost all other access to the high water line of a waterway is through private property. The stream bed itself may have public access but there are no easement rights through private property to the banks of stream (though there is an exception when a portage around an obstacle which prevent navigation). The laws pertaining to trespass are pretty specific, and every state in the U.S. has one.

 

I, and it seems that most others responding in the thread sympathize with the land owner. Frankly, I don't see any benefits whatsoever challenging land owners for access to their property for the purposes of placing of finding a geocache. The outcome is almost always going to be some level of bad.

[+Druce_n_Eulla]

If the cacher knew it was private property,

If the no trespassing signs were down at the time of hiding, the hider could have assumed it was public property.

how far in on the property was it?

nobody wants to be arrested for trespassing.

 

Why assume it is public property? I always assume it is private until I check it out. Just because there are no "Keep Out" signs does not mean it is public!

 

Hiders need to use some common sense!

Well in this case most would assume it is public property considering it is a small area of land between the road and river that allows for stream access. No houses on that side. The majority of river banks such as this are public for this reason.

 

Do you have any evidence other than hearsay to support that claim? I've participated in a couple of other online forum where stream access was a hotly debated topic. In one particular case, there was a pretty irate land owner that was spending a significant amount of effort trying to prevent fisherman from fishing the a section of stream that went through his property (he owned the property on both banks of the stream). As it turned out, the problem wasn't so much the flyfishers that wanted to wade the stream, but that it was also frequently used by a bunch of yahoos floating down the river in inner tubes (with one tube for a keg of beer). He got tired of them getting out to take a leak (he had cleared a nice spot on the shore to go down and enjoy the occasional serenity of the stream), toss the beer cans, etc. so he tried to keep everyone off the stream as it went through his property. There were a few of us in the forum that sympathized with the land owner (even though he was pretty obnoxious) and it wasn't a popular stance. As it turned out, the land owner had a bigger fight, because there were specific state laws (as is the case in most U.S. states). In that land owners state, there is a standard easement when a stream goes through someones property up to the high water line *if* the waterway is deemed navigable (it was).

 

In my state, there are lots of streams with property owned by the state as public fishing access points. Those spots are clearly marked and almost all other access to the high water line of a waterway is through private property. The stream bed itself may have public access but there are no easement rights through private property to the banks of stream (though there is an exception when a portage around an obstacle which prevent navigation). The laws pertaining to trespass are pretty specific, and every state in the U.S. has one.

 

I, and it seems that most others responding in the thread sympathize with the land owner. Frankly, I don't see any benefits whatsoever challenging land owners for access to their property for the purposes of placing of finding a geocache. The outcome is almost always going to be some level of bad.

I am willing to bet none of these areas you speak of have a road running right along the river. I understand when it requires a decent walk to get to the river bank from a road.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Druce_n_Eulla

[+Too Tall John]

150 'groups? What is that? What GC# is this all about?

 

Sumpin fishy in Denmark.

My guess is simply that the OP may not be well-versed in the language of geocaching.

 

My next guess is that this refers to GC1N3T7.

My guess is that we shall see in a couple of weeks.

 

Let's just say that for now, I remain a skeptic.

Didn't anyone learn the lesson about keeping your doubts to yourself in a recent thread that involved a landowner (or garden owner) who came into the forums for help? Seems it resulted in a good cacher archiving all their caches and seemingly quitting the game. C'mon now. . .

[+JL_HSTRE]

I also want to thank the original poster for their calm response to this situation. Hopefully it was all just a misunderstanding by the person who placed the cache not realizing it was private property.

[JohnX]

I congratulate the Original Poster on keeping things calm.

 

I own some relatively unused property somewhere which is essentially closed to access due to problem hunters. I don't begrudge access to trusted individuals or to the cross country skiers. I want to place a cache there but I won't because I have found some (small few) cachers don't read the cache page even if it contains specific directions on where to park and where not to go.

[+Nilbog_Aus]

I (Mrs Nilbog) am both a geocacher and a landowner...who identified a cache on their property - with no contact or permission from me. I live in Australia, but have landholdings in New Zealand and noticed that a cache was placed on a walkway across our property. What people don't know is that the only reason that the walkway was there - we as landowners had actually granted the local council specific permission to use a section of our land to create the walkway. So although it was public access, it came with specific conditions.

 

My biggest issue with it, was that although I had no issue with someone placing a cache, fossicking around or near the walkways, enjoying our property and did not want to prevent anyone from walkiing around this remarkable island - the real reason for placing this cache for the cache owner is the awesome view from the headland of this island and the only way to access that was to leave the pathway (which wanders around the sea level) and head straight up private property to the top!! Note - my property is 10 hectares of land.

 

We contacted the cache owner and after some issues with getting in contact with them, we contacted a local reviewer in NZ, explained that we owned the property and advised them of what our conditions for continued placement was... the reviewer was awesome, he/she apologised for the placement of the cache and archived it until such time as the cache owner complied with our request.

 

Our request was pretty simple...we asked the cache owner to clearly state in their description of the cache, that the headland was private property and that cachers must stick on or near to the walkways around the property...while this may not have prevented all cachers (yes some of us ignore the description!!!) from going up the hill, we wanted to not refuse access to this great sport...but get some kind of balance.

 

In our view, we always think that if you apply common sense and the cache owner gives you instructions like "Don't deviate from the path" or "Enter via gate B" or whatever, that you are being a little bit disrespectful to the cache owner, if you try the quicker or easier route!! Let's face it - you never know why the cache owner is giving the instructions they are...it could be because a landowner like us has decided to allow a cache on their private property on the basis that they hope that cachers will respect the property and stick to those areas, which do not disrupt the privacy of the landowner.

 

Despite our position - which we think was pretty reasonable - the cache owner didn't want to put that comment in their description...oh well.....maybe our request was not reasonable??? Who knows?