underground caches?

[dwlover]

i logged my second dnf today. i was looking for what was supposed to be an easy cache. the only thing i found close to the gps point was what looked like an old well. i read in another thread that and also found in the guidelines that we are not supposed to bury caches but is it acceptable to put caches in wells? i didnt see anything but i wasnt going to mess around with it either.

 

the cache is gcqhx7

[+niraD]

Caches are not allowed to be buried, which is defined in the guidelines as using "a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object [...] to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache". However, caches can be covered with leaves, loose dirt, gravel, or other natural camouflage, and this is not considered being buried. And I have found a number of caches hidden "below grade" in various ways, using existing holes, hollow trees, structures, and other terrain features.

 

I can't say whether hiding a cache in an old well would be appropriate, or if permission would be granted for such a hide, but it does seem a bit much for a cache that's listed as 1.5 stars in difficulty.

[jholly]

Well if the well is pre-existing and there is a way to rig up a line to lower and raise the cache I see nothing wrong with that. It is not buried, just out of sight.

 

But in the logs is a picture of the cache, an ammo box, taken in the winter and there is snow stuck to the side of the box. Not likely it was down a well, most likely laying on the ground somewhere. The hint gives a very obvious place to look, at least in the NW it would be very obvious, not sure about your area.

Edited August 17, 2010 by jholly

[+Team Cotati]

Caches are not allowed to be buried, which is defined in the guidelines as using "a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object [...] to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache". However, caches can be covered with leaves, loose dirt, gravel, or other natural camouflage, and this is not considered being buried. And I have found a number of caches hidden "below grade" in various ways, using existing holes, hollow trees, structures, and other terrain features.

 

I can't say whether hiding a cache in an old well would be appropriate, or if permission would be granted for such a hide, but it does seem a bit much for a cache that's listed as 1.5 stars in difficulty.

 

I'm stuck trying to understand what burring something has to do with a geocache that may or may not be located in a well.

[+niraD]

I'm stuck trying to understand what burring something has to do with a geocache that may or may not be located in a well.

Well, a lot depend on how you define burying. Some might consider any cache below grade to be buried. Others might consider caches covered with leaves, loose dirt, gravel, etc. to be buried. I don't think the OP's concerns were unreasonable.

[+buttaskotch]

Well, reading the HINT it doesn't seem to be in the well. In fact, if ya think about what it means and where you were, you may understand what is meant.

Classic newbie mistake

[+Prescott Patrol]

Burying is the removal of dirt, placing item in hole where dirt was and then placing said dirt on top of item.

 

Putting into a well is not burying

[+the family bu]

on the subject of burying - should a cache that is found to be buried be reported?

[+Castle Mischief]

on the subject of burying - should a cache that is found to be buried be reported?

 

Yes. My advice- do it quietly by sending a message to the reviewer and save yourself the drama.

[+Walts Hunting]

Well, a lot depend on how you define burying

 

It doesn't matter how you define burying. The froggy's guidelines define it and that is what we go by. Brings back the old question "It depends on what the definition of is is."

 

As to reporting it that is a personal decision. Some will argue that if people are finding it w/o complaining in their logs about it to leave it be. Others will say that it should be reported so as not to confuse cachers about locating it and what is permissible.

 

I have found many caches that violate guidelines in some way or another but unless the violation is significant (one recently that I did report had in the description to disregard the No Trespassing signs) I don't worry about it.

 

Lastly I am guessing he didn't have the hint at the site because it definitely rules out the well.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Walts Hunting

[+the family bu]

[quote

As to reporting it that is a personal decision. Some will argue that if people are finding it w/o complaining in their logs about it to leave it be. Others will say that it should be reported so as not to confuse cachers about locating it and what is permissible.

 

 

I'm glad u said that - I actually really enjoyed the cache (it was very good).

[+t4e]

I'm stuck trying to understand what burring something has to do with a geocache that may or may not be located in a well.

Well, a lot depend on how you define burying. Some might consider any cache below grade to be buried. Others might consider caches covered with leaves, loose dirt, gravel, etc. to be buried. I don't think the OP's concerns were unreasonable.

 

guidelines are well defined, as long as you don't make the hole yourself is fine

 

an abandoned well will be acceptable the same as a cave would be

[dwlover]

thanks for the info. i did notice my pone was spinning more than usual. i reset it last night and tried again during lunch and found it easy. but next time i will know i can look in existing holes. that is good to know.

[+roziecakes]

Glad you were able to find it!

[+bflentje]

on the subject of burying - should a cache that is found to be buried be reported?

 

I agree caches shouldn't be buried but I also believe in minding one's business unless life, limb, or significant property damage is involved.

[+Team Cotati]

on the subject of burying - should a cache that is found to be buried be reported?

 

Absolutely.

[+Team Cotati]

Burying is the removal of dirt, placing item in hole where dirt was and then placing said dirt on top of item.

 

Putting into a well is not burying

 

Tell me about it.

[+Ecylram]

Caches are not allowed to be buried, which is defined in the guidelines as using "a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object [...] to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache". However, caches can be covered with leaves, loose dirt, gravel, or other natural camouflage, and this is not considered being buried. And I have found a number of caches hidden "below grade" in various ways, using existing holes, hollow trees, structures, and other terrain features.

 

I can't say whether hiding a cache in an old well would be appropriate, or if permission would be granted for such a hide, but it does seem a bit much for a cache that's listed as 1.5 stars in difficulty.

I'd be hard pressed to believe a 1.5 difficulty would be down a well. I'm guessing it's something else close. For example, I recall seeing a reference to cache where the hide was above a wishing well.

[+sbell111]

Caches are not allowed to be buried, which is defined in the guidelines as using "a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object [...] to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache". However, caches can be covered with leaves, loose dirt, gravel, or other natural camouflage, and this is not considered being buried. And I have found a number of caches hidden "below grade" in various ways, using existing holes, hollow trees, structures, and other terrain features.

 

I can't say whether hiding a cache in an old well would be appropriate, or if permission would be granted for such a hide, but it does seem a bit much for a cache that's listed as 1.5 stars in difficulty.

I'd be hard pressed to believe a 1.5 difficulty would be down a well. I'm guessing it's something else close. For example, I recall seeing a reference to cache where the hide was above a wishing well.

That largely depends on how obvious the cache hide is once you arrive on site. Certainly, a cache in a well could have a difficulty of one or five.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I've found a few caches in four foot deep wells. They can be fun. Think the terrain was a 2. I've also crawled into talus rock caves (think bear dens). Just because it's under ground level doesn't mean it's buried.

[+Darren V]

To hide a cache I once removed a large rock from the ground thus creating a hole. Then out the cache in the hole then place a board on top (which pictured the geocache logo) and covered the board with moss and placed a little "X" on the top. And it wasn't against guidelines.... I made sure of it!

[+mtn-man]

To hide a cache I once removed a large rock from the ground thus creating a hole. Then out the cache in the hole then place a board on top (which pictured the geocache logo) and covered the board with moss and placed a little "X" on the top. And it wasn't against guidelines.... I made sure of it!

This needs clarification. You got land owner permission according to the reviewer notes on the cache. The reviewer was not told how the hide was done, just that you had permission. The reviewer cannot make that decision with regard to permission. Only the land owner/manager can.

[+Darren V]

To hide a cache I once removed a large rock from the ground thus creating a hole. Then out the cache in the hole then place a board on top (which pictured the geocache logo) and covered the board with moss and placed a little "X" on the top. And it wasn't against guidelines.... I made sure of it!

This needs clarification. You got land owner permission according to the reviewer notes on the cache. The reviewer was not told how the hide was done, just that you had permission. The reviewer cannot make that decision with regard to permission. Only the land owner/manager can.

I hid this with someone else. So its not listed under my hides... it's listed under the person I hid it with's hides. So I don't know how you got that information (or if its even correct). With all due respect I read over the guidelines carefully and this cache did not violate any.

[+Darren V]

double post : sorry

Edited August 20, 2010 by Mountain Monster

[+briansnat]

on the subject of burying - should a cache that is found to be buried be reported?

 

I agree caches shouldn't be buried but I also believe in minding one's business unless life, limb, or significant property damage is involved.

 

I agree caches shouldn't be buried but I also believe in minding one's business unless life, limb, significant property damage or the future of the sport of geocaching is involved.

[+briansnat]

To hide a cache I once removed a large rock from the ground thus creating a hole. Then out the cache in the hole then place a board on top (which pictured the geocache logo) and covered the board with moss and placed a little "X" on the top. And it wasn't against guidelines.... I made sure of it!

This needs clarification. You got land owner permission according to the reviewer notes on the cache. The reviewer was not told how the hide was done, just that you had permission. The reviewer cannot make that decision with regard to permission. Only the land owner/manager can.

I hid this with someone else. So its not listed under my hides... it's listed under the person I hid it with's hides. So I don't know how you got that information (or if its even correct). With all due respect I read over the guidelines carefully and this cache did not violate any.

 

It certainly violates the spirit of the guideline, which is geocachers shouldn't be creating holes. If I were the reviewer and you told me you did that your cache would not be published.

 

Picking apart a guideline word by word to find a way around it is not a good practice. If you used a power washer to excavate a hole it would not technically violate the guideline because you didn't use a pointy object. But you are still creating a hole, which is the point of the guideline.

[+mtn-man]

To hide a cache I once removed a large rock from the ground thus creating a hole. Then out the cache in the hole then place a board on top (which pictured the geocache logo) and covered the board with moss and placed a little "X" on the top. And it wasn't against guidelines.... I made sure of it!

This needs clarification. You got land owner permission according to the reviewer notes on the cache. The reviewer was not told how the hide was done, just that you had permission. The reviewer cannot make that decision with regard to permission. Only the land owner/manager can.

I hid this with someone else. So its not listed under my hides... it's listed under the person I hid it with's hides. So I don't know how you got that information (or if its even correct). With all due respect I read over the guidelines carefully and this cache did not violate any.

 

It certainly violates the spirit of the guideline, which is geocachers shouldn't be creating holes. If I were the reviewer and you told me you did that your cache would not be published.

Picking apart a guideline word by word to find a way around it is not a good practice. If you used a power washer to excavate a hole it would not technically violate the guideline because you didn't use a pointy object. But you are still creating a hole, which is the point of the guideline.

I agree, and since I am your reviewer I wanted to clarify. I do not recall being told about a cache being hidden like this at all. Without landowner permission I would not publish a cache hidden like that. The hole was not there until you created it.

 

(Stupid fingers on the tiny phone keyboard.)

Edited August 21, 2010 by mtn-man

[+eagsc7]

... in the Spirit of caching...

 

just don't put DIRT back on top of it!

 

The Steaks

[+Darren V]

To hide a cache I once removed a large rock from the ground thus creating a hole. Then out the cache in the hole then place a board on top (which pictured the geocache logo) and covered the board with moss and placed a little "X" on the top. And it wasn't against guidelines.... I made sure of it!

This needs clarification. You got land owner permission according to the reviewer notes on the cache. The reviewer was not told how the hide was done, just that you had permission. The reviewer cannot make that decision with regard to permission. Only the land owner/manager can.

I hid this with someone else. So its not listed under my hides... it's listed under the person I hid it with's hides. So I don't know how you got that information (or if its even correct). With all due respect I read over the guidelines carefully and this cache did not violate any.

 

It certainly violates the spirit of the guideline, which is geocachers shouldn't be creating holes. If I were the reviewer and you told me you did that your cache would not be published.

Picking apart a guideline word by word to find a way around it is not a good practice. If you used a power washer to excavate a hole it would not technically violate the guideline because you didn't use a pointy object. But you are still creating a hole, which is the point of the guideline.

I agree, and since I am your reviewer I wanted to clarify. I do not recall being told about a cache being hidden like this at all. Without landowner permission I would not publish a cache hidden like that. The hole was not there until you created it.

 

(Stupid fingers on the tiny phone keyboard.)

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be a "bad cacher". But shouldn't the guidelines then say just "no holes" or "no holes created by you" instead of "no pointy objects". Land owner permission was given. People have been finding this cache and having fun with it. No one has yet questioned it... until now With all respect (because your ARE a volunteer) I have found a lot worse caches that actually go against the written guidelines. This cache is DEFINITELY not the most questionable cache in my area. Hopefully that clears things up.