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Frustration


TerraViators

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Forgive me if the subject is old and tired, but my frustration is growing. I'll preface my statements with a disclaimer that they are only my opinion and not a personal attack on any individual or group.

 

At one point, I enjoyed writing an earthcache. But now it seems like it's harder to create a legitimate experience for non-scientific cachers than it is to recreate the Giza pyramids. I believe it has become a toy for the elite and that people with limited earth science experience are a mere nuisance to the "real" scientists. Isn't the point to expose people to the wonders of the planet who might otherwise never give a darn? Why does it have to be so rigid? I feel like we are denying a cacher an opportunity to experience earth science because we are too hung up on these brittle harsh guidelines.

 

I think I'm out on EC's as much as I enjoy them. A film canister under a lamp post skirt, or a hide-a-key on a guardrail are a dime a dozen. You spend time creating a nice page with proper research and credits to allow folks a small window into the planet and it becomes a waste of time.

 

Again, this is just my opinion and nothing more. Thanks for reading.

Edited by TerraViators
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But now it seems like it's harder to create a legitimate experience for non-scientific cachers than it is to recreate the Giza pyramids. I believe it has become a toy for the elite and that people with limited earth science experience are a mere nuisance to the "real" scientists.

 

In what way? It's been over a year since I published my last Earthcache. Never had any problems before. How have things changed?

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But now it seems like it's harder to create a legitimate experience for non-scientific cachers than it is to recreate the Giza pyramids. I believe it has become a toy for the elite and that people with limited earth science experience are a mere nuisance to the "real" scientists.

 

In what way? It's been over a year since I published my last Earthcache. Never had any problems before. How have things changed?

It seems that the guidelines create more of a restrictive environment than a positive framework. I believe the subject matter and lesson requirements are too ridgid. IMO, if we can get a cacher to a location to observe earth science, is the lesson that important? Isn't the exposure and learning experience enough?

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It seems that the guidelines create more of a restrictive environment than a positive framework. I believe the subject matter and lesson requirements are too ridgid. IMO, if we can get a cacher to a location to observe earth science, is the lesson that important? Isn't the exposure and learning experience enough?

 

Can you provide some examples? I understand the need to rant, but specific details are more conducive to discussion.

 

If you just want to bring people to interesting locations without the guidelines, hey, that's cool. I've even heard rumours that Groundspeak has another website devoted to that. But Earthcaches are about Earth Science. Simple observation without inquiry isn't science, and it doesn't necessarily lead to real learning.

 

Please refer to this excerpt from Earthcache.org:

An EarthCache site is a special place that people can visit to learn about a unique geoscience feature or aspect of our Earth. Visitors to EarthCache sites can see how our planet has been shaped by geological processes, how we manage the resources and how scientists gather evidence to learn about the Earth.

 

If you're having trouble getting your Earthcaches up to standard, there are plenty of people in this forum who are full of good ideas.

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Maybe you sholud try Waymarking. You are right about the EarthCache guidelines being rigid, but EarthCaches are intended to be educational. I can Waymark most EarthCaches and you get the same information that the ECO calls answers, except I don't have to ask GSA for permission. <_<

Edited by Manville Possum Hunters
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It seems that the guidelines create more of a restrictive environment than a positive framework. I believe the subject matter and lesson requirements are too ridgid. IMO, if we can get a cacher to a location to observe earth science, is the lesson that important? Isn't the exposure and learning experience enough?

 

Can you provide some examples? I understand the need to rant, but specific details are more conducive to discussion.

 

If you just want to bring people to interesting locations without the guidelines, hey, that's cool. I've even heard rumours that Groundspeak has another website devoted to that. But Earthcaches are about Earth Science. Simple observation without inquiry isn't science, and it doesn't necessarily lead to real learning.

 

Please refer to this excerpt from Earthcache.org:

An EarthCache site is a special place that people can visit to learn about a unique geoscience feature or aspect of our Earth. Visitors to EarthCache sites can see how our planet has been shaped by geological processes, how we manage the resources and how scientists gather evidence to learn about the Earth.

 

If you're having trouble getting your Earthcaches up to standard, there are plenty of people in this forum who are full of good ideas.

I appreciate the science aspect of EC's and, to be fair, I've only had a handful returned to me for tweaking. I recently submitted an earthcache relating to glacial erratic boulders. It was returned to me with a note that erratic boulder EC's are no longer accepted without an "excellent Earth science lesson and related logging tasks." I have a Journalism degree. By no means am I an earth scientist. I'm disadvantaged at creating EC's with "excellent" Earth science lesson. I spent several hours on the research, creating the HTML page, etc. I'm probably more frustrated that the return was reactive rather than proactive. I wasted alot of time that I could have saved if this guidline was stated beforehand.

 

The note states I "need to work a lesson around the specific site that relates the geology of the blocks to the surrounding geology and some task that links those blocks to the action of the glaciers that brought them here." Any help is appreciated.

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I suspect the reason for the rejection is somewhere between..

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

 

And...

 

At times a cache may meet the listing requirements for the site but the reviewers, as experienced cachers, may see additional concerns that you as a cache placer may not have noticed.

 

However it appears that your proposed solution (e.g. bringing it to the Forums) skipped a couple of steps in the process:

 

If your cache has been archived and you wish to appeal the decision, first contact the reviewer and explain why you feel your cache meets the guidelines. Exceptions may sometimes be made, depending on the nature of a cache. If you have a novel type of cache that "pushes the envelope" to some degree, then it is best to contact your local reviewer and/or Groundspeak before placing and reporting it on the Geocaching.com web site. The guidelines should address most situations, but Groundspeak administrators and reviewers are always interested in new ideas. If, after exchanging email with the reviewer, you still feel your cache has been misjudged, your next option is to ask the volunteer to post the cache for all of the reviewers to see in their private discussion forum. Sometimes a second opinion from someone else who has seen a similar situation can help in suggesting a way for the cache to be published.

 

Given that the submission was rejected out of hand, makes me believe that this is some policy decision, and given that there must be trillions of glacial erratics out there, I can certainly understand limiting their numbers so they don't become the LPC's of Earthcaches.

 

My suggestion would be to remove all aspects concerning the movement of the boulders and dwell more on other geologic processes going on.

 

Sorry to hear it didn't work out. Best of luck.

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Sad to hear your experiences. I must say that my EC's experiences have been favourable to date.

 

Perhaps it is to do with glacial erratics are just very common in the US? Perhaps chat to the reviewer and ask how he would be more satisfied with the EC going through. Perthaps it is a small issue that can be resolved without being a qualified earth scientist. It is wonderful that you put effort into creating HTML pages athat are obviously well written (being a journo). I encourage you to perservere, and I hope that I get the opportunttiy to do your cache/s one day.

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Sad to hear your experiences. I must say that my EC's experiences have been favourable to date.

 

Perhaps it is to do with glacial erratics are just very common in the US? Perhaps chat to the reviewer and ask how he would be more satisfied with the EC going through. Perthaps it is a small issue that can be resolved without being a qualified earth scientist. It is wonderful that you put effort into creating HTML pages athat are obviously well written (being a journo). I encourage you to perservere, and I hope that I get the opportunttiy to do your cache/s one day.

I appreciate the feedback and will try harder.

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Sad to hear your experiences. I must say that my EC's experiences have been favourable to date.

 

Perhaps it is to do with glacial erratics are just very common in the US? Perhaps chat to the reviewer and ask how he would be more satisfied with the EC going through. Perthaps it is a small issue that can be resolved without being a qualified earth scientist. It is wonderful that you put effort into creating HTML pages athat are obviously well written (being a journo). I encourage you to perservere, and I hope that I get the opportunttiy to do your cache/s one day.

I appreciate the feedback and will try harder.

 

I share your frustrations, and understand them well! Instead of hijacking your thread I'll start my own.

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The note states I "need to work a lesson around the specific site that relates the geology of the blocks to the surrounding geology and some task that links those blocks to the action of the glaciers that brought them here." Any help is appreciated.

 

Hey TerraViators - Here's just an idea, as your request for help. Perhaps discuss an "outwash plain" or "ground moraine" (or whatever appropriate) that the glacial feature is set in. (Don't know? Maybe your state geological survey has a guide?). Then in your lesson you could include, as part, your already-created discussion on glacial erratics. Good luck!

 

I'm willing to help so if you have more questions, feel free to PM me. I haven't developed too many ECs (so not well versed on what's accepted and what's not), but I have a strong interest and some background in earth science. :laughing:

Edited by honeybee77
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I know you can not make it a requirement for cachers to go online to research answers to your questions. What I did not know is that if they can go on line and somehow find the info you are asking for you can not use that question. If they can use Google earth to figure out an answer you can not use that question. If the reviewer does not know if the answer you give is right or not you can not use that question.

I give up! Just archived my EarthCaches.

 

Think I will go put out some skirt lifters. You can put out as many as you want, no questions asked.

 

"Currently your logging tasks are:

1) Would you say the valley is U or V shaped?

2) Valleys are low spots between mountains or hills. How high above the river is this location?

3) Is this a broad or narrow valley?

 

Again for number 1, I'm not sure your answer is correct. The answer to question 2 can be found by looking at images posted on Google Street Maps. There is a photo there that clearly shows the Deadman's Hill sign with the info needed to log this cache. Question 3 could be answered by viewing a topo map and would not require a site visit.

 

A good logging task involves the visitor gathering data and then using this data to reach a conclusion related to the ‘theme’ or ‘lesson’ of the EarthCache. You would need to include a logging question which refers directly to the geology you have discussed. This question should connect what the cachers read with what they see at the site and should not be answerable from online sources. "

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Nobody said it was easy. Believe me, I have a couple EC's that were rejected and once I had the discussion with the reviewer it was clear that they would not work. Hours and Hours of time spent, but not wasted. Part of the process is to educate yourself first. I have another 2 in work right now that I think will eventually get published, and one in review that I hope to goodness will pass muster, but if not, onward and upward. I've poured hours into research, but hey, they are subject to review and I know that going in. Compared to some published ones the standard has definitely been raised, that's life!

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Compared to some published ones the standard has definitely been raised, that's life
Is there some overriding policy consideration that drives this ? Or is it just more bureaucratic folderol that we have come to expect as part of "life".

They decided to more rigidly adhere to their standards I assume. I have no basis in fact except to compare my recent review experiences to some published ECs of similar phenomena. Sure, it makes it harder to reach the bar, but everyone benefits, particularly the finder.

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Any news on the resubmission ?How did it go?

Yes, I tweaked the listing, removing the mention of erratic boulders and it was quickly approved. I even had bit of fun changing it from 'erratic boulder' to 'a radical boulder.'

 

Well done - glad that you got it approved - and I trust that you will now research and place a few more.

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Hello,

I try to publish my first earth caches in Crete. I have no geo education from school, so it is a hard work. But I like very much rock, caves, and folds. I had done some earth cache in England and I like them. So bought some book and start to read about geology of Crete. And I become much exited, because here have a lot of interesting place for geology. Even have a Geopark. Unfortunately is not well developing specially on the field.

So I try to make one of the most beautiful and visit able cave an earth cache. You can ask why I don’t put a traditional. I believe the cachers who come to visit Crete they don’t know about the how special is the geology here.

The cache is a cave name SFENTONI. http://www.zoniana.gr/sfentoni_en.htm

Anybody can help, what can I writhe special information from just a beautiful solution cave?

Crete has 5200 caves, but only a few is accessible for the public.

If anybody is interested i can send my description, what the EarthCache Reviewer disable.

/Sorry for my poor English, but my husband, who is my secretary is busy in the moment./

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Hello,

I try to publish my first earth caches in Crete. I have no geo education from school, so it is a hard work. But I like very much rock, caves, and folds. I had done some earth cache in England and I like them. So bought some book and start to read about geology of Crete. And I become much exited, because here have a lot of interesting place for geology. Even have a Geopark. Unfortunately is not well developing specially on the field.

So I try to make one of the most beautiful and visit able cave an earth cache. You can ask why I don’t put a traditional. I believe the cachers who come to visit Crete they don’t know about the how special is the geology here.

The cache is a cave name SFENTONI. http://www.zoniana.gr/sfentoni_en.htm

Anybody can help, what can I writhe special information from just a beautiful solution cave?

Crete has 5200 caves, but only a few is accessible for the public.

If anybody is interested i can send my description, what the EarthCache Reviewer disable.

/Sorry for my poor English, but my husband, who is my secretary is busy in the moment./

 

I don't know the specifics, but it's my understanding that Earthcaches placed in caves need to be approved by the land manager AND some sort of spelunking (cave exploring) association.

 

Do you have correspondence explaining why your Earthcache was rejected?

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