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jwest420
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I am brand new to this game and I'm not sure what is considered taboo. I have a travel bug that I would like to visit Africa, would it be cheating if I mailed the travel bug to a cacher there and let them place it? I have done some research and it seems the majority feel travel bugs should travel the traditional way from cache to cache then maybe picked up by someone traveling there. I myself think it should travel the normal way but was curious what the rules were? icon_confused.gif

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I think it depends on a given situation. Our travel bug, Charlotte the CACHE Bear , was mailed to us from Australia to start her journey. Charlotte is currently stranded in a cache due to a National Forest closure. Since Bec has cancer...should it ever become necessary...I'm going to ENCOURAGE MAILING her in order to assist Charlotte in completing her journey.

 

In the end...it's your bug! You as the OWNER have the right to decide...You get to make the rules for your bug! icon_biggrin.gif

 

sun_smiley.gif

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Why are you even concerned with how the *majority* of the cachers feel about you mailing YOUR bug?

If your main goal is to have it travel around Africa then put it in the mail and SEND IT TO AFRICA!!

That’s exactly what I did with one of mine that I want to travel around Australia. I am sending it to a cacher in N.S.W. Australia to start its journey, it won’t be logging miles until it starts moving around in that country.

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Scout65 why are you so defensive, this was my first post and I'm new to this game. Scout65 why are YOU so concerned that I'm asking for opinions? I have been caching with a friend of mine because I don't even own a gps yet, he has been kind enough to let me go with him when he caches, and he gave me my first travel bug to peak my interest. I thought it was an interesting concept but wasn't sure how to go about getting it to Africa. I thought the cache to cache thing would take a long time but it seems that is the way to go. I don't see the fun in just mailing it there because that defeats the purpose of completing it's goal to get to Africa and traveling around there, just seems like a big short cut. But for you to get so defensive and not just give your opinion you must feel like you cheated in some way. You mention miles traveled, I am not concered with the miles my bug travels just were he goes and how he gets there, I mean really anyone can mail a bug whats the accomplishment in that. This is just a game , you act like it's a compitition with the mile thing. I would suggest you get over that because your way behind. If mailing your bug to Australia makes you feel good and like you did something then so be it, it's your bug. But as for me I will let my bug get there the traditional way because the satisfaction will be much greater than having the post man deliver it. Where's the fun in that! You can tell all your cache buddies that you have a travel bug in Australia and they can ask you how long it took to get it there and you can say a couple of days I mailed it!

 

[This message was edited by jwest420 on June 15, 2002 at 12:30 AM.]

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Jwest420 I have two travel bugs and one cache so far, I am not really interested in the miles they log. I am more interested in seeing what cache they are in, but to some people the mileage thing is important. I have a travel bug called Chuck the Fire Truck, his goal is to see the Ground Zero. I guess I could mail him to New York to insure he completes his goal and to get him a little closer to Ground Zero, but I would lose out on all the fun he had getting there from cache to cache. I am getting ready to release a new travel bug that will be a figurine of Count Dracula and I saw there is a cache were his castle is, I thought it would be neat for him to take the tour of the castle and get some pictures. It would be easy for me to mail him there but I to think that takes away from the experience of watching the travels of the bug. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, it's their bug so to each his own. Check the link below.

 

mailing travel bugs

 

[This message was edited by mdmax371 on June 15, 2002 at 01:25 AM.]

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jwest420, I wasn’t being defensive because I felt that mailing the bug to a starting point is cheating.

What I am being defensive about is someone telling you or me that we don’t have a right to mail our bug.

My travel bugs goal is to Travel around Australia. If the goal was to just GET to Australia then yes, that to me would be cheating.

In your first post you said that you want your bug to visit Africa (which is a pretty cool idea). In your second post you said the goal was to get to Africa. If you want to include *getting there* as part of the adventure then yeah, the cache to cache route would be the way to go. But, if you are just interested in having it move around Africa and don’t really care how it gets there then I absolutely see no problem with mailing it to a starting point in Africa.

I only mentioned “miles traveled” because I do feel that it would be cheating to start the bug here and then mail it half way around the world to another cache just to rack up miles. I’m not concerned with how many miles my bug travels in Australia, I just want it to travel around in that country.

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Clatmandu, good idea. That’s what it’s all about, ideas and options.

Know the difference between a journey and a destination. Sometimes the destination is the journey.

For me I will get satisfaction knowing that something that I have a connection to is traveling around a place that I would like to visit.

I have another bug with the goal of riding to space in a Space Shuttle. I started Orbit The Astronaut on his journey the *traditional* way because part of his adventure is the journey to the destination.

Jwest420, whatever you decide to do with your bug I wish you good luck and I hope it accomplishes it’s goal.

As long as you’re not hurting anyone or breaking any rules I would be very careful limiting your ideas and options to what the *majority* deems appropriate. Also remember that the majority of responders do not always represent the majority as a whole.

Good luck

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I'm sorry Scout65 but in my opinion you were being rude with the way you replied to a newbie's question. I'm not sure were your getting that someone has told me or you that you don't have the right to mail a bug because all I've seen on here so far are the opinions people have given this forum. You want your bug to travel around Australia, to me part of the journey would be actually getting to Australia, it just seems to easy to mail it. I agree with mdmax371 in the fact that you lose out on the fun of seeing the travels of the bug. I'm not telling you or anyone else what to do with your bug nor has anyone here *as you say* told me how I had to use my bug, all I've read are opinions! I think that when travel bugs were made they were intended to use by traveling from cache to cache to track their progress, mailing them to me just takes away from the purpose of the bug and makes it to easy. I think by saying it's ok to mail it only opens the door for the people who are concered about the mileage thing to just pick up their bug and mail it to someone else far off to rack up the miles. You say this would be cheating, why is it cheating this is not a compitition just an individual game, you made the rules for your bug so why can't people make their own rules for their bug? Since you say it's up to each individual to do with their bug what ever they want who are you to say this would be wrong! There are really no clear cut rules if it's left up to the person to use the bug as they wish, so I would prefer to use my bug in the *traditional since* just seems like the right thing to do in my humble opinion. This was taken from the travel bug page that tells me how they were intended to use:

Q. What is a Travel Bug?

 

A. Simply put, a Travel Bug is a new form of hitchiker you can track on Geocaching.com. A hitchiker is basically an item that is carried from cache to cache (or person to person) and you can follow its progress online.

 

So that is were I'm getting how to play the game and not from someone telling me how to use it. It says the bugs are carried from cache to cache by one person dropping it off and then another person picking it up if this is how you did it then that would be fine. By the guidelines it seems you might have cheated but since you made your owns rules for you in your mind you didn't cheat. If you read the whole travel bug page you will see it also says that travel bugs are slow moving pony express. Scout65 if you could show me were it says that mailing the bugs are ok then that would be fine with me. You can make your own rules but I think I will follow the guidelines instead of taking the shortcuts, your way to me just seems like cheating since I have read the bug page. Mdmax371 has a bug and it's goal is to go to Ground Zero, it's goal isn't make it to New York so would it be ok if he mailed it to a person their to place it in a cache near Ground Zero. That just seems to easy, it's no different then you mailing your bug to Australia it's just to easy! Have fun, just doesn't seem right to me!!

 

[This message was edited by jwest420 on June 15, 2002 at 01:37 PM.]

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Where did I get the idea that someone said that we can’t mail the bugs? Skydiver, in the first reply to your post said “In a word, no”. He offered you no explanation, just no. He did however refer you to another thread that, the way I see it, contradicts his plain and simple “no”.

The last scenario in Markwell’s poll is “Other than an initial mailing to start a bug remotely, bugs should never be transferred person to person.”

The “Other than an initial mailing to start a bug remotely” part of the scenario seems to favor my position.

Actually, the sharpness of my reply was not aimed at you. I recognized the fact that you are a newbie and felt that Skydivers “in a word, no” reply was a little too *final* sounding. I just wanted you to know that there are other (at least one other) people out there who feel that mailing your bug to start it remotely is perfectly fine. I just chose to give you a little more than a “ in a word, yes” answer.

Mdmax371 said “I guess I could mail him to New York to insure he completes his goal and to get him a little closer to Ground Zero, but I would lose out on all the fun he had getting there from cache to cache.” That’s fine, it will be interesting to watch it move around, that’s what he wants to do.

I want to watch my bug travel around Australia, I already have one moving around in the US (although not very fast).

I’m not going to miss out on the fun of seeing the travels of my bug, it’s just that my bug won’t officially start to travel until it is placed in a cache in Australia.

I guess the point I was trying to make to you is that unless someone can show you a specific rule that prohibits an action then don’t let a “in a word, no” answer, from someone without authority, stop you from following through with an idea.

Respectfully, and with no offence intended, Scout65 a.k.a. Rick

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Scout65 I guess I'm just not getting through to you, in my first question I was asking for the opinions of the people in this forum not for a difinitive answer!!! What I got out of skydivers in a word *no* answer to me was his opinion. He didn't say that he was anyone in authority, he just gave his short opinion and thats all I ask for! He also supplied a link to a poll that was taken and the majority of the people chose the not by mail answer which does not favor in your way. I believe the sharpness of your reply for whatever reason was unjust because just like the statement you made to me in an earlier response *Why are you even concerned with how the *majority* of the cachers feel about you mailing YOUR bug?* Now I'll ask you, Why are you even concerned about the answers of any of the individuals here in this forum? No one here is stopping me from following through with an idea like you suggest. For the last time all I ask for are opinions, you seem to be the one telling me it's ok to mail bugs and not just giving me your opinion. So if you can tell me it's ok why can't someone else tell me it's not ok, from what I can tell your no one of authority either. I think there needs to be rules otherwise how do we know were the bounderies are to be set. I have ask you many questions and all you seem to do is answer the ones you can twist to fit your scenario. I showed you the specific rules for travel bugs on the travel bug page the first one being that bugs travel from cache to cache not mailed. The second one says it's up to the person on what goal it gets, it's not up to the person on how it travels! These are very clear but I'm sure since you make your own rules you will twist these also. Anyone can mail a bug to another country, I just don't see any accomplishment in that unless you just want to brag to your fellow cachers that you have a bug there. You have never been to Australia so I don't see how you can have much of a connection with it. You have another bug Orbit and you say part of his goal is the journey, why isn't part of the other bugs goal the journey? The only reason I can come up with is your one of those people who like to take the easy route, you just couldn't wait for it to get there so you mailed it I'm impressed that must have taken alot out of you! You probably thought it would never get there otherwise. I wouldn't brag to much to my cache friends because mailing it wasn't hard. I thank skydiver and mdmax371 for their comments and everyone else here who has given their opinion.

 

[This message was edited by jwest420 on June 16, 2002 at 06:42 PM.]

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Okay,,, First, when you posted your question the overall feeling that I got from you was that you weren’t really sure if it was acceptable to mail your bug to a remote starting point. You were looking for opinions, and I gave you mine. In your last post you said you weren’t looking for a definitive answer. If Skydivers “in a word, no” answer isn’t definitive then what is it?

If the beginning of the last scenario in Markwell’s poll starts off “Other than an initial mailing to start a bug remotely” doesn’t that exclude mailing to a starting point from his poll? It sure looks that way to me, and I don’t think I’m twisting things around to come to that conclusion.

Why am I concerned about the answers from the other cachers? I don’t feel that referring to them in an answer means that I’m concerned about them. If 10,000 cachers (unless one of them was Jeremy, the owner of this site) said that mailing to a remote starting point wasn’t acceptable and I wanted to start mine in Hong Kong, I can assure you that it would be dragging contrails across the Pacific sky within 24 hours. Is that taking a shortcut? Of coarse it is, how could anyone argue that it isn’t? Is it cheating? Not in my book. If you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want to see it travel around in Africa then I don’t see anything at all wrong with sending it to a fellow cacher in Africa to start it’s journey. If however you want to take a chance that it will never get there then stick it in a cache in Utah and watch it go. Maybe it will get there and maybe it won’t (I’m rooting for you that it makes it).

As for *bragging to my caching buddies*, I can assure you that what I do with the bugs is for my entertainment, not theirs. And I don’t think that having a conversation with my caching buddies about where our bugs are would be bragging.

I didn’t say that I have a connection with Australia. If you re-read my post you will see that I said “For me I will get satisfaction knowing that something that I have a connection to is traveling around a place that I would like to visit”.

You said that the rule on the Travel Bug page says “bugs travel from cache to cache not mailed.”

Did you add the * not mailed* portion of the rule? I thought so.

Lastly, the ONLY point that I was trying to make to you is that once you purchase a Travel Bug it becomes YOUR property. You can do anything at all with it that you want. You can set it on the railroad tracks to see how flat it gets (maybe I’ll try that), you can toss it into a river or anything else you want.

I may not be addressing some of your points but it’s Fathers Day and I’m going to spend time with my daughter now.

Actually this will probably be my last post to you on this subject, frankly it’s starting to bore me and we’re really not getting anywhere.

Happy Caching, and good luck with your bug

Rick

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I'm sorry but in your first response to me you were very defensive I believe because you MAILED your bug. I am new here and I'm not telling anyone what is right or wrong to do with their bug. If I ask for your opinion on whether you thought something was right or wrong and you said *NO* I would take that as your opinion and not what has to be done, can you understand that? In Markwells poll the scenerio you are referring to got five votes for mailing and seventeen for not mailing, I don't see how this is in your favor. I have also looked around and seen alot of other post with people saying not to mail, but as I know and you don't this is their opinion! You were the first one to ask why I was concered about the opinions of the other people all I did was ask you why you were concered and you were concerned becuase you have picked apart their post. On the travel bug page I wasn't intending to add *NOT MAILED* I gave you to much credit I guess. This is what is say's *Simply put, a Travel Bug is a new form of hitchiker you can track on Geocaching.com. A hitchiker is basically an item that is carried from cache to cache (or person to person) and you can follow its progress online.* I thought you could figure out what it was saying, it's mode of travel is cache to cache not mailman to plane then back to a mailman again then to another cacher you don't know then placed somewhere you know nothing about. The not mailed line was me explaing how they were intended to travel. They were intended to travel by one person carrying from one cache to another and not mailed from here to there. Now if the pilot was a cacher and went out and found your bug then went to Australia and did some caching and placed it there then to *ME* then that would be fine because it traveled cache to cache! Everything here is my opinion I'm just going by the original guidelines set on the travel bug page. Everything else about mailing amoung other things have been added by individuals trying to figure out what is exceptible.

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The poll mentioned was for a specific purpose. I had a bug that was not near a cacher that was travelling to Hawaii. I had another cacher that was willing to pick up the bug and mail it to the Hawaii bound cacher. My question was directed at: "Is that proper?" My gut reaction was no, but I wanted other cachers' opinions.

 

Their answer in responses and in votes was that, while it would be OK to mail a bug to a remote location to start it's journey, after that, it should pass either cacher to cacher or cacher to cache to cacher - not cacher to USPS to cacher.

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocachers

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Markwell, I couldn't agree with you more.

Alright, I said that my last post would probably be my last on the subject, well I’ll have to at least post one more.

I wanted to get an opinion on this subject from someone who IS an authority so I presented the Question to Jeremy. He makes the rules.

I will first share with you the question that I asked him, word for word, nothing left out, so that you don’t think I worded the question to get the answer I wanted. I will then share with you his response, again word for word so you don’t think I’m, as you say, twisting it to fit my scenario. Then if you still can’t get the point I was trying to make through your thick skull then I hold out no hope for you.

Okay, here was my question:

 

“Jeremy,

As the moderator of the discussion forums I would like to get a ruling from you on a matter.

I have a travel bug "Bouncing Around Australia" whose only goal is to travel around in Australia. I wasn't interested in seeing it move around here, in the US and possibly not even getting to Australia so I contacted a fellow cacher in Australia and they agreed to release it for me in that country.

My question to you is this: Is mailing a Travel Bug to a remote starting point acceptable or does this go against the rules or spirit of the Travel Bug concept?

Is it only acceptable for the owner of the bug to release it in a cache personally?

Thanks for your time,

Scout 65 a.k.a. Rick”

Alright, now here is his response.

 

“I don't see any problems with mailing it as long as it originates at the

destination. Placing a bug in a cache in Austrailia and mailing it to

the US doesn't seem fair, but really since the travel bug is owned by

someone, it is up to them to decide how to have it move. I know that

some folks don't want to have theirs fly, for example.

Jeremy”

 

So there you go, I will be sleeping much better tonight knowing that the Travel Bug Police will not be confiscating my bug when it touches down on Australian soil.

 

[This message was edited by Scout65 on June 17, 2002 at 06:03 PM.]

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Scout65 your some piece of work! Like I said before I have just ask for opinions and I so happen to think yours is wrong. I am going to play the game the way the original rules on the travel bug page allow. Tell me scout65 if your bug bounces around Australia for awhile then gets brought back to the United States should you get credit for the miles since your bug only got there in the first place by you mailing it. If you hadn't mailed it it might not have ever got there and therefore could not accumulate the miles on the way back. He says that the bugs belong to individuals it is up to them on how they move. To me this leaves it up to you to make up your own rules which I think is ridiculas, it opens up the door for people to not play by the guidelines set. I still think your wrong, all you have to do is read the travel bug page to see this. I would appreciate it if you could refrain from the name calling. All this could have been avoided if you weren't so rude in your original post. I still don't get why you were so defensive, you say it's because of Skydivers *NO* answer but like I said before why couldn't you just give your nice opinion like the rest did here. Hope your not married or have kids because I'm sure your hard to live with! Please don't reply scout65 I don't know if I could sit through another moronic paragragh from you! icon_eek.gif

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Whoa, nelly! Lot of emotion over a travel bug. Usually, I stay out of petty arguments, but this time I thought that Scout65 needed some support. How I read it, he was only trying to let you know that it's your bug, and your choice what to do with it, and don't be dissuaded from what you want to do by what other people think. Granted, maybe his first post wasn't worded as best as it could be, but throughout his replies, I saw attempts to be considerate and explain himself. YOU were the one attacking him and being defensive. icon_eek.gif

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...just trying to explain my point of view.

 

When I placed four travel bugs in the four corners of the US, I mailed the bugs to four different cachers to place them in their first cache. They did not accumulate miles until the first person retrieved them from their cache.

 

For example, Batman was placed in a cache in California, 1,828.84 miles west of my home. But Batman only currently has 630.77 miles of travel on him. His mission is to make it home (after visiting New York). It's just the reverse of sending him to New York and then to California. He won't accumulate any "extra miles" just because I mailed him.

 

Bottom line:

As long as the bug is initially placed in a cache remotely, how is that any different than having someone buy the bug and initially start it there?

 

Markwell

Chicago Geocachers

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Jwest420, you post an insulting reply to me and then tell me to not respond? Well that aint gonna happen captain. I'll reply to whomever I want, whenever I want.

Stellartrinity, thanks for the support, but my original post was worded exactly the way I wanted. I felt that jwest420 needed to understand that he is free to do whatever he wants with his bug. I didn't want the "in a word, no" answer to go undebated. You are right, I have tried very hard to be polite to jwest420 that is until now, and it's been difficult.

Jwest420, I showed you the ruling from the main dude (Jeremy) and you still think I'm wrong? I don't get it, I'm thoroughly convinced now that my reference to you as a *bone head * is accurate.

Why don't you fire off a message to Jeremy and tell him that he is wrong?

Then, let all of the Travel Bug owners know that YOU would like to see some rules made on what they can and cannot do with THEIR bugs, you'll make a lot of friends that way.

What people do with them is their bussiness, not yours.

As for your question "if your bug bounces around Australia for awhile then gets brought back to the United States should you get credit for the miles since your bug only got there in the first place by you mailing it."

Well, it's goal is to travel around in Australia, so there is really no reason for someone to bring it back here. But if a cacher did retreive it from a cache in Australia and then personally place in a cache here, then yes the miles would count. But again, I'm not the least bit intrested in the miles count.

I repeatedly wished you good luck with your bug, but now you better include an instruction with it to avoid Illinois, Missouri, and Indiana, because if I see it anywhere around here I'm gonna grab it, put a stamp on it's forehead, and send it to straight to Africa.

 

[This message was edited by Scout65 on June 18, 2002 at 01:58 PM.]

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Hey I just want to apologize to all the people in this forum for going on with such a petty argument! This apology however does not include scout65. It all started with him giving such a jerky response only to follow it up with telling me I had a thick skull and then calling me a bonehead. I know words shouldn't bother someone but I was new and didn't care for the verbal assualt, I got over calling people names when I left grade school. Now in most of his replys he would take a shot at me and then try to be polite so he didn't look so stupid. Now Scout65 has threatened to grab my bug if it travels across any of the three states of Missouri, Indiana and Illinois. I know this is an idle threat because he lives in Williamsville, Illinois and that would be alot of ground for him to cover and I'm sure he doesn't have the gumption to do this. This threat shouldn't bother me but after all the other post it does. What Scout65 should have realized is that I'm a student in Salt Lake City and my parents live in Champaign, Illinois I come home every couple of months. The person that took me caching lives there and to show scout65 this the next time he's out he's going to get your virtual cache and send me the number of missions the plane has flown. Then I will send it to Scout65 so he knows he was there. icon_biggrin.gif I will be home soon to visit and will probably go with my friend to check out Cache on the Kickapoo. icon_redface.gif This is my last post no matter what scout65 comes up with, See Ya.

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They are gosh darn travel bugs. They are an addition to the game. If you dont like something about the game then simply dont participate in that part of the game. Sure you can mildy whine about it from time to time, but I think you two need to kiss and make up and get a room at hotel 6 and call up an escort service.

 

If you know what I mean.

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Alright jwest, time for me to swallow my pride. The name calling was wrong, and I apologize to you for that.

The threat to mail your bug to Africa was also wrong. In fact, if I were to intentionally do anything to disrupt the successful outcome of it, I would have deserved to have my geocaching privileges yanked.

You made some good points that I should have given you credit for.

If you do decide to visit Cache on The Kickapoo I hope that you will show it the same respect as any other cache site. If it gets vandalized or tossed in the river(no, you didn't say that was your plan, but I'm assuming, hopefully incorrectly, that it was) it really doesn’t affect me much, it can be replaced for under ten bucks. But some people travel a long way to go caching and for them to waste their time and money looking for something that isn’t there would make them a victim of our dispute, and that would be a shame.

Again, I apologize for any of the statements that I made that were offensive to you.

So, that said, I wish you good luck and happy caching.

Scout65 a.k.a. Rick

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