Any side-by-side compares yet? D.PN-60, vs G.62s?

[+user13371]

Anyone had done side-by-side comparisons (both static and moving) between DeLorme PN-60 and Garmin 62s? Any pointers to review sites with these kinds of tests?

Edited August 10, 2010 by lee_rimar

[+MrRocketMan]

Anyone had done side-by-side comparisons (both static and moving) between DeLorme PN-60 and Garmin 62s? Any pointers to review sites with these kinds of tests?

 

I don't have a pn-60, but have done a side by side with my pn-40, and without question, the pn-40 is more accurate. I am hoping that since they both have the same chip set that the 62s will become just as accurate after the firmware matures but at this time without question the winner is the pn-40. The 62s seems to wander around while the pn-40 stays rock solid.

 

Hope that helps.

[+Unobtainium]

How are you comparing accuracy? Are you comparing against a known benchmark?

 

To me it sounds like you're only commenting on stability not accuracy. I wouldn't want a stable unit that was 30 meters out.

[+sammydee]

See my comments on the 62st's barometer in the main 62 thread. Comparing the PN-40 and the 62st, the 62st is severely flawed with respect to the altimeter. Still waiting for feedback from Garmin Support.

 

...Sam

[+MrRocketMan]

How are you comparing accuracy? Are you comparing against a known benchmark?

 

To me it sounds like you're only commenting on stability not accuracy. I wouldn't want a stable unit that was 30 meters out.

 

I am determining accuracy by averaging a waypoint in the middle of an open field with each unit and marking th spot. I then use both units to find the waypoint. The pn-40 ALWAYs shows 2ft or less when at the marked point and will hold that reading (2ft or less) for the hour or so that I leave it there. The 62s will do the same thing but and show about 3-4 ft standing on the spot and if you walk around with it trying to zero it out it can have you walking around anywhere from about 10 ft from the spot or less. If you let is set on the spot it will drift up to 12ft or so but normally less. The pn-40 takes you to the spot and sticks. I have tried the 62 both flat and vertical.

[+sammydee]

The pn-40 ALWAYs shows 2ft or less when at the marked point and will hold that reading (2ft or less) for the hour or so that I leave it there. The 62s will do the same thing but and show about 3-4 ft standing on the spot and if you walk around with it trying to zero it out it can have you walking around anywhere from about 10 ft from the spot or less. If you let is set on the spot it will drift up to 12ft or so but normally less. The pn-40 takes you to the spot and sticks. I have tried the 62 both flat and vertical.

 

My bet is the PN-40 is simply using its built-in accelerometer and notices that the unit isn't moving based on that ... and due to that it's ignoring the GPS entirely. If you tilted or otherwise jostled the PN-40 I'll bet it would take a new GPS reading, which would be off by some feet from the previous one.

 

I don't believe the 62st has one, so it's displaying GPS coords all the time.

 

I'm not sure how relevant this test case is to any real world scenario. I'm not likely to really sit, unmoving, at GZ for an hour.

 

...Sam

[+MrRocketMan]

The pn-40 ALWAYs shows 2ft or less when at the marked point and will hold that reading (2ft or less) for the hour or so that I leave it there. The 62s will do the same thing but and show about 3-4 ft standing on the spot and if you walk around with it trying to zero it out it can have you walking around anywhere from about 10 ft from the spot or less. If you let is set on the spot it will drift up to 12ft or so but normally less. The pn-40 takes you to the spot and sticks. I have tried the 62 both flat and vertical.

 

My bet is the PN-40 is simply using its built-in accelerometer and notices that the unit isn't moving based on that ... and due to that it's ignoring the GPS entirely. If you tilted or otherwise jostled the PN-40 I'll bet it would take a new GPS reading, which would be off by some feet from the previous one.

 

I don't believe the 62st has one, so it's displaying GPS coords all the time.

 

I'm not sure how relevant this test case is to any real world scenario. I'm not likely to really sit, unmoving, at GZ for an hour.

 

...Sam

 

Dude, I was just answering the guys question. He asked moving and static. That is what I answered if it was real world or not. And I did not say the pn40 did not change at all, it does, it just doesn't wander around as much.

[+TheRedArmy]

i'm starting to look outside of garmin for a gps, now that i've had 3 62s that squeak.

 

the pn-60 is next on my "to research list".

 

anyone point me to a good review on here?

[+boundr]

i'm starting to look outside of garmin for a gps, now that i've had 3 62s that squeak.

 

the pn-60 is next on my "to research list".

 

anyone point me to a good review on here?

 

Brucered, can you please describe the details of the 'squeak' that you had on the 62s? i.e. What steps are required to illicit a squeak? (certain buttons? all buttons? did it take some time after purchase before occurring? What did Garmin say? these are electronic devices, and I would normally associate a squeak w/ some physical aspect of the device.

 

thx in advanced,

-- boundr

[+TheRedArmy]

i'm starting to look outside of garmin for a gps, now that i've had 3 62s that squeak.

 

the pn-60 is next on my "to research list".

 

anyone point me to a good review on here?

 

Brucered, can you please describe the details of the 'squeak' that you had on the 62s? i.e. What steps are required to illicit a squeak? (certain buttons? all buttons? did it take some time after purchase before occurring? What did Garmin say? these are electronic devices, and I would normally associate a squeak w/ some physical aspect of the device.

 

thx in advanced,

-- boundr

 

squeak was right out of the box when you turned the unit on, or held it in your hands and gently pressed it on the sides, 2nd unit same, 3rd unit seemed solid, then developed a loud creak/squeak 2 days later. very frustrating for a $500gps, especially since i haven't been able to use one for a month because of sending back and forth getting RMA'd.

 

i also have a feeling even the solid units that people have will develop squeaks down the road but they will be past the return period, but that's just my guess.

 

here is where the squeak is:

 

 

thread on the squeak starts here: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=4414876 from that thread forward.

 

also here: http://garmingpsmap.wikispaces.com/message...w/home/25839933

 

my 3rd unit seemed solid, until i started using it a bit, then a squeak quickly developed.

 

here are the youtube videso on it. mine is the one upped by brucered, the others are not related to me, but same issue:

 

not mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4myv5taUVqk

 

my 1st unit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwtW2QuQxlk

 

my 3rd unit (seemed solid at first, now this): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRj_y8wxES0

 

not mine:

 

here are garmins replies:

 

1st reply:

Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I would be happy to help you with this.

 

I have went to the site that you gave me, and there isn't many posting there. Plus I have never heard of this issue before so as long as you aren't bear hugging your GPSMap 62, then please return it back to the unit so you can get a fast return.

If they are unwilling to return the unit, then please contact your Garmin’s Canadian Repair Company for any Warranty needs. You can contact RayTech at: www.RayTech.ca

 

Please let me know if you have any further questions. Thank you and have a great day!

 

2nd reply:

Dear Bruce ,

As Heath stated below if the unit is not performing or sounding the way you want please return it to the retailer for a exchange. Or you can contact Raytech at the link provided in the previous email.

 

3rd response from a different person this time:

Dear Bruce ,

To be honest this is the first I've heard of it, however there are quite a few product support specialists here. I've forwarded the information to my superiors so it can be passed on to the appropriate persons.

 

4th reply:

Dear Bruce,

We are not currently setting up any exchanges for units making a squeaking sound. The unit is still fully functional as a GPS unit and will perform all advertised functions.

 

With Best Regards,

Rowdy R

Product Support Specialist

 

apparently garmin emailed the CSR's stating that when they get calls and emails that they are to respond by saying it's normal and they will not RMA any more units, but again, that's just what i heard on here.

 

it sounds like a dollar store GPS, not a well crafted $400-500 top of the line GPS from garmin.

Edited August 16, 2010 by brucered

[+Unobtainium]

I am determining accuracy by averaging a waypoint in the middle of an open field with each unit and marking th spot. I then use both units to find the waypoint. The pn-40 ALWAYs shows 2ft or less when at the marked point and will hold that reading (2ft or less) for the hour or so that I leave it there. The 62s will do the same thing but and show about 3-4 ft standing on the spot and if you walk around with it trying to zero it out it can have you walking around anywhere from about 10 ft from the spot or less. If you let is set on the spot it will drift up to 12ft or so but normally less. The pn-40 takes you to the spot and sticks. I have tried the 62 both flat and vertical.

So you're testing repeatability and stability then, not accuracy. If the GPSr takes you back to where you were, you're happy, regardless of the coordinates it is giving for that location.

 

If you want to test accuracy, compare the coordinates given by the GPSr at a known benchmark location (like a trig point) against what the units are reporting.

[+Hank30721]

I am determining accuracy by averaging a waypoint in the middle of an open field with each unit and marking th spot. I then use both units to find the waypoint. The pn-40 ALWAYs shows 2ft or less when at the marked point and will hold that reading (2ft or less) for the hour or so that I leave it there. The 62s will do the same thing but and show about 3-4 ft standing on the spot and if you walk around with it trying to zero it out it can have you walking around anywhere from about 10 ft from the spot or less. If you let is set on the spot it will drift up to 12ft or so but normally less. The pn-40 takes you to the spot and sticks. I have tried the 62 both flat and vertical.

So you're testing repeatability and stability then, not accuracy. If the GPSr takes you back to where you were, you're happy, regardless of the coordinates it is giving for that location.

 

If you want to test accuracy, compare the coordinates given by the GPSr at a known benchmark location (like a trig point) against what the units are reporting.

 

Don't pass on repeatability too quickly. Being able to reproduce the same results over and over is always desirable and important. If it performed inconsistently, then the coordinates wouldn't matter anyway. A handheld GPS'r is not going to be that close to the "real" coordinates anyway, but if the results are consistent then the errors are also. Just like sighting in a rifle - a consistent group in the wrong place is easily correctable. Not so much if the gun never shoots the same way twice - it could be unrepairable. Consistency must be achieved first - then calibration.

 

One benchmarking test we use to test Trimble surveying units at work, is to mark a point and return to that point 12 hours later (not using a groundstation).

Edited August 19, 2010 by Hank30721

[+Unobtainium]

Ok, to use your gun example for geocaching. Shoot a pattern with a particular gun, then come back with another example of the same make and model of the same gun and shoot the same pattern again. There will be a random offset which will not be easy to correct. But if both guns were accurate, that wouldn't be such a problem.

 

We're kind of getting off track. The OP stated that he had tested accuracy and I was meerly pointing out that he hadn't. His tests are still valid, just for something else.