When do You log a DNF

[+randco]

I recently had a conversation about logging DNF's with another cacher. I will log a DNF if I visit a site, actively look for the cache and finally give up finding it on that particular day. I will log the DNF and put the cache on a Watchlist so that I can monitor any activity. If I return to the site and give up again I will log another DNF. I have done this for a few caches.

 

The person with whom I had the conversation says that he won't log a DNF until he has totally given up on finding the cache. In one situation he has been to a cache site three times and has not found the cache. He has not logged a DNF.

 

What is you opinion about when to log a DNF?

[GermanSailor]

I will log a DNF if I visit a site, actively look for the cache and finally give up finding it on that particular day. I will log the DNF and put the cache on a Watchlist so that I can monitor any activity. [...]

What is you opinion about when to log a DNF?

My opinion is the same as yours. DNF is the most important log-type. It shows the owner that there might be something wrong with his or her geocache.

 

So, please log your DNFs!

 

GermanSailor

[+ngrrfan]

It's a game with no rules, only guidelines, so play it any way you want.

 

Both of you are right, both of you are wrong.

You play your way, he plays it his way.

 

Although like germansailor says, it can alert the CO that there might be a problem with the hide, and it also creates a trail for future NM or NA logs.

Edited August 4, 2010 by ngrrfan

[hoosier guy]

If I have spent enough time IMO considering the difficulty rating and still have not found it then I post a DNF. The thought being that if there is a problem with the cache thismight encourage others to post DNFs, NM Etc and save cachers time while alerting the CO.

[+briansnat]

If I start the hunt and come up empty, I log a DNF. I consider the hunt started when I bring up the waypoint on my GPS and hit Go To.

 

If I attempt the cache 5 times and don't find it, I log 5 DNFs. The only exception would be multiple attempts in the same day. I'd combine those all into one log.

[+WRASTRO]

I recently had a conversation about logging DNF's with another cacher. I will log a DNF if I visit a site, actively look for the cache and finally give up finding it on that particular day. I will log the DNF and put the cache on a Watchlist so that I can monitor any activity. If I return to the site and give up again I will log another DNF. I have done this for a few caches.

 

The person with whom I had the conversation says that he won't log a DNF until he has totally given up on finding the cache. In one situation he has been to a cache site three times and has not found the cache. He has not logged a DNF.

 

What is you opinion about when to log a DNF?

I follow pretty much the same strategy as you. That works for me.

[+Dragery]

If it's a stupid easy hide, like an LPH, I'll log a DNF after not finding it right away. However if I go up to a 3+ star hide, I more than likely wont log a DNF until I've gone back 2-3+ times, and given a SERIOUS effort to my search.

[+Ecylram]

I log a DNF if I've given a good hard search for the cache.

[+lachupa]

I log them when I think its the cache and not user error. By that I mean that if I have downloaded a pocket query and don't find a cache when something pops up I figure that it's mostly because I don't really know what I'm looking for. When I get home I pull it up to see what I missed. If it looks like I was in the right place and that there may be a problem I log a DNF. I log them right away if I go to a cache on pupose with a good idea what I'm looking for an can't find it.

 

I bookmark it and wait to see if someone else finds it before I go out there.

 

I'm new though so far all my DNF's were in town where there is a high chance of muggle contaminatin.

[Andronicus]

I log a DNF (did not find) when I looked, but didn't find it. Fairly easy formula.

At one point I have gone back and changed some of my old DNFs to notes when I discovered that the cache had been missing. In hindsite, I kind of think that was silly.

[+Quossum]

I log a DNF if I look and don't find it. Once I went back to a cache the very next day and looked again, still didn't find it, but just edited the DNF to add that info rather than log two DNFs two days in a row.

 

I think people should be willing to log DNFs not just as information to the CO but to other searchers. I once DNFed a difficult cache that had only one previous DNF. I felt pretty lame to be one of only two that couldn't find it. But then, when I went back and read all the logs, many of them said things like, "Have been here three times before finding it," and "This was my second try here," yet those people never logged their previous visits. If they had, the number of DNF's would've more accurately reflected how challenging the hide really was.

 

All that said, though, I have no problem with others not seeing it the same way. All depends on how you play the game, so long as you're honest.

 

--Q

[+Sol seaker]

I log a DNF if I look for it and don't find it.

 

I find DNF's incredible important to the game.

 

The most important thing is to let the Cache Owner know that there may be a problem with his cache.

 

If no one DNF's then we could all be searching for something that is not even there.

 

 

But also, when I'm preparing a cache run I look at the number of DNF's to the number of finds.

 

If there are a large number of DNF's then I will read the logs for clues.

 

I will also know that that is a hard one, and will leave it off my life if I don't have much time, or put a note on it to look in all the tough places and not expect it to be an ammo box behind a tree.

[+randco]

Thanks for all of the replies so far. A good comparison for me is to compare geocaching and golf. Not logging a DNF is like not counting all of ones strokes when playing a round of golf.

 

If I have a previous DNF for a cache and receive email notifications that the cache is being found by others, I know that I need to do a better job searching the next time I visit the site. In golf, if I don't tally all of my strokes I won't know if I am getting better at the game, especially if I play the same course a lot. For me it has a lot to do with honesty.

[+benderoos]

I usually log a DNF if I look for at least a few minutes and can't find it. I am fairly new to caching, but I have already had a cache owner go to check their cache after I logged my DNF, and found it to be missing. He replaced, and e-mailed me to let me know its back where it should be.

[+Scubasonic]

I recently had a conversation about logging DNF's with another cacher. I will log a DNF if I visit a site, actively look for the cache and finally give up finding it on that particular day. I will log the DNF and put the cache on a Watchlist so that I can monitor any activity. If I return to the site and give up again I will log another DNF. I have done this for a few caches.

 

The person with whom I had the conversation says that he won't log a DNF until he has totally given up on finding the cache. In one situation he has been to a cache site three times and has not found the cache. He has not logged a DNF.

 

What is you opinion about when to log a DNF?

 

I hardly ever log them, but then I don't have many.

 

Scubasonic

[+popokiiti]

If we did not find it, we log a DNF. We are a bit more thick-skinned now than we were in the beginning - we thought we were failures then. Sometimes the logging of DNFs can result in a change in the difficulty rating. One such cache was a great hide (or should I say sneaky, evil, great hide) with a difficulty of 1. I actually touched where it was (cammoed with bark attached by magnets to a dead tree) but we came up empty. The difficulty rating was increased after a few DNFs - not just ours. That made us think a bit more deviously and we got it.

[+Boxcars]

I'm new, and when I see nothing but recent finds in the logs, I won't log my DNF because I just figure I'm stupid, and just didn't find it, and will try again in the future, when I have more experience. If I see some recent DNF's then I will log it to corroborate other recent searches, and help alert the owner.

[+briansnat]

I'm new, and when I see nothing but recent finds in the logs, I won't log my DNF because I just figure I'm stupid, and just didn't find it, and will try again in the future, when I have more experience. If I see some recent DNF's then I will log it to corroborate other recent searches, and help alert the owner.

 

If you do that and the cache is actually missing, it will take longer for a string of DNFs to develop to alert the owner of a possible problem.

 

You have to remember that a DNF only means that you didn't find the cache. It doesn't mean that the cache is missing, or anything other than you didn't find a cache. There is a cache that had close to 100 finds without a logged DNF. My wife and I searched 45 minutes and came up empty. I was certain it had to be gone and logged my DNF. It was found a day or two later "easily" and I don't think there has been a DNF on it since mine. It was obviously just my stupidity, but it is a DNF just the same.

 

Say a cache goes missing. Cacher 1 doesn't log a DNF because he doesn't think he searched hard enough. Cacher 2 doesn't log a DNF because he thinks he is just being stupid. Cacher 3 comes up empty and doesn't log a DNF because he plans to try again. Cacher 4 then logs a DNF. Now the owner is only aware of 1 DNF when in reality there were 4. 1 DNF will not cause most owners to check on a cache, so the owner will likely put off a maint check until there are more DNFs. Meanwhile more cachers will be wasting their time looking for a missing cache

[+Chokecherry]

I looked at a cache I was at yesterday and noticed in years I was the only DNF on it. I wasn't embarrassed. I had a legitimate DNF. I didn't put the effort in I would have wanted to because I was having a long change with someone I met on the trail.

[+TheRedArmy]

if i give it an honest go at it, check the logs, check the hint, cache size etc and still can't find it, i log it a DNF. if i'm with the kids or my wife and they want to give up but i don't , then i just leave it and don't log anything.

 

if i go back to it and can't find it, i don't log a 2nd DNF, i don't log it again until i find it.

[+Panther&Pine]

When we actually get to GZ and have looked for at least 5 mins, then we log a DNF

Some times (due to the terrian and my blind desire to follow the arrow) we get within 100 feet but are really about a .25 mile of walking from GZ.

[+Boxcars]

I do agree with Briansnat, you make a very good point. I guess my concern is what if the last three logs are all DNF's from newbies? That may discourage someone else from looking for it, even though it is there. I guess I need to get over feeling bad about a dnf. Bottom line is I'm having fun.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Boxcars

[+GASTX]

If I look for the cache and dont find it I log it as a DNF, no matter how much or how little time I tried looking.

Edited August 8, 2010 by ClanStan

[+tozainamboku]

Thanks for all of the replies so far. A good comparison for me is to compare geocaching and golf. Not logging a DNF is like not counting all of ones strokes when playing a round of golf.

I view it more like a baseball batting average. I like to calculate my geocaching average by dividing the number of finds by the total number of attempts (finds plus DNFs). Not logging a DNF is like not counting all your at bats in baseball.

 

Now go and look up the official baseball rules for counting at bats. You will see there are all sorts of exceptions where a plate appearance doesn't count as an at bat: the player walks, the player is hit by a pitch, the player hits a sacrifice fly or a bunt, the player is awarded first base due to interference or obstruction, the inning ends when a runner is caught stealing, etc. Now geocaching does have any official rules, so I guess each player is free to decide what is an "at bat" and what isn't.

Edited August 9, 2010 by tozainamboku

[+WRASTRO]

I do agree with Briansnat, you make a very good point. I guess my concern is what if the last three logs are all DNF's from newbies? That may discourage someone else from looking for it, even though it is there. I guess I need to get over feeling bad about a dnf. Bottom line is I'm having fun.

As has been shown, many more seasoned cachers (including me) often have problems with caches that newbies have found easily. Please don't worry that your DNF will scare someone away from hunting for any particular cache. Share your experience and keep on having fun. It is up to the CO to decide when to go and check on a hide that has multiple DNF logs in a row.

[+kwcahart]

I will log a DNF if I visit a site, actively look for the cache and finally give up finding it on that particular day. I will log the DNF and put the cache on a Watchlist so that I can monitor any activity. [...]

What is you opinion about when to log a DNF?

My opinion is the same as yours. DNF is the most important log-type. It shows the owner that there might be something wrong with his or her geocache.

 

So, please log your DNFs!

 

GermanSailor

 

Good answer GermanSailor, I agree. It has been my experience that logging a DNF doesn't make much difference to a lot of Cache Owners, they never check their caches and never reply to a DNF. I log a DNF when I give up and DNF!

Edited August 9, 2010 by kwhart

[+Waazdag]

I log a DNF as soon as I look for a cache and do not find it... that means I'll have to actually get out of the car and get to GZ and LOOK for the cache... if I cannot get to GZ to look, then I may sometimes post a note... but otherwise, if I look and do not find, then I will log it as such. I feel it is a courtesy to the cache owner to alert them to possible problems/missing caches etc... unfortunately though, others do not do the same... and some even log it as "found" when missing... just because they looked... to each their own... but frankly these smiley because I was there types are no better then throw downers...

[+eastnortheast]

If I look for the cache and dont find it I log it as a DNF, no matter how much or how little time I tried looking.

 

Pretty much the same here. If we made an honest effort to come up with it and were unable to, so be it. I am by no means very experienced, but DNF logs are sometimes as helpful to me as Found logs.

[+niraD]

If I reach GZ and search for the cache, then I log either Found or DNF. I've posted multiple DNFs for a single cache, when I've returned to GZ and still been unable to find the cache.

[+randco]

Thanks for all of the replies. This has been interesting. I have read through the replies and have come up with the following.

 

There are logs by 13 people including me, that believe when you get to GZ, search and don't find anything a DNF should be logged. One person had no real opinion, two would log a DNF if they spent enough time based on the difficulty, two would log a DNF only if they had given a good hard search, there were three "all depends" replies and one "I hardly log them".

 

As ngrrfan indicated in Post #3, "It's a game with no rules, only guidelines, so play it any way you want."

 

I guess this is true, but it wouldn't matter if there were rules, some would always try to find a way around them. As it's said, "different strokes for different folks."

 

The reason I started this topic was based on an email conversation I had with someone trying to find a cache of mine. I was told by the person looking for the cache that they had been to the sight three times and had not found the cache. I asked them why they didn't log a DNF and they told me that they would not log a DNF until they were ready to totally give up on finding it.

 

I guess that's why we are all individuals.

 

Have fun everyone and enjoy the game. I know, I sure do, DNF's and all.

[SlayerOfBunnies]

I try to log all DNFs (and boy, am I starting to collect those!). I'm hunting without a GPS so some DNFs are to be expected.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Actually, I do log most of my DNFs (despite what I say on the fora.) Thank you. I am up to 307 DNFs. Almost never will I post more than one DNF on a particular cache. (There area lot of cache where DNFs inflate the CO ego.) I seldom log DNFs on vacation caches, unless I'm pretty sure it's missing. But, on vacation caches, I don't have as much time to spend hunting.. I do not let previous DNFs stop me from hunting a cache (unless it's obvious that it's missing.) In fact, I walked right up to two caches recently with a string of DNFs. Curious that the vacation caches that I have chosen to DNF have had no finds snce, yet are still active. One from June of 2009, with one subsequent DNF, and no finds. CO still active. One from June of this year "If it's attached with velcro, it's missing." But the CO has not signed on since then. Oh, well.

I do find "The Importance of DNFs" to overinflated. If I get DNFs on my caches, I consider the cache (some are more proned to muggles than others), and the experience of the cacher writing the DNF (Though I am quite capable of tripping over a 1/1 and DNFing it.) With that in mind, about half the DNFs I've performed maintenance on were still there. Pretty much a waste of my time. Oh, well. All part of life.

[+TreasureKid's]

We mainly cache as a family and log most DNF's. Our only exceptions are first if we do not make it to GZ and second if the kids are the only ones that have looked and we were not present. As they do that give up after 5 sec thing that happens once in a while.

[+briansnat]

I do agree with Briansnat, you make a very good point. I guess my concern is what if the last three logs are all DNF's from newbies? That may discourage someone else from looking for it, even though it is there. I guess I need to get over feeling bad about a dnf. Bottom line is I'm having fun.

 

If the three logs are all DNFs from newbies then it is possible that the cache might be rated too low for difficulty. Most newbies should be able to find a difficulty 1 cache fairly easily. If the owner rated the cache as difficulty 1 the DNFs will tell him that perhaps he should bump up the difficulty a notch or two. So the DNFs are helpful.

 

And other cachers will see the logs, probably notice that they came from newbies and they less likely to scared off by the DNFs.

[+Original A1]

Well I don't always log a DNF and that's because I don't always think I've done justice to the hunt.

 

There were technically 2 DNFs on my caching list today. The first was where 3 of us who with a combined total of over 8000 finds couldn't find what looked like it would be an easy cache. It was pouring with rain and we were pretty sure we knew what we were looking for, so I posted a DNF and the cache owner has immediately disabled it to look for himself, especially given someone else DNFed a few days ago.

 

The second cache, however, merited a note instead of a DNF. As explained in the note, I didn't consider it to be a real DNF because despite taking AGES to look, we didn't actually get near enough to GZ to say it was a genuine DNF. The nearest we got was 400 feet, again in the pouring rain in the middle of a forest! It serves little purpose to anyone to imply it might be missing when we didn't do justice to the hunt, but I wrote a rather lengthy note about our (mis)adventures.

 

As a cache owner, I tend to look and see how many finds the DNF poster has achieved before rushing out to do something about the cache. Although it's perfectly possible of course for a newbie to make a find where an experienced cacher doesn't, the odds are it will be the other way round.

 

I'm not ashamed to say I DNFed but as I think it demonstrates above, there are varying circumstances to caching, not all of which require such a log.

 

Edited August 10, 2010 by Original A1

[SlayerOfBunnies]

Logged three more DNFs today. One was *just* taken down for maintenance I think. One was in a spot where I *think* I was going to have to stand in possibly sewage tainted water (so said the warning signs) to find it - no thanks. The other was a micro in a high muggle zone.

 

Such is life. I still feel like a man.

 

p.s. Found three others though.

Edited August 11, 2010 by SlayerOfBunnies

[+StarBrand]

If I start the hunt and come up empty, I log a DNF. I consider the hunt started when I bring up the waypoint on my GPS and hit Go To.

 

If I attempt the cache 5 times and don't find it, I log 5 DNFs. The only exception would be multiple attempts in the same day. I'd combine those all into one log.

 

Ditto.