Alphabet Soup Challenge difficulty?

[+ArtieD]

I have submitted an Alphabet Soup challenge cache for my state and I am having an issue deciding what the posted difficulty should be. The final cache is easy to retrieve and get to, but should I account for the effort in obtaining the 26 other caches needed to claim the final? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Keystone]

It depends on how hard it is to fulfill the challenge as you've defined it. How many caches within 50 miles of the final start with hard letters like Q and Z? Do you allow prior finds? Do you disallow new caches published after the Challenge Cache?

 

In my area, someone published an alphabet challenge. Someone else then hid a series of 26 caches, all within the same area as the challenge, with single letter cache titles: A, B, C, D.... If you allow newly published caches, I predict this could be a difficulty 2 cache pretty quickly!

[+TABjuggler]

-I have only been caching since May and I have all but L, Q, V, X, Z

(I was able to find every letter in the county I live in currently, except that there is only one X cache which is temp. disabled at the moment)

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...35-b4b7f2f086ad

Whole state of Florida - difficulty 4.5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...57-2cde99997e03

A-Z that includes only ONE traditional cache and must include at least 8 cache types. - difficulty 3.5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...89-d878d6502525

Must find a cache hidden by a cache OWNER whose username starts with A-Z and 0-9 - difficulty 5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...11-629d5b51d8f5

A-Z JUST in Baker County, FL - Difficulty 3.5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ee-30ca6c07d7d0

A-Z JUST in Brevard County, Fl - Difficulty 5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...39-799dcfeafe09

A-Z JUST in Volusia County, Fl - Difficulty 4.5

 

They vary quite a bit, but based on this it should be somewhere between a 3.5 and 5 and I would say it should depend on how many caches of the hard letters there are in the area.

 

If there is only one X in your county and you are making it JUST that county, make it a 4.5 or 5.

 

If you allow it for the entire state, make it a 3.5 or 4

 

If you allow it for anywhere in the US, but the final is in your state, make it a 3.5

 

That seems to make sense based on the numbers.

Edited July 30, 2010 by TABjuggler

[+narcissa]

I think it should be difficulty 5 due to the frustration the cache will cause local cachers when people start dropping lame micros with names starting with Q and Z. Happened here, and... argh.

[+Chokecherry]

Shoot I had a easy time with Z. It's Q, Y, and X I'm stuck at. Oh, that and I have to go 200 miles to actually find the final cache.

 

I guess a cache owner near to this alphabet soup cache dropped a bunch of a caches with weird letters. His are no longer able to use used on that particular challenge.

 

I think the difficulty is about 4 on the one I'm looking at but you're also finding a micro at the end. So that might have some bearing on that.

 

On a side note... I'd look to see the saturation of those sorts of challenges in your state. I looked in mine there seemed to be many of that kind of challenge.

[+Ike 13]

Here's how I would set it up. I would allow prior finds. I would NOT allow finds on caches published after this one is published (this prevents the placement of easy micros with those harder letters). Each cache has to be within the state.

 

Try your best to use PQ's to see which letters are rare. I say start at 1.5 and had a half star for each rare letter.

 

I just looked at SC. It is a 4. It does not have a date restriction, which basically means it becomes easier over time.

[+gpsfun]

I recommend that the difficulty rating be based on the actual cache to be found at the end of the challenge, not on completing the challenge itself. Some challenge cache owners agree with me and others do not. All other things being OK, I'll publish the challenge cache page with whatever difficulty rating the owner desires. I just try to ensure that the owner has given it some thought first.

[+SpaceGamer]

The form used to estimate the difficulty of a cache has the language, "Cache may be very well hidden, may be multi-leg, or may use clues to location" which raises the difficulty to a three. In my area the norm is to consider the difficulty of the challenge into the rating, then list the difficulty of the actual cache in the cache description.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

-I have only been caching since May and I have all but L, Q, V, X, Z

(I was able to find every letter in the county I live in currently, except that there is only one X cache which is temp. disabled at the moment)

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...35-b4b7f2f086ad

Whole state of Florida - difficulty 4.5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...57-2cde99997e03

A-Z that includes only ONE traditional cache and must include at least 8 cache types. - difficulty 3.5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...89-d878d6502525

Must find a cache hidden by a cache OWNER whose username starts with A-Z and 0-9 - difficulty 5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...11-629d5b51d8f5

A-Z JUST in Baker County, FL - Difficulty 3.5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ee-30ca6c07d7d0

A-Z JUST in Brevard County, Fl - Difficulty 5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...39-799dcfeafe09

A-Z JUST in Volusia County, Fl - Difficulty 4.5

 

They vary quite a bit, but based on this it should be somewhere between a 3.5 and 5 and I would say it should depend on how many caches of the hard letters there are in the area.

 

If there is only one X in your county and you are making it JUST that county, make it a 4.5 or 5.

 

If you allow it for the entire state, make it a 3.5 or 4

 

If you allow it for anywhere in the US, but the final is in your state, make it a 3.5

 

That seems to make sense based on the numbers.

 

Wow. Six different A-Z caches in Florida? I've been caching for 3.5 years and although I'm sure there are some A-Z challenges in NY, I've never seen a listing for one. I haven't confirmed, but I doubt that an A-Z challenge would even be possible using the existing caches in my County.

[AZcachemeister]

See Keystone's post.

Too may variables to quantify.

[+wimseyguy]

Even if you exclude caches published after the challenge, how can you prevent someone from editing the title of an older cache just so their buddy can get the elusive Q/X/Z cache?

 

I predict that continued control freak behavior with challenge caches will ultimately be their undoing, just as it was with ALR's and virtual caches. Just put it out there so that people can have FUN completing it and finding the cache. Make the difficulty the actual difficulty of the hide, plus one star for the extra effort of finding the 26 prerequisites.

Edited July 31, 2010 by wimseyguy

[+ArtieD]

I appreciate your opinion, but the reason there are restrictions listed is because without them, I might as well put out 26 lame micros and tell people to find them then find the Alphabet Soup cache. Doesn't sound like much of a challenge, does it?

 

In all reality, my challenge doesn't have many restrictions:

 

1. You have to find new caches (no old finds) and those caches have to have been published before the challenge...

 

2. You can't find your own caches or change the cache name to suit the challenge...

 

3. You have to find your own caches (no combining with another person) and they have to be permanent caches.

 

I fail to see how these rules are so bad?

[+TABjuggler]

3. You have to find your own caches (no combining with another person) and they have to be permanent caches.

 

I fail to see how these rules are so bad?

 

Although I like caching alone, this is a stupid rule. I think more people cache with partners or friends than by themselves.

 

Unless you are just saying that you can't have 13 letters and go with a friend that has the other 13 letters you don't have.

 

IMO if it is the former case, your rule is bad.

If it is the latter case, than I think that goes without saying and stating your rule like that only confuses an issue that should have been a no brainer and had no need to be specified.

[+TABjuggler]

-I have only been caching since May and I have all but L, Q, V, X, Z

(I was able to find every letter in the county I live in currently, except that there is only one X cache which is temp. disabled at the moment)

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...35-b4b7f2f086ad

Whole state of Florida - difficulty 4.5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...57-2cde99997e03

A-Z that includes only ONE traditional cache and must include at least 8 cache types. - difficulty 3.5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...89-d878d6502525

Must find a cache hidden by a cache OWNER whose username starts with A-Z and 0-9 - difficulty 5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...11-629d5b51d8f5

A-Z JUST in Baker County, FL - Difficulty 3.5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ee-30ca6c07d7d0

A-Z JUST in Brevard County, Fl - Difficulty 5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...39-799dcfeafe09

A-Z JUST in Volusia County, Fl - Difficulty 4.5

 

They vary quite a bit, but based on this it should be somewhere between a 3.5 and 5 and I would say it should depend on how many caches of the hard letters there are in the area.

 

If there is only one X in your county and you are making it JUST that county, make it a 4.5 or 5.

 

If you allow it for the entire state, make it a 3.5 or 4

 

If you allow it for anywhere in the US, but the final is in your state, make it a 3.5

 

That seems to make sense based on the numbers.

 

Wow. Six different A-Z caches in Florida? I've been caching for 3.5 years and although I'm sure there are some A-Z challenges in NY, I've never seen a listing for one. I haven't confirmed, but I doubt that an A-Z challenge would even be possible using the existing caches in my County.

 

Yeah, I also like that there are a few different types of ones (state, county, COs, non-traditional). I plan to do the Florida A-Z (state) with all mystery caches

[+ArtieD]

Unless you are just saying that you can't have 13 letters and go with a friend that has the other 13 letters you don't have.

 

That is precisely what I am saying.

 

If it is the latter case, than I think that goes without saying and stating your rule like that only confuses an issue that should have been a no brainer and had no need to be specified.

 

What should be a no brainer isn't always and as such it's stated. If there's one thing I have learned over time, it's never to assume anything.

[+TABjuggler]

Unless you are just saying that you can't have 13 letters and go with a friend that has the other 13 letters you don't have.

 

That is precisely what I am saying.

 

If it is the latter case, than I think that goes without saying and stating your rule like that only confuses an issue that should have been a no brainer and had no need to be specified.

 

What should be a no brainer isn't always and as such it's stated. If there's one thing I have learned over time, it's never to assume anything.

 

I guess I was just thinking that since when I read that rule I thought you were saying only solo caches counted. But yeah you are right about the assuming. I love when I read DNF logs that say something like "My GPS was pointing me in the middle of the street and I walked around all the corners but didn't find it". Yeah you guessed it, it was a mystery cache that required you to read the description.