Help with an idea

[+Brantflakes]

Most people have car jacks readily available (or at least with some planning ahead) when they go caching. How could I make a cache that isn't dangerous but forces the cacher to use a car jack to retrieve it?

[knowschad]

How? I don't know. Why would you want to. I'd assume that since you asked the question, that you already had some ideas.

[Clan Riffster]

Find an abandoned car in the woods?

Jack it up and shove an ammo can under it?

If folks come up with an alternate method, kudos for them?

[+thedeadpirate]

Ok, here's something I threw together.

 

 

You have a 500lb block of solid steel (or concrete). On the top you have a channel. On one side you have a place to drop a key in so that it can't be retrieved by any devices such at clamps, magnets, etc. You get the idea.

 

On the other side of the channel you have a hinged door.

 

There is a brace that keeps the thing from tilting back and leaves room to get your jack in.

 

You have to jack the whole thing up on one side and the key slides to the other side.

 

You then use the key to open a locked cache.

 

OR, you could alter a safe and use it as the item to jack up and then unlock.

 

Tons of fun for everyone. Especially the idiots buddies you talk into helping you lug it out to ground zero.

 

[+SwineFlew]

Ok, here's something I threw together.

 

 

You have a 500lb block of solid steel (or concrete). On the top you have a channel. On one side you have a place to drop a key in so that it can't be retrieved by any devices such at clamps, magnets, etc. You get the idea.

 

On the other side of the channel you have a hinged door.

 

There is a brace that keeps the thing from tilting back and leaves room to get your jack in.

 

You have to jack the whole thing up on one side and the key slides to the other side.

 

You then use the key to open a locked cache.

 

OR, you could alter a safe and use it as the item to jack up and then unlock.

 

Tons of fun for everyone. Especially the idiots buddies you talk into helping you lug it out to ground zero.

 

Does that require some digging to set it up? Like I care, dig away! I will look for that cache if I am in the area.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

First, find some lumber...

 

[+thedeadpirate]

Does that require some digging to set it up? Like I care, dig away! I will look for that cache if I am in the area.

 

Nope. Everything on the ground.

 

Now if you owned the property and didn't mind digging, you could use an unaltered safe and dig a jack pit under one side.

 

You could also eliminate the brace.

Edited July 27, 2010 by GeoBain

[+humboldt flier]

FWIW,

 

Many folks do not use a jack properly and if it slips while someone is under the car ... well, i think you get the picture.

 

In a town just a bit to the south a long time mechanic was found crushed under a car by his kids. I can only assume that a person with 22+ years as a mechanic probably had a good idea about safety.

 

Then of course there is the old adage " familiarity breeds contempt ". Perhaps he was so familiar with safety issues he simply overlooked a step which led to his death. Perhaps there was equipment failure.

 

In my humble opinion ... leave this idea in the idea bag and do not implement it.

[+thedeadpirate]

(I'm not sure anyone is taking this serious)

[+SwineFlew]

FWIW,

 

Many folks do not use a jack properly and if it slips while someone is under the car ... well, i think you get the picture.

 

yep, my dad's cousin was killed that way. He was just married a few weeks when it happens. My dad told me this story and I always be extremely careful when I am jacking something. Believe it or not, I thought of this story when I first read the OP. All in all, I am against anything that require you to jack up something heavy. All it take is one bad apple to spoil it all for us guys that know what we are doing.

[+mountainman38]

First, find some lumber...

 

I don't think what he's doing is safe. That block behind the tire could slip, and the truck might roll over his foot.

[+thedeadpirate]

First, find some lumber...

 

I don't think what he's doing is safe. That block behind the tire could slip, and the truck might roll over his foot.

 

I was so concentrated on the welding of the gas tank that I totally missed the block behind the tire.

[+mountainman38]

First, find some lumber...

 

I don't think what he's doing is safe. That block behind the tire could slip, and the truck might roll over his foot.

 

I was so concentrated on the welding of the gas tank that I totally missed the block behind the tire.

Exactly. It's the little things that will get you -- like the lack of proper tread on his tires. Not safe. Not safe.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

First, find some lumber...

 

I don't think what he's doing is safe. That block behind the tire could slip, and the truck might roll over his foot.

 

I was so concentrated on the welding of the gas tank that I totally missed the block behind the tire.

Exactly. It's the little things that will get you -- like the lack of proper tread on his tires. Not safe. Not safe.

 

Well it's not likely he's going to be able to legally drive it anyway. It's missing a license plate.

[+Chokecherry]

Are we talking bottle jack? You need to determine the jack you are going to ask people drag out there first.

[+Max and 99]

We enjoy adventurous caching, but I think I would avoid trying to find a cache that requires the use of a jack!

[+atmospherium]

Most people have car jacks readily available (or at least with some planning ahead) when they go caching.

Hmmm, I carry a couple of pens, extra batteries, a notebook, a bottle of water, and my GPSr when I go caching. I totally forgot about the car jack.

[+humboldt flier]

Back to the jack thingy.

 

I have reservationa about this as previously stated.

 

However, if there was a certain amount of staging and pre-work done:

 

For example:

 

A poured concrete jacking base in the correct location.

 

Car tires securely chocked / blocked.

 

The jack point beneath the car spray painted red so it could be easily identified.

 

Sufficient blocks of wood for under frame placement to support the vehicle in case of jack slippage or jack failure.

 

Treat the whole thing as a multi stage cache.:

Laminated instruction sheet in one stage.

Jack in yet another stage.

Etc., etc., etc.

 

At least you would have eliminated certain variables, shown due diligence etc. etc. etc

 

Whether those steps would keep you whole in the event of a lawsuit revolving around the search for this cache is unclear ...

[Andronicus]

Don't worry about all these safety nuts. Each cacher is responsible for their own safety, not you. Make a cool jack cache, put a quick note on the page to follow the safety warnings on the jack used, and let people make their own decisions. I personaly think it is a cool idea. And yes, I usualy have a car jack with me when I cache. As long as this is not a back country cache, I would definatly be in!

 

PS. If i had to crawl under something heavy maybe not, but if it is sticking a hand under, cool!

[+humboldt flier]

Side bar:

 

There are old pilots.

 

There are bold pilots.

 

BUT, there are no old bold pilots.

[Clan Riffster]

Many folks do not use a jack properly and if it slips while someone is under the car ... well, i think you get the picture.

People get to experience the concept of Darwinism first hand? Not sure that's a bad thing.

It even suggests a cache title: "Idiots May Not Survive".

 

Each cacher is responsible for their own safety, not you.

Gasp! How dare you suggest that folks be responsible for their own actions! Have you no shame?

[+wimseyguy]

I found a few caches with a Jack while we were attending GW8 in the Seattle area earlier this month.

[+Charlie Fingers]

My (serious) suggestion would be a very heavy door with a plate attached that a jack can be placed under. The jack has to raise the plate thus raising the door until a hole is visible where the jack handle can be placed into it as a safety block in case the jack fails or the plate breaks.

 

 

(The little V's are arrows pointing to the named object.)

Once the door is secure the cacher can then reach in and retrieve the container. All of this would of course be built into a wall or the side of an enclosure.

[AZcachemeister]

FWIW,

 

Many folks do not use a jack properly and if it slips while someone is under the car ... well, i think you get the picture.

 

In a town just a bit to the south a long time mechanic was found crushed under a car by his kids. I can only assume that a person with 22+ years as a mechanic probably had a good idea about safety.

 

Then of course there is the old adage " familiarity breeds contempt ". Perhaps he was so familiar with safety issues he simply overlooked a step which led to his death. Perhaps there was equipment failure.

 

In my humble opinion ... leave this idea in the idea bag and do not implement it.

 

Obviously suicide.

[AZcachemeister]

Why is everyone focusing on jacking something UP?

Perhaps something could be jacked SIDEWAYS?

[+brslk]

Why are people assuming that the intended cache would involve a car at all?

[+thedeadpirate]

Why are people assuming that the intended cache would involve a car at all?

 

I'm not. I'm just assuming that whatever cache would require a jack is going to involve something really heavy being lifted.

 

But as was pointed out, a jack could be used to move something sideways. That would actually be safe the way I see it in my head.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Why is everyone focusing on jacking something UP?

Perhaps something could be jacked SIDEWAYS?

 

This is what I was thinking! This could simply be a matter of pushing a large boulder/block/object sideways to reveal a cavity with cache inside. The trick would be having it stable enough to be moved repeatedly while staying in a predictable location.

[+wolfslady]

My bad. I thought you wanted to have a cache where you have to car jack someone to get it.

 

If I'm going to take the 80' ladder for the tree caches and the stroller for the long hike caches and the beach bag for the swim to caches and my walking sticks, case of mosquito repellent, the box of DVD's for Wolf's Song, Rope for ravine caches, 2 foot magnetic for magnetic caches, toolbox for screw or nut and bolt caches and the spare tire out of my car to get to the jack it had better be an awesome cache or someone is going to hear about it in my log.

 

How about a car that is missing a tire and the axle is resting on the cache. That way no one should have to go under it to get it out.

[+thedeadpirate]

How about a car that is missing a tire and the axle is resting on the cache. That way no one should have to go under it to get it out.

And that could be done relatively safely with cribbing under the axle to prevent the car from falling should the jack slip.

 

I just see this ending badly though because no matter how foolproof you make it, there will be a fool that exceeds all expectations hunt the cache.

[+ras_oscar]

My bad. I thought you wanted to have a cache where you have to car jack someone to get it.

 

If I'm going to take the 80' ladder for the tree caches and the stroller for the long hike caches and the beach bag for the swim to caches and my walking sticks, case of mosquito repellent, the box of DVD's for Wolf's Song, Rope for ravine caches, 2 foot magnetic for magnetic caches, toolbox for screw or nut and bolt caches and the spare tire out of my car to get to the jack it had better be an awesome cache or someone is going to hear about it in my log.

 

How about a car that is missing a tire and the axle is resting on the cache. That way no one should have to go under it to get it out.

 

Actually, I've been to several caches that had old abandoned cars nearby. One location had 2 groups of c1955 cars totaling 12!!! Im sure one of those could be pressed inbto service if the OP doesn't want to volunteer their new Lamborgini.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

Why is everyone focusing on jacking something UP?

Perhaps something could be jacked SIDEWAYS?

 

Or use the jack in reverse?

The jack holds the cache up into a hollow on the underside of something. Lower the jack to get the cache, then raise it back up into its hiding place.

Item is secure from falling on geocacher as it is not using the jack for support.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

stupid double post.

 

Edited July 28, 2010 by bramasoleiowa

[+42at42]

I don't want to get car jacked just to get a smiley.

 

[+vw_k]

Anyone with a car jack would also have a wheel wrench in their car. How about a cache that is bolted shut with a nut size that is a common wheel wrench size.

 

Of course different car manufacturers have different sized wheel nuts, that could add to the fun ;-)

[+mountainman38]

...I just see this ending badly though because no matter how foolproof you make it, there will be a fool that exceeds all expectations hunt the cache.

Which is exactly who no one should ever have to actually visit a cache in order to get credit for it. The CO should be ready to jump up at a moments notice and run out to sign the log (or jack up a boulder and sign a log, as in this case) whenever someone wants another smiley.

 

Very simple.

[+thedeadpirate]

...I just see this ending badly though because no matter how foolproof you make it, there will be a fool that exceeds all expectations hunt the cache.

Which is exactly who no one should ever have to actually visit a cache in order to get credit for it. The CO should be ready to jump up at a moments notice and run out to sign the log (or jack up a boulder and sign a log, as in this case) whenever someone wants another smiley.

 

Very simple.

 

I'm not getting your point. Actually, I think I am, but I just don't get the reaction from my post.

 

I've always agreed that not everyone needs to go after every cache.

 

For instance, you're not going to see me claiming a find on a cache that requires me to climb the side of a cliff.

 

However, the use of a jack can seem deceptively easy. And for those that take the time to learn to do it right, it is easy.

 

However, there are lots of instances where cars have rolled off jacks due to the wheels not being chocked, using the jack on loose soil, etc.

 

I'm fairly certain one can build a cache that incorporates the use of a jack safely. But I urge the OP to really think this out before implementing. He really should consider all the ways this could go wrong and make some attempt to render it as safe as possible BECAUSE of how simply it appears to the average person.

[+mountainman38]

...I just see this ending badly though because no matter how foolproof you make it, there will be a fool that exceeds all expectations hunt the cache.

Which is exactly who no one should ever have to actually visit a cache in order to get credit for it. The CO should be ready to jump up at a moments notice and run out to sign the log (or jack up a boulder and sign a log, as in this case) whenever someone wants another smiley.

 

Very simple.

 

I'm not getting your point. Actually, I think I am, but I just don't get the reaction from my post.

 

I've always agreed that not everyone needs to go after every cache.

 

For instance, you're not going to see me claiming a find on a cache that requires me to climb the side of a cliff.

 

However, the use of a jack can seem deceptively easy. And for those that take the time to learn to do it right, it is easy.

 

However, there are lots of instances where cars have rolled off jacks due to the wheels not being chocked, using the jack on loose soil, etc.

 

I'm fairly certain one can build a cache that incorporates the use of a jack safely. But I urge the OP to really think this out before implementing. He really should consider all the ways this could go wrong and make some attempt to render it as safe as possible BECAUSE of how simply it appears to the average person.

I agree totally. I was making an attempt at humor in my previous post -- not questioning what you'd said.

[+thedeadpirate]

...I just see this ending badly though because no matter how foolproof you make it, there will be a fool that exceeds all expectations hunt the cache.

Which is exactly who no one should ever have to actually visit a cache in order to get credit for it. The CO should be ready to jump up at a moments notice and run out to sign the log (or jack up a boulder and sign a log, as in this case) whenever someone wants another smiley.

 

Very simple.

 

I'm not getting your point. Actually, I think I am, but I just don't get the reaction from my post.

 

I've always agreed that not everyone needs to go after every cache.

 

For instance, you're not going to see me claiming a find on a cache that requires me to climb the side of a cliff.

 

However, the use of a jack can seem deceptively easy. And for those that take the time to learn to do it right, it is easy.

 

However, there are lots of instances where cars have rolled off jacks due to the wheels not being chocked, using the jack on loose soil, etc.

 

I'm fairly certain one can build a cache that incorporates the use of a jack safely. But I urge the OP to really think this out before implementing. He really should consider all the ways this could go wrong and make some attempt to render it as safe as possible BECAUSE of how simply it appears to the average person.

I agree totally. I was making an attempt at humor in my previous post -- not questioning what you'd said.

I'm gonna make a petition that everyone begin using disclaimers starting now.

 

*** I'm just kidding. Thanks for the clarification.

Edited July 28, 2010 by GeoBain

[+mountainman38]

.....I'm gonna make a petition that everyone begin using disclaimers starting now.

 

*** I'm just kidding. Thanks for the clarification.

You betcha. See, the most hilarious things just come to me all the time, and I have to share them. The problem is, the hilarity is sometimes lost on my audience. Like my kids.... my wife.... my mom thinks I'm a hoot, though. Thanks, Mom!

 

***The foregoing was totally serious. Mostly.

[+thedeadpirate]

The problem is, the hilarity is sometimes lost on my audience.

Welcome to my world. Most of what I post just cracks me up, but a much smaller percentage of it actually translates well when I post it.

[+Brantflakes]

I understand wholly that it would be dangerous for the cache to involve lifting some heavy object to get a cache from under it. In no way would a car be involved; I don't think I could even get one into the middle of the woods.

 

Having a car jack on you wouldn't be an issue either; most people do drive cars to caches, and if I wrote on the cache page that the use of a car jack was important, then people would know to get it out of the car.

 

Some good ideas so far;

 

-moving something sideways, to reveal a cavity

-Using a placed jack in reverse to reveal the cache

-Bolting down the cache so that it can be undone by the same wrench that undoes the lugnuts on your car

 

Any others?

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Most people have car jacks readily available (or at least with some planning ahead) when they go caching. How could I make a cache that isn't dangerous but forces the cacher to use a car jack to retrieve it?

I was thinking of hiding one that was under a large slab of rock/concrete that would need to be lifted to get the Cache out. There would be enough room to see it, but not to pull it out. I'd have to find just the right place that one side could repeatedly be lifted without causing movement or damage.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

FWIW,

 

Many folks do not use a jack properly and if it slips while someone is under the car ... well, i think you get the picture.

 

yep, my dad's cousin was killed that way. He was just married a few weeks when it happens. My dad told me this story and I always be extremely careful when I am jacking something. Believe it or not, I thought of this story when I first read the OP. All in all, I am against anything that require you to jack up something heavy. All it take is one bad apple to spoil it all for us guys that know what we are doing.

Well to start with, you're not supposed to get under a car that is jacked up, you're supposed to place it on jack stands or blocks.