Stickers and stamp signatures.

[+brslk]

I have seen people complain about people slapping a sticker signature or stamping one all over a log.

My question is, Geocaching.com and Groundspeak says that we must sign the log to claim a find. Pretty basic.

 

In the legal sense... a sticker is NOT considered a signature.

In the legal sense ... a STAMP is not either unless it has been authorized by a notary.

 

So in any sense.. neither should be considered acceptable.

 

The best case is that a team or family has taken the time to have a stamp made or stickers and use them.

 

The worst case is that people use them to get numbers and dont even visit the chaches these stickers or stamps are placed on.

 

I have no dog in this fight but just find it odd that the guidelines say that you have to sign the log to claim a find but will accept a sticker or stamp as a signature...

Edited July 26, 2010 by brslk

[+SwineFlew]

With power trails caches on the side, I feel they are ok as long its on regular size logbook. I find them really annoying in macro or smaller. Why take up three lines for one person? As a CO, I wouldnt be too please to find out that I have to drive out of the way to replace the log sheet because a bunch of people over use the log sheet.

 

Another thing I dont like about stickers is sometime they stick the logsheet together and they get ripped up because people are trying to unfold it.

[+thedeadpirate]

By the same token, someone could also just have their buddy sign their name to a cache.

 

I don't see allowing stickers or stamps as being in conflict with the signing guideline.

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

Fer cry'n out loud. We ain't signing legal documents here.

[+narcissa]

Why did you start this post AFTER a reviewer stated that stamps and stickers are permitted?

[+dfx]

i know what my definition of a signature in the context of geocaching is.

 

i seriously doubt that it's gonna make any difference whatsoever, so i'm not even gonna bother saying.

 

in the same way, i seriously doubt that there's gonna be any "official" statement from GS in that matter.

[+humboldt flier]

Well.

 

I have mixed feelings about this and will just throw my thoughts out there.

 

I think that stamps and stickers are acceptable. I would like to see stickers and stamps placed in appropriate order on log sheets in a neat manner. ( the Virgo in me )

 

With that having been said:

 

Stickers and stamps on log sheets on power trails it seems that all bets are off ... find an empty spot stamp, sticker and split.

 

When I first encountered that random messiness on the TOTG I was genuinely ticked off, however, when one realizes that a power trail is an entirely different beast such behaviors are more easily dealt with.

 

On another note not all sticker adhesives are created equally and some stickers come off over time. Sooooooo, if your sticker is missing your proof of visit is missing.

 

On yet another note: If your " sticker " had no adhesive at all it has become a bit of confetti to blow away in the wind the next time the cache log is opened.

[+brslk]

Why did you start this post AFTER a reviewer stated that stamps and stickers are permitted?

 

Why are you attacking me? It goes against my personal caching ethics. This is what happens in a free world.

 

I know you like to follow me and attack everything I say but please just walk away if you have nothing to add.

 

What would happen if they used a sticker made of plastic? It would degrade as fast as a rose in liquid nitrogen!

Edited July 26, 2010 by brslk

[+dfx]

On another note not all sticker adhesives are created equally and some stickers come off over time. Sooooooo, if your sticker is missing your proof of visit is missing.

and the same applies to most "proper" signatures written with most types of common ink. if the log gets wet, the signature disappears.

[+humboldt flier]

On another note not all sticker adhesives are created equally and some stickers come off over time. Sooooooo, if your sticker is missing your proof of visit is missing.

and the same applies to most "proper" signatures written with most types of common ink. if the log gets wet, the signature disappears.

Sooooooo very true and an issue we encounter here in the wet northwest.

[+dfx]

On another note not all sticker adhesives are created equally and some stickers come off over time. Sooooooo, if your sticker is missing your proof of visit is missing.

and the same applies to most "proper" signatures written with most types of common ink. if the log gets wet, the signature disappears.

Sooooooo very true and an issue we encounter here in the wet northwest.

so what does that mean then? does it mean that those online logs are then invalid and should be deleted? or does it mean that stickers are valid signatures even if they come off and get blown away?

[+geodarts]

The log is not a legal document so I am not sure I understand that comparison. As a practical matter I have signed my name with the green markings from a leaf. And even under the best conditions my legal signature is a scrawl that may or may not be readable. I have used my last name as my online id, signed caches with my first name and now that I have a new online id it can get even more confusing. So perhaps a sticker would help.

 

I have seen repetitive cachers slap stickers on log sheets like they would do on a repetitive caching trail, so I can understand why some people find it annoying. But I probably have other things to worry about.

[+humboldt flier]

I agree, not worth worrying about. After all it is just a game.

 

I don't think it should be taken seriously at all.

 

But the Virgo in me still goes a tad bit nuts with some of the randomness out there. ( glad I don't have OCD )

 

OMG can you imagine a Virgo with OCD > Sheeeeesh

Edited July 26, 2010 by humboldt flier

[+brslk]

The log is not a legal document so I am not sure I understand that comparison. As a practical matter I have signed my name with the green markings from a leaf. And even under the best conditions my legal signature is a scrawl that may or may not be readable. I have used my last name as my online id, signed caches with my first name and now that I have a new online id it can get even more confusing. So perhaps a sticker would help.

 

I have seen repetitive cachers slap stickers on log sheets like they would do on a repetitive caching trail, so I can understand why some people find it annoying. But I probably have other things to worry about.

 

I understand people that have no issue with it. I was just bored and was looking for others opinions. I find it odd that most of the people that respond really have no issue with it but take the time to reply and say they have better things to worry about.

 

No one has to respond to every thread they read.

[+Chrysalides]

The worst case is that people use them to get numbers and dont even visit the chaches these stickers or stamps are placed on.

Can you elaborate? I'd make some joke about how to stamp a logsheet without visiting the cache, but this thread is antagonistic enough as it is and I don't want to be misunderstood and start a flame war. Let me clarify by saying I really don't know what scenario you're referring to.

 

I do have a stamp. I use it for fun occasionally. It's definitely not to save time, since I use it in addition to signing and dating the log.

[+brslk]

I agree, not worth worrying about it is after all a game.

 

I don't think it should be taken seriously at all.

 

But it isn't a game, games have winners and losers. It is a hobby. People that play games keep score. Nor is it a sport. Most sports also keep stats.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

What we're looking for here is proof that someone visited the cache. If they don't have a pen and spit on a twig, roll it in the dirt and leave a mark with mud then they have proven that they found the cache.

 

If they say "I couldn't sign the log so I left a green rock in the cache" and the owner in fact finds a green rock in the cache then they've proven that they found the cache.

 

Getting hung up on a handwritten signature is avoiding the proof issue to focus an an irrelevant detail.

[+Chrysalides]

No one has to respond to every thread they read.

Couldn't agree more.

[+dfx]

But it isn't a game, games have winners and losers.

solitaire doesn't.

People that play games keep score. Nor is it a sport. Most sports also keep stats.

geocaching.com keeps score. or you do it yourself (as letterboxers do). "my finds" gets you your stats.

Edited July 26, 2010 by dfx

[+narcissa]

Why did you start this post AFTER a reviewer stated that stamps and stickers are permitted?

 

Why are you attacking me? It goes against my personal caching ethics. This is what happens in a free world.

 

I know you like to follow me and attack everything I say but please just walk away if you have nothing to add.

 

What would happen if they used a sticker made of plastic? It would degrade as fast as a rose in liquid nitrogen!

 

 

But seriously, Keystone, who is a cache reviewer, already stated in the other thread that an owner denying stamp and sticker logs is out of line. So what is the purpose of this post?

[+geodarts]

The log is not a legal document so I am not sure I understand that comparison. As a practical matter I have signed my name with the green markings from a leaf. And even under the best conditions my legal signature is a scrawl that may or may not be readable. I have used my last name as my online id, signed caches with my first name and now that I have a new online id it can get even more confusing. So perhaps a sticker would help.

 

I have seen repetitive cachers slap stickers on log sheets like they would do on a repetitive caching trail, so I can understand why some people find it annoying. But I probably have other things to worry about.

 

I understand people that have no issue with it. I was just bored and was looking for others opinions. I find it odd that most of the people that respond really have no issue with it but take the time to reply and say they have better things to worry about.

 

No one has to respond to every thread they read.

 

Or to every post. But pethsps we are both a little bored tonight. Actually, I said I have other things to worry about. I don't know whether they are better. Today I was worried about whether Phil would prevail over Barney. Tomorrow I will worry about deadlines at work. But here, I indicated that stickers can be annoying but when I see them I just usually sign the log and move on.

Edited July 26, 2010 by mulvaney

[+brslk]

Such is life.

[+thedeadpirate]

But it isn't a game, games have winners and losers. It is a hobby. People that play games keep score. Nor is it a sport. Most sports also keep stats.

 

I'm not sure what to call this activity that we love so much. But calling it a game is appropriate. Not all games keep score or have winners. Some are designed strictly to pass time. (hot lava and leapfrog come to mind)

[+narcissa]

At what point does pedantry completely eliminate all traces of fun in geocaching? By all appearances, it would seem the game can handle quite a bit. In keeping with the legal standard, I'm going to start demanding that all logs in my caches be written in blue or black ink.

[+thedeadpirate]

In keeping with the legal standard, I'm going to start demanding that all logs in my caches be written in blue or black ink.

Then we're right back at the ALR guideline.

 

 

*** I know you were kidding.

[+brslk]

At what point does pedantry completely eliminate all traces of fun in geocaching? By all appearances, it would seem the game can handle quite a bit. In keeping with the legal standard, I'm going to start demanding that all logs in my caches be written in blue or black ink.

 

Just make sure the pens that hold the ink are not made of plastic. It degrades in sunlight like a rose in liquid nitrogen.

[+humboldt flier]

At what point does pedantry completely eliminate all traces of fun in geocaching? By all appearances, it would seem the game can handle quite a bit. In keeping with the legal standard, I'm going to start demanding that all logs in my caches be written in blue or black ink.

 

Naaaahhhhhhhhh, Pink or lilac well, maybe turquoise

[+narcissa]

 

Just make sure the pens that hold the ink are not made of plastic. It degrades in sunlight like a rose in liquid nitrogen.

 

Roses don't degrade in liquid nitrogen. They freeze (because it's very, very cold) and become brittle (therefore easily shattered). Didn't they show you this in high school? ... er, never mind.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Geocaching.com and Groundspeak says that we must sign the log to claim a find. Pretty basic.

 

No, it doesn't say that anywhere. Some people read something else and translate it in their mind to mean that, but it doesn't say that anywhere.

[+bittsen]

When I get a paycheck and there's a stamp for a signature, the bank takes it.

 

If it's good enough for my paycheck, it's good enough for a geocaching logsheet.

[+narcissa]

No, it doesn't say that anywhere. Some people read something else and translate it in their mind to mean that, but it doesn't say that anywhere.

 

This is very true. Groundspeak says very little about what cachers should or must do with regard to finds, logs, trades, or anything else.

 

Many geocachers don't read the fine print and aren't able to distinguish between the norms and expectations of their geocaching community, and what Groundspeak actually says about the game.

 

People also fail to realize that Groundspeak owns the website Geocaching.com, not geocaching, the game.

[+brslk]

 

Just make sure the pens that hold the ink are not made of plastic. It degrades in sunlight like a rose in liquid nitrogen.

 

Roses don't degrade in liquid nitrogen. They freeze (because it's very, very cold) and become brittle (therefore easily shattered). Didn't they show you this in high school? ... er, never mind.

 

I never lernt that in hi skool.

 

If you wish to talk about plastics I will be most very welcoming if you would start an off topic thread.

[+SwineFlew]

When I get a paycheck and there's a stamp for a signature, the bank takes it.

 

If it's good enough for my paycheck, it's good enough for a geocaching logsheet.

 

Even my college diploma is stamped and got stickers on it too. If my boss believe it, its good enough for geocaching logs.

Edited July 26, 2010 by SwineFlew

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

That is it! I am not going to take any chance with the validity of signatures on the logs of my caches. From here on out you will have to bring a notary public with you to the cache to verify your signature if you want to log one of my caches.

[+Bear and Ragged]

As Geocaching has some link with Letterboxing -where they use stamps to identify visits/visitors- Geocaching as an off-shoot should also accept stamps. Stickers are a modern version of stamps...

 

I sign as:

Bear and Ragged

Bear + Ragged

Bear & Ragged

 

0r on micro/nano caches:

B&R

B+R

 

Are we all to sign -write- exactly as we are registered on the Groundspeak site?

 

Also consider the cachers that do a big hike to a cache and find they have left their pen in the car/lost their pen on the way in/have a pen but it's not working -and they 'sign' the log with a muddy or leafy green thumbprint/scratch into the paper in the 'top left corner of the log'. Acceptable?

 

Any indication of your visit is fine.

Providing it's not a large sticker on a micro/nano cache log, makes it a heck of a job to get the log back in the container!

[+Snoogans]

As a practical matter I have signed my name with the green markings from a leaf.

 

I signed an FTF log in blood. Of course the cache was hidden IN a very thorny bush and I was in such a hurry that I had forgotten even my emergency pencil.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Snoogans

[+Ike 13]

:sarcasm: I had no idea we were supposed to be signing our full legal names every time. Guess I have 0 finds. :sarcasm:

 

I have no problem with it. The people who cheat and have others put their name down will continue to do so stickers or not. If you're concerned with space, stickers for a group can save space. Most CO's would rather have each individual name rather than some made up temporary team name. The group I've done a power run with uses stickers, but we can fit 5 full caching names on a small sticker that only takes up maybe 2-3 log lines.

[+Snoogans]

I have seen people complain about people slapping a sticker signature or stamping one all over a log.

My question is, Geocaching.com and Groundspeak says that we must sign the log to claim a find. Pretty basic.

 

In the legal sense... a sticker is NOT considered a signature.

In the legal sense ... a STAMP is not either unless it has been authorized by a notary.

 

So in any sense.. neither should be considered acceptable.

 

The best case is that a team or family has taken the time to have a stamp made or stickers and use them.

 

The worst case is that people use them to get numbers and dont even visit the chaches these stickers or stamps are placed on.

 

I have no dog in this fight but just find it odd that the guidelines say that you have to sign the log to claim a find but will accept a sticker or stamp as a signature...

 

**Snicker**Snicker**

 

This thread is a hoot. Best laugh I've had in 3 days. Thanks.

 

The worst case is that people use them to get numbers and dont even visit the chaches these stickers or stamps are placed on.

 

Do the stickers beam in or are you saying that it's common practice for some cachers to go around claiming finds for their friends?

 

Now, I have no doubt that somewhere in the geocaching continuum the latter has happened, but it begs the question as to what the motivation was and on the heels of that, why should I tax a brain cell to care?

 

I sereiously doubt that it's widespread.

[+The Chaos Crew]

I never realised that log-book stamps are frowned upon by some – oops – I had one made up for our team very early on in our geocaching career – as I had seen a couple of stamp impressions in other logbooks, and thought they looked great.

 

We don’t use it in teeny tiny logs, as it is about an inch square, but we do always use it where there is ample space. Not in lieu of handwriting – we always write at the very least the date and our first names, usually more than that – what we think of the location, details of any trades etc etc.

 

Is that considered somehow inappropriate / annoying?

 

As for a “proper” signature – I’ve never signed my full name in a cache signature-style (what I would use to sign a cheque) – and I’m pretty sure I’ve not seen anyone else do that either, at least it’s certainly not common.

[+Sioneva]

I never realised that log-book stamps are frowned upon by some – oops – I had one made up for our team very early on in our geocaching career – as I had seen a couple of stamp impressions in other logbooks, and thought they looked great.

 

We don’t use it in teeny tiny logs, as it is about an inch square, but we do always use it where there is ample space. Not in lieu of handwriting – we always write at the very least the date and our first names, usually more than that – what we think of the location, details of any trades etc etc.

 

Is that considered somehow inappropriate / annoying?

 

As for a “proper” signature – I’ve never signed my full name in a cache signature-style (what I would use to sign a cheque) – and I’m pretty sure I’ve not seen anyone else do that either, at least it’s certainly not common.

 

Keep using your stamp! There's nothing wrong with that.

 

I used a yellow flower to sign a log yesterday, it was spur of the moment and I didn't have a pen. I'm positive that if you drink enough, you can squint and see where it says Sioneva - otherwise it looks like a yellow smudge, but it's proof I was there. And that's all that counts.

[+Stargazer22]

Nothing wrong with using a stamp or sticker. No difference between slapping down your mark with a pen or with a sticker. Either way, you were at the cache and left your mark.

 

What do I have to do, take 2 witnesses and a notary public with me to prove I signed the log?

[knowschad]

No one has to respond to every thread they read.

Couldn't agree more.

Well, there's my problem!

 

[+Castle Mischief]

Why did you start this post AFTER a reviewer stated that stamps and stickers are permitted?

 

Why are you attacking me? It goes against my personal caching ethics. This is what happens in a free world.

 

I know you like to follow me and attack everything I say but please just walk away if you have nothing to add.

 

What would happen if they used a sticker made of plastic? It would degrade as fast as a rose in liquid nitrogen!

 

 

But seriously, Keystone, who is a cache reviewer, already stated in the other thread that an owner denying stamp and sticker logs is out of line. So what is the purpose of this post?

 

[knowschad]

That is it! I am not going to take any chance with the validity of signatures on the logs of my caches. From here on out you will have to bring a notary public with you to the cache to verify your signature if you want to log one of my caches.

Nuts to that... I'm just going to become a Notary Public.

 

(signed)

Knowschad

 

[+Team Cotati]

I have seen people complain about people slapping a sticker signature or stamping one all over a log.

My question is, Geocaching.com and Groundspeak says that we must sign the log to claim a find. Pretty basic.

 

In the legal sense... a sticker is NOT considered a signature.

In the legal sense ... a STAMP is not either unless it has been authorized by a notary.

 

So in any sense.. neither should be considered acceptable.

 

The best case is that a team or family has taken the time to have a stamp made or stickers and use them.

 

The worst case is that people use them to get numbers and dont even visit the chaches these stickers or stamps are placed on.

 

I have no dog in this fight but just find it odd that the guidelines say that you have to sign the log to claim a find but will accept a sticker or stamp as a signature...

 

Slow 'news' day is it?

[Andronicus]

...

 

I used a yellow flower to sign a log yesterday, it was spur of the moment and I didn't have a pen. I'm positive that if you drink enough, you can squint and see where it says Sioneva - otherwise it looks like a yellow smudge, but it's proof I was there. And that's all that counts.

You killed a poor defensless little yellow flower? I am horrified! I thought you were supposed take only pictures...

 

***This is a joke. Unless the lower is on the endangered list, then it is not a joke...

[Andronicus]

By the same token, someone could also just have their buddy sign their name to a cache.

 

I don't see allowing stickers or stamps as being in conflict with the signing guideline.

I think this is the best point so far. I often do all the righting in the log book with I find a cache. The people that I cache with don't realy care, so would just not sign the log (or online), so I put all the names in the book. That doesn't make it any less 'official' in my opinion.

[+Castle Mischief]

I don't care if you use a sticker. I don't like them because they fall out of log books when the sticky fails like the inserts in a magazine, but I don't think it's the End of Geocaching as We Know It.

 

This is so a non-issue.

[+Team Cotati]

...

 

I used a yellow flower to sign a log yesterday, it was spur of the moment and I didn't have a pen. I'm positive that if you drink enough, you can squint and see where it says Sioneva - otherwise it looks like a yellow smudge, but it's proof I was there. And that's all that counts.

You killed a poor defensless little yellow flower? I am horrified! I thought you were supposed take only pictures...

 

***This is a joke. Unless the lower is on the endangered list, then it is not a joke...

 

I think that it is but you'll need to check the upper portion of the list.

[+Team Schmoopie]

What is a good source for stamps or stickers?

 

Never really considered before but since the original poster brought up the idea, it sounds good to me.