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GCF 2010 Private collection coin sales not allowed


MHz

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A Geocoinfest to me, means a place to trade/adopt/sell geocoins between cachers and visit/buy from vendors who are selling the latest and greatest geocoins and geocaching swag.

 

However, since I'm interested is selling/adopting out a portion of my personal geocoin collection, I've been told by the Geocoinfest 2010 committee that I can't sell geocoins at the event and to do so I must buy a vendor table for likely around $200.

 

I know I'm not the only cacher looking to sell/adopt/trade geocoins from our own private collections at this event and I know of many already who have far far fewer coins than me who have been told the same thing by the GCF committee and I'm sure there are more out there.

 

A vendor can write off the cost of buying a vendor table as well as likely cover the costs of the table from profits made from sales at the event. A private collector can't write off the expense because, we don't have a business to do so. Also, at least in my case, I'd be selling at either the break even or below cost so there is no profit there. If I wanted to make a profit, I'd put the collection up on e-bay! I have a lot of older geocoins that I really like but are gathering dust and would likely mean more to someone else than to me.

 

Why shouldn't I be able to sell them at the trading portion of Gecoinfest 2010? That may mean I trade a geocoin for another geocoin, a club patch, a pin, an ammo can or $10. How is that not a trade?

 

Anyone else out there in the same boat as me?

 

It's really kind of soured my enthusiasm to go to my very first Mega-event. I may have to skip it and just go geocaching with my friends instead. :lol:

Edited by MHz
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That may mean I trade a geocoin for another geocoin, a club patch, a pin, an ammo can or $10. How is that not a trade?

 

You are correct with everything up there EXCEPT the $10.

 

By definition, a trade usually does not involve money. A trade is an exchange of goods for goods, NOT currency.

 

Also, I think we non-vendors, of which I am one, need to appreciate things from the vendors' point of view. Why should we be permitted to sell geocoins minted by others, in some cases the very vendors in question, and not be held to the same rules? If I were a vendor, I might be more than a little irked that I paid a fee to sell my coins at a mega-event, and was being out-sold by an attendee who didn't have to pay the vendor fee. My understanding from the forums is that past geocoinfests have had this very problem, and it is to GCF2010's credit that they are ensuring the same rules apply to everyone.

 

Having never attended a mega-event of any kind, I'm looking forward to my first because of the variety of experiences I might gain: meeting other geocachers, discussions about hiding/finding techniques, ideas for new geocoins, and just an overall good time with geocaching that's NOT all by myself. There's no doubt in my mind you'll have a good time if you attend and don't sell a single coin. l there's always these forums to arrange sales, and if you attend the event, you'll have faces to put to the names you see in here. Good luck making your choice.

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I speak from a vendors point of view. I am speaking on my behalf and not all vendors.

 

You indicate you are not selling for a profit but may collectors and others that would like to make a buck or two would sell for a profit. There is no way for the people running GCF to determine if you are selling for a profit or not. Therefore the easiest way for them to limit who can sell would be to let only those who have paid a fee to support the event sell at the event.

 

Anyone can show up to the event, it is free. The vendors pay a fee to be at the event and that is what helps fund the event. I myself have donated trackable tags, which are being sold to help fund the event. I took little to no profit on the event coins, and paid a vendor fee. If anyone can show up to sell why couldn't I just show up and sell? Because I have a website.

 

Again this is my 2cent. I am not speaking for all vendors.

 

 

p.s. If you are looking to just unload some coins at or below cost I would suggest posting in these forums. I am sure you will have takers.

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In a way you're asking to go to someone else's shop and sell stuff that they sell at the shop too. That's pretty selfish of you. GCF2010 has gone through a lot of effort to put a huge event together and have incurred large expenses.... and you want to ride their coat tails at your convenience for a commercial purpose, that is you want to sell stuff, not trade which the event is geared towards, but sell. Even at a flea market you have to pay a fee to use the event for your purposes.

 

On the other hand this is an event where hundreds of cachers and geocoin aficionados will congregate, chat, tell whopping tales and fish stories. There is nothing to keep you from doing a little horse trading that involves going outside and exchanging packets of coins for packets of money.... only your own conscience and integrity.

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The arguments against to me seem to be an argument against the setup of the event.

 

In my opinion the vendors pay to have a large featured location at the event. As it stands now from what I understand, they have an exclusive location and time period to capture peoples attention. I don't see an issue with people trading their geocoins at the event in the ways they have always done and continue to do through all other venues, why constrain this. If the event funding depends on this, perhaps the event plan is flawed. I would have no trouble with vendors appearing before or during the trading session or during the entire event even, they have paid for the rights, but I don't see how creating an exclusive right for the vendors to sell is fair.

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In a way you're asking to go to someone else's shop and sell stuff that they sell at the shop too. That's pretty selfish of you. GCF2010 has gone through a lot of effort to put a huge event together and have incurred large expenses.... and you want to ride their coat tails at your convenience for a commercial purpose, that is you want to sell stuff, not trade which the event is geared towards, but sell. Even at a flea market you have to pay a fee to use the event for your purposes.

 

As you describe it, why is an event that is designed around celebrating geocoins setup as a shop for vendors? I want to go and participate in the event by selling some coins, why can't I without a large outlay? Who says the event is geared around trading? To me it's simply as the name states, a festival of geocoins and that encompasses all aspects of the coins: collecting, selling, buying, trading, minting, designing, viewing, etc.

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The arguments against to me seem to be an argument against the setup of the event.

 

In my opinion the vendors pay to have a large featured location at the event. As it stands now from what I understand, they have an exclusive location and time period to capture peoples attention. I don't see an issue with people trading their geocoins at the event in the ways they have always done and continue to do through all other venues, why constrain this. If the event funding depends on this, perhaps the event plan is flawed. I would have no trouble with vendors appearing before or during the trading session or during the entire event even, they have paid for the rights, but I don't see how creating an exclusive right for the vendors to sell is fair.

If I just show up to the event and sell my coins at some random table. That would be ok in your eyes? If all the vendors did that, how do you think the event would happen?

 

I can tell you that GeoWoodstock this year I donated and paid over $5000 to the event. Without sponsors/vendors these event could not happen. Without the exclusive rights to sell then the vendors do not come to these events. At least I would not.

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I'm not arguing the vendor view at all! In fact I can see it and understand it.

 

I'm in fact looking at this and comparing it to my other hobby of amatuer radio. In the ham world, we have flea markets. Here, a room/hall is rented and the cost is covered by table sales as well. We get both vendor and personal hams buying tables to sell their goods, be it old or new goods. But it's not $200 no matter who buys the table. In fact it's usually far less and also you can purchase half a table. Vendors can donate more above the table cost if they want to and write it off, but like cachers, hams cannot. Tables are more like $20 max. Some flea markets also charge a small $1-$2 entrance fee. That is no where near $200.

 

Vendors can also help by donating prizes and $$$ which they can also write off. I helped by paying for a registration and until now, I may have even considered helping with a small donation as I do at most events I attemd where there was a cost incurred.

 

I've been here in the professional world, and I've also gone to trade shows as a vendor. But I've always considered geocaching as more informal than a trade show like my ham hobby and the flea market idea.

 

I'm in no way saying that I would not pay for a table. I'm really objecting to the price. I could go sit in the parking lot and sell them for no table cost but I really don't want to resort to that type of thing. I'd rather leave the coins at home and go caching.

Edited by MHz
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Oh goodie, a thread I can finally sink my teeth into :P I'll be back later today when I have more time to type.

 

tsun

 

Edit to add: I changed my mind, I was going to post some big ole' doosie but I promised myself to stay out of the drama hence my lack of postings in the forums these days :D I got designs to work on anyhow :lol:

Edited by tsunrisebey
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In a way you're asking to go to someone else's shop and sell stuff that they sell at the shop too. That's pretty selfish of you. GCF2010 has gone through a lot of effort to put a huge event together and have incurred large expenses.... and you want to ride their coat tails at your convenience for a commercial purpose, that is you want to sell stuff, not trade which the event is geared towards, but sell. Even at a flea market you have to pay a fee to use the event for your purposes.

 

As you describe it, why is an event that is designed around celebrating geocoins setup as a shop for vendors? I want to go and participate in the event by selling some coins, why can't I without a large outlay? Who says the event is geared around trading? To me it's simply as the name states, a festival of geocoins and that encompasses all aspects of the coins: collecting, selling, buying, trading, minting, designing, viewing, etc.

 

NOt able to go the GCF this year, but was fortunate to be able to go a few years ago.

 

Simple question...are you, as an excited participant, willing to pay the expenses of renting the room, chairs, ect. It aint free folks, so revenue has to come from somewhere...if you don't want to give vendors exclusive rights to sell coins, would you be willing to instead pay an admission fee to attend or hold the festival in the parking lot of a local mega mart?

 

ILYK
Edited by drneal
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NOt able to go the GCF this year, but was fortunate to be able to go a few years ago.

 

Simple question...are you, as an excited participant, willing to pay the expenses of renting the room, chairs, ect. It aint free folks, so revenue has to come from somewhere...if you don't want to give vendors exclusive rights to sell coins, would you be willing to instead pay an admission fee to attend or hold the festival in the parking lot of a local mega mart?

Yes. I'm willing to contribute a registration fee to attend an event thats fun for me or have the event structured to reduce the costs to hold it.

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NOt able to go the GCF this year, but was fortunate to be able to go a few years ago.

 

Simple question...are you, as an excited participant, willing to pay the expenses of renting the room, chairs, ect. It aint free folks, so revenue has to come from somewhere...if you don't want to give vendors exclusive rights to sell coins, would you be willing to instead pay an admission fee to attend or hold the festival in the parking lot of a local mega mart?

Yes. I'm willing to contribute a registration fee to attend an event thats fun for me or have the event structured to reduce the costs to hold it.

Groundspeak will not let you charge for an event, if my memory serves me correctly.

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If I just show up to the event and sell my coins at some random table. That would be ok in your eyes? If all the vendors did that, how do you think the event would happen?

Works fine for me.

If all the vendors did this how do you think the event would get funded?

 

There are other sources of funding.

Vendors can still be attracted to the event.

It's not an all or nothing as far as I know.

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If I just show up to the event and sell my coins at some random table. That would be ok in your eyes? If all the vendors did that, how do you think the event would happen?

Works fine for me.

If all the vendors did this how do you think the event would get funded?

 

There are other sources of funding.

Vendors can still be attracted to the event.

It's not an all or nothing as far as I know.

Well what other ideas do you have that are not already being used. I am sure the people running the event would like to know. There are around 10 vendors at the event so you need to make up at a min $2000 and I would say closer to $4000 if vendors could just show up and sell?

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I'm not arguing the vendor view at all! In fact I can see it and understand it.

 

I'm in fact looking at this and comparing it to my other hobby of amatuer radio. In the ham world, we have flea markets. Here, a room/hall is rented and the cost is covered by table sales as well. We get both vendor and personal hams buying tables to sell their goods, be it old or new goods. But it's not $200 no matter who buys the table. In fact it's usually far less and also you can purchase half a table. Vendors can donate more above the table cost if they want to and write it off, but like cachers, hams cannot. Tables are more like $20 max. Some flea markets also charge a small $1-$2 entrance fee. That is no where near $200.

 

Vendors can also help by donating prizes and $$$ which they can also write off. I helped by paying for a registration and until now, I may have even considered helping with a small donation as I do at most events I attemd where there was a cost incurred.

 

I've been here in the professional world, and I've also gone to trade shows as a vendor. But I've always considered geocaching as more informal than a trade show like my ham hobby and the flea market idea.

 

I'm in no way saying that I would not pay for a table. I'm really objecting to the price. I could go sit in the parking lot and sell them for no table cost but I really don't want to resort to that type of thing. I'd rather leave the coins at home and go caching.

So not to get to far of topic, I'll respond to the OP.

 

At $20, find 10 other people you mentioned in your opening post and buy a vendor booth. There is nothing against that (as far as I know). In fact at GeoWoodstock, Pathtags paid for a location to let collectors trade, and they did not sell at the event.

 

This was not just started as a trade fair. If it was then they might sell tables to anyone who wanted to sell at the event and not provide anything else. If you have been, people get a lot for free and there is substantial work that goes into these large mega events.

 

I'll speak to local events, as a vendor. I do not walk into an event and open up shop without asking and getting permission to sell at the event. Some people say it is ok, others do not. In most cases I donate more to event where they let me vendor.

Edited by CacheAddict.com
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At $20, find 10 other people you mentioned in your opening post and buy a vendor booth. There is nothing against that (as far as I know). In fact at GeoWoodstock, Pathtags paid for a location to let collectors trade, and they did not sell at the event.

 

 

Not that I'm objecting to the idea but.... they must be really big tables to have 10 cachers standing behind it then and still have others come and enjoy looking at your coins.

 

Vendors pay to get priority spots and more room to sell the latest and greatest stuff for the whole event (or if not the whole event they should). They also pay to have a large presence at an event and in most cases I bet pay above what a table costs if you include prize donations etc.

 

Cachers are restricted (or at least they should be) to the trading portion of the event whenever that is.

 

If the GCF2010 committee would provide more information about things happening at the event than just a non-timed one liner agenda for the day, it would be greatly appreciated and helpful as well for all.

 

As for other funding ideas, there lots of local companies, geocaching related or not, that I'm sure if approched who would be happy to donate $$ for a banner space at the event or prizes with company logos on or even just a advert on the Geocoinfest website as a way to advertise to as many people as come to mega-event. Get the local gas station to sponsor an advert as being the closest geocaching fuel source to the event, local restaurants etc.

 

It's a little bit of legwork to get done, but for something like this event, it should have already been done but I see very little on the Geocoinfest page for sponsors. Only a few listed.

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Cachers are restricted (or at least they should be) to the trading portion of the event whenever that is.

Not sure what this years will look like but in years past we have had a large banquet room for the entire day. The vendor tables are usually 8ft tables around the outside of the room. The center area has large round tables for people to sit at, trade and talk. The entire day is this from 10-4 or around that. There is not restricted time.

 

There are things to do during the day but as a vendor I don't normally get the chance.

 

I am still trying to figure out why you want to sell at this specific event and not just post in the forums or sell on ebay? This is done all the time.

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Not sure what this years will look like but in years past we have had a large banquet room for the entire day. The vendor tables are usually 8ft tables around the outside of the room. The center area has large round tables for people to sit at, trade and talk. The entire day is this from 10-4 or around that. There is not restricted time.

 

There are things to do during the day but as a vendor I don't normally get the chance.

 

I am still trying to figure out why you want to sell at this specific event and not just post in the forums or sell on ebay? This is done all the time.

 

If you as a vendor want to attend to sell coins, why wouldn't other people?

 

Selling coins in person would be preferred in my mind due to being able to view and handle the coins and avoid shipping costs and delay.

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I actually bought coins from non-vendors at the last GCF. I believe people were selling coins other than vendor hours. During vendor hours people just traded. I'm not sure if that was okay or not, but it's what people were doing.

 

This is my first year buying a vendor table to sell coins. I wonder if a group of people could get together to buy a table together and have a community "flea market" table. Splitting the cost amongst you, it's not that expensive.

 

NO IDEA WHAT THE RULES ARE ON THAT, PLEASE DON'T TAKE IT AS ME SAYING IT'S OKAY.

 

Also, this is just a hobby for me. I can't write off the $200, it's coming out of pocket and hopefully getting reimbursed by coin sales, but it may not be.

 

In other news, GCF 2009 was my first mega, and I can say without a doubt, even if you can't sell your coins, it's SO WORTH GOING TO! It was a ton of fun, and there were so many cool and new things there, great people who are just as coin crazy as you are (or at least, as I am), lots of trading, lots of fun events, tons of caching, and overall a wonderful experience.

 

I'd hate to see something about not being able to sell your own coins (which you can easily do any time on these boards or on ebay) keep you from attending what will be a wonderful event. :lol:

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WOW, What a way to end a fun day of caching. We have been hard at work for 14 months with only two months to go. We are trying to make this a fun event for all. We have been soliciting everyone and every business local and national to get support for the event. If we do not get enough, it will be coming out of my pocket! As mention above this event is not inexpensive to host. I am personally on the hook for over $12,000. You think I’m not trying to get sponsors?

 

I have been to two previous Geocoinfest, 2008 in Pittsburg and 2009 in Salt Lake City. Both events have had the same rule. I have also been to many other Mega events that have the same rule. It is not an unfair rule! It is more unfair for someone to come and just think they can setup their coins for sale.

 

An event like this is very expensive to put on. The main funds to hold an event is generated from vendors and sponsors. As a host, we must protect their investment or they will quit investing in events.

 

We tried very hard to work out something for another person that wanted to sell their coins with another vendor (to share a table) but in the end we could not get anything worked out. If you and 10 of your friends want to go in on a table we would happy accept you as a vendor. We even suggested this in the correspondence to the other person.

 

The main purpose of the event is for Coiners to gather, TRADE coins and talk about them. Not for coiners to come and sell there coins. To enable that to happen, we call on vendors to sponsor the event. This event is not a flea market. Everyone is welcome to come and trade.

 

If you think you can put on an event without a rule like this, I invite you to try. Here is the link to this year topic to submit your bid for the event.

 

Randy / NOSNOW

GCF 2010 Chair

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I'm going to speak as a regular attendee.

 

I appreciate the vendors so much for everything they do. Without them, these events would not happen!

 

As a regular attendee, when I sit down at the trading table, I am there to trade, not to buy. I don't think I would appreciate being turned down for a trade because the person wanted money, and wasn't there to trade coins. That is what the trading tables are for.

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[quote name='CacheAddict.com' date='Jul 25 2010, 10:53 AM' post='4412488'

I am still trying to figure out why you want to sell at this specific event and not just post in the forums or sell on ebay? This is done all the time.

 

As ertyu mentioned, I don't want to deal with the mailing of individual coins. I use to do things that way all the time and it's huge hassle. I can imagine doing individual coins on e-bay to be an even bigger hassle even though I may make more money out of it.

 

I also don't want to sell my coins as a bulk one time deal. That would be too easy on e-bay and most would just be retailed again.

 

I also did not pick on this event. It was merely the event that got me started down the road of what am I going to do with all the geocoins I already have. I've already sold a few locally and I'm sure I'll eventually sell all that I want to.

 

I started this forum post because from what I've heard and discussed with some other cachers, I'm not the only one thinking about this issue. That and I can't resist sometime stirring a pot that needs stirring.

 

As for posting them in for forums. Without posting my coin list in these forums, I've already gotten several offers to buy coins with pick up at Geocoinfest 2010. How is that different than having them available there for people to actually look at and buy on site?

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I actually bought coins from non-vendors at the last GCF. I believe people were selling coins other than vendor hours. During vendor hours people just traded. I'm not sure if that was okay or not, but it's what people were doing.

 

This is my first year buying a vendor table to sell coins. I wonder if a group of people could get together to buy a table together and have a community "flea market" table. Splitting the cost amongst you, it's not that expensive.

 

 

Then there should be at least vendor hours posted so we know when not to sell/trade our coins for something other than another geocoin. Could the GCF committee please post vendor hours on the geocoinfest webpages?

 

Obviously selling from private collections has happened before at all gecoinfests and likely all mega-events. At some point, this will become more than just a growing pain and be properly addressed rather than just saying it doesn't happen or shouldn't happen.

 

I am up for paying $20 to share a vendor table and any who wish to share with me can post here or send me an e-mail. Perhaps this way we can actually help with the event instead of just pushing this issue into the back rooms.

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I am up for paying $20 to share a vendor table and any who wish to share with me can post here or send me an e-mail. Perhaps this way we can actually help with the event instead of just pushing this issue into the back rooms.

 

I believe there are a couple of smaller tables that are available for less $$.

Edited by Vanelle
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I am still trying to figure out why you want to sell at this specific event and not just post in the forums or sell on ebay? This is done all the time.

 

As ertyu mentioned, I don't want to deal with the mailing of individual coins. I use to do things that way all the time and it's huge hassle. I can imagine doing individual coins on e-bay to be an even bigger hassle even though I may make more money out of it.

 

I also don't want to sell my coins as a bulk one time deal. That would be too easy on e-bay and most would just be retailed again.

 

I also did not pick on this event. It was merely the event that got me started down the road of what am I going to do with all the geocoins I already have. I've already sold a few locally and I'm sure I'll eventually sell all that I want to.

 

I started this forum post because from what I've heard and discussed with some other cachers, I'm not the only one thinking about this issue. That and I can't resist sometime stirring a pot that needs stirring.

 

As for posting them in for forums. Without posting my coin list in these forums, I've already gotten several offers to buy coins with pick up at Geocoinfest 2010. How is that different than having them available there for people to actually look at and buy on site?

 

So the convenience of the event is worth $20 maybe more but less than $200 is that correct? How much are you willing to pay? Like I said if you get together with a few others in the same boat you could buy a table. I even know a few of the artist who are not full time coin vendors that have done this and I think are doing it this year.

 

It is a grey line if you start to let others sell, therefore the black and white of it is only vendors get to sell. Seems reasonable even if I was not a vendor.

Edited by CacheAddict.com
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WOW, What a way to end a fun day of caching. We have been hard at work for 14 months with only two months to go. We are trying to make this a fun event for all. We have been soliciting everyone and every business local and national to get support for the event. If we do not get enough, it will be coming out of my pocket! As mention above this event is not inexpensive to host. I am personally on the hook for over $12,000. You think I’m not trying to get sponsors?

 

I'm very sorry to have come across like I don't respect all the work you and the rest of the committee and likely a host of volunteers have done to make this event happen. It IS greatly appreciated by me at the very least! I'd very much like to thank all of you for your huge efforts in all respects including financially. I hope you do at least break even.

 

I'm just bring to the front an issue that obviously has been going on since geocoins were invented. At some point, some event/mega-event will need to address this and find a solution that works for all involved (vendor and collector) or dealings like this will continue as they have in the past in back rooms and parking lots.

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Here is a question, not sure who can answer this or who wants to but...

 

10 people get together and buy a vendor table to sell coins they bought from vendors/ebayers/public/etc. Set up their table and proceed to sell coins mostly those designed by the same vendors who will probably be at the event selling their own designs.

 

Now as an example but not really happening, I just invested $400 on a remint of the 2008 Earth Turtle (a color scheme previously done) to sell at the event. Table of multiple coiners is also selling the same Earth Turtles all 20 they have amassed between them. Not only does the original designer/vendor possibly lose out on sales but someone else is selling my designs at the event I'm at.

 

Heck who's to say that someone won't come up with the idea to buy as many of the Earth Turtle 2010 coins at the event and then turn around and sell them for more at their own table 1 hour later when the vendor sells out of them? Ok, the chances of this happening are pretty slim but wierder things have happened :lol:

 

I would personally like to see some precautions taken by the event staff since this is something that's a bit newer to the scene.

 

I'm just sayin'

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I'm going to speak as a regular attendee.

 

I appreciate the vendors so much for everything they do. Without them, these events would not happen!

 

As a regular attendee, when I sit down at the trading table, I am there to trade, not to buy. I don't think I would appreciate being turned down for a trade because the person wanted money, and wasn't there to trade coins. That is what the trading tables are for.

 

I can understand that. But if you offered a geocoin or something else other than money and the trade was rejected, would you still feel jilted? I am open for trades, just not for other geocoins unless it's got something really special about it as I've already got 450+ of them (I'm still keeping about 1/3 of them). so yes I have a lot of money invested in my collection but I enjoy them and am not looking to profit by them, the vendors already have by me buying them in the first place.

 

Personally I'm still going to visit and buy stuff from the vendors anyway, just not any more geocoins. I've got more than enough thanks! Also I do want to and intend to do other things during geocoinfest so I'm not taking up residence all day as I personally, don't need to sell any coins. Call it a bonus if I do sell even one.

 

I actually just enjoy being able to show my coins and watch people's reactions and be to tell stories about them as all do. I just have WAY TO MANY! Most events, I only bring a very small subset unless I get a special request. And that's either to sell or just to show or both! 450 coins is heavy and hard to display!

 

I'm in no way taking this issue lightly, but I'm also not attempting to pick on this particular event or any particular vendor or cacher. I'm merely raising an issue that seems to have long old roots.

Edited by MHz
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Here is a question, not sure who can answer this or who wants to but...

 

10 people get together and buy a vendor table to sell coins they bought from vendors/ebayers/public/etc. Set up their table and proceed to sell coins mostly those designed by the same vendors who will probably be at the event selling their own designs.

 

Now as an example but not really happening, I just invested $400 on a remint of the 2008 Earth Turtle (a color scheme previously done) to sell at the event. Table of multiple coiners is also selling the same Earth Turtles all 20 they have amassed between them. Not only does the original designer/vendor possibly lose out on sales but someone else is selling my designs at the event I'm at.

 

Heck who's to say that someone won't come up with the idea to buy as many of the Earth Turtle 2010 coins at the event and then turn around and sell them for more at their own table 1 hour later when the vendor sells out of them? Ok, the chances of this happening are pretty slim but wierder things have happened :lol:

 

I would personally like to see some precautions taken by the event staff since this is something that's a bit newer to the scene.

 

I'm just sayin'

 

A valid issue, I can understand that but that's a common issue outside of geocaching and other hobbies/sports/companies deal with it far better than this.

 

I too have designed and minted a geocoin for our local club. I know the process all too well. Well enough to know I will never mint my own personal geocoin.

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Ha. Go 'camping' for the weekend and a thread like this shows up! :lol:

 

No side selling has been a rule from the start simply because it means that according to the county and various state you are then vending and you need to pay a vendors fee and sales tax on all of your sales. Individual sellers would rarely have the necessary paperwork (it's not worth the time and $). If a county assessor asked for vender permits and they were not shown they could shut us down and fine us.

 

Events such as Geocoinfest pay a fee to the county to allow vendors to be at the event. They also pay a fee for insurance to cover attendees and vendors, but that is limited.

 

For all these reasons, we have not allowed individuals to sell independently at the event. Individuals are welcome to rent a table and sell, but there is no one stopping you from selling outside the premises of the event. Personally, I think it's free-loading but that's just me.

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There are two 6' tables (instead of 8') that are $175. Don't know if they've been claimed. But that's fewer people to make your community table (which I think is kind of a fun idea!)

 

I like this idea too! It's a great solution to this issue! I ask again, who would like to share a table to trade geocoins for gecoins, geocaching swag, $$ or anything else they'd like to trade their coins for?

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but that's a common issue outside of geocaching and other hobbies/sports/companies deal with it far better than this

 

Feel free to email me, I would love to hear how others hobbies/sports/companies deal with it far better, I am all for win - win solutions.

 

But it sounds like (from your initial post) that you are no longer that much interested in geocoins and just want to sell them off... using Geocoinfest as a place to do that... the forums here are a great place to offload coins.

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Ha. Go 'camping' for the weekend and a thread like this shows up! :lol:

 

No side selling has been a rule from the start simply because it means that according to the county and various state you are then vending and you need to pay a vendors fee and sales tax on all of your sales. Individual sellers would rarely have the necessary paperwork (it's not worth the time and $). If a county assessor asked for vender permits and they were not shown they could shut us down and fine us.

 

Events such as Geocoinfest pay a fee to the county to allow vendors to be at the event. They also pay a fee for insurance to cover attendees and vendors, but that is limited.

 

For all these reasons, we have not allowed individuals to sell independently at the event. Individuals are welcome to rent a table and sell, but there is no one stopping you from selling outside the premises of the event. Personally, I think it's free-loading but that's just me.

 

That is the best reasoning about this issue I've heard since I thought about heading to this mega-event. That is totally understandable and reasonable. And thanks very much for posting it!

 

I'm very sorry for spoiling people's days today but this issue needed to be aired.

 

I'm very happy to share a portion of a table cost with the purpose of creating a community table where all can trade/sell geocoins for geocoins, $$ or anything else that may be of interest.

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But it sounds like (from your initial post) that you are no longer that much interested in geocoins and just want to sell them off... using Geocoinfest as a place to do that... the forums here are a great place to offload coins.

 

Oh no, I'm a true blood geocoin addict! I have not bought a geocoin in 49 days, 6 hours and one minute..... oh drat, I did buy a geocoin with my registration didn't I! :lol:

Edited by MHz
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In a way you're asking to go to someone else's shop and sell stuff that they sell at the shop too. That's pretty selfish of you. GCF2010 has gone through a lot of effort to put a huge event together and have incurred large expenses.... and you want to ride their coat tails at your convenience for a commercial purpose, that is you want to sell stuff, not trade which the event is geared towards, but sell. Even at a flea market you have to pay a fee to use the event for your purposes.

 

On the other hand this is an event where hundreds of cachers and geocoin aficionados will congregate, chat, tell whopping tales and fish stories. There is nothing to keep you from doing a little horse trading that involves going outside and exchanging packets of coins for packets of money.... only your own conscience and integrity.

 

I love this post...

 

...and I'll be available for confessions (for no fee)

 

:lol::P:D:D:D

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Oh goodie, a thread I can finally sink my teeth into :P I'll be back later today when I have more time to type.

 

tsun

 

Edit to add: I changed my mind, I was going to post some big ole' doosie but I promised myself to stay out of the drama hence my lack of postings in the forums these days :D I got designs to work on anyhow :lol:

 

I'd like to hear from you Stephanie...

 

:D

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Oh goodie, a thread I can finally sink my teeth into :P I'll be back later today when I have more time to type.

 

tsun

 

Edit to add: I changed my mind, I was going to post some big ole' doosie but I promised myself to stay out of the drama hence my lack of postings in the forums these days :D I got designs to work on anyhow :lol:

 

I'd like to hear from you Stephanie...

 

:D

 

I wrote something a little bit later but go read my other new thread and post that you'll come to Montana :D

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Here is a question, not sure who can answer this or who wants to but...

 

10 people get together and buy a vendor table to sell coins they bought from vendors/ebayers/public/etc. Set up their table and proceed to sell coins mostly those designed by the same vendors who will probably be at the event selling their own designs.

 

Now as an example but not really happening, I just invested $400 on a remint of the 2008 Earth Turtle (a color scheme previously done) to sell at the event. Table of multiple coiners is also selling the same Earth Turtles all 20 they have amassed between them. Not only does the original designer/vendor possibly lose out on sales but someone else is selling my designs at the event I'm at.

 

Heck who's to say that someone won't come up with the idea to buy as many of the Earth Turtle 2010 coins at the event and then turn around and sell them for more at their own table 1 hour later when the vendor sells out of them? Ok, the chances of this happening are pretty slim but wierder things have happened :P

 

I would personally like to see some precautions taken by the event staff since this is something that's a bit newer to the scene.

 

I'm just sayin'

 

Definitely a good point. Last year one of the vendor tables was selling a slew of coins, and I don't believe they were all designed by the person selling them. I guess that's different as it was just one person, and they only had one coin of each design, so it's not the same as 20 people getting together to sell 20 of your coins.

 

I still think it's a fun idea, although it should be done showing respect to the artists that are at the show. No way to enforce that, however.

 

P.S. tsun, you're unique in that you sell out of coins (because everyone loves them!); most of us don't have that concern. :lol:

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!!! All I'd like to add is that there is a PARTY in the CORNER of GCF 2010 !!!

 

ok ok, to keep the post on topic I'd also like to add that in MN you do not need a vending license to sell at a convention. I checked Minnesota, Minneapolis and Bloomington. You do need a peddler license if selling in the public though, so please keep that in mind if you plan on selling geocoins out of your van down by the river :unsure:

 

~z

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I actually bought coins from non-vendors at the last GCF. I believe people were selling coins other than vendor hours. During vendor hours people just traded. I'm not sure if that was okay or not, but it's what people were doing.

 

This is my first year buying a vendor table to sell coins. I wonder if a group of people could get together to buy a table together and have a community "flea market" table. Splitting the cost amongst you, it's not that expensive.

 

 

Then there should be at least vendor hours posted so we know when not to sell/trade our coins for something other than another geocoin. Could the GCF committee please post vendor hours on the geocoinfest webpages?

 

Obviously selling from private collections has happened before at all gecoinfests and likely all mega-events. At some point, this will become more than just a growing pain and be properly addressed rather than just saying it doesn't happen or shouldn't happen.

 

I am up for paying $20 to share a vendor table and any who wish to share with me can post here or send me an e-mail. Perhaps this way we can actually help with the event instead of just pushing this issue into the back rooms.

As far as I understood from the last Coinfest, the only time and place where you would not be able to sell your coins is...

 

During the Main Event(times for this are listed)

 

In the main event hall(location of this is listed)

 

If you want to sell in your room, in the lobby, after or before the main event, at one of the many other events over the weekend, at your OWN event that you host at another time/place, then have at it. Why not come up with your own event to host as a Geocoin swap meet? I'm sure the comittee would welcome other events to help add to the fun of the weekend.

 

between 10 and 4 in the main event hall, no private selling. Heck...even the vendors have to agree that this is the only time thet they WILL sell(as far as I know). Maybe you could request a copy of the vendor agreement to see for yourself...

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I think personal sellers are going to just have to accept "No" as the answer, and sell their coins outside the event. These events take a long time to plan. If everyone were to start selling their coins unplanned, there would probably be mayhem. Go, have fun, and sell your coins here in the forums, or outside the event.

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Heck...even the vendors have to agree that this is the only time thet they WILL sell(as far as I know). Maybe you could request a copy of the vendor agreement to see for yourself...

That is correct, it is in the vendor contract. We are not allowed to sell outside of the main event.

 

Selling at other GCF events seems to be a bit of a gray area. I personally think that GCF has an opportunity to cover more event costs by adding a "sponsorship structure" to the side events.

 

~z

Edited by Zelanzy
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Well now that I've let this topic settle in for a while to see opinions both in the forum and off (via e-mails etc) and on both sides, I thought I'd post some final comments before I leave this topic alone at least for this event.

 

I'm actually amazed at several things.

 

I can't believe how many people actually think that starting another geocoin event before/during/after the mega-geocoin event is in any way helpful or right. it just seems counter productive and would seem to be a waste of time as most will be at the mega-event and arranging their caching weekend around this. lets not even get started in what an insult to the committee and volunteers who are setting up a mega-geocoin event. That's not the spirit or solution I was looking for at all. Once again just my own opinion on this. I even went as far as to inquire with my local cache reviewer to find out what the general opinion was from Groundspeak about this and I was quite happy with his answer which lined up with what I thought for the most part. (I like getting 3rd party opinions who don't have anything at stake in an issue).

 

I also can't believe how many people would rather do business in the back room and this is thought of as the norm. Cheaper? Sure. More convenient? No not really. Time consuming? Oh yeah! I'd rather be caching than bother with that! But yet selling via the forums or on e-bay, in the open, is perfectly ok. Anything on the internet (where most geocaching stuff is sold), is a competition with the vendors/retailers/private sellers all the time but it's at least a level playing field! However, for an event where vendors have far far less competition for their goods and are virtually guaranteed to make money (at least good well know vendors should), it seems a level playing field can't be found and I bet the vendors even bid more against other vendors just to have top billing rights and the small guys and private sellers fall into the back room because they have no place else to go but it's far cheaper that way anyway.

 

The community table idea seemed like a solution that still seems to be evolving and growing and perhaps a step towards something that could be widely accepted as a legitimate way to accomplish things that all can be happy with. But oddly enough because the cheaper back room selling is now ingrained as the norm, I can't see a community table happening even though I did have some others interested in helping with that (thanks for that!) and I personally find that to be a real loss. And I don't mean to the pocket book as all my coins owe me nothing and I don't have a dying need to sell them. Once again this is just me and I'm not speaking for anyone else.

 

I think I'm going to sit back and re think this whole geocoin thing and maybe I will post to the forums my list or start selling them on ebay for profit if I want to start mass mailing geocoins again (which I don't as that's what got me addicted in the first place).

 

But for this event I think I'm going to leave my coins at home to gather more dust except a few which I can have fun with. They are far too heavy to lug around to this event for what to me is little gain (not to mention how do you explain that many when I cross the border! LOL!). I'll likely save my $20 that was for the community table for the donation bin at the event assuming there is one.

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Well now that I've let this topic settle in for a while to see opinions both in the forum and off (via e-mails etc) and on both sides, I thought I'd post some final comments before I leave this topic alone at least for this event.

 

I'm actually amazed at several things.

 

[snip]

 

I also can't believe how many people would rather do business in the back room and this is thought of as the norm. Cheaper? Sure. More convenient? No not really. Time consuming? Oh yeah! I'd rather be caching than bother with that! But yet selling via the forums or on e-bay, in the open, is perfectly ok. Anything on the internet (where most geocaching stuff is sold), is a competition with the vendors/retailers/private sellers all the time but it's at least a level playing field! However, for an event where vendors have far far less competition for their goods and are virtually guaranteed to make money (at least good well know vendors should), it seems a level playing field can't be found and I bet the vendors even bid more against other vendors just to have top billing rights and the small guys and private sellers fall into the back room because they have no place else to go but it's far cheaper that way anyway.

 

The community table idea seemed like a solution that still seems to be evolving and growing and perhaps a step towards something that could be widely accepted as a legitimate way to accomplish things that all can be happy with. But oddly enough because the cheaper back room selling is now ingrained as the norm, I can't see a community table happening even though I did have some others interested in helping with that (thanks for that!) and I personally find that to be a real loss. And I don't mean to the pocket book as all my coins owe me nothing and I don't have a dying need to sell them. Once again this is just me and I'm not speaking for anyone else.

 

I think I'm going to sit back and re think this whole geocoin thing and maybe I will post to the forums my list or start selling them on ebay for profit if I want to start mass mailing geocoins again (which I don't as that's what got me addicted in the first place).

 

But for this event I think I'm going to leave my coins at home to gather more dust except a few which I can have fun with. They are far too heavy to lug around to this event for what to me is little gain (not to mention how do you explain that many when I cross the border! LOL!). I'll likely save my $20 that was for the community table for the donation bin at the event assuming there is one.

 

I may be misunderstanding you, but your post seems rather upset, which makes me sad. :D The community table is a brand new idea, and I think if done well it could be a fun, creative way to address this issue. Of course I have less to lose from it than some others, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. ;)

 

You mention that the smaller sellers are stuck in a "back room". I think you might misunderstand the layout. :D The vendor area is a large room with tables around the outside. The center is trading tables. There is one wall with more doors that has two smaller tables. There is no bidding on tables. When you say you are interested in a table, you get a map of who is where, and which tables are open.

 

Making money is not a guarantee. I will need to sell 80 coins to make my money back just for the table (remember, we don't get $10/coin in profit) and in talking to small time coin designers, it sounds like that I may break even, but it's not a guarantee. This doesn't include the cost of the banner, the extra cost of luggage because coins are HEAVY, etc. For me it's more about fun (if I wanted to make tons of money, I'd stick to eBay).

 

Again, I am only speaking of last year which is my limited experience. This will be my first year selling, so I'll have more info later.

 

As for the "back room" selling, last year registration started the night before, and it became a huge trading/selling/meet & greet area. People congregate all the time, and selling/trading happens. It's not done in hidden back rooms with special handshakes (or if it does, I never was invited :yikes:), and these aren't separate events. You have a bunch of geocoin enthusiasts milling around in a confined location (hotel), these things will just happen on their own!

 

In the end, what you do is of course your decision, but your response to what I felt was a rather constructive thread made me sad enough that I felt compelled to reply again. :) My apologies if I misunderstood your tone.

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