A cache that you can't take anything from?

[+Lauraluvsbng]

Edited July 24, 2010 by Lauraluvsbng

[+thedeadpirate]

Can you give us a GC #?

[+Chrysalides]

http://coord.info/GC2C0P7

 

While I think it is strange to place items in a cache to show other people with instructions not to remove, not knowing anything more about the cache and other info, I will not venture an opinion about what you should do.

 

But fear not, at least a few will

[+Chrysalides]

Can you give us a GC #?

Aw, c'mon, surely one as strong in the Force as you can figure it out?

 

(see my post for the answer)

 

What's the story behind your new avatar anyway?

[+t4e]

unfortunately the CO has a right to set whatever "rules" he wishes, within the guidelines, which in this case there are none saying you can't allow trading

 

having said that, i have to admit this is a really weird request lol...not to mention hard to enforce, while you are being honest about it i have no doubt that there will be cachers that will take/trade stuff out of that cache

 

hmm having read the cache description i see why they choose to keep the items in the cache, they will be for the benefit of everyone visiting the cache

as such i think its a good idea, but can only hope the items will stay put

Edited July 24, 2010 by t4e

[+thedeadpirate]

Can you give us a GC #?

Aw, c'mon, surely one as strong in the Force as you can figure it out?

 

(see my post for the answer)

 

What's the story behind your new avatar anyway?

 

I can, but shouldn't have to.

 

*** I'm hiding out from the tax man.

[4wheelin_fool]

Received notice of this one and immediately took off to find the cache. With a shock and surprise we were FTF!! Our very first time being FTF. The kids (aged 6 and 8) loved everything in the cache. They even fought over what they were going to be rewarded with. Then we get home, my jaw dropped when I saw that we can't take anything from the cache, it's only for show?

Can someone please tell me if this is right, or am I crazy to think that I should have the placer of the cache tell my kids they have to give back what they so rightfully fought over....????? HELP!!!!

 

Put the stuff back or I'm calling the cops.

[+dfx]

i concur, it's up to the CO to declare which items in the cache are swag and which are inventory and shouldn't be taken. it is strange to have a cache full of stuff that you're not supposed to take, but not unheard of.

 

on the other hand, the CO's request for people not to take any stuff is kinda buried in the big chunk of description text. of course people are supposed to read the full text before going for a cache, but reality looks quite different. it would be wiser if the CO put that part in big red letters.

 

also (@ OP here) it sounds like you took stuff without putting anything else back into the cache?

Edited July 24, 2010 by dfx

[+thedeadpirate]

unfortunately the CO has a right to set whatever "rules" he wishes, within the guidelines, which in this case there are none saying you can't allow trading

 

having said that, i have to admit this is a really weird request lol...not to mention hard to enforce, while you are being honest about it i have no doubt that there will be cachers that will take/trade stuff out of that cache

 

I'm not sure what the contents are, exactly. But I hope he didn't put out valuable souvenirs thinking that some rule he put on the listing would prevent people from trading out the items.

 

As far as the OP is concerned, I would do as my heart leads me. If you feel like the items were such that they really should remain, then take them back. Otherwise, hold on to them. As long as you traded fairly for them, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

 

Just as a side note: Had you read the listing prior to hunting the cache, then this could have been avoided.

 

Side note #2: If the cache owner really doesn't want the items traded out, then he should have made it a puzzle cache to force people to read the listing.

[jholly]

My opinion (you knew I had one, right?)

 

If the CO did not want the stuff traded or wandering off it should have never been placed in the cache in the first place. If you didn't take it some one else will. Unless the stuff is cast in a clear polymer that is part of the cache container it will disappear. Even then, unless the container is cast into a massive block of concrete the whole nine yards can go wandering. Case in point, the lid to the last remaining APE cache in the US that had an APE coin attached with a screw. gone. evaporated. Must have been the bears. Do what feels good.

[jholly]

Can you give us a GC #?

Aw, c'mon, surely one as strong in the Force as you can figure it out?

 

(see my post for the answer)

 

What's the story behind your new avatar anyway?

 

I can, but shouldn't have to.

 

*** I'm hiding out from the tax man.

 

Dime dropped. Tax man should be there in the morning.

[+thedeadpirate]

Dime dropped. Tax man should be there in the morning.

 

They'll never take me alive!

[+Don_J]

It's been hammered out here, over and over and over again. When you put a cache out there, you are no longer in control. While I don't trade swag, isn't the basic premise of caches is that they are placed to trade swag?

 

I do know one thing, if I were to trust my prized collection to my cache description, the instructions would be leading the description, in bold and a larger font, and probably a whole bunch of exclamation points. I certainly wouldn't bury it at the end of a multi paragraph history lesson.

[+niraD]

There is precedent for non-tradeable items in caches: logs, pens and pencil to sign the logs, stamps and ink pads in letterbox hybrids, TBs and geocoins (which are to be moved, not traded), magnets (which hold the cache to a steel surface), etc.

 

But TBs and geocoins disappear all the time. So do pens and pencils, stamps and ink pads, and all the rest. If the owner wants items in the cache to stay put, then they need to be labeled very clearly. Better yet, they should be secured to the cache itself. I've seen geocoins left in caches this way, to be discovered by those who find the cache. But even this isn't a guarantee, as the recent incident with the Washington APE cache demonstrates.

 

Burying the request in the middle of a wall of text in the cache description isn't enough.

[+t4e]

My opinion (you knew I had one, right?)

 

 

well knowing that opinions are like a******s, i'd be worried if you didn't have one

[+t4e]

 

*** I'm hiding out from the tax man.

 

and you think disguising yourself as a pickle is going to help, have you seen a tax-man's face, they look like they are eating pickles for desert

[+thedeadpirate]

I just noticed the CO is a new cacher. It's possible he doesn't realize just how bad of an idea it is to put items he doesn't want traded out into a cache.

 

Maybe the OP could contact the CO and offer to bring the items back and advise the CO to remove those items if he truly doesn't wish for them to be taken.

 

I think this is just a case of inexperience on the part of the CO.

[+thedeadpirate]

 

*** I'm hiding out from the tax man.

 

and you think disguising yourself as a pickle is going to help, have you seen a tax-man's face, they look like they are eating pickles for desert

 

Ok, no one would come after a cute little dog, would they?

[+Lauraluvsbng]

Here's the cord's

http://coord.info/GC2C0P7

Paoli massacre

 

[fo

Edited July 24, 2010 by Lauraluvsbng

[+Lauraluvsbng]

nnnna

Edited July 24, 2010 by Lauraluvsbng

[+dfx]

just a side note, as i have the feeling that this isn't quite clear yet: being FTF doesn't automatically entitle you to take something without leaving anything in return. most caches don't offer any FTF prizes, and those that do will specifically say so.

[+thedeadpirate]

Soooo what should I do??? Or are you all going to tell on me????

You have these answers so far:

As far as the OP is concerned, I would do as my heart leads me.

and

Do what feels good.

But then you have 4wheelin's reply:

Put the stuff back or I'm calling the cops.

 

So I'm all conflicted now.

[+Ike 13]

What I want to do is tell the guy too bad, my kids are happy with the musket balls, and the fake money.

 

Wow great attitude. Trade up or even those are the generally accepted rules. If you don't want to play by those rules that's your decision, but please do not brag about doing so.

 

But the fact that I was FTF and did NOT receive something "great" really stinks....I may have to give back the things that I only wanted because my children were there.

 

The true prize of any FTF is just the knowledge you were there first. Most cachers do not place any prize.

 

Newbie or not, you don't do geocaching to only find the cache itself.

 

Actually that's exactly why I and a lot of other cachers (from newbies to the most experienced) go geocaching. The interesting places, the great stories, the thrill of the hunt, and the reward of the find.

 

Soooo what should I do??? Or are you all going to tell on me????

 

Do what you think is right. I would feel bad about taking anything without trading. I would at least go back and put equivalently valued trade items in the cache.

[+Lauraluvsbng]

just a side note, as i have the feeling that this isn't quite clear yet: being FTF doesn't automatically entitle you to take something without leaving anything in return. most caches don't offer any FTF prizes, and those that do will specifically say so.

I never said that I was expecting a huge prize, it's the excitement of my very first FTF.[/u] Then the come down from having to give back my milestone. It's not something that it's important monetarily, it's the memory of the find that I'm entitled too. And I did leave something in return, most likely worth more than the hassle.

It will be going back to the owner of the cache.{Can I take what I left back then too}?

[YAYALEC]

What I want to do is tell the guy too bad, my kids are happy with the musket balls, and the fake money. Nothing that was in the cache was original, all bought at a souvenir shop. (I think?? maybe the fake money is real??) The container had the BIG sticker of "this is a cache" and there was a business card sized explanation of "what geocaching is....(to "muggles that is?). Oh, and a fork, there was a fork thingy in there.

But the fact that I was FTF and did NOT receive something "great" really stinks....I may have to give back the things that I only wanted because my children were there. I would have taken something with or with out them, but.....I guess I want to make up excuses for NOT giving them back. Newbie or not, you don't do geocaching to only find the cache itself. I'm a nosey girl, I want to know what people put in them and take out too! Soooo what should I do??? Or are you all going to tell on me????

 

Do I feel a sense of entitlement? As previously stated cache owners are not obliged to give a great FTF prize. Also many people geocache just to find the cache. What is so great in these things that so many people are so concerned what they fnd in it. Enjoy the hunt not the prize.

[+thedeadpirate]

it's the memory of the find that I'm entitled too.

No one can take away your memory of the event.

 

BTW, that is generally all I take from a cache; memories.

 

It will be going back to the owner of the cache.{Can I take what I left back then too}?

Only if you hurry. The longer you wait, the higher the chance is that someone will have traded out for the items you left.

[+BlueDeuce]

Can someone please tell me if this is right, or am I crazy to think that I should have the placer of the cache tell my kids they have to give back what they so rightfully fought over....????? HELP!!!![/font]

 

 

So were these items just sitting at the bottom of the container, or were there any additional instructions in the cache.

[+Lauraluvsbng]

W

Edited July 24, 2010 by Lauraluvsbng

[+narcissa]

The cache owner can say the items are for show, but there's really no way for he/she to enforce that. Given that many geocachers don't read descriptions before heading to the cache, it seems foolish to put non-trade items in a cache (aside from the usual log book, and stamp for letterbox-hybrids). Put the items back if it wears on your conscience, but don't fret about it too much.

[+Lauraluvsbng]

What I want to do is tell the guy too bad, my kids are happy with the musket balls, and the fake money.

 

Wow great attitude. Trade up or even those are the generally accepted rules. If you don't want to play by those rules that's your decision, but please do not brag about doing so.

Yeah...I'm BRAGGING....that's exactly what I'm doing.

But the fact that I was FTF and did NOT receive something "great" really stinks....I may have to give back the things that I only wanted because my children were there.

 

The true prize of any FTF is just the knowledge you were there first. Most cachers do not place any prize.

 

Newbie or not, you don't do geocaching to only find the cache itself.

 

Actually that's exactly why I and a lot of other cachers (from newbies to the most experienced) go geocaching. The interesting places, the great stories, the thrill of the hunt, and the reward of the find.

 

Soooo what should I do??? Or are you all going to tell on me????

 

Do what you think is right. I would feel bad about taking anything without trading. I would at least go back and put equivalently valued trade items in the cache.

[+Cardinal Red]

I put this cache on my watchlist. Should be great entertainment. Since this cache is only 30 miles away I will know or be acquainted with many of the finders. The cache hider is new. They are hurtling toward a head on collision with disappointment. If you place something in a cache, it's probably gone forever. This will be a great learning experience for them.

 

Where are all you experts coming to the conclusion that these "show items" were just taken instead of being traded out? Would someone please point out where Lauraluvsbng indicated not leaving anything, or where they were taken as FTF gifts. In any case, I did do some research. I saw no instance in previous logs where Lauraluvsbng indicated taking swag without leaving something. There was at least one instanced where items were left and nothing was taken. I say quit bashing Lauraluvsbng. The cache hider created the problem here.

 

But, speaking of learning experiences. Lauraluvsbng: You logged a find on a TB Exchange cache and two days later logged another "find" when you stopped back to drop off a TB. I would edit that second "find" to a WRITE NOTE log instead. There are places where logging more than one find per cache is quite common, but not in our area.

 

Congrats on your FTF. As far as the "show items" you removed from the cache, I would not put them back in the cache. Wait and watch this train wreck unfold. All those items are going to vanish anyway.

[+Lauraluvsbng]

I put this cache on my watchlist. Should be great entertainment. Since this cache is only 30 miles away I will know or be acquainted with many of the finders. The cache hider is new. They are hurtling toward a head on collision with disappointment. If you place something in a cache, it's probably gone forever. This will be a great learning experience for them.

 

Where are all you experts coming to the conclusion that these "show items" were just taken instead of being traded out? Would someone please point out where Lauraluvsbng indicated not leaving anything, or where they were taken as FTF gifts. In any case, I did do some research. I saw no instance in previous logs where Lauraluvsbng indicated taking swag without leaving something. There was at least one instanced where items were left and nothing was taken. I say quit bashing Lauraluvsbng. The cache hider created the problem here.

 

But, speaking of learning experiences. Lauraluvsbng: You logged a find on a TB Exchange cache and two days later logged another "find" when you stopped back to drop off a TB. I would edit that second "find" to a WRITE NOTE log instead. There are places where logging more than one find per cache is quite common, but not in our area.

 

Congrats on your FTF. As far as the "show items" you removed from the cache, I would not put them back in the cache. Wait and watch this train wreck unfold. All those items are going to vanish anyway.

 

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I feel like I'm back in HS and all the mean girls are after me.

I will check out the TB right now. I think I may have made a mistake by marking it a find...., It was a cache that had been a TB Hotel, but all the TB's listed were no where to be found. The cache had been compromised. Thank you, I'll check that out.

And again, THANK YOU!!!

 

[+thedeadpirate]

I feel like I'm back in HS and all the mean girls are after me.

 

?????????

 

You had couple of negative comments. The rest have been fairly positive.

[+Lauraluvsbng]

I feel like I'm back in HS and all the mean girls are after me.

 

?????????

 

You had couple of negative comments. The rest have been fairly positive.

 

No you've been nice. I didn't mean it towards anyone that was nice to me. I don't think I'm bragging, or feel entitled at all. It was to the people who said that, that's all.

[+Lauraluvsbng]

[

 

So were these items just sitting at the bottom of the container, or were there any additional instructions in the cache.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Lauraluvsbng

[+Dragery]

Cool, i wonder what you trade up or equivalent for Revolutionary War relics... I don't think that Burger King kids meal Team Edward wallet will suffice.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

*** I'm hiding out from the tax man.

 

and you think disguising yourself as a pickle is going to help, have you seen a tax-man's face, they look like they are eating pickles for desert

Actually, they look like that whenever thes SEE a Pickle, it's like Kryptonite to them.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I noticed that the Cache hider is only a month old, so maybe they are not as familiar with how things end up, or maybe they have a cool new idea on how to use the game. I guess to make their cache work best, all the display items would have to be attached or enclosed in some way. I think I'll work on something like that.

[+hukilaulau]

No not entitlement at all. Just disappointed that my KIDS won't be able to keep the item they have from the cache. That's all. My kids LOVE to wonder ...

and on and on... So just KEEP it already! No need for all the drama. You are under no obligation to put it back. You may leave a new cacher a bit disillusioned about the crowd he has chosen to run with, but he might as well learn the lesson early!

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

I feel like I'm back in HS and all the mean girls are after me.

 

?????????

 

You had couple of negative comments. The rest have been fairly positive.

Agreeing here.

 

The Co is new at hiding, you are relatively new at caching. I too had once double-found a cache and was corrected (?) for it. Happy that the CO corrected me, we are now good friends.

 

From the OP, it does look like you took but failed to trade -- as seen often in the forums, it is usually a partial story that we are provided with. You now say that you did trade, I am sure it was just an oversight, but you can now see how postings are read.

 

I think the CO has made a **mistake** by putting such things out in a "view only" cache. He/she is gonna learn from that.

 

I think too, that you are overplaying the "I deserve this because" card also! You deserve only to sign a virgin logbook as an FTF prize (and the right to claim that FTF), nothing more as there seems to be no denoted FTF prize in the cache.

 

Whether you return the items or not is your choice -- I am not even going to state what I would do, it doesn't matter. I do think however, that you should not let your kids "rule" the way you play the game.

I think you should explain to your kids what the intentions of the cache was (a non-trade cache). Explain it to them. Should they decide they want to keep them (as you so eloquently stated that they "so rightfully fought over... ???"), that is their choice, but you also have a choice to make. Just what is it that you want them to learn? You're the parent, BTW! In other words, NO you should not have the CO tell your kids they have to put the stuff back. If anyone does tell them such, that is YOUR responsibility!

 

Lastly, "attacking" a cache w/o reading the page for whatever information may/may not be there IMO, is bad, bad and bad. Reading first avoids 'problems' as this, as well as many other possibles.

 

In your support, I do think you should do what you feel is best. Nobody here should dictate anything to you.

You came here, asking for suggestions. That is what you have gotten.

 

I await flying plates, rocks and whatever.

[+dfx]

I await flying plates, rocks and whatever.

ni?

[+Chokecherry]

Around here a lot of people just leave the FTF prize behind (which is typically not something extravagant). I've been to caches that have been sitting for quite some time with the FTF prizes still in them. Not all people run to the cache to get a good prize. My friend and I try for FTF just to be the first in the log book. How can it get much better than that?

 

Some people don't cache for the stuff they find but the experiences they have. Sounds like this cache is somewhere where it would be an interesting experience. And hopefully what was placed in there was not actually historic because I find it to be sad to think people might be grabbing that stuff and thinking it's a toy when it might not be. The cache owner should have noted that.

 

The CO will learn a lesson from this experience. But I don't believe the cache owner has any responsibility to explain to anyone's children that they should return the objects. It's really the responsibility of the finders to read those cache descriptions where that factoid is mentioned but could be mentioned better obviously.

 

As an adult you are able to exercise your free will and make the decision on how to handle this situation.

[+Lauraluvsbng]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I've definitely learned from this experience.

[+thedeadpirate]

The Co is new at hiding, you are relatively new at caching. I too had once double-found a cache and was corrected (?) for it. Happy that the CO corrected me, we are now good friends.

 

From the OP, it does look like you took but failed to trade -- as seen often in the forums, it is usually a partial story that we are provided with. You now say that you did trade, I am sure it was just an oversight, but you can now see how postings are read.

 

I think the CO has made a **mistake** by putting such things out in a "view only" cache. He/she is gonna learn from that.

 

I think too, that you are overplaying the "I deserve this because" card also! You deserve only to sign a virgin logbook as an FTF prize (and the right to claim that FTF), nothing more as there seems to be no denoted FTF prize in the cache.

 

Whether you return the items or not is your choice -- I am not even going to state what I would do, it doesn't matter. I do think however, that you should not let your kids "rule" the way you play the game.

I think you should explain to your kids what the intentions of the cache was (a non-trade cache). Explain it to them. Should they decide they want to keep them (as you so eloquently stated that they "so rightfully fought over... ???"), that is their choice, but you also have a choice to make. Just what is it that you want them to learn? You're the parent, BTW! In other words, NO you should not have the CO tell your kids they have to put the stuff back. If anyone does tell them such, that is YOUR responsibility!

 

Lastly, "attacking" a cache w/o reading the page for whatever information may/may not be there IMO, is bad, bad and bad. Reading first avoids 'problems' as this, as well as many other possibles.

 

In your support, I do think you should do what you feel is best. Nobody here should dictate anything to you.

You came here, asking for suggestions. That is what you have gotten.

 

I await flying plates, rocks and whatever.

 

+1 on the entire post. I don't think anything of substance can really be added.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Put the stuff back.

 

If anything it will be a great lesson for the kids that folks make mistakes, when they do there's no need for anger, just fix it.

 

The CO made a mistake by not making it clear IN THE CACHE as well as on the listing that the items were displays to be shared but not traded for.

 

You made a mistake when you learned that he wanted the items to stay in the cache by not returning them without fuss.

 

Neither is a big deal, you can both fix your errors, no harm no foul.

 

The commentary that the CO will find that folks take these items is sad but true. In a Utopian world you should be able to leave nice things unattended and no one will take them. We don't live in Utopia however and he will find that his items will soon disappear. Labeling them or attaching tags that say something like "Look, Learn but Leave behind" might help a little bit.

 

The thing is, whether we think the CO is right or wrong, he's entitled to control his property. If we know when we find the cache that these are not trade items we should respect that. If, on the other hand, it is not clear to the finder while at the cache site (not everyone reads the listing) then the CO should expect anything in the cache to be treated as a trade item, as is the normal expectation in this game.

Edited July 24, 2010 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+t4e]

Newbie or not, you don't do geocaching to only find the cache itself.

 

true, we go to see a nice place, to have a long walk along beautiful trails, see a nice view

 

and occasionally (once only actually) find an unopened bottle of booze hidden in a hollow log

 

 

 

*** I'm hiding out from the tax man.

 

and you think disguising yourself as a pickle is going to help, have you seen a tax-man's face, they look like they are eating pickles for desert

 

Ok, no one would come after a cute little dog, would they?

 

hmmm now i just need a bun, yummy

 

Edited July 24, 2010 by t4e

[+mfamilee]

I read the OP's message out loud to my 11 year old daughter and then asked what she would do in this situation.

 

Her reply... "I would give the things back."

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

What I want to do is tell the guy too bad, my kids are happy with the musket balls, and the fake money. Nothing that was in the cache was original, all bought at a souvenir shop. (I think?? maybe the fake money is real??) The container had the BIG sticker of "this is a cache" and there was a business card sized explanation of "what geocaching is....(to "muggles that is?). Oh, and a fork, there was a fork thingy in there.

But the fact that I was FTF and did NOT receive something "great" really stinks....I may have to give back the things that I only wanted because my children were there. I would have taken something with or with out them, but.....I guess I want to make up excuses for NOT giving them back. Newbie or not, you don't do geocaching to only find the cache itself. I'm a nosey girl, I want to know what people put in them and take out too! Soooo what should I do??? Or are you all going to tell on me????

But wouldn't it be so much more fun to have a discussion with your kids about how "We made a mistake, and misunderstood what these things were in there for" and then how that mistake can be corrected, by placing the things back for the next finders?

[+dfx]

just re-reading the OP, and i noticed this...

 

Can someone please tell me if this is right, or am I crazy to think that I should have the placer of the cache tell my kids they have to give back what they so rightfully fought over....?????

i think the highlighted word is the keyword here. they didn't rightfully fight over it, they wrongfully fought over it. neither of them nor you knew it at that time, but that still doesn't make it right. the same even applies in any legal system: you're not excused from wrongdoing just because you didn't know it was wrong.

 

of course that also doesn't change the other points raised. the CO also made a mistake by not properly emphasizing his request in the cache listing. even if he did, he'd still have to expect the things to go missing eventually, or even the whole cache. it will be people who either don't know what they found (muggles), or who didn't read the cache listing properly, or who did and don't care or can't be bothered. it's up to you which category you want to belong to.

[+Don_J]

Lastly, "attacking" a cache w/o reading the page for whatever information may/may not be there IMO, is bad, bad and bad. Reading first avoids 'problems' as this, as well as many other possibles.

 

For what it's worth, I read about 99% of the pages of the caches I'm going after, and I would of missed those instructions. A several paragraph history lesson, with no line breaks, followed by the request to not swap out the swag?

 

Someone mentioned train wreck. I Agree!