What would be a difficulty level 5

[+MR57]

I made a cache that I thought was really tough. I gave it a 3 1/2 difficulty at first. I didn't think anybody would find it. The first people that looked found it. Has anybody actually found a level 5? If so what was it? My goal would be to make such a dream cache that it was so tough to find but right in front of you. Like in your face but you can't figure it out. I know I hate it when I can't find cache. But I also hate the real easy ones like lampskirt stuff.

Edited July 19, 2010 by MR57

[+dfx]

difficulty is in the eye of the beer holder. i'm assuming you're talking about traditionals?

 

most D5 caches i've found had their difficulty in the puzzle, i.e. they weren't traditionals. two notable exceptions come to mind: one was inside an electrical box - a real one in a totally legit looking location, but it's been specifically placed there. you needed the right allen key to open it and to get to the cache. the second one was a cache inside a real rock in a real rock pile.

Edited July 19, 2010 by dfx

[+Chrysalides]

For a traditional to be 5 star difficulty, it would require special equipment to find. According to ClayJar's rating system : "Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment."

 

I've found only 1 traditional rated 5.0. It is a needle in haystack hide - a nano in a patch of bark. I found it with a metal detector

 

All the other 5 star difficulty I've done are puzzles.

 

Edit to add : you could create a PQ to get only difficulty 5 caches in your area and see what they're like.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Chrysalides

[+Mark+Karen]

There was one cache which was located in an area of very high radioactivity and you needed protective clothing to find it. But people did!

[+briansnat]

For a traditional to be 5 star difficulty, it would require special equipment to find. According to ClayJar's rating system : "Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment."

 

Specialized equipment isn't necessarily required. Note that it says OR.

 

To me a true difficulty 5 will take at minimum, several days for most people to find. It will have some element that is an extreme challenge, whether a very difficult puzzle or a unique hiding method or camo. The logs will be mostly DNFs and the few Found Its will have done so only after putting in a lot of time.

 

I've seen a lot of difficulty 5 caches. According to my profile I've found two. They were so unremarkable that I don't remember what they were. That is not a difficulty 5. I suspect there are very few true difficulty 5 caches out there.

Edited July 19, 2010 by briansnat

[+Ike 13]

The most common level 5 difficulty is a needle in a haystack type hide for a traditional. Puzzle and multi caches can easily be level 5.

 

I really don't want to say how the one remarkable level 5 traditional I have found is hidden. Very clever.

[+Kit Fox]

The closest I've come to Five Star difficulty (physical hide), was a fake ivy leaf, in a sea of ivy, and trees.

 

The majority of camouflaged caches aren't true fives. The last time I debated what constitutes a five star difficulty, I used my previous answer describing the difficulty ascending Mount Everest.

 

**** Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

 

Most climbers require about four days to ascend Mount Everest from Base Camp (It takes 8-10 days to reach Everest Base Camp). The fastest ascent from the north side is held by Hans Kammerlander of Italy and took him 16 hours and 45 minutes from Base Camp. The fastest ascent from the South took just under 11 hours and was accomplished by Lakba Gelu Sherpa. Babu Chiri Sherpa, who was at the summit for 21.5 hours, holds the record for the most time spent on top of Everest. However, people typically spend about an hour at the top on average.

 

Besides the time requirement, and the special equipment required, experience / knowledge in Mountaineering, and the use of specialized equipment is also required.

[+Chokecherry]

The Mt. Everest example you give sounds like 5 star terrain not a 5 star difficulty.

 

Now if you get to the top of everest and are looking for a nano stuck in a rock then you might have a 5 star difficulty as well.

[+redsox_mark]

A couple of points:

 

1. As Terrain has it's own rating, many people's interpretation is that Difficulty has nothing to do with Terrain. So in the Mt. Everest example, even though you need specialist equipment, knowledge, etc, to get there in the first place; if the find is easy once you finally reach GZ, then it's not a 5 difficulty. The Clayjar system seems to support this; if you answer every question in the most extreme way - needs special equipment, overnight stay, etc, but select "Cache is in plain sight or location is fairly obvious", it comes out as 1/5. Now having said all that, I tend to take a broader definition, and I think any cache on Everest is "difficult" because the overall experience is difficult.

 

2. I'm not an extreme cacher, but I do like to challenge myself from time to time. I've found three difficulty 5 caches. 2 of them were easy but got Difficulty 5 on a "technicality" - i.e. they needed a wifi capable device to solve a puzzle. But once using such a device, the puzzle was easy. A wifi capable device is not standard equipment in a caching bag, but they are pretty common these days. The other difficulty 5 one required you to find 2 different keychains which contain partial coordinates; that was truly difficult as the keychains were not trackables, so you have no way of knowing where they are. Took several weeks of looking out for them before I found them.

 

3. I think 5 difficulty for a traditional is hard to do, unless you make it a needle in the haystack hide (which I personally would not find fun). But I'm sure it can be done (haven't come across one yet myself).

[+DragonsWest]

I made a cache that I thought was really tough. I gave it a 3 1/2 difficulty at first. I didn't think anybody would find it. The first people that looked found it. Has anybody actually found a level 5? If so what was it? My goal would be to make such a dream cache that it was so tough to find but right in front of you. Like in your face but you can't figure it out. I know I hate it when I can't find cache. But I also hate the real easy ones like lampskirt stuff.

 

I have a hide I've classed as 3. It has more DNFs than finds and admittedly it's a sneaky hide, but I can't see giving it more than a 3. I think 4 and up should be reserved for extremely difficult to retrieve and/or requiring special tool or mechanical puzzle solving (or mechanical reasoning as the called it on my school aptitude test.)

 

I've found a few which were classed as 3 or 4 which were no more difficult than a magnetic container hidden in the end of a pipe. This is why I take the "Well Rounded Cacher Challenge" with a grain of salt. Look for caches hidden by people who think an LPC is the epitome of evil and you'll have your challenge sorted in short order.

 

I quietly groan every time I approach a LPC, though sometimes they are in the midst of a mugglefest, to up the difficulty (or at least perceived discomfort to be observed peeking under a lamp post skirt by the uninitiated) and sometimes, sometimes they have a guardian! (shiver)

 

[+Panther&Pine]

 

I have a hide I've classed as 3. It has more DNFs than finds and admittedly it's a sneaky hide, but I can't see giving it more than a 3. I think 4 and up should be reserved for extremely difficult to retrieve and/or requiring special tool or mechanical puzzle solving (or mechanical reasoning as the called it on my school aptitude test.)

 

I've found a few which were classed as 3 or 4 which were no more difficult than a magnetic container hidden in the end of a pipe. This is why I take the "Well Rounded Cacher Challenge" with a grain of salt. Look for caches hidden by people who think an LPC is the epitome of evil and you'll have your challenge sorted in short order.

 

I quietly groan every time I approach a LPC, though sometimes they are in the midst of a mugglefest, to up the difficulty (or at least perceived discomfort to be observed peeking under a lamp post skirt by the uninitiated) and sometimes, sometimes they have a guardian! (shiver)

 

 

What would you count this one as? GC26ARG

[+Castle Mischief]

 

Fish. It's what's for dinner?

[+DragonsWest]

What would you count this one as? GC26ARG

 

Considering they're giving you a lot of pointers in the right direction I think the puzzle is fair, particularly for someone who has no prior knowledge of how an Enigma Machine works (probably much lower for someone who has already done these or knows where the tools are to solve it.) I have the solution for an Enigma cache in Santa Cruz, CA, but it's currently inactive while some remodeling is taking place. Can't say what the container identification and retrieval are, though.

 

I'm certain there are a few Enigma coded puzzles where you have no wheels, nothing, to get you started.

 

There are Enigma solvers on the internet. Assuming the coordinates are numbers spelled out, it's only a matter of CPU cycles to break that code.

[+Kit Fox]

The Mt. Everest example you give sounds like 5 star terrain not a 5 star difficulty.

 

Now if you get to the top of everest and are looking for a nano stuck in a rock then you might have a 5 star difficulty as well.

 

The very description of a 5 star difficulty hide:

 

***** Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

 

Re-read the requirements for Everest, and then tell me how many "skirt-lifter" geocachers have the necessary training to find a cache on top.

[+Panther&Pine]

What would you count this one as? GC26ARG

 

Considering they're giving you a lot of pointers in the right direction I think the puzzle is fair, particularly for someone who has no prior knowledge of how an Enigma Machine works (probably much lower for someone who has already done these or knows where the tools are to solve it.) I have the solution for an Enigma cache in Santa Cruz, CA, but it's currently inactive while some remodeling is taking place. Can't say what the container identification and retrieval are, though.

 

I'm certain there are a few Enigma coded puzzles where you have no wheels, nothing, to get you started.

 

There are Enigma solvers on the internet. Assuming the coordinates are numbers spelled out, it's only a matter of CPU cycles to break that code.

 

I wasn't thinking it was unfair, I was just curious as to what another region would consider it. Jake is known around here for some good (clever) hides. We solved it in a day and a bit, finding it took a few trips but not more then 4 hours all together to find the darn thing (of course since there was no coordinante checker we thought we where totally off.... nope right on the cache).

[+niraD]

I think the 5-star difficulty multi-cache and mystery/puzzle caches I've found have been rated fairly. Without the required knowledge, software, or equipment, you couldn't interpret the information at stage 1 of the multi, and you couldn't solve the puzzles. (The knowledge, software, or equipment didn't solve the puzzles for you; they just gave you access to the puzzles, enabling you to solve them.)

 

I think the 5-star difficulty traditional cache I found was overrated. The equipment needed was just a regular flashlight or headlamp, in an area where most people wouldn't have them handy (a park open only during daylight hours).

 

I've heard of a 5-star difficulty traditional cache where the difficulty was based on having specialized equipment and skills (lock picks and the skill to use them) to open a padlock for which there was no key.

[+DragonsWest]

I think the 5-star difficulty multi-cache and mystery/puzzle caches I've found have been rated fairly. Without the required knowledge, software, or equipment, you couldn't interpret the information at stage 1 of the multi, and you couldn't solve the puzzles. (The knowledge, software, or equipment didn't solve the puzzles for you; they just gave you access to the puzzles, enabling you to solve them.)

 

I think the 5-star difficulty traditional cache I found was overrated. The equipment needed was just a regular flashlight or headlamp, in an area where most people wouldn't have them handy (a park open only during daylight hours).

 

I've heard of a 5-star difficulty traditional cache where the difficulty was based on having specialized equipment and skills (lock picks and the skill to use them) to open a padlock for which there was no key.

 

One of our favorite 5 star caches in the SF Bay Area is Venonium 263 (which appears muggled at the present time ) Probably one of the easier 5 star caches, unless you don't know how to get started

 

Easy 5 star terrains are the kayaking caches around Port of Redwood City (if you can kayak, these are a breeze.)

 

Most grueling 5 star terrain I have done was South Kaibab to Bright Angel, yet one of the most rewarding. I was doing the hike anyway, but I thought, "this is what geocaching is all about, getting out and having fun."

 

I could see adding a 6th star or other indicator for Extreme terrain caches, though I generally assumed 5 should be those and something like a Kayak or other boat is really a 4 (or less.) A true 5/5 would be a large ammo box full of 1,000 Bison tubes (999 with taunts, 1 with log) at the top of Mt. Everest.

[+pamlicojack]

I see a lot of 5-star caches near my home but they're all on islands in a couple of nearby rivers that can only be access via kayak or canoe. If they were on the mainland, I'm sure they would be a lot less difficult...

[+DragonsWest]

I see a lot of 5-star caches near my home but they're all on islands in a couple of nearby rivers that can only be access via kayak or canoe. If they were on the mainland, I'm sure they would be a lot less difficult...

 

Now imagine someone putting a Monkey Puzzle or Evil Hide™ on the island and they could have a 5/5.

[+Andromeda321]

I was the FTF on a cache around here that wasn't found for months and thus upped to five star difficulty (it had originally been a 4 I think), in short a field of stones near a Wal Mart and one had a film can under it. Originally posted with no hints either.

[+Dread_Pirate_Bruce]

A needle in a haystack may be a "5" difficulty, but I personally consider it a lame hide. It is just a matter of looking at every stone or doing a grid search on the beach.

 

My vision of a difficulty "5" hide: A fake pen on a desk in an office at the Department of Homeland Security.

[+thedeadpirate]

A needle in a haystack may be a "5" difficulty, but I personally consider it a lame hide. It is just a matter of looking at every stone or doing a grid search on the beach.

 

My vision of a difficulty "5" hide: A fake pen on a desk in an office at the Department of Homeland Security.

 

Or a nano slapped to the side of the space ship at Area 51.

 

[+MR57]

Yes I am talking about traditionals. Nothing to do with terrain. I'm not talking needle in a haystack. There isn't much thought there. Puttinng one rock in a million isn't clever. It has to be something like David Blaine the magician would come up with. Something bizzare. Yeah puzzles are tough but I'm talking about fooling the eye I guess. I have heard some good ones. Thanks for great comments.

[+TerraViators]

A needle in a haystack may be a "5" difficulty, but I personally consider it a lame hide. It is just a matter of looking at every stone or doing a grid search on the beach.

 

My vision of a difficulty "5" hide: A fake pen on a desk in an office at the Department of Homeland Security.

LOL