What kind of mess is this one (Mount Magazine Ark)

[+LSUFan]

I didn't want to hijack another thread with this one, but was wanting everyone's opinion on what has happened here.

 

NOW, if you want to read about the wrong mark being logged, then others claiming the wrong mark is the right mark....and still others claiming the right mark has been replaced by the wrong mark.....then check this one out that I was scoping for my vacation trip in a few months.

 

The posted pics show the right mark sometimes, and some show the wrong mark.

 

I read on the datasheet where two geocachers stated the station has been moved, but they still reported it as "good".

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=FG1888

 

What is ya's take on all this? It's a doozy

Edited July 19, 2010 by LSUFan

[Bill93]

Sounds like the typical mess when there is a hard-to-find mark somewhere near a tourist stop. Anything that looks suspicious gets reported as the mark, even when somebody has previously posted a picture of the correct disk as in this case.

 

If you go looking, be prepared to find the RMs and measure to where MAG is supposed to be, and tell us what you find there and how far off of that the other disk is.

 

One log suggests MAG was moved and replaced by the 1964 disk, but gives no measurements to support that conclusion. The story about it being moved in 2003 could be true, but if so the other disk was already in place.

[+secondgunman]

I only live like 90 minutes from there, but have never actually hiked up to the top. I usually stay near the lodge where the rock climbing is better..... I may have to run up there sometime soon while I'm still unemployed. Might as well have some fun while I'm not working!

[+Ashallond]

Here's what happened. The original BM was moved (the boulder it was attached to) to make way for a state map of Arkansas. They reset a new BM in that same position in the center of the map.

 

The boulder with the original BM has been moved apparently off to the side just into the woods, as such NO ONE has posted a reference picture as to where the boulder is now with respect to the sign and the state map.

[kayakbird]

The 1935 crew left it kind of open ended, but it sure reads that the surface mark was found displaced in 1959; and that the underground mark an RM disk, was there? That is the one you need a picture of to claim a FOUND - otherwise it is NOT FOUND. MEL

[+Black Dog Trackers]

I wonder why they thought MAG should be moved.

 

Unfortunately, all Found logs of MAG and all Found logs or 43T are wrong.

 

MAG is out of position (destroyed) and 43T is not a find of FG1888.

[+LSUFan]

I wonder why they thought MAG should be moved.

 

Unfortunately, all Found logs of MAG and all Found logs or 43T are wrong.

 

MAG is out of position (destroyed) and 43T is not a find of FG1888.

 

That's also what I was thinking, BDT. I'm trying to plan a trip that way in September to visit family who are all from Clarksville just north of here. I will try to stop by there and take some better reference pics, unless maybe Secondgunman or Asholland want to go by, since they live a lot closer. It's worth going, just to visit the highest point in Arkansas.

 

I have a feeling, that no matter what you post on the gc.com page for this trying to explain the truth, that others are going to continue to log it as a find.

 

As always, many thanks to everyone for their advice.

Edited July 27, 2010 by LSUFan

[+Ashallond]

I do plan to go there at some point because

 

a. It's my state's high point.

b. I do want to find MAG, even in it's displaced status

c. There's a parkcache at that park I've not gotten.

 

The boulder was moved to make way for that stone state map.

 

Genius idea.

 

Anyway, LSUfan, let me know if you come near Fort Smith....love to meet ya.

[+secondgunman]

Assuming my plans don't change again between now and then, I'm going up to Magazine next Thursday, Aug 5th. Is there anything anyone would like me to look at? I'm planning on getting coords for MAG (if I can find it), 43T, MAG RM1, and MAG RM2. I'll also get distance and bearing with a compass and tape for MAG/RM1/RM2 and for 43T/RM1/RM2 just for good measure.

[+LSUFan]

Assuming my plans don't change again between now and then, I'm going up to Magazine next Thursday, Aug 5th. Is there anything anyone would like me to look at? I'm planning on getting coords for MAG (if I can find it), 43T, MAG RM1, and MAG RM2. I'll also get distance and bearing with a compass and tape for MAG/RM1/RM2 and for 43T/RM1/RM2 just for good measure.

 

Sounds great. If you will, try to take a lot of scale pictures trying to show where everything is located.

 

Make sure to stop off at the gift shop there. They have a patch of the second benchmark, you can get. That's how this whole thing started for me. A friend was showing me the patch (pic below) he got when he visited, and I tried to look it up to see if it was in the NGS database.

 

Picture of patch

 

I had another bud tell me that they also sell a walking stick medallion, of the benchmark.

Edited July 28, 2010 by LSUFan

[+Ashallond]

I tossed a note in the two Arkansas groups that i am part of to see if any of the BM experts on thre remembers when they went last.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Challenge: Who can do the first correct log for FG1888?

 

No one has yet!

 

(There are about 4 post-a-note logs that are at least not incorrect.)

[glorkar]

Even though nobody has logged it as destroyed, at least 5 people have found the correct mark. You gotta give them props for that.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

glorkar -

 

Yes, good point. Props to Boomer-Scavengers, thenaturenerd, GeoTrailblazer, OEnavigators, and Cardinal for finding the marker. I haven't been there but I gather it isn't obvious, especially since it has been sidelined somewhere.

[+secondgunman]

OK. I meant to get to Magazine yesterday, but life got in the way.

 

Full details, with pictures, can now be found at FG1888

 

I managed to find 43T, MAG RM1, and the elusive Station MAG. I did not, however, find MAG RM2.

 

43T is obvious. If you can't find it, you probably need a new hobby.

 

MAG RM1 is, as Cardinal has posted, 68' from 43T. I'll add that it's down an obvious trail to the east of NE Arkansas on the map.

 

I'm sorry, but I didn't find MAG RM2. It was in brush dense enough that I just wasn't comfortable. I'm not the best at picking out poison ivy/oak, and I just didn't want to risk it. I talked with the park interpreter and he said that he saw it in the spring and it was in place and in good condition.

 

Now for the fun one. Station MAG is present, it's in excellent condition, and it's hiding in plain sight. It's under the boulder that's just to the left of the Signal Hill sign and slightly down the trail to the lodge. It's "hidden" on the underside of the rock. Yup, you have to roll the rock on its side to find the mark. Before anyone asks.....no, I didn't find that one on my own. Special thanks go out to the park interpreter for telling me where to look.

 

Because the mark is "hidden", I have to wonder if the park staff want it being disturbed regularly. For that reason, I'm forced to wonder if describing it here is the best idea. I don't have a problem with it personally, so long as people are responsible about it and return everything to the condition in which they found it.....but in my experience, people aren't that considerate. Any thoughts?

[+LSUFan]

Great report, Secondgunman. I appreciate you going to the trouble for this. Hope you had a good time.

 

I had been thinking the same thing, about someone maybe vandalizing, or taking the real MAG benchmark.

 

Since it is technically destroyed, and just laying there....I would hope the Arkansas State Parks (with NGS approval) would at least take the bm and it's setting down to their interpretive center (if they have one), or place it in a display case in the gift shop. This way it would be protected, but still viewable for the general public, since it is indeed part of the history of Magazine Mountain.

 

What are other's opinions on this situation, and if we should suggest anything at all to the park? Maybe Dave or George have a recommendation. I am going to be up there Labor Day Weekend.

Edited August 6, 2010 by LSUFan

[kayakbird]

I may be flogging a dying horse here; but the underground was recovered in 1959:

 

FG1888 STATION RECOVERY (1959)

FG1888

FG1888''RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1959 (FAR)

FG1888''THE UNDERGROUND STATION MARK AND REFERENCE MARKS WERE RECOVERED

FG1888''AND FOUND IN GOOD CONDITION. THE ROCK, IN WHICH THE SURFACE

FG1888''STATION MARK WAS SET, HAS BEEN REMOVED AND WAS FOUND IN A

FG1888''TILTED POSITION ABOUT DIRECTLY OVER THE UNDERGROUND MARK.

FG1888''THE UNDERGROUND MARK IS A REFERENCE MARK DISK SET IN BEDROCK

FG1888''ABOUT 1 FOOT BELOW THE SURFACE AND IS STAMPED MAG 1928.

 

Hint: It just happens to be a RM disk that was substituted for a TRI disk (we have seen that before, haven't we!)

 

The station is not DESTROYED until there is proof that the underground mark is no longer down there in the bedrock. kayakbird

[glorkar]

Good point kayakbird. But it sounds like the surface mark cannot be reset due to the map that was built directly over the underground mark. I suppose in this instance, I would agree with removing the mark from the boulder and displaying it somewhere else. Maybe they could put a little info sign near the map telling the history of the MAG disk that used to reside there?

[+Ashallond]

Where the surface mark boulder was has been replaced with the 43T.

[+LSUFan]

Had some friends visiting Signal Hill today, and I warned them not to mistakenly log the benchmark in the mural as FG1888. This got me to wondering if it was still being logged incorrectly, after Secondgunman's lengthy explanation as to what has happened.

 

Yep, it is still being logged wrong.....as we probably all fully expected. Oh well, it makes for forum conversation.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=FG1888

[+Ashallond]

A lot of people in Arkansas also like to log Azimuths as the BM as well.

 

Found that out when I was hunting Nebo earlier this month.

[+LSUFan]

A lot of people in Arkansas also like to log Azimuths as the BM as well.

 

Found that out when I was hunting Nebo earlier this month.

 

LOL. It doesn't appear Nebo get's near the visitors as Mag does, but it's also not located at a publicized state high point either.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=FG1846

 

Even though ya couldn't find the station, the drive up Nebo is fun nonetheless with all those switchbacks.. I am planning to take the motosickle up it around next March to "truly" earn my 'two miles of wild' patch I got from the gift shop there a few years back when were staying nearby at Magazine Mountain.

[+Ashallond]

well, when you come up this way, send me or secondgunman a note. we might come visit. We're just over in Fort Smith.