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Numbers count


Panther&Pine

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I kind of like seeing the count. It allows me to assign a bit of experience level to the cacher and helps me to interpret comments in thier log(s).

 

For example, if a cacher with 3000 finds says my cache is missing, I give it more credence than a cacher with 17 finds saying the same thing.

 

I know it doesn't say much - but I still find it important.

 

Your post describes exactly my opinion of the numbers game.

 

As of right now, I have ~185 finds. Compare my count to those 1000+ guys, and I am a newbie (numbers only).

What my numbers don't tell you is;

1. outside of the few urban caches, most caches in this town are 3/3 or greater, requiring some some off-road travel

2. ~200 caches available within 30km radius

3. Most of my finds are done via mountain bike, hiking boots, or kayak

4. Been caching for ~3 years

5. Done a couple caches in a few different states and provinces

6. I've a geocahing/Groundspeak retailer

7. The nearest power trail is ~400km from here.

8. Hosted, Co-hosted or a vendor and a number of GC events

In short, my numbers to any local geocacher indicates I have been around. To most on here, when comparing to the 1000+ guys, I am a third year newbie.

 

Using these numbers to judge experience is not a great idea. Take these numbers, and the comments posted on that DNF may be a better idea.

Even at that, if I have a DNF by a newbie, in many cases (if time permits), I'll offer to meet up with them and go visit the cache together. They'll get the find, I get a cache maintainance, and respect is earned all around.

 

Now take the find count completely away, and what does that tell you about the person? Nothing

 

It's a single metric - a complete picture it does not provide but it does give "baseline" metric for a quick glance. Also the newb vs experience argument for showing numbers tends to be the person with under 10 finds versus the 1000 people. I don't know many people around here that all a person with 185 finds a "newb".

 

Context is everything. Where the geocache is located will skew interpretation of the find numbers. In Timmins, I would venture to guess most cachers are below 5000 finds. In Toronto it's so common now that you get a shoulder shrug for pronouncing you've got 5000 finds.

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I cache with my real name. If any wants to steal my identity and pay off all my college loans that's fine with me. :rolleyes:

 

It doesn't really matter to me. I barely look at it. I know the local cachers, and if an unfamiliar name pops up I look at their Profile pages, and what caches they've found. This is where stats (if the have them) are very helpful. I can see how long they've been caching , average finds, average D/T ratings, etc. If they do not have stats posted I will look at their caches page and see good info there.

 

And that's my question. If GS decides to give the option of hiding the find count on the log, would you also want them to hide the geocaches tab of your profile page?

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I cache with my real name. If any wants to steal my identity and pay off all my college loans that's fine with me. :rolleyes:

 

It doesn't really matter to me. I barely look at it. I know the local cachers, and if an unfamiliar name pops up I look at their Profile pages, and what caches they've found. This is where stats (if the have them) are very helpful. I can see how long they've been caching , average finds, average D/T ratings, etc. If they do not have stats posted I will look at their caches page and see good info there.

 

And that's my question. If GS decides to give the option of hiding the find count on the log, would you also want them to hide the geocaches tab of your profile page?

 

No. I do not want GS to provide for users to hide their found counts for any purpose or under any condition whatsoever.

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Ok, I'm still a fairly new cacher, but how can you put more clout in someone who has a 3000+ count, than someone who has a lower count? Chances are that the guy with the extremely high count, 90% of his finds are on some lame power trail where it took less than 30 seconds to find the caches, while the guy with the lower count actually spent some time to find his caches. Shouldn't you look at the time the person has been caching, instead of the number?

 

When you throw power trails into the picture, the count has very little to do with the persons ability to actually find a cache.

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Ok, I'm still a fairly new cacher, but how can you put more clout in someone who has a 3000+ count, than someone who has a lower count? Chances are....
"Chances are?" The probability is over 50%? I think not.

I don't think you're getting my point. I could go out tomorrow to the ET highway and easily raise my stats by 1000 finds, would that make me a better cacher than an old timer that's been at this game for years and only has 800 finds? I don't think so, I'd still be a noob that occasionally has trouble finding an ammo can in the woods. The numbers really mean nothing when there are power trails that let you pad your stats with what amounts to finding 1000 LPCs in 24 hours. If power trails are your thing, that's cool, no harm no foul. That don't mean you're better at finding a cache then the next guy though.

 

I would be more impressed by someone who's only find is here GCB5D7, then by someone that has 2000 finds on the ET Highway or TOG.

 

Adding: For example, you been at this 8 years and have 4000 finds, there are people been doing it a lot less time and have just as many finds thanks to power trails. That don't mean they are better at it than you, does it?

Edited by EddieB606
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All I wanted to do was ask if any one else would want an option to hide their find count, and some how I ended up starting a debate about judging people by finds/time caching and all other kinds of stuff. -_-

 

That was not my intention. :unsure: Hope no body is mad at me now.

 

Never mind, just the forums for a hobby. NOT a life or death matter, no need for me to be sheepish for this.

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All I wanted to do was ask if any one else would want an option to hide their find count, and some how I ended up starting a debate about judging people by finds/time caching and all other kinds of stuff. -_-

 

That was not my intention. :unsure: Hope no body is mad at me now.

 

Never mind, just the forums for a hobby. NOT a life or death matter, no need for me to be sheepish for this.

 

Rarely will anyone just give you a yes/no answer when you ask a question. :o

 

Besides, debates are fun and usually enlightening.

Edited by GeoBain
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All I wanted to do was ask if any one else would want an option to hide their find count, and some how I ended up starting a debate about judging people by finds/time caching and all other kinds of stuff. -_-

 

That was not my intention. :unsure: Hope no body is mad at me now.

 

Never mind, just the forums for a hobby. NOT a life or death matter, no need for me to be sheepish for this.

 

Rarely will anyone just give you a yes/no answer when you ask a question. :o

 

Besides, debates are fun and usually enlightening.

Very true. I should know this by now.

:)

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Chances are that the guy with the extremely high count, 90% of his finds are on some lame power trail where it took less than 30 seconds to find the caches, while the guy with the lower count actually spent some time to find his caches. Shouldn't you look at the time the person has been caching, instead of the number?

 

Here's the thing about the find count. By itself it tells you nothing. Someone can easily get 1500-2000 a year in a cache rich area without power trails or sacrificing quality too much. The guy with 800 may have only done power trails and P&G's. The guy with 3000 could have been at it for 3 years doing a wide variety of caches. The number difference can be due to caching frequency (one can cache every weekend throughout the state, versus the other who caches every other weekend near home). It's also a lot easier to rack up finds when there's more than one person. All those reasons are why the find count is irrelevant.

 

As others have said the main thing they look at is if the cacher is below 100 finds. I don't get caught up in the number race at all. I like to keep track of where I am, but that's it. So I won't mind if GS gives users the ability to hide the find count from their logs.

 

Those in favor of hiding find counts: If GS decides to give the option of hiding the find count on the log, would you also want them to hide the geocaches tab of your profile page?

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All I wanted to do was ask if any one else would want an option to hide their find count, and some how I ended up starting a debate about judging people by finds/time caching and all other kinds of stuff. -_-

 

That was not my intention. :unsure: Hope no body is mad at me now.

 

Never mind, just the forums for a hobby. NOT a life or death matter, no need for me to be sheepish for this.

 

And this: "Hope no body is mad at me now." is your second mistake.

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I like seeing my find count just so I can keep track of how many caches I've found. I have non-caching friends that ask me all the time. Then they ask examples of how many caches other people have found. I don't live in a very cache rich area and there's some caches I just have no desire to do (a bunch along a trail system I don't much enjoy for example). I could do them to run up my numbers but I wouldn't get a lot of joy out of it so I don't.

 

Once in awhile I like to see cacher's profiles with low numbers and then just look to see where they started their caching adventures. Not judging them just liking to see how/where they got started. Or there was the time I used the number to determine what was the best way to help a friend find a cache. I would have phrased it different had they had lower numbers because they wouldn't have known what I was talking about.

 

It's just a number and a pretty meaningless one to boot.

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Chances are that the guy with the extremely high count, 90% of his finds are on some lame power trail where it took less than 30 seconds to find the caches, while the guy with the lower count actually spent some time to find his caches. Shouldn't you look at the time the person has been caching, instead of the number?

 

Here's the thing about the find count. By itself it tells you nothing. Someone can easily get 1500-2000 a year in a cache rich area without power trails or sacrificing quality too much. The guy with 800 may have only done power trails and P&G's. The guy with 3000 could have been at it for 3 years doing a wide variety of caches. The number difference can be due to caching frequency (one can cache every weekend throughout the state, versus the other who caches every other weekend near home). It's also a lot easier to rack up finds when there's more than one person. All those reasons are why the find count is irrelevant.

 

As others have said the main thing they look at is if the cacher is below 100 finds. I don't get caught up in the number race at all. I like to keep track of where I am, but that's it. So I won't mind if GS gives users the ability to hide the find count from their logs.

 

Those in favor of hiding find counts: If GS decides to give the option of hiding the find count on the log, would you also want them to hide the geocaches tab of your profile page?

 

Not really, from a coding perspective that is a little more difficult. (again don't know anything about PHP so some one correct me if this is not true in PHP).

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Chances are that the guy with the extremely high count, 90% of his finds are on some lame power trail where it took less than 30 seconds to find the caches, while the guy with the lower count actually spent some time to find his caches. Shouldn't you look at the time the person has been caching, instead of the number?

 

Here's the thing about the find count. By itself it tells you nothing. Someone can easily get 1500-2000 a year in a cache rich area without power trails or sacrificing quality too much. The guy with 800 may have only done power trails and P&G's. The guy with 3000 could have been at it for 3 years doing a wide variety of caches. The number difference can be due to caching frequency (one can cache every weekend throughout the state, versus the other who caches every other weekend near home). It's also a lot easier to rack up finds when there's more than one person. All those reasons are why the find count is irrelevant.

 

As others have said the main thing they look at is if the cacher is below 100 finds. I don't get caught up in the number race at all. I like to keep track of where I am, but that's it. So I won't mind if GS gives users the ability to hide the find count from their logs.

 

Those in favor of hiding find counts: If GS decides to give the option of hiding the find count on the log, would you also want them to hide the geocaches tab of your profile page?

Totally in agreement about about the numbers being irrelevant. I'm not real impressed by a high number count. I'm more impressed by the type of caches or the length of time someone's been doing this.

 

Although lately with my GF going through breast cancer treatment, we haven't been able to do any caches that require much walking, I have in the pass used the cache tab on others profiles. There are a couple cachers in my area, one in particular, that have some great hides and I know they search out some of the best caches in the area, so I have used their page for recommendations. I would hate to see them hide that, but I'm for having the ability to do so. It should be the cachers decision to do it. It is possible to do already, if you know how. I've seen a blue buffed cacher's profile on here that has it hidden. I won't hide mine, not because I seek anyone's approval, I really don't care what anyone thinks about me :unsure:-_- , I just like being able the see my stats page on my profile.

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Context is everything. Where the geocache is located will skew interpretation of the find numbers. In Timmins, I would venture to guess most cachers are below 5000 finds. In Toronto it's so common now that you get a shoulder shrug for pronouncing you've got 5000 finds.

 

So true. It also is a factor when people started playing the game. I remember when 500 or 1000 caches was huge, now people easily do that in their first year.

 

As for the topic at hand, I still don't see any reason for hiding the Find counts. I don't play the numbers game and having my Find count displayed doesn't change that in any way. Others may be judging me based on my Find total but that doesn't change my enjoyment of the game in any way.

 

I file it in the "there must be better things to spend resources on" bin.

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I suppose I want to throw my two cents in as well here...

 

I look at the numbers for myself. My own numbers tell me where I'm at, and how far until I get to where I want to be. What kind of caches I grab, when I grab them, whether I power trail or not, or whether I go for only the tough ones should mean NOTHING to anyone. Period. That said, I do tend to make a judgment based on numbers. If someone has a couple of dozen finds, I pretty much assume they are a newbie at the game. Even if your finds are all long hikes to remote areas, anything under about a 100 finds means you are pretty likely to be inexperienced. There are so many ways to cleverly hide geocaches that you *have* to go on hundreds to become experienced in all of them. I just made 1000 finds recently. I've only just begun to feel that I'm getting pretty good at this game - not because I have 1,000 FINDS, but because it took a lot of searching and discovery and work to make those finds, and many of them were quite difficult and clever. Inexperience doesn't = bad person.

 

Personally, numbers mean what they mean to me, and I don't care what anyone else thinks. It seems a deep insecurity to me to want to hide something about your find count. It almost seems like that person is saying, "You aren't good enough to see my find count, so I'm not going to show it to you." Why? Who really cares? The interesting thing to me is that it's like by hiding your count, you really DO care what people think about it, and thus you are more wrapped up in the numbers game than anyone you accuse of the same.

 

So with all of this rambling I've done, I'll say this... I enjoy comparing my stats to others. It doesn't give me a secret sense of superiority. It doesn't mean that I'm better than you. It DOES mean that I've found more caches than you, but so what? You don't know me, I don't know you, and if we did, I bet we'd be friends anyway, so what's to worry about? I think that your list of finds really adds character to you. And no, I don't mean the kind of character certain people whine about by going on power trails, or "tough" finds, or any of that. I mean I get to look at my fellow local cachers and see their finds and think to myself, "Yeah, I remember going for that cache too! That was a bitch!"

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