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What do do about cache near active turkey nest?


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Today I was notified about a new cache, GC2BF0R, trying to get the FTF I raced out to where it was, upon entering the field, a large turkey came out of the tall grass and ran towards some brush about 50 yards away. My wife realized that there were 6-8 eggs in a nest, and that it was obviously an active turkey nest. We turned around trying not to disturb the nest and I logged it as a DNF with a suggestion to relocate the cache as it's too near the nest. Obviously, this is for the safety of fellow cachers as well as for the nest.

One of the three individuals that hid the cache stated that there is no way that eggs will be hatching this late. This is false, as turkeys lay from early spring to early summer, a span of about 4 months and generally they take 28-30 days to hatch. We did not spot this turkey until my wife literally stepped on it, which means she is very protective of the nest, yet another indication that it is an active nest.

I need to know what I can do, or who I can report the cache to. Obviously, the benefits do not outweigh the consequences of this cache.

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Today I was notified about a new cache, GC2BF0R, trying to get the FTF I raced out to where it was, upon entering the field, a large turkey came out of the tall grass and ran towards some brush about 50 yards away. My wife realized that there were 6-8 eggs in a nest, and that it was obviously an active turkey nest. We turned around trying not to disturb the nest and I logged it as a DNF with a suggestion to relocate the cache as it's too near the nest. Obviously, this is for the safety of fellow cachers as well as for the nest.

One of the three individuals that hid the cache stated that there is no way that eggs will be hatching this late. This is false, as turkeys lay from early spring to early summer, a span of about 4 months and generally they take 28-30 days to hatch. We did not spot this turkey until my wife literally stepped on it, which means she is very protective of the nest, yet another indication that it is an active nest.

I need to know what I can do, or who I can report the cache to. Obviously, the benefits do not outweigh the consequences of this cache.

 

Contact the reviewer who pushed the "publish" button.

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Today I was notified about a new cache, GC2BF0R, trying to get the FTF I raced out to where it was, upon entering the field, a large turkey came out of the tall grass and ran towards some brush about 50 yards away. My wife realized that there were 6-8 eggs in a nest, and that it was obviously an active turkey nest. We turned around trying not to disturb the nest and I logged it as a DNF with a suggestion to relocate the cache as it's too near the nest. Obviously, this is for the safety of fellow cachers as well as for the nest.

One of the three individuals that hid the cache stated that there is no way that eggs will be hatching this late. This is false, as turkeys lay from early spring to early summer, a span of about 4 months and generally they take 28-30 days to hatch. We did not spot this turkey until my wife literally stepped on it, which means she is very protective of the nest, yet another indication that it is an active nest.

I need to know what I can do, or who I can report the cache to. Obviously, the benefits do not outweigh the consequences of this cache.

 

Contact the reviewer who pushed the "publish" button.

Absolutely do what Bittsen said. I would hate to see a cache interfere with an active nest. Very surprised that the CO is being negligent with interfering with nature. That's not cool!

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Make a "needs arcived" log.

 

I don't think there is a need for that. The cache can be temporarily disabled until the nest is empty. If the owner refuses to do it then contacting the reviewer who published it is the best alternative.

 

Actually, I can't completely disagree with using the NA Log in this situation. If the Publishing Reviewer has escaped is on vacation or something, the response could be a bit slower. Using the NA log with an explanation about the circumstances would alert other Reviewers via a Notification, or at least a Reviewer covering the area.

 

My 0.02

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Well I contacted the publisher, and quite frankly I was appalled by the response:

 

Unfortunately, turkeys are not migratory and are not protected by the same law that protects songbirds, swallows, waterfowl and other species (the Migratory Birds Treaty Act of 1918).  Quite frankly, given that the location is right on a street corner, it is unlikely that geocachers will be the only folks to encroach on this nest.  (Perhaps this particular bird is learning a lesson in "where to build a nest".)  While I would not choose to hide or hunt this cache (or any other street corner cache for that matter), I don't believe this cache violates the guidelines of the site, so you will need to plead your case to the owner of the cache. For future reference, you should also know that there is no "safety" guideline for placing caches.  Those guidelines which appear to be about safety, such as the railroad guideline, are really about trespassing.  There are many caches out there that involve dangerous activities, including rock climbing, tree climbing, diving, boating, etc., so you should always be aware of the terrain and other hazards associated with the cache location.  If you feel a hide is too dangerous for you to retrieve, just go on to the next one.  We aren't hear to protect you from the environment, so be sure to keep your own safety in mind as you seek caches.  We want you around for a long time, but we can't protect you.

 

Now I'm not sure what to do. 

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Why are you appalled? Which guideline do you think has been violated? That is what the volunteer reviewers go by when reviewing and publishing a cache. Included in those guidelines is the phrase "all local laws apply". Sounds like this reviewer did their homework and published the cache no matter what their personal feelings were. Wouldn't you want them to apply the same standards to your hides?

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:) If the cache location bothers you then don't go back to it. It's really that simple. To want the cache removed just because of a stupid bird is dumb in my opinion. A temporary heads-up on the cache page is all that is needed just to be aware that a large bird may attack you. Once the eggs have hatched the vermin will be on their way and all will be well.

 

We, as a farm family, do what we can to provide cover and foodsources for songbirds. Turkeys are not endangered. There is a hunting season for them. We live in IL and, as farmers, we have more problems with turkeys that we ever have with deer. Deer don't reproduced anywhere near as fast as turkeys do nor do deer come out and follow our planter through the field picking out the seeds from each furrow! Personally I curse the idiot who wanted to release these things back "into their native area".

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Well I contacted the publisher, and quite frankly I was appalled by the response:

 

Unfortunately, turkeys are not migratory and are not protected by the same law that protects songbirds, swallows, waterfowl and other species (the Migratory Birds Treaty Act of 1918).  Quite frankly, given that the location is right on a street corner, it is unlikely that geocachers will be the only folks to encroach on this nest.  (Perhaps this particular bird is learning a lesson in "where to build a nest".)  While I would not choose to hide or hunt this cache (or any other street corner cache for that matter), I don't believe this cache violates the guidelines of the site, so you will need to plead your case to the owner of the cache. For future reference, you should also know that there is no "safety" guideline for placing caches.  Those guidelines which appear to be about safety, such as the railroad guideline, are really about trespassing.  There are many caches out there that involve dangerous activities, including rock climbing, tree climbing, diving, boating, etc., so you should always be aware of the terrain and other hazards associated with the cache location.  If you feel a hide is too dangerous for you to retrieve, just go on to the next one.  We aren't hear to protect you from the environment, so be sure to keep your own safety in mind as you seek caches.  We want you around for a long time, but we can't protect you.

 

Now I'm not sure what to do. 

 

Stop posting about it would be my first reaction. Unless you enjoy being ridiculed and dismissed.

Contact local authorities or organizations if it is that important to you.

Edited by Team Cotati
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if the coordinates are even close the cache is at a street corner. Any turkey nesting there has become accustomed to traffic. I'd simply add a note to the cache page and if you want add a strip of caution tape to guide people around the nest until they hatch

Edited by edscott
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several options:

 

1. trade up.... you might want to get an emu for that.

2. do what you do when there is a nest of mosquitoes (or fire ants) at a cache.

3. do what you'd do if there was a copperhead living in the same hole.

4. ask the turkeys if they got permission to be on that property and explain geocaching to them - you might just convert them.

 

:)

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It looks to me that I have seen more support then ridicule on this one. Its not like the cache is on a corner street downtown, its in a rural development property. Obviously I'm not going back to the cache, I was just trying to have the cache relocated away from the nest or a warning that there is an active nest by the cache. When I made the initial log I wrote in about the nest. I've done all that I can. Thanks for all the helpful tips and rather humorous pictures and tracking bugs!

 

Happy caching!

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The eggs will hatch in about 21 days from the time they are laid. At that point the nest will be abandoned and the poults will be free ranging. Do nothing.

 

"The eggs will hatch in about 21 days from the time they are laid"

 

Yeah, so long as no one accidentally drops an ammo can on them.

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I think you were right to be concerned and to write about it; in my opinion we cachers do not want to come across as callous about nature, lest we play right into the hands of those cache maggots who remove caches because of them being in "environmentally sensitive" places.

 

It's also true that the bird's nest will be a temporary hazard, and you've done what a responsible person should do by mentioning it in your log so that others who visit will be forewarned, same as if it had been a wasp's nest or a venomous snake you found near GZ.

 

To read about another cache near a bird's next, see GCT4QZ. Apparently cachers are enjoying peeking at the babies, and reading back through past logs, mama bird has nested in the same place before!

 

--Q

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The eggs will hatch in about 21 days from the time they are laid. At that point the nest will be abandoned and the poults will be free ranging. Do nothing.

 

"The eggs will hatch in about 21 days from the time they are laid"

 

Yeah, so long as no one accidentally drops an ammo can on them.

 

From 50 yards away? That ain't a drop.

 

Well when you take into account the accuracy error of the seeker AND the accuracy error of the finder's GPSR units and then factor in that only one of them might have had WAAS enabled, it is very likely that some goecacher, with a ammo can in his backpack could be directly over the nest. Then he bends over to 'get a better look', forgetting that he did not close the zipper on the backpack pouch wherein the ammo can rests and BOOM!! out pops the ammo can plopping right on top of mamma turkey with enough force to squish her down onto those unhatched eggs, turning them into a scrambled mess.

 

Be careful out there people, stuff happens.

Edited by Team Cotati
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I need to know what I can do, or who I can report the cache to. Obviously, the benefits do not outweigh the consequences of this cache.

I wasn't being flip or uncaring in my responses, I was just trying to make the point that turkey populations are in no danger and do not need to be protected.

 

In Iowa last year 11,893 turkey's were harvested by hunters just on Iowa Department of Natural Resources lands alone.

 

Wisconsin's turkey population is estimated to be 300,000 birds.

 

My take on putting info in the listing about a nearby turkey nest or roost is that it is going to get the bird eaten rather than avoided. :)

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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If it was me I would probably tell one of my friends who hunts about the turkey nest so he has some place to go during the season. Reap the rewards around holiday time when said turkey became dinner.

 

Caches end up around various water fowl nests here. Most people just look out for them and go on with their day. Can't really change what the wild life decides to do.

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Well I contacted the publisher, and quite frankly I was appalled by the response:

 

Now I'm not sure what to do. 

 

first, EDIT your post and remove the reply from the reviewer...email messages are private and confidential not to be copied and pasted in a public forum, you could have used your own words to explain the answer :)

 

as for the cache, looks like you have to let it be

 

i like wildlife too, and we canceled our search for a cache when we found a nest in the tree, later we found out was the wrong tree

however given the reply from the reviewer there is nothing more you can do

Edited by t4e
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Well I contacted the publisher, and quite frankly I was appalled by the response:

 

Now I'm not sure what to do. 

 

first, EDIT your post and remove the reply from the reviewer...email messages are private and confidential not to be copied and pasted in a public forum, you could have used your own words to explain the answer :)

Wrong. There is no expectation of privacy with email. You should expect that everything you post can and will be read by others.

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Well I contacted the publisher, and quite frankly I was appalled by the response:

 

Unfortunately, turkeys are not migratory and are not protected by the same law that protects songbirds, swallows, waterfowl and other species (the Migratory Birds Treaty Act of 1918). Quite frankly, given that the location is right on a street corner, it is unlikely that geocachers will be the only folks to encroach on this nest. (Perhaps this particular bird is learning a lesson in "where to build a nest".) While I would not choose to hide or hunt this cache (or any other street corner cache for that matter), I don't believe this cache violates the guidelines of the site, so you will need to plead your case to the owner of the cache. For future reference, you should also know that there is no "safety" guideline for placing caches. Those guidelines which appear to be about safety, such as the railroad guideline, are really about trespassing. There are many caches out there that involve dangerous activities, including rock climbing, tree climbing, diving, boating, etc., so you should always be aware of the terrain and other hazards associated with the cache location. If you feel a hide is too dangerous for you to retrieve, just go on to the next one. We aren't hear to protect you from the environment, so be sure to keep your own safety in mind as you seek caches. We want you around for a long time, but we can't protect you.

 

Now I'm not sure what to do.

Why would you be appalled by that? I think it is a perfectly sane and logical response.

 

I don't know how it is where you're from, but around here, urban turkeys have become a nuisance, if not a hazard. The police are called frequently. They harass kids (and adults) at bus stops. They cause car accidents. I love 'em, and am thrilled that we've been able to re-introduce them to the wild, but let's not go overboard, either.

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Well I contacted the publisher, and quite frankly I was appalled by the response:

 

Now I'm not sure what to do. 

 

first, EDIT your post and remove the reply from the reviewer...email messages are private and confidential not to be copied and pasted in a public forum, you could have used your own words to explain the answer :)

Wrong. There is no expectation of privacy with email. You should expect that everything you post can and will be read by others.

 

of course there is, you never read the privacy note at the end of the emails? its exactly the same as a letter, intended for personal and private communication

unless the owner gives you the right to "publish" their word you have no right to do so

 

don't confuse email with forum posting, big difference there

Edited by t4e
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of course there is, you never read the privacy note at the end of the emails? its exactly the same as a letter, intended for personal and private communication

unless the owner gives you the right to "publish" their word you have no right to do so

 

First do you know for a fact the reviewer requested privacy. I would think they expect everything they say to be made public.

 

Second just beacuse someone puts on the bottom of their email that it is private doesn't create any legal reason for you to adhere to it.

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As far as the turkeys go, if it were my cache, I'd at least post a note, and probably disable it until the birds were gone. All you can do is suggest this, though.

 

After reading the bit about "You can't post the reviewer's emails in the forums" goes, I was so sure there was a privacy statement at the end of emails I've gotten from reviewers, that I went into my archives and looked. I was, at the risk of breaking the very rule I was trying to back, going to paste the privacy statement into a quote.

 

I found no such statement in any of the communications I've had with reviewers.

 

It doesn't mean that it's cool to do, though.

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As far as the turkeys go, if it were my cache, I'd at least post a note, and probably disable it until the birds were gone. All you can do is suggest this, though.

 

I've seen a few caches 'temporarily unavailable' due to nesting vultures. But vultures are protected by migratory bird laws. Turkeys are not. If it were my cache, I would mark it unavailable until the turkeys moved on. (I like seeing wild turkeys!) But, then again, I've found lots of caches near bear cubs, fawns, mosquitoes, and other young animals. Not to mention the horrendous Canada geese! We would have to eliminate most caches to avoid disturbing young animals. Turkeys are not protected.

Note in the log that there are nesting turkeys nearby, and continue on with life.

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I've seen a few caches 'temporarily unavailable' due to nesting vultures. But vultures are protected by migratory bird laws. Turkeys are not. If it were my cache, I would mark it unavailable until the turkeys moved on. (I like seeing wild turkeys!) But, then again, I've found lots of caches near bear cubs, fawns, mosquitoes, and other young animals. Not to mention the horrendous Canada geese! We would have to eliminate most caches to avoid disturbing young animals. Turkeys are not protected.

Note in the log that there are nesting turkeys nearby, and continue on with life.

 

Those wouldn't happen to have been Turkey Vultures? LOL. To funny

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Second just beacuse someone puts on the bottom of their email that it is private doesn't create any legal reason for you to adhere to it.

 

with all due respect that is most most ignorant thing i have ever hear

 

you obviously have no concept of privacy laws

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Second just beacuse someone puts on the bottom of their email that it is private doesn't create any legal reason for you to adhere to it.

 

with all due respect that is most most ignorant thing i have ever hear

 

you obviously have no concept of privacy laws

With all due respect, if Walts Hunting was wrong, I'd sure love it if you would please cite your sources, because I believe that you are wrong. I don't believe that a footnote in an email is in any way legally binding.

 

 

Any attempt to argue with my position on this matter may be subject to legal action and may eventually result in my becoming independently wealthy at your expense.

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Second just beacuse someone puts on the bottom of their email that it is private doesn't create any legal reason for you to adhere to it.

with all due respect that is most most ignorant thing i have ever hear

 

you obviously have no concept of privacy laws

With all due respect, if Walts Hunting was wrong, I'd sure love it if you would please cite your sources, because I believe that you are wrong. I don't believe that a footnote in an email is in any way legally binding.

 

Any attempt to argue with my position on this matter may be subject to legal action and may eventually result in my becoming independently wealthy at your expense.

Google "email expectation of privacy" to learn why there is none.

 

If you want privacy, don't count on email. Here's why.

 

Email may feel like a private, one-to-one conversation safe from prying eyes, but email is about as confidential as whispering at the White House. Your messages can be intercepted and read anywhere in transit, or reconstructed and read off of backup devices, for a potentially infinite period of time.

 

If you're sending email at work, your boss can legally monitor it, and if your company becomes involved in a lawsuit, your adversary has the legal right to review it. If you send email from home, anonymous hackers can intercept it, and if you are suspected of a crime, law enforcement officials with a warrant can seize your electronic correspondence. Even your Internet service provider may legally be able to scrutinize your email.

 

What all this amounts to is simple: Unless you take affirmative steps to encrypt your messages -- a process that uses sophisticated software to garble your words and then allow the recipient to unscramble and read them -- don't count on email as a confidential method of transmitting information.

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With all due respect, if Walts Hunting was wrong, I'd sure love it if you would please cite your sources, because I believe that you are wrong. I don't believe that a footnote in an email is in any way legally binding.

 

Any attempt to argue with my position on this matter may be subject to legal action and may eventually result in my becoming independently wealthy at your expense.

 

E-mail is a written work that once created is copyright protected by the author. This means you cannot post publicly an e-mail sent to you privately. You cannot post private e-mails to your site, to message boards or to your blog without the author’s specific permission to do so.

 

Just because an e-mail was sent to you as a private communication does not mean you then own it and can do with it what you like. In addition, e-mail that is posted to a group of people, on a mailing list or Newsgroup does not make the e-mail available for reposting, copying, or any other use – not without the express and written consent of the author.

 

you can find everything you need in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act

 

 

 

Google "email expectation of privacy" to learn why there is none.

 

If you want privacy, don't count on email. Here's why.

 

Email may feel like a private, one-to-one conversation safe from prying eyes, but email is about as confidential as whispering at the White House. Your messages can be intercepted and read anywhere in transit, or reconstructed and read off of backup devices, for a potentially infinite period of time.

 

If you're sending email at work, your boss can legally monitor it, and if your company becomes involved in a lawsuit, your adversary has the legal right to review it. If you send email from home, anonymous hackers can intercept it, and if you are suspected of a crime, law enforcement officials with a warrant can seize your electronic correspondence. Even your Internet service provider may legally be able to scrutinize your email.

 

What all this amounts to is simple: Unless you take affirmative steps to encrypt your messages -- a process that uses sophisticated software to garble your words and then allow the recipient to unscramble and read them -- don't count on email as a confidential method of transmitting information.

 

you are arguing different points there, i am talking about sharing contents of an email and you are talking about the right of accessing someone's email and protecting the contents of it when you send it...different animals

 

the Fourth Amendment, expectation of privacy, is what governs the argument you presented

 

 

however, this subject is totally unrelated to what the thread was addressing, as such i will refrain from further replies

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Well I contacted the publisher, and quite frankly I was appalled by the response:

 

Now I'm not sure what to do. 

 

first, EDIT your post and remove the reply from the reviewer...email messages are private and confidential not to be copied and pasted in a public forum, you could have used your own words to explain the answer :ph34r:

Wrong. There is no expectation of privacy with email. You should expect that everything you post can and will be read by others.

 

of course there is, you never read the privacy note at the end of the emails? its exactly the same as a letter, intended for personal and private communication

unless the owner gives you the right to "publish" their word you have no right to do so

 

don't confuse email with forum posting, big difference there

An emailers expectation of privacy ends when they hit <send>. Similarly, a person who mails a letter has no way to legally stop someone from sharing the letter's contents.

 

If one wishes their thoughts to remain private, they should not share them with others.

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I count on email to send private email messages all of the time.

 

The nice thing though is, that I don't care much one way or the other if some poor soul wants to intercept my emails.

 

Of course, I draw a clear distinction between 'private' communications and content which is commonly known as "Personally Identifiable Information" (PII).

 

"Personally Identifiable Information (PII), as used in information security, refers to information that can be used to uniquely identify, contact, or locate a single person or can be used with other sources to uniquely identify a single individual. The abbreviation PII is widely accepted, but the phrase it abbreviates has four common variants based on personal, personally, identifiable, and identifying. Not all are equivalent, and for legal purposes the effective definitions vary depending on the jurisdiction and the purposes for which the term is being used."

 

I'm sure that ever once in a while I have slipped up and violated my personal rule wrt PII. I can assure you though, I am not paranoid about it.

 

And like the majority of internet users, I would never make a purchase online, never.

 

Fortunately there are common sense actions that you take and services available to help ensure the security of your PII.

Edited by Team Cotati
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With all due respect, if Walts Hunting was wrong, I'd sure love it if you would please cite your sources, because I believe that you are wrong. I don't believe that a footnote in an email is in any way legally binding.

 

Any attempt to argue with my position on this matter may be subject to legal action and may eventually result in my becoming independently wealthy at your expense.

 

E-mail is a written work that once created is copyright protected by the author. This means you cannot post publicly an e-mail sent to you privately. You cannot post private e-mails to your site, to message boards or to your blog without the author’s specific permission to do so.

 

Just because an e-mail was sent to you as a private communication does not mean you then own it and can do with it what you like. In addition, e-mail that is posted to a group of people, on a mailing list or Newsgroup does not make the e-mail available for reposting, copying, or any other use – not without the express and written consent of the author.

 

you can find everything you need in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act

 

 

 

Google "email expectation of privacy" to learn why there is none.

 

If you want privacy, don't count on email. Here's why.

 

Email may feel like a private, one-to-one conversation safe from prying eyes, but email is about as confidential as whispering at the White House. Your messages can be intercepted and read anywhere in transit, or reconstructed and read off of backup devices, for a potentially infinite period of time.

 

If you're sending email at work, your boss can legally monitor it, and if your company becomes involved in a lawsuit, your adversary has the legal right to review it. If you send email from home, anonymous hackers can intercept it, and if you are suspected of a crime, law enforcement officials with a warrant can seize your electronic correspondence. Even your Internet service provider may legally be able to scrutinize your email.

 

What all this amounts to is simple: Unless you take affirmative steps to encrypt your messages -- a process that uses sophisticated software to garble your words and then allow the recipient to unscramble and read them -- don't count on email as a confidential method of transmitting information.

 

you are arguing different points there, i am talking about sharing contents of an email and you are talking about the right of accessing someone's email and protecting the contents of it when you send it...different animals

 

the Fourth Amendment, expectation of privacy, is what governs the argument you presented

 

 

however, this subject is totally unrelated to what the thread was addressing, as such i will refrain from further replies

One wonders why the <forward> button exists if it is illegal to share the contents of an email with a third party.
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Back to the actual topic of the thread...

 

You contacted the reviewer. Unless you think that there are other permission guidelines that have been trounced upon, I'd let it be.

 

As much as it pains my bleeding heart, tree hugging soul- the turkey population is pretty much secure. I'd at least mention it in my log so that other cachers would have some idea that there's a chance of an encounter, but that's about all you can do.

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you can find everything you need in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act

I was just reviewing the Digital Millennium Act. Doesn't seem to apply to either specificaly e-mail, or digital communications at all. It is strictly related to copyright. I don't aggree that an email has a copyright.

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