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Post office caches


ashnikes
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No, dont think about it. Its a federal thing and too many red tapes.

 

Shouldn't be a problem as long as you do it somewhere near the PO Boxes inside or attached to the blue or green mail box out front. Unless they happen to park the delivery vehicles at your PO, that's usually a fairly good location too.

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Hide out in the shrubbery with a video camera so you can catch all the action when the bomb squad arrives.

 

Actually, if they continue raising their postage rates they'll continue to drive people away, and eventually the whole USA Postal system will be abandoned. Then it will just be another piece of empty public property. Go for it.

 

Actually actually, the Guv'ment will never admit that the Postal system is dying, so they'll keep pouring tax dollars into it the way they keep pouring tax dollars into the long-dead rail system. So you may want to hold off. Or hide a cache at both the Post Office and the nearest Amtrak station. See which one gets the least number of finds.

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No, dont think about it. Its a federal thing and too many red tapes.

 

Shouldn't be a problem as long as you do it somewhere near the PO Boxes inside or attached to the blue or green mail box out front. Unless they happen to park the delivery vehicles at your PO, that's usually a fairly good location too.

 

Please!

This guy is just crazy enough to do it. I would hate to see a new cacher get caught replacing that cache after they found it. Although I doubt it would ever actually happen, when the FBI tells that poor cacher that he is facing a $50K fine and five years in jail, I think that his attitude toward Geocaching will sour.

 

To the OP, USPS property, including their boxes out in the community, are off limits. They will not give you permission if you ask.

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Whats the rule on hiding a cache on the outside of a post office i if get permission from the managers?

It is a federal offense. Don't do it even if you have the postmaster's permission, the postal police won't care. They consider it tampering with the mail and in the age of see something, say something its too risky to do that to your fellow cachers. I do know this from my dad who is a retired postal supervisor.

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Be aware that no all post offices are on property owned by the Federal Government.

 

Some are on property owned by someone else and the GSA is leasing the building.

 

Get permission. But don't be surprised if you cannot get that. And don't be surprised (or upset) if your reviewer requires EXPLICIT as opposed to ADEQUATE permission and requires you to provide proof.

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I have a magnetic hide a key under a phone kiosk on the property of a Post Office. How does this apply to that?

It falls under 'Don't ask, don't tell'!

 

The phone kiosk is private commercial property and you likely do not have nor can you get the phone company to give you permission to attach a cache to it.

 

Add that the cache is on Federally owned or managed property where you likely do not have nor can get permission and you've doubled your trouble!

 

Flaunting that you have a cache which is outside the Guidelines is asking to get it archived. :)

 

An 'illegal' cache can live a long time but once it is explicitly brought to a Reviewers attention they have no choice but to act on it to resolve the issue.

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The reason being, there is a small town near here called Christmas. Christmas, FL, and they have a post office that has a small museum, as parents used to drive from all over the place to mail letters to their kids from Christmas, Florida, stamped by santa clause himself, and I wanted to hide a christmas themed cache (of which i dont think there are even any caches in christmas yet period) in on or somewhere near the post office to showcase it, but i wasnt sure about the rule on such a thing.

 

This is probably the smallest post office i have ever seen, and by far the coolest people work here, they get dressed up in costume around chirstmas time, and the town is decked out in christmas decorations year round, course the town is like a one blinking yellow light town, with a gas station fire station poliece station, city hall all in the same building, and no grocery store.

Edited by ashnikes
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I have a magnetic hide a key under a phone kiosk on the property of a Post Office. How does this apply to that?

 

Personally, I would pull it if were my cache.

The US Postal Service really does not have a sense of humor when it comes to these issues.

 

If I were on the hunt and saw where I was headed, I would just keep on driving. A new cacher may not understand this and decide to stop. The thing is, it's real easy for a hider to slap a magnet cache down, even in a sea of people. The seeker, however, has to take some time and effort to find that magnet. That can make them look suspicious. The Post Office is the last place you want to look suspicious. Worse case scenario is that they find it and then when putting it back, someone sees them and reports it. They will accused of planting it.

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The reason being, there is a small town near here called Christmas. Christmas, FL, and they have a post office that has a small museum, as parents used to drive from all over the place to mail letters to their kids from Christmas, Florida, stamped by santa clause himself, and I wanted to hide a christmas themed cache (of which i dont think there are even any caches in christmas yet period) in on or somewhere near the post office to showcase it, but i wasnt sure about the rule on such a thing.

 

This is probably the smallest post office i have ever seen, and by far the coolest people work here, they get dressed up in costume around chirstmas time, and the town is decked out in christmas decorations year round, course the town is like a one blinking yellow light town, with a gas station fire station poliece station, city hall all in the same building, and no grocery store.

 

Well ask the postmaster. It can't hurt, worst thing that can happen is he says no.

 

If he says yes you're best off getting an e-mail or a letter from him on USPS stationery so you can provide proof of permission to your reviewer.

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The reason being, there is a small town near here called Christmas. Christmas, FL, and they have a post office that has a small museum, as parents used to drive from all over the place to mail letters to their kids from Christmas, Florida, stamped by santa clause himself, and I wanted to hide a christmas themed cache (of which i dont think there are even any caches in christmas yet period) in on or somewhere near the post office to showcase it, but i wasnt sure about the rule on such a thing.

 

This is probably the smallest post office i have ever seen, and by far the coolest people work here, they get dressed up in costume around chirstmas time, and the town is decked out in christmas decorations year round, course the town is like a one blinking yellow light town, with a gas station fire station poliece station, city hall all in the same building, and no grocery store.

 

Well ask the postmaster. It can't hurt, worst thing that can happen is he says no.

 

If he says yes you're best off getting an e-mail or a letter from him on USPS stationery so you can provide proof of permission to your reviewer.

 

ok ill do it next time i get a chance to get out there. and who knows i may see some place else near but not on the property that works better and has less red tape.

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There is a series of caches in a town here in Louisiana that are placed on the blue mail boxes outside the post office and through out the town. All they are, are magnetic key holders placed underneath the mail boxes. The one in front of the post office is in plain view of the lobby. They were hidden in 2007 and there have been no complaints or bomb scares that I know of.

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There is a series of caches in a town here in Louisiana that are placed on the blue mail boxes outside the post office and through out the town. All they are, are magnetic key holders placed underneath the mail boxes. The one in front of the post office is in plain view of the lobby. They were hidden in 2007 and there have been no complaints or bomb scares that I know of.

 

Doesn't make it a good idea. Unless they are there with USPS permission they are not only against the geocaching.com guiidelines, they are against the law.

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There is a series of caches in a town here in Louisiana that are placed on the blue mail boxes outside the post office and through out the town. All they are, are magnetic key holders placed underneath the mail boxes. The one in front of the post office is in plain view of the lobby. They were hidden in 2007 and there have been no complaints or bomb scares that I know of.

See Post #13. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=4395029

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Whats the rule on hiding a cache on the outside of a post office i if get permission from the managers?

 

IF the postmaster approves officially, it could be fun.

Personally, I'd make it an off-set/puzzle.

Visit the PO to get some information to derive the co-ordinates for the actual container placed somewhere less provocative.

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I have a magnetic hide a key under a phone kiosk on the property of a Post Office. How does this apply to that?

It falls under 'Don't ask, don't tell'!

 

The phone kiosk is private commercial property and you likely do not have nor can you get the phone company to give you permission to attach a cache to it.

 

Add that the cache is on Federally owned or managed property where you likely do not have nor can get permission and you've doubled your trouble!

 

Flaunting that you have a cache which is outside the Guidelines is asking to get it archived. :)

 

An 'illegal' cache can live a long time but once it is explicitly brought to a Reviewers attention they have no choice but to act on it to resolve the issue.

 

Sorry for returning to the discussion so much later. I will ask the postmaster's permissions and see if I can get a written ok. I obviously haven't read the guidelines in full. The people there are very friendly and bend over backwards to help out, even for a VERY busy county seat office. (BTW, love the eMagazine. I will be submitting some mural pics soon from North Ga.)

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Whats the rule on hiding a cache on the outside of a post office i if get permission from the managers?

 

IF the postmaster approves officially, it could be fun.

Personally, I'd make it an off-set/puzzle.

Visit the PO to get some information to derive the co-ordinates for the actual container placed somewhere less provocative.

 

thats a good idea

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The reason being, there is a small town near here called Christmas. Christmas, FL, and they have a post office that has a small museum, as parents used to drive from all over the place to mail letters to their kids from Christmas, Florida, stamped by santa clause himself, and I wanted to hide a christmas themed cache (of which i dont think there are even any caches in christmas yet period) in on or somewhere near the post office to showcase it, but i wasnt sure about the rule on such a thing.

 

This is probably the smallest post office i have ever seen, and by far the coolest people work here, they get dressed up in costume around chirstmas time, and the town is decked out in christmas decorations year round, course the town is like a one blinking yellow light town, with a gas station fire station poliece station, city hall all in the same building, and no grocery store.

That sounds like a really great location and a cache location idea. Great for cachers with kids.

 

Sounds like the employees would get enjoyment from visiting cachers, too.

 

Here's hoping that you get the explicit permission to hide a cache there, or near by, to bring this cool location to folks' attention. The offset/puzzle idea sounds like a good plan.

 

hey, who are you and what have you done with ashnikes??? :laughing:

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Actually actually, the Guv'ment will never admit that the Postal system is dying, so they'll keep pouring tax dollars into it the way they keep pouring tax dollars into the long-dead rail system.

 

$0.00 tax dollars go for the operation costs of the United States Postal Service.

No fair! Bringing facts to this forum is like bringing a gun to a knife fight!

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Here's the result of a mail box cache in Chicago: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...23-261f5c84e577

This may or may not be true, as I was living in Chicago at the time and so no mention of it on the news. Plus, I worked a few blocks away at Sears Tower (I refuse to call it by it's changed name!), and never heard anything about it.

Edited by GrateBear
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You could always do some sort of puzzle cache or multi involving the location, but without a physical container at said location. Maybe even a letterbox cache with directions starting at the post office.

 

This might make the whole thing more intersting anyway and will probably save you some headaches. Doesn't hurt to ask first, but this might be a nice backup plan...

 

P.s. I've driven through Cristmas on my way to mirror island I believe.

Edited by d+n.shults
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There was a multi-cache here in SE Pennsylvania that was in a post office. You started by finding the initial cache location in the woods (some old abandoned house). At that location you would grab a key to a post office box. From there you hiked a mile or so to the post office, opened the PO box and signed the log. Bummer of the cache was that you had to hike back the mile or so to replace the key in the initial cache location. Keys kept going missing and morons (like myself) got frustrated by arriving at the post office past noon on a Saturday after the post office was closed.

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turns out theres a cache around there already, so proximity ruled me out in this case, oh well.

So you can still go through with the first stage of the multi there where they pick up info. As long as there is not a physical object there this is OK. Just make sure the final is out of the proximity. Good luck!

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Best that I recall, any post office is technically federal property, whether owned or leased/rented.

When I ran a postal contract station in a carpet and drapery store it was definitely not federal property. The USPS might have tried to claim authority over a small portion of the store but they had no influence over any of the rest of the operation.

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Best that I recall, any post office is technically federal property, whether owned or leased/rented.

When I ran a postal contract station in a carpet and drapery store it was definitely not federal property. The USPS might have tried to claim authority over a small portion of the store but they had no influence over any of the rest of the operation.

 

Had someone come in and whacked you over the head, I'm sure you would have appreciated having Postal Inspectors looking for them :laughing:

 

Point taken, I did say technically. Stations like that are fairly rare these day AFAIK.

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Best that I recall, any post office is technically federal property, whether owned or leased/rented.

When I ran a postal contract station in a carpet and drapery store it was definitely not federal property. The USPS might have tried to claim authority over a small portion of the store but they had no influence over any of the rest of the operation.

 

Had someone come in and whacked you over the head, I'm sure you would have appreciated having Postal Inspectors looking for them :laughing:

 

Point taken, I did say technically. Stations like that are fairly rare these day AFAIK.

I suppose it would have depended on the purpose of the head whack. Steal stamps or steal carpeting. :huh:

 

Around here Safeway and Costco sell stamps so they are most likely contract stations. Steal stamps and you may well find yourself in some trouble, and in jail.

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Best that I recall, any post office is technically federal property, whether owned or leased/rented.

 

The building is for sure Federal property. The land isn't always. But I would think any full size PO is not going to be on someone else's land. Heck, even the law isn't really crystal clear when it comes to carry--some people feel that the regs apply to the postal employees only, and they have some things that back that up. But prudent toters just avoid the drama altogether and don't tote there. That would be me.

 

Also keeps me away from schools. No confusion about the law there. :laughing:

 

Mama didn't raise no law-breaker, whether I agree with the law or not.

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Best that I recall, any post office is technically federal property, whether owned or leased/rented.

 

The building is for sure Federal property. The land isn't always. But I would think any full size PO is not going to be on someone else's land. Heck, even the law isn't really crystal clear when it comes to carry--some people feel that the regs apply to the postal employees only, and they have some things that back that up. But prudent toters just avoid the drama altogether and don't tote there. That would be me.

 

Also keeps me away from schools. No confusion about the law there. :laughing:

 

Mama didn't raise no law-breaker, whether I agree with the law or not.

Exactly why I quit carrying while geocaching... too many places you can't carry and it only takes one forgetful moment or "I didn't know firearms were prohibited here" event to get yourself a gun rap.

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Unless there is theft of federal property the USPS isn't going to give a rat's behind about the loss of stamps from a third party. This includes those little stationary stores that have miniature USPS kiosks in them

 

I would also like to know what violation of federal law (what statute) is being violated by placing a magnetic cache on a mail receptacle.

 

Being LEO I'm a little different but I CCW everywhere. If my gun doesn't go, I don't go except for rare occasions.

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I would also like to know what violation of federal law (what statute) is being violated by placing a magnetic cache on a mail receptacle.

 

I don't think it's a matter of federal law, I think it's a matter of guidelines and a common sense bucket list of "bad places to put a cache". I can only imagine the juicy bit of local news drivel that would result in a cache (key-holder or not) being discovered and resulting in a bomb scare at a post office. x50 if it was placed without permission.

 

If permission was granted from the Post Master, there probably wouldn't be a problem*. Sounds like the PO in question has a cache there already, so I'm assuming that one has permission.

 

 

*Except sometimes that doesn't matter and it still is a problem.

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Best that I recall, any post office is technically federal property, whether owned or leased/rented.

 

The building is for sure Federal property. The land isn't always. But I would think any full size PO is not going to be on someone else's land. Heck, even the law isn't really crystal clear when it comes to carry--some people feel that the regs apply to the postal employees only, and they have some things that back that up. But prudent toters just avoid the drama altogether and don't tote there. That would be me.

 

Also keeps me away from schools. No confusion about the law there. :)

 

Mama didn't raise no law-breaker, whether I agree with the law or not.

 

There's quite a few Post Offices in my area that are tenants in retail developments (read "strip mall"). They USPS definitely don't own the building in these locations.

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Unless there is theft of federal property the USPS isn't going to give a rat's behind about the loss of stamps from a third party. This includes those little stationary stores that have miniature USPS kiosks in them

Sure, busy enforcers means small-time crime gets selective enforcement, which is okay unless you are the one selected!

 

I would also like to know what violation of federal law (what statute) is being violated by placing a magnetic cache on a mail receptacle.

"The USPS Domestic Mail Manual states that “no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items of matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle.” In other words, the mailbox may not be used for anything other than for pieces of mail with postage attached. The USPS Domestic Mail Manual goes on to states that it is a federal offense and there is a significant penalty for violating this law. "

 

Glad I could help!

 

Being LEO I'm a little different but I CCW everywhere. If my gun doesn't go, I don't go except for rare occasions.

Cool, thank you for your service, but most of us don't have that get-out-of-jail-free badge in our wallet that makes most officers turn a blind eye to our petty transgressions! :)

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There's quite a few Post Offices in my area that are tenants in retail developments (read "strip mall"). They USPS definitely don't own the building in these locations.

 

I'm willing to bet they "own" the actual post office boxes in those buildings.

 

Yes, and in that case, I would have no problem going to the stores in the mall, but I would not enter the PO store.

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Best that I recall, any post office is technically federal property, whether owned or leased/rented.

 

The building is for sure Federal property. The land isn't always. But I would think any full size PO is not going to be on someone else's land. Heck, even the law isn't really crystal clear when it comes to carry--some people feel that the regs apply to the postal employees only, and they have some things that back that up. But prudent toters just avoid the drama altogether and don't tote there. That would be me.

 

Also keeps me away from schools. No confusion about the law there. :)

 

Mama didn't raise no law-breaker, whether I agree with the law or not.

Exactly why I quit carrying while geocaching... too many places you can't carry and it only takes one forgetful moment or "I didn't know firearms were prohibited here" event to get yourself a gun rap.

 

I went to handgunlaw.us and checked out AL. Yeah, I can see why you don't bother when caching. Florida doesn't have as many restrictions as AL does.

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I would also like to know what violation of federal law (what statute) is being violated by placing a magnetic cache on a mail receptacle.

 

 

here is a little more on the federal law / statute

 

and here is a link to where I found this info.

 

U.S. POSTAL SERVICE Information About Restrictions on Mailbox Access

 

In 1934, Congress enacted a law known as the “mailbox restriction” that

prohibits anyone from placing mailable matter without postage into any

mailbox. This law, 18 U.S.C. 1725, gives the Postal Service a virtual

monopoly over mailboxes and currently reads as follows:

 

“Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits any mailable matter such as statements of

accounts, circulars, sale bills, or other like matter, on which no postage has been paid, in

any letter box established, approved, or accepted by the Postal Service for the receipt or

delivery of mail matter on any mail route with intent to avoid payment of lawful postage

thereon, shall for each such offense be fined under this title.”

 

Under current law, a violation of the mailbox restriction law is an

infraction that can be punished by a fine but not by imprisonment. The

maximum fine for each offense is $5,000 for individuals and $10,000 for

organizations.6

 

In addition to the mailbox restriction law, Postal Service regulations

provide that “every letterbox or other receptacle intended or used for the

receipt or delivery of mail” may be used only for matter bearing postage

and that any mailable matter found in mailboxes without postage is

subject to payment of the same postage as if it had been carried by mail.7

Postal Service regulations are broader than the mailbox restriction law.

The regulations restrict items placed upon, supported by, attached to,

hung from, or inserted into a mailbox.8 However, the regulations do not

apply to door slots, among other things.9

Edited by roundnround we go
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