Premium Member Only Caches

[+Wolverine13]

I am a Premium Member, and I do enjoy SOME of its perks. However, I am agianst PMO caches, because I think that our great game should be for everyone. I looked at topics similar to this on the new Groundspeak Feedback forums, but it seemed as though everyone on that particular post was hot-headed over the issues.

 

I want this forum topic to be the opposite. I want to learn of others opinions on this issue. I think this topic is a place for members and premium members alike to share their opinions, and debate in a rational manner.

[+t4e]

personally i don't care, but of course that is partly because i am a PM

 

on the other hand there is a work around and regular members can log PM caches only so i don't see what the big deal is

 

since i pay my dues and one of the perks is to set up my caches as PM, not that i ever did, i am free to exercise that perk without being nailed to the wall by those that choose to stay regular members

[I!]

I liked making my most recent caches PMO for a time to reward those cachers who are minded to give something back. Coincidentally or not, the comments and swag quality remained high for a while. I gave it a few weeks before making the caches public - it is, after all, all about the numbers.

[+briansnat]

Our game is for everyone. It's just that not every cache is for everyone. For anybody who might feel, left out there is an easy remedy.

[+Twitch Hugs Trees]

I don't really understand the point of a PM-only cache. I am a regular member (I don't have $30 to fork over and not nearly enough time to spend caching to warrant paying) and I don't understand why some feel the need to hide a cache and not make it available to everyone. I suppose it hides it from muggles and those environmental wackos who destroy caches, but that doesn't seem to be that much of a problem. Maybe a premium member can chime in?

 

Edit:

 

I liked making my most recent caches PMO for a time to reward those cachers who are minded to give something back.

 

So what about those who buy from the store, rather than a membership? Are we not giving something back, by supporting the sport we love with products? I've purchased stickers, a water bottle, trackables, etc. from Groundspeak, just not a premium membership. Certainly all of my purchases add up to more than thirty dollars, but I would rather give small amounts many times over than one year of premium membership paid once and never again.

 

I don't mind PMO caches, it doesn't bother me; I'm just trying to understand the logic behind them. To each their own, I suppose.

Edited July 8, 2010 by twitchhugstrees

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

I think a few people make a bigger deal out of it than it really is. If for no other reason than the fact that durn few of the caches out there are PMO.

[+dfx]

the only somewhat understandable reason i've ever heard was that the COs don't want their cache listings to be public. public not in relation to other geocachers, but in relation to non-geocachers, i.e. people who don't have an account. regular caches are viewable by anyone exept for the coordinates, but PMO caches will just give them a blank page.

 

not that i understand why anyone would want their cache listings to be private, but they can do it via PMO if they want to.

Edited July 8, 2010 by dfx

[Trader Rick & Rosie]

Logical and respectful? No fair!!

[+thedeadpirate]

Ni!

 

Peng!

Edited July 8, 2010 by GeoBain

[+dfx]

... and debate in a rational manner.

ain't gonna happen.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

i won't become a premium member when i can play for free. i don't like to spend a lot on recreation. i don't mind the PMO caches though if that's what the CO wants. i get those caches for free on my BlackBerry app anyway without even knowing they are PMO until after i logged it. Even if i didn't get those free, having PMO caches would not entice me to become a Premium Member. There's so many free caches!

[+Team Cotati]

Irrelevant.

[+roziecakes]

I liked making my most recent caches PMO for a time to reward those cachers who are minded to give something back. Coincidentally or not, the comments and swag quality remained high for a while. I gave it a few weeks before making the caches public - it is, after all, all about the numbers.

 

Yes! this is why I made my one PMO cache, I wanted to give back specifically to PMs only because they contribute $ to Groundspeak and make it so that other folks can play for free if they want... I especially did it for the hardcore cachers in Oregon who really hide some awesome creative caches, and find some really great caches.

 

We were given the container by another PM who makes really neat containers and has great hides, so in a way I felt like it was honoring him as well.

 

Some folks use the argument that PMO caches will make it less likely for their cache to get broken or muggled, I agree with this to an extent, but to be honest, the PMO cache that I put out has required more maintenance than any other cache and got broken literally three times (until I worked with it some and fixed it for good, and put a warning on the page to be gentle with it and not tug on it).

 

Some people like to make all their caches PMO, and they have a right to. I find it to be a little exclusive to do it that way, but they're not breaking a guideline by doing so, so it's okay.

 

Fortunately, I am pretty sure there are enough caches out there that are not PMO, so everyone will have the opportunity for a lot of great finds

 

Hope that answers your question.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

Irrelevant.

 

It is now but a good question. Maybe PMO caches will be done away with.

[+DragonflyTotem]

I've been making my new caches PMO and it all has to do with something that I'd noticed a couple of months ago. I had several caches placed within an area and none were PMO caches. Someone else had a PMO cache that was also in that same general area. During a couple of weeks period, all of my caches in that area got muggled. The PMO cache wasn't disturbed. I replaced my containers and changed the cache listings to make them all PMOs. Since then none of those caches have been muggled.

 

So it seems to have at least some sort of direct impact upon the caches being messed with.

[+dfx]

i get those caches for free on my BlackBerry app anyway without even knowing they are PMO until after i logged it.

i'd call that a bug (maybe MAGOR?) in the blackberry app.

[+BulldogBlitz]

i like to hide the PMOs because after 10 hides you get a free sundae at baskin robbins.

 

[+roziecakes]

i won't become a premium member when i can play for free. i don't like to spend a lot on recreation. i don't mind the PMO caches though if that's what the CO wants. i get those caches for free on my BlackBerry app anyway without even knowing they are PMO until after i logged it. Even if i didn't get those free, having PMO caches would not entice me to become a Premium Member. There's so many free caches!

 

Just remember that you get to play for free because others pay though That being said, You have a great attitude about it I think, and yes, there are so many free caches that a person will never be bored!

[+Team Cotati]

Irrelevant.

 

It is now but a good question. Maybe PMO caches will be done away with.

 

In my opinion, not a chance.

[+t4e]

I don't really understand the point of a PM-only cache. Maybe a premium member can chime in?

 

 

see post #2...to sum it, because we can if we want to

[+roziecakes]

i like to hide the PMOs because after 10 hides you get a free sundae at baskin robbins.

 

 

How many do you have to hide to get a platinum membership though?

[+Cache O'Plenty]

We had a situation with one of those Rent-a-cops. Even though permission had been granted, he decided he didn't like cachers and actually signed up so he could get the coordinates for all existing caches and then he muggled (er... stole) all the existing ones. Then bragged about it in the logs.

 

So, we all made them PMO. If he really was that strong about it, it'll cost him $$$$$. Oh, all in the area are now el cheapo containers.

[+Cache O'Plenty]

As for my reasons for PMO caches. The better ones are PMO (only a couple). New folks can find all the regular ones but then know that even better ones are available if they participate in the game with $$. If no one became a PMO, then this site would go away.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

As for my reasons for PMO caches. The better ones are PMO (only a couple). New folks can find all the regular ones but then know that even better ones are available if they participate in the game with $$. If no one became a PMO, then this site would go away.

 

Isn't this site supported by the ads on it? i thought that's how sites remained free like Google and CrackBerry. If not, then i *really* appreciate those who are paying so i can play for free!

 

Although i did buy the BlackBerry app at $19.99. If Premium Membership was a one time fee, i'd buy it. i just don't make enough to budget towards this. Maybe in the future!

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

As for my reasons for PMO caches. The better ones are PMO (only a couple). New folks can find all the regular ones but then know that even better ones are available if they participate in the game with $$. If no one became a PMO, then this site would go away.

 

Um, I find it hard to believe that PMO caches are any better. My experience doesn't bear that out.

[+dfx]

Isn't this site supported by the ads on it? i thought that's how sites remained free like Google and CrackBerry.

if that's what you think, where do you think the money from all the PMs goes?

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

Isn't this site supported by the ads on it? i thought that's how sites remained free like Google and CrackBerry.

if that's what you think, where do you think the money from all the PMs goes?

 

Corporate greed?

 

Same place as where the money goes when someone buys an $11 sticker that took .50 cents to make.

 

i don't really know.

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

As for my reasons for PMO caches. The better ones are PMO (only a couple). New folks can find all the regular ones but then know that even better ones are available if they participate in the game with $$. If no one became a PMO, then this site would go away.

 

Isn't this site supported by the ads on it? i thought that's how sites remained free like Google and CrackBerry. If not, then i *really* appreciate those who are paying so i can play for free!

 

Although i did buy the BlackBerry app at $19.99. If Premium Membership was a one time fee, i'd buy it. i just don't make enough to budget towards this. Maybe in the future!

 

Not trying to be nasty but let's do the math.

 

$30/52weeks=58¢per week

 

How much did you spend on coffee or and/od Mt.Dew (or whatever) last week? It's seriously cheap for the entertainment buck.

[+Kit Fox]

I am a Premium Member, and I do enjoy SOME of its perks. However, I am agianst PMO caches, because I think that our great game should be for everyone. I looked at topics similar to this on the new Groundspeak Feedback forums, but it seemed as though everyone on that particular post was hot-headed over the issues.

 

I want this forum topic to be the opposite. I want to learn of others opinions on this issue. I think this topic is a place for members and premium members alike to share their opinions, and debate in a rational manner.

 

Do we really have to debate this again?

 

Caches marked for premium members only are no where near as "exclusionary or elitist" as caches requiring boats, black lights, rappelling gear, scuba gear, or the physical ability to hike long distances over rough terrain.

 

My best hides are all premium member caches. I've hidden over 130 physical caches and my Premium caches last longer, and retain a better quality of trade items. Most of my best caches require significant effort be it long hikes, or tough puzzles, and long hikes. This is a factor that can and does contribute to these caches lasting longer.

 

When I first started geocaching (May 2004) the website was very simplistic. Over the years Groundspeak has made substantial improvements along the way. I personally feel premium members are the best supporters of this site. I've been a premium member since June of 04, and I like to share my caches other site supporters. $30.00 per year is hardly an elitist club.

 

Be aware that this topic is one of the most heated topics in the forum.

 

Logic behind "Premium members only" caches, benefits

 

 

What's the Beef about PREMIUM MEMBERS ONLY caches?

 

Premium member cache questions.

 

Deleting Logs of Premium Members -- is this allowed?

 

Should more caches be made members only?

 

Economics 101

 

Premium Membership Exclusivities

 

Member only caches and why I hate them

 

Caches for premium members only

 

Why have the premium membership?

 

Members only caches

 

Subscription Only Caches--grrrrrrrrrr!

 

Member Only Caches, Should I or shouldn't I?

 

Caches for Premium members only

 

Members only caches

 

"members only" caches rant

 

The First "no Members" Cache

 

Change Moc Suggestion, need only normal account to view

 

Northeast Premium Member Only Caches, What are your thoughts?

 

When To Hide A Premium Member Cache, What is the culture of Member Only cache

 

Members Only Cache Hides, Members Only Cache Hides

 

Members Only, Premium Member Cache

 

And from across the pond

Members Only Caches, Is there a point anymore ?

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

Isn't this site supported by the ads on it? i thought that's how sites remained free like Google and CrackBerry.

if that's what you think, where do you think the money from all the PMs goes?

 

Corporate greed?

 

Same place as where the money goes when someone buys an $11 sticker that took .50 cents to make.

 

i don't really know.

 

Making a few bucks is not an evil thing.

[+Cache O'Plenty]

Yes, I'm sure there is some income from ads here. But you'll notice that the number of ads are no where near what you'll find on Google, Facebook, Yahoo, etc. And the ads really don't bring in the dollars here since the community is so much smaller than the really high-click sites.

 

And, to respond to "GOF's Sock Puppet" comment: "Um, I find it hard to believe that PMO caches are any better. My experience doesn't bear that out.".

 

This is how we do it here, but it's not always the case. IMO, PMO caches "should" be the better ones (either for location or quality). PMO caches should never be a LPC or other "for the numbers".

[+dfx]

hey, at least you can simply whip out a few bucks and get access to all those caches if you want them. not like certain other sites where you have to be "sponsored" to even join. that's what i call elitist

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

Yes, I'm sure there is some income from ads here. But you'll notice that the number of ads are no where near what you'll find on Google, Facebook, Yahoo, etc. And the ads really don't bring in the dollars here since the community is so much smaller than the really high-click sites.

 

And, to respond to "GOF's Sock Puppet" comment: "Um, I find it hard to believe that PMO caches are any better. My experience doesn't bear that out.".

 

This is how we do it here, but it's not always the case. IMO, PMO caches "should" be the better ones (either for location or quality). PMO caches should never be a LPC or other "for the numbers".

 

Perhaps they should, but it is seldom the case.

[+dfx]

This is how we do it here, but it's not always the case. IMO, PMO caches "should" be the better ones (either for location or quality). PMO caches should never be a LPC or other "for the numbers".

hmmm... i wonder what would happen if all caches from that ET powertrail would be set to PMO...

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

This is how we do it here, but it's not always the case. IMO, PMO caches "should" be the better ones (either for location or quality). PMO caches should never be a LPC or other "for the numbers".

hmmm... i wonder what would happen if all caches from that ET powertrail would be set to PMO...

 

Well now I get to clean the screen.

[Earthdog Patrick]

Reviewers won't approve a premium cache if it is a bison tube, right???

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

Isn't this site supported by the ads on it? i thought that's how sites remained free like Google and CrackBerry.

if that's what you think, where do you think the money from all the PMs goes?

 

Corporate greed?

 

Same place as where the money goes when someone buys an $11 sticker that took .50 cents to make.

 

i don't really know.

 

Making a few bucks is not an evil thing.

 

Of course not! That's capitalism! i'm just glad i can play for free! It's part of what i like about this game. i used to spend time in nature for free...now i have things to search for while i'm there!

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

Yes, I'm sure there is some income from ads here. But you'll notice that the number of ads are no where near what you'll find on Google, Facebook, Yahoo, etc. And the ads really don't bring in the dollars here since the community is so much smaller than the really high-click sites.

 

And, to respond to "GOF's Sock Puppet" comment: "Um, I find it hard to believe that PMO caches are any better. My experience doesn't bear that out.".

 

This is how we do it here, but it's not always the case. IMO, PMO caches "should" be the better ones (either for location or quality). PMO caches should never be a LPC or other "for the numbers".

 

i don't have a lot of finds. i haven't found the PMO caches to be any better or worse than regular caches.

 

i haven't found a cache i didn't like though...it's all fun.

[+dfx]

i'm just glad i can play for free! It's part of what i like about this game. i used to spend time in nature for free...now i have things to search for while i'm there!

and it's perfectly fine if you do that, it's just that you can't use or do certain things that way: 1) pocket queries, 2) bookmarks, 3) unlimited watchlist, 4) log certain caches.

[+LukeTrocity]

I like the idea of them. I figure if you set up a special cache that you put a lot of time into, you probably don't want it raided, destroyed or stolen. A Premium Member is less likely to do this since they actually invested money into it.

[+roziecakes]

Reviewers won't approve a premium cache if it is a bison tube, right???

 

I've found several PMO bison tubes in my day...

[Mr.Yuck]

Isn't this site supported by the ads on it? i thought that's how sites remained free like Google and CrackBerry.

if that's what you think, where do you think the money from all the PMs goes?

 

Corporate greed?

 

Same place as where the money goes when someone buys an $11 sticker that took .50 cents to make.

 

i don't really know.

 

Well, It's been shown that PM's are at least a couple million dollars in revenues per year. But I'd think the sale of aluminum tags that cost about a penny to manufacture for $5.95 a pop, or a cut of every single one of the (I wouldn't even want to guess how many) trackable geocoins that have been manufactured, ever, would be where the big money comes in. Plus the ads of course.

 

Which is therefore why I think this "rewarding people for supporting the website" with MOC's nonsense is absurd. This leads to perceived elitism by the non-members. On top of all that, the only reason MOC's were created were to combat cache piracy, not so you could reward people for plonking down $3.00 a month to a profitable company with 50 full time employees.

 

So put me down for being agin' them. They are ineffective for their intended purpose of combatting cache piracy anyways.

[+StarBrand]

The game is for everyone - always has been. It is a very small subset of caches that ever got marked PMO.

 

Nothing special about PMO caches at all. Most are/were that way just for a period of time for PM cachers to find. Then the attribute was removed for others.

[+t4e]

If Premium Membership was a one time fee, i'd buy it. i just don't make enough to budget towards this. Maybe in the future!

 

take time and think about it, premium membership can't be a one time thing due to increasing costs and constant development that this site needs as more and more people sign up

 

 

Not trying to be nasty but let's do the math.

 

$30/52weeks=58¢per week

 

How much did you spend on coffee or and/od Mt.Dew (or whatever) last week? It's seriously cheap for the entertainment buck.

 

thanks, i thought i am the only one looking at things that way, just got hammered the other day on some thread for making such a comparison

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

As for my reasons for PMO caches. The better ones are PMO (only a couple). New folks can find all the regular ones but then know that even better ones are available if they participate in the game with $$. If no one became a PMO, then this site would go away.

 

Isn't this site supported by the ads on it? i thought that's how sites remained free like Google and CrackBerry. If not, then i *really* appreciate those who are paying so i can play for free!

 

Although i did buy the BlackBerry app at $19.99. If Premium Membership was a one time fee, i'd buy it. i just don't make enough to budget towards this. Maybe in the future!

 

Not trying to be nasty but let's do the math.

 

$30/52weeks=58¢per week

 

How much did you spend on coffee or and/od Mt.Dew (or whatever) last week? It's seriously cheap for the entertainment buck.

Great Answer!

[+t4e]

This is how we do it here, but it's not always the case. IMO, PMO caches "should" be the better ones (either for location or quality). PMO caches should never be a LPC or other "for the numbers".

hmmm... i wonder what would happen if all caches from that ET powertrail would be set to PMO...

 

Well now I get to clean the screen.

 

here, this might help Screen Cleaner

 

Edited July 9, 2010 by t4e

[+unclefunky]

I'm not sure exactly what I think is right, but here is my stance:

 

Groundspeak designed the Premium Member only cache option for likely two reasons

A) To prevent cheap cache burglars from accessing certain caches &

To add another function to the Premium Membership.

 

I don't personally have a problem with PMO caches, even when I was a regular member because I understand their purpose. Now obviously, I am a little dissapointed to go find a PMO cache to discover it is a keyholder under a bench; why not allow new cachers just looking for a simple quick find to grab it for free?

 

The flip side of this function is that COs who are concerned about the safety of their cache be it because it is a trackable hotel or cool container, can keep it protected and hidden from potential "Evil" cachers. There are very few of them out there, but there are also very few targets. No person who is low enough to steal a cache or part of it is willing to buy a Premium Membership, and the PMO function is able to weed out these people from great caches, even if it weeds out some regular cachers as well.

unclefunky

Edited July 8, 2010 by unclefunky

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

As for my reasons for PMO caches. The better ones are PMO (only a couple). New folks can find all the regular ones but then know that even better ones are available if they participate in the game with $$. If no one became a PMO, then this site would go away.

 

Isn't this site supported by the ads on it? i thought that's how sites remained free like Google and CrackBerry. If not, then i *really* appreciate those who are paying so i can play for free!

 

Although i did buy the BlackBerry app at $19.99. If Premium Membership was a one time fee, i'd buy it. i just don't make enough to budget towards this. Maybe in the future!

 

Not trying to be nasty but let's do the math.

 

$30/52weeks=58¢per week

 

How much did you spend on coffee or and/od Mt.Dew (or whatever) last week? It's seriously cheap for the entertainment buck.

Great Answer!

 

That's why i don't buy a membership. Yes, it's less than that coffee and soda but we have to chose what we put our money towards, right!

 

Being vegan is expensive (very expensive relative to my income). i have to really be selective what i spend my income on. Healthy food (and my ethos) is more important to me.

 

Like i said previously, that caching is free is a major draw for me. If i *had* to buy the membership, i wouldn't cache. i would be really disappointed if that was the case.

But also, there's just so many free caches that i can't complain about PMO caches at all. i would be against them if they were the majority.

 

i don't think this website would shut down if all there weren't Premium Members. The sales and ads are enough. The mods and reviewers are volunteers. The players come up with the content. The site hosts it.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

I'm not sure exactly what I think is right, but here is my stance:

 

Groundspeak designed the Premium Member only cache option for likely two reasons

A) To prevent cheap cache burglars from accessing certain caches &

To add another function to the Premium Membership.

 

I don't personally have a problem with PMO caches, even when I was a regular member because I understand their purpose. Now obviously, I am a little dissapointed to go find a PMO cache to discover it is a keyholder under a bench; why not allow new cachers just looking for a simple quick find to grab it for free?

 

The flip side of this function is that COs who are concerned about the safety of their cache be it because it is a trackable hotel or cool container, can keep it protected and hidden from potential "Evil" cachers. There are very few of them out there, but there are also very few targets. No person who is low enough to steal a cache or part of it is willing to buy a Premium Membership, and the PMO function is able to weed out these people from great caches, even if it weeds out some regular cachers as well.

 

i'm not any less honest or diligent because i'm a "regular cacher." i don't understand your logic. i don't have a lot of money...so i'm more likely to "muggle" a cache. That's not true. The swag isn't good enough to steal! Haha.

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

I'm not sure exactly what I think is right, but here is my stance:

 

Groundspeak designed the Premium Member only cache option for likely two reasons

A) To prevent cheap cache burglars from accessing certain caches &

To add another function to the Premium Membership.

 

I don't personally have a problem with PMO caches, even when I was a regular member because I understand their purpose. Now obviously, I am a little dissapointed to go find a PMO cache to discover it is a keyholder under a bench; why not allow new cachers just looking for a simple quick find to grab it for free?

 

The flip side of this function is that COs who are concerned about the safety of their cache be it because it is a trackable hotel or cool container, can keep it protected and hidden from potential "Evil" cachers. There are very few of them out there, but there are also very few targets. No person who is low enough to steal a cache or part of it is willing to buy a Premium Membership, and the PMO function is able to weed out these people from great caches, even if it weeds out some regular cachers as well.

 

i'm not any less honest or diligent because i'm a "regular cacher." i don't understand your logic. i don't have a lot of money...so i'm more likely to "muggle" a cache. That's not true. The swag isn't good enough to steal! Haha.

 

It ain't always all about you. There have been instances of what is often referred to as cache piracy. The cache pirate steals caches just to wreck the fun of other or for some perceived, altruistic higher purpose. Many of these pirates, or maggots, are too cheap to pop for a PM. In these cases making the local caches PM is a way to protect them. So no, nobody thinks you are gonna steal them.