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Extremely Remote or "Expedition" caches


Lemon Fresh Dog
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Hello all.

 

In the next month or so, I am going to an area that is, for lack of a better term, in the middle of nowhere. It's gorgeous, wonderful and a place of epic natural beauty. In a perfect world, I would love to place a cache somewhere in the site - the type of cache that *might* be found a couple times a year - at most.

 

The problem is - it's not like I will visit this place more than once or twice every 5-10 years myself. It's really in the middle of nowhere and there are plenty of other places in the middle of nowhere I would like to visit as well. It's hard to get to and requires some planning.

 

For those of you that climb - this is similar to a "Peak Log" type of cache (although, in my case it will be more sea-level). Peak logs are very common on most mountains, and depending on the difficulty in climbing said peak - can remain unvisited for years.

 

So what about these types of caches? Obviously, there would be little little maintenance required and/or available and they would also most likely be far from ones home coordinates.

 

Allowed? Not allowed? Should be allowed? Shouldn't be allowed? Add to the "game"? Do nothing for the "game"?

 

So many questions. Hopefully I can get some answers to decide how to proceed. (if I can)

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My thoughts, and I'm nobody important, are that if you are not able to maintain it if it does happen to be necessary, you shouldn't put the cache there. Sounds like a great spot, but placing a cache that you can't deal with if needed is irresponsible and may not be approved by the local reviewer anyway. Check with the reviewer for the area though, I'm just as likely to be wrong as I am to be right.

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The problem is - it's not like I will visit this place more than once or twice every 5-10 years myself. It's really in the middle of nowhere and there are plenty of other places in the middle of nowhere I would like to visit as well. It's hard to get to and requires some planning.

 

This sounds like a "vacation cache", and shouldn't be published. If you can't regularly do maintenance you shouldn't put a cache there. Try a Waymark instead.

 

Also, didn't GS say they were going to start cracking down on remote caches that go unfound for long periods of time?

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The problem is - it's not like I will visit this place more than once or twice every 5-10 years myself. It's really in the middle of nowhere and there are plenty of other places in the middle of nowhere I would like to visit as well. It's hard to get to and requires some planning.

 

This sounds like a "vacation cache", and shouldn't be published. If you can't regularly do maintenance you shouldn't put a cache there. Try a Waymark instead.

 

Also, didn't GS say they were going to start cracking down on remote caches that go unfound for long periods of time?

 

This would be a shame, these are the favorites of a large portion of the GC population...

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Ask your reviewer. In fact, in this case, I think I might go directly to geocaching.com. They approved the ISS cache. They approved the deep sea thermal vents cache. I think they like (as do we!) the fact that there are such remote and extreme caches. Make sure that it is an ammo can... probably not much else that can survive such extremes without maintenance. Good luck!

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I think I disagree with most here. I say get an ammo can or equally rugged container that will last, and place it where its well hidden and not going to harm anything in the area. If the cache is as remote as you state, its unlikely that anyone would make it out there more then once every few years. But if its also as beautiful as you say, the one or possibly two finders who find it a year are really going to appreciate it.

 

Being here in Nevada we have many caches that are "out in the middle of nowhere". These caches tend to last forever, simply because there is never anyone around to harm them, their only enemy being the elements. They are also some of the most rewarding caches to get to. The cachers that also tend to find these styles of caches also seem to be much more likely to repair the cache if they find something wrong with it. I think they are extremely different than a "vacation" style cache thats placed in an area where they are likely to muggled.

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If you want to place a physical cache there but wouldn't be able to maintain it you could try talking to people on local or regional forums to see if there are more local cachers who would be prepared to maintain it for you. Then if you explain to the reviewer that you have a maintenance plan you should be fine.

 

An earthcache would be another option as there would be no physical container to maintain.

 

I agree that caches in remote and beautiful locations are some of the best around.

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If you want to place a physical cache there but wouldn't be able to maintain it you could try talking to people on local or regional forums to see if there are more local cachers who would be prepared to maintain it for you. Then if you explain to the reviewer that you have a maintenance plan you should be fine.

 

An earthcache would be another option as there would be no physical container to maintain.

 

I agree that caches in remote and beautiful locations are some of the best around.

 

I respectfully completely disagree. People need to be willing and able to maintain their own caches, beautiful location or otherwise. If the OP were to be passing through even once a year, it would be different, but as I recall he said he might make it back 5 years from now? Expecting the geocaching community to maintain your cache for 5 years just isn't okay as I see it. The earthcache idea is the best that's been proposed I think. Maybe that's where you should go with it.

 

The local reviewer will have your answer.

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Hello all.

 

Allowed? Not allowed? Should be allowed? Shouldn't be allowed? Add to the "game"? Do nothing for the "game"?

 

So many questions. Hopefully I can get some answers to decide how to proceed. (if I can)

 

My bet is it will not be allowed. But should be. It is the game.

 

I am lucky that I have an alternative viable listing site. These type caches are maintained by the community. It is a much smaller community of cachers. Maybe we are more respectful.

 

A good container. In a protected spot will outlast any urban nano/micro. A pity a corporation will make the decision for you.

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I think I disagree with most here. I say get an ammo can or equally rugged container that will last, and place it where its well hidden and not going to harm anything in the area. If the cache is as remote as you state, its unlikely that anyone would make it out there more then once every few years. But if its also as beautiful as you say, the one or possibly two finders who find it a year are really going to appreciate it.

 

 

Bad advice because if he does that and does not have a viable plan to maintain the cache it probably won't be published.

Edited by briansnat
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...as I recall he said he might make it back 5 years from now? Expecting the geocaching community to maintain your cache for 5 years just isn't okay as I see it.

 

A well-placed ammo can cache in a remote area shouldn't need any maintainence, unless it's an area that sees frequent earthquake/flood/volcano/etc activity. There are caches right here in the crowded Northeast that are still going strong with no owner or community maintainence.

 

But it's none of my business, since I'll never have a chance to visit any remote caches. Still, I like the idea that they're out there.

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The area that I would like to place a cache would require a journey by boat to the end of a remote lake and the head of a river. This river then leads through another remote area to the ocean. What makes it an interesting trek is the fact that it follows an ancient trading route of the native people from the area.

 

There is likely very few people that will be able to get there - let alone do any maintenance if someone reports it as missing (also unlikely as the area is very much unvisited). It would be a long trip for sure. I'd even be hesitant to suggest a float plane as the end of the lake is full of old logs. The lake sits between two steep mountains. (you can look it up - Woss Lake, British Columbia).

 

I have actually placed three "vacation" caches there in the "olden" days, but they are maintained by my family and I can get to those ones very easily. They are less "vacation" than they are "second home" caches.

 

This one certainly falls into a different "category" of cache though. To be honest, it's the type of cache I would prefer to find - nothing against nano caches every 700m in the city (sarcasm).

 

The question is - If it's not "maintainable" is is litter? Going back to my original analogy, here where I live (the Rockies) we have plenty of "peak" logs. These have been around since as far back as people started climbing the mountains, but there really isn't a concerted effort on the part of the person placing the log to climb the mountain every year to check it (and given that many were placed in the late 1800's to early 1900's - the original "cacher" is likely dead). That would be pretty difficult to say the least.

 

Maybe this doesn't really fall into the hobby of Geocaching. I was just looking to combine a couple of interests.

Edited by Lemon Fresh Dog
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The area that I would like to place a cache would require a journey by boat to the end of a remote lake and the head of a river. This river then leads through another remote area to the ocean. What makes it an interesting trek is the fact that it follows an ancient trading route of the native people from the area.

 

There is likely very few people that will be able to get there - let alone do any maintenance if someone reports it as missing (also unlikely as the area is very much unvisited). It would be a long trip for sure. I'd even be hesitant to suggest a float plane as the end of the lake is full of old logs. The lake sits between two steep mountains. (you can look it up - Woss Lake, British Columbia).

 

I have actually placed three "vacation" caches there in the "olden" days, but they are maintained by my family and I can get to those ones very easily. They are less "vacation" than they are "second home" caches.

 

This one certainly falls into a different "category" of cache though. To be honest, it's the type of cache I would prefer to find - nothing against nano caches every 700m in the city (sarcasm).

 

The question is - If it's not "maintainable" is is litter? Going back to my original analogy, here where I live (the Rockies) we have plenty of "peak" logs. These have been around since as far back as people started climbing the mountains, but there really isn't a concerted effort on the part of the person placing the log to climb the mountain every year to check it (and given that many were placed in the late 1800's to early 1900's - the original "cacher" is likely dead). That would be pretty difficult to say the least.

 

Maybe this doesn't really fall into the hobby of Geocaching. I was just looking to combine a couple of interests.

 

Place the cache man. I found a geocache (GC326C) that was placed in January of 2002. I found the cache in March 2010. The cache is a medium size ammo can. In a half developed park that the county abandoned. I know the cache says its a two star which might have been the case back in 2002. But with all the rainfall from 2002 till now plus all the overgrowth. The cache could easily be classified as a four star. At one point I found myself walking almost waist deep in dead leafs. Thinking to myself that this has to be where they filmed the Blair Witch Project. When I found the cache the log was perfectly dry. To which I might add that the cache was placed on a bank of a one time little stream. Ammo cans make the best extreme caches. Theres a reason why the military still uses them. As far as the maintence side I wouldn't worry about it. As long as you place te cache where its not going to swept away by a river. Which honestly you have a better chance of a muggle teenager destorying an urban cache than Mother nature decideing to swallow up your cache. Just make sure to explain the situation in cache page. And ask anyone who is going to be atempting the cache to please be prepared to preform some maintance. As the area is very remote. Look at it this way the cache I found the owner hasn't logged in since January of 2008. And his first cache is one of the oldest caches in my area. Which I am saving for my 100th cache (GC29AO). Look at it this way man the people who are going to atempting to find your cache are going to be out there for the real reason. Your cache is just a bonus.

Edited by Shrekito
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Hello all.

 

In the next month or so, I am going to an area that is, for lack of a better term, in the middle of nowhere. It's gorgeous, wonderful and a place of epic natural beauty. In a perfect world, I would love to place a cache somewhere in the site - the type of cache that *might* be found a couple times a year - at most.

 

The problem is - it's not like I will visit this place more than once or twice every 5-10 years myself. It's really in the middle of nowhere and there are plenty of other places in the middle of nowhere I would like to visit as well. It's hard to get to and requires some planning.

 

For those of you that climb - this is similar to a "Peak Log" type of cache (although, in my case it will be more sea-level). Peak logs are very common on most mountains, and depending on the difficulty in climbing said peak - can remain unvisited for years.

 

So what about these types of caches? Obviously, there would be little little maintenance required and/or available and they would also most likely be far from ones home coordinates.

 

Allowed? Not allowed? Should be allowed? Shouldn't be allowed? Add to the "game"? Do nothing for the "game"?

 

So many questions. Hopefully I can get some answers to decide how to proceed. (if I can)

 

I say go for it. This type of cache provides incentive for those wanting to go see the wild places with a reason to do it.

 

I like this type of cache because the CO has generally done the legwork needed to set an enjoyable trip up -- where to park, what equipment is needed, how long it will take, etc. Without this, I might not know such an area existed, or how to get to it.

 

Since you won't be able to get back to the cache too often, I'd suggest putting out a sturdy, waterproof container in a sheltered area. This way the cache integrity is more likely to be preserved.

 

Take some pictures from different angles/distances of the hide, so you'll know in 5 years where you put it, and you can provide cachers with some good info on how to find it. I like hunting for hard to find caches, but not when they're at the end of a long and arduous trek. I'd rather have a fairly easy hunt at the GZ, so I can enjoy the trip AND finding a remote cache -- not be frustrated at a lack of success after all the work to get there.

 

Since the cache is far out, and you wouldn't be able to check on it yourself, you could ask those looking for it to apprise you of it's condition. I'd be willing to help restock such a cache, just to keep it available.

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Man, this sounds like a dream cache for me! I mean, how many people *really* live that close to such a remote location? If we had to wait for a local to place a cache near the middle of nowhere, there really wouldn't be any backcountry caches, and some of us daydream of going on an expedition like this. If worse came to worse, the cache could be archived. Given the complete inability people have found getting responses from people in their own city about lamp post caches down the road from the owner, I just don't see this as much more risky.

 

But, I'm still a newbie, so I am sure I don't have my finger on the pulse of caching culture and reviewer preferences and policies yet.

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If you want to place a physical cache there but wouldn't be able to maintain it you could try talking to people on local or regional forums to see if there are more local cachers who would be prepared to maintain it for you. Then if you explain to the reviewer that you have a maintenance plan you should be fine.

 

An earthcache would be another option as there would be no physical container to maintain.

 

I agree that caches in remote and beautiful locations are some of the best around.

 

I respectfully completely disagree. People need to be willing and able to maintain their own caches, beautiful location or otherwise. If the OP were to be passing through even once a year, it would be different, but as I recall he said he might make it back 5 years from now? Expecting the geocaching community to maintain your cache for 5 years just isn't okay as I see it. The earthcache idea is the best that's been proposed I think. Maybe that's where you should go with it.

 

The local reviewer will have your answer.

 

The guidelines allow for "maintenance plans" that may include having a local help out. It's still at the reviewer's discretion, but your take on this issue is much harsher than the guidelines are.

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Fair enough. I guess it's just not something I'd do. If the OP, who by the way seems like he/she would be a very responsible owner, won't be around for several years at a time, why not assist a local with the hide, or adopt it out to someone who is more readily available for maintainence?

 

Just a different mindset, and as I don't even enforce the rules, nevermind make them, my opinion matters as much as the guy walking by me right now who has nothing to do with geocaching.

 

I do wish you luck though, and meant what I said about wanting to hunt for your cache.

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We have caches here that were put out by tourists who only come up here once a year or once every few years. I know the community maintained some but then gave up on them. Some are in harder to get to more remote locations as well.

 

Most members of the caching community have their own caches to maintain and there's some like me who don't have time to properly maintain my own cache at the moment let alone take on someone elses.

 

Unless this places is extremely remote, I would leave the spot open for one of the local caching community to place their own cache which would have a better chance at being maintained. I don't believe in placing stuff just to place it only to have other people have to take care of it.

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