Found one day, destroyed the next--proper logging

[+LSUFan]

Howdy Everyone...long time listener, first time caller.

 

I am needing some advice on how you would log a situation to the NGS. On May 30th, I found benchmark CP1056, which is on the side of the Pioneer High School building.

 

There was a demolition company on site, that was tearing the school down, and trying to save the bricks, etc. The disk was still on the building, but I was informed that the school would be totally demolished within a few weeks. The guys there, gave me the card from the owner of the company, who I tried to contact unsuccessfully. I was wanting him to save the disk, but couldn't get him to answer a call or email. I was back in the area a few weeks later, and everything was gone......disk, building, crew.

 

Anyhow, I am just now getting around to logging it all. I logged it with gc.com as a find (pics included), but am not sure how I should do it with the NGS.

 

I know the consensus seems to be not to log anything as destroyed, since it removes the information from the current database......and I don't actually have the disk to prove my point........but I know without a doubt it's gone.

 

Would ya submit a recovery report as a find for May 30th, and add a note that it was going to be removed/destroyed.......or just log a dnf from June 19th?

 

Thanks for any advice you care to share.

 

P.S. I think I am getting too involved with this because I sure hated to see a disk from 1934 go by the wayside....especially with all the history of that school.

 

http://img.geocaching.com/benchmark/lg/212...e44ecd4c6d5.jpg

Edited July 1, 2010 by LSUFan

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

I would log it as destroyed on both the GC site and the NGS site. If you witnessed the mark in its original, undisturbed setting, such as on the side of a building, AND witnessed the location of said building after the building had been demolished, that's plenty of evidence of destruction, whether or not you have the mark to prove it. You may not be able to verify the mark, but you can verify the condition of the mark's setting as destroyed.

- Kewaneh

[southpawaz]

I'd submit it as destroyed to the NGS, and let Deb decide whether to accept your evidence or not. That's her call. I'm not one that believes we should be reporting different than what we find to "keep data in the database."

 

On GC.com, I'd probably log a find on the date it was found, and also log it as destroyed as of the date the building is gone.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I'll agree. If it has been destroyed, notify Deb. She makes the determination. If you have before and after photos, she will probably accept that. But, she does require proof. I've managed to get three marked as destroyed.

IMHO, there are far too many missing benchmarks listed. Oh, well. We offer our best advice. NGS uses its best judgement.

BC0038 New bridge built in 2002. I have no proof that it was destroyed, just that there is a new bridge at this location. My log is something like: New bridge at this location built in 2002. "Not recovered, not found." (Okay. For GC, I logged: This one is gone.)

Since you do have the proof, log on NGS "Not recovered, not found", explaining the reasons. E-mail Deb, with the photos, and suggest to her that it be marked 'destroyed'

For GC, I would log the find for when you found it, and 'destroyed' with the before and after photos.

[AZcachemeister]

I would log it the way you 'found' it on the dates you were there, on both sites.

I would then PM Deb and describe the situation, mentioning the photos. If she wants to see the photos, she'll ask for them.

The site states that some sort of 'proof of destruction' is required, but I hear Deb can and will mark a station as destroyed, just on the word of a reliable source...

[+LSUFan]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Ya always come thru for me. I didn't think to take pics of the school after it was removed (or actually the space where it used to be), but may be back that way in a week or so to do just that.

 

On another note, I found a triangulation station this morning, and did find it's azimuth mark destroyed, with the disk separated from the setting (which was laying on it's side). I swept the area with a metal detector and did find the actual disk itself buried in the dirt. This should be easy to show Deb that it's destroyed.

Edited July 4, 2010 by LSUFan

[mloser]

I also don't believe that we should be reporting Not Found for marks that are clearly destroyed. They remain in the database and can be found by specialized queries even when marked Destroyed.

 

I have had good luck with Deb in getting marks declared destroyed where I was aware of the previous location and status of a mark and even though I didn't actually get or see the disk she trusted me enough to believe that I knew what I was talking about. Link to GC.com

[Bill93]

>its azimuth mark destroyed

 

Unless the az mark has its own PID, all you do is note it in the FOUND/NF recovery report for the main station.

[+LSUFan]

>its azimuth mark destroyed

 

Unless the az mark has its own PID, all you do is note it in the FOUND/NF recovery report for the main station.

 

Bill, that was a good catch, where I should have been more clear. Yes, it did have it's own PID....which I should have pointed out. My bad.

 

I did note it in the recovery report for the station CP1647 as well as submit a destroyed report for the actual mark CP1645.

 

Would ya mind checking the links out for these stations and seeing if I did it correct? I made the PID numbers above, links to the gc.com page for them.

 

Thanks so much

[68-eldo]

IIRC there was a discussion about this. The idea was to report a not found with a description of what was done to find it or the reason you believe it was destroyed. Then ask Deb to mark it destroyed. That way there is a record of why it was marked destroyed.

[mloser]

I remember that discussion. One thing that concerned me was that we were making Deb do double work. I don't think she ever checked in on this topic. In fact, did anyone at the NGS give us an idea of how the NGS would like this done? I would be happy to follow a semi-official protocol if we had one.

 

I wonder if we could ask Deb to put some text that we could provide, e.g. "Monument found broken" in the description when she marked it destroyed. Then she could do it in a single step.