Report from Nevada

[+WalruZ]

Perhaps you're familiar with the power trail that has been laid in near Area 51 in the Nevada desert. 1000+ caches over 100 miles, one every .1 mile.

 

I was chastised on our local forums for contending that anyone who thought this had any redeeming aspects at all was working with a few screws loose. Perhaps that was a little strong, but yeah - that's how I feel. Really, this has more in common with competitive eating than it does with GeoCaching.

 

--- So, I speak with someone who has just returned from there. Close to 1000 caches in 24 hours. But consider what people are doing...

 

"LeapFrogging" -- A master team is assembled. Three cars with one sub-team each go out. Each car does every 3rd cache and signs in everyone in the master team.

 

"Traveling" -- The 'jumper' grabs the cache and substitutes another similar cache, then runs back to the car. While traveling to the next cache, they sign the whole team into the cache that they 'took'. At the next cache they trade the 'taken' cache for the cache they find, which repeats the process.

 

Lord knows what else. Even if you just do it straight up, stopping every 0.1 miles and signing the cache your own self, what have you really done, and why would you do it?

 

 

Honestly, why in the world do people want to go do this? Can't you see how crazy it is? How could you explain this to a normal person without having them consider committing you for observation? What has become of us?

[+ihorn]

Perhaps you're familiar with the power trail that has been laid in near Area 51 in the Nevada desert. 1000+ caches over 100 miles, one every .1 mile.

 

I was chastised on our local forums for contending that anyone who thought this had any redeeming aspects at all was working with a few screws loose. Perhaps that was a little strong, but yeah - that's how I feel. Really, this has more in common with competitive eating than it does with GeoCaching.

 

--- So, I speak with someone who has just returned from there. Close to 1000 caches in 24 hours. But consider what people are doing...

 

"LeapFrogging" -- A master team is assembled. Three cars with one sub-team each go out. Each car does every 3rd cache and signs in everyone in the master team.

 

"Traveling" -- The 'jumper' grabs the cache and substitutes another similar cache, then runs back to the car. While traveling to the next cache, they sign the whole team into the cache that they 'took'. At the next cache they trade the 'taken' cache for the cache they find, which repeats the process.

 

Lord knows what else. Even if you just do it straight up, stopping every 0.1 miles and signing the cache your own self, what have you really done, and why would you do it?

 

 

Honestly, why in the world do people want to go do this? Can't you see how crazy it is? How could you explain this to a normal person without having them consider committing you for observation? What has become of us?

 

The only answer I have for you, as I am sure people who have been around longer will also say is that people play the game differently. Some people play the game just to get the highest find count they can, or just for the numbers. In my opinion that is the only reason that these kinds of power trails are created. Then again I am still new at this, so what do I know. I will wait to see what others who have done this longer have to say.

[+roziecakes]

Yep, if you don't like it, don't do it. Let others play how they want to play. The beauty of this game is that there are options for everyone. As long as everyone follows the guidelines, let 'em be!

 

There is already a really active current thread going on right now about this power trail that you might want to check out:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=252344

[Andronicus]

LeapFrogging and Traveling, the way you have defined it are definatly in the "crossed the line" catagory (read Cheating). Teams with only one guy actualy signing the log, or the driver not getting out, those are all in proximity to the line, but I would say on the fair play side of it. Those you described are on the other side.

 

As to why they do giant power trails, well, why does someone train for years for a >10second race (100m sprint)? Or, why do I get up at 0400h, just to drive 3.5h, just to climb a mountain, just to find a survey marker on the top? Or, why do you enjoy finding junk in the forest? I don't know, but I do know that everyone gets their thrills in verious ways.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Andronicus

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

"LeapFrogging" -- A master team is assembled. Three cars with one sub-team each go out. Each car does every 3rd cache and signs in everyone in the master team.

 

"Traveling" -- The 'jumper' grabs the cache and substitutes another similar cache, then runs back to the car. While traveling to the next cache, they sign the whole team into the cache that they 'took'. At the next cache they trade the 'taken' cache for the cache they find, which repeats the process.

 

Lame! So if I get a team of 1000 people together and set it up right our team can log 1000 caches in one minute, correct? Or do I have to arrange to shift them all .10 mile to the left? that might take a few minutes longer.

[+Team Cotati]

It might be possible for this to be more hilarious, but for the life of me, I can't see how.

 

Astounding.

[knowschad]

Remember when frisbees were tossed gently across the park by people that smelled of patchouli, wearing long hair and tie-dyed t-shirts? Then there was "power frisbee" for a while. Now.. well, been to a disc golf course recently? That doesn't mean that you can't still go to the park and gently toss that frisbee around (aside from the fact that your favorite park may now be a disc golf park!)

[+geodarts]

Misread OP. I leap frogged over something.

Edited June 22, 2010 by mulvaney

[+joukkusisu]

Thank you for calling it disc golf and not frisbee golf, or frolf. I love disc golf. IMO, more fun and cheaper than "ball golf."

[Mr.Yuck]

Perhaps you're familiar with the power trail that has been laid in near Area 51 in the Nevada desert. 1000+ caches over 100 miles, one every .1 mile.

 

I was chastised on our local forums for contending that anyone who thought this had any redeeming aspects at all was working with a few screws loose. Perhaps that was a little strong, but yeah - that's how I feel. Really, this has more in common with competitive eating than it does with GeoCaching.

 

--- So, I speak with someone who has just returned from there. Close to 1000 caches in 24 hours. But consider what people are doing...

 

"LeapFrogging" -- A master team is assembled. Three cars with one sub-team each go out. Each car does every 3rd cache and signs in everyone in the master team.

 

"Traveling" -- The 'jumper' grabs the cache and substitutes another similar cache, then runs back to the car. While traveling to the next cache, they sign the whole team into the cache that they 'took'. At the next cache they trade the 'taken' cache for the cache they find, which repeats the process.

 

Lord knows what else. Even if you just do it straight up, stopping every 0.1 miles and signing the cache your own self, what have you really done, and why would you do it?

 

 

Honestly, why in the world do people want to go do this? Can't you see how crazy it is? How could you explain this to a normal person without having them consider committing you for observation? What has become of us?

 

The only answer I have for you, as I am sure people who have been around longer will also say is that people play the game differently. Some people play the game just to get the highest find count they can, or just for the numbers. In my opinion that is the only reason that these kinds of power trails are created. Then again I am still new at this, so what do I know. I will wait to see what others who have done this longer have to say.

 

Oh c'mon, to heck with the people who have been around longer. People play the game differently, and I couldn't care less if this stuff is really going on. This doesn't mean I can't sit here and shake my head though.

 

Ultimately, I think the power trail experiment all while the guidelines still stay "please don't place a cache every 528 feet just because you can" will fail on it's own merits, eventually. We certainly saw where it didn't fly elsewhere in the Desert.

[+mchaos]

Perhaps you're familiar with the power trail that has been laid in near Area 51 in the Nevada desert. 1000+ caches over 100 miles, one every .1 mile.

 

I was chastised on our local forums for contending that anyone who thought this had any redeeming aspects at all was working with a few screws loose. Perhaps that was a little strong, but yeah - that's how I feel. Really, this has more in common with competitive eating than it does with GeoCaching.

 

--- So, I speak with someone who has just returned from there. Close to 1000 caches in 24 hours. But consider what people are doing...

 

"LeapFrogging" -- A master team is assembled. Three cars with one sub-team each go out. Each car does every 3rd cache and signs in everyone in the master team.

 

"Traveling" -- The 'jumper' grabs the cache and substitutes another similar cache, then runs back to the car. While traveling to the next cache, they sign the whole team into the cache that they 'took'. At the next cache they trade the 'taken' cache for the cache they find, which repeats the process.

 

Lord knows what else. Even if you just do it straight up, stopping every 0.1 miles and signing the cache your own self, what have you really done, and why would you do it?

 

 

Honestly, why in the world do people want to go do this? Can't you see how crazy it is? How could you explain this to a normal person without having them consider committing you for observation? What has become of us?

 

Well I am sure there will be something similar here eventually...

 

I might be.... at this point LoL...

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Yep, if you don't like it, don't do it. Let others play how they want to play. The beauty of this game is that there are options for everyone. As long as everyone follows the guidelines, let 'em be!

 

 

I see this argument made frequently about power trails and disagree with it. Having different ways to play the game is fine, as long as how one person plays the game doesn't impact how someone else plays the game. IMHO, power trails and those that hide and seek caches solely for the number degrades geocaching for everyone else. It encourages terse cut-n-paste logs, unimaginative hides, and the sheer number of caches blocks out areas for the kind of cache that others like to find. As I wrote in that other thread, the decision to loosen the guidelines such that power trails like that could be place was the worst decision that Groundspeak has ever made.

[+vw_k]

Yep, if you don't like it, don't do it. Let others play how they want to play. The beauty of this game is that there are options for everyone. As long as everyone follows the guidelines, let 'em be!

 

 

I see this argument made frequently about power trails and disagree with it. Having different ways to play the game is fine, as long as how one person plays the game doesn't impact how someone else plays the game. IMHO, power trails and those that hide and seek caches solely for the number degrades geocaching for everyone else. It encourages terse cut-n-paste logs, unimaginative hides, and the sheer number of caches blocks out areas for the kind of cache that others like to find. As I wrote in that other thread, the decision to loosen the guidelines such that power trails like that could be place was the worst decision that Groundspeak has ever made.

 

Agreed!

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Yep, if you don't like it, don't do it. Let others play how they want to play. The beauty of this game is that there are options for everyone. As long as everyone follows the guidelines, let 'em be!

 

 

I see this argument made frequently about power trails and disagree with it. Having different ways to play the game is fine, as long as how one person plays the game doesn't impact how someone else plays the game. IMHO, power trails and those that hide and seek caches solely for the number degrades geocaching for everyone else. It encourages terse cut-n-paste logs, unimaginative hides, and the sheer number of caches blocks out areas for the kind of cache that others like to find. As I wrote in that other thread, the decision to loosen the guidelines such that power trails like that could be place was the worst decision that Groundspeak has ever made.

 

+1

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Power trails, got no problem, they can be a fun day for a group of folks.

 

The leap-frogging and traveling bit? Geocaching Fail.

[+wimseyguy]

+1

I never cared much about other cachers numbers in the first place.

Now I will care even less if I know they have been to Area 51 and back.

[+geodarts]

I like the idea of a 1000 people along the route, each signing for the group at the same time. A worlds record for the largest group to sign a log. A mega-event icon. Then a big party afterwards at Area 51. Or at least the Little A'le'Inn in Rachel. I'll be there for that.

[knowschad]

I like the idea of a 1000 people along the route, each signing for the group at the same time. A worlds record for the largest group to sign a log. A mega-event icon. Then a big party afterwards at Area 51. Or at least the Little A'le'Inn in Rachel. I'll be there for that.

That would indeed set a new world record, wouldn't it?

[+roziecakes]

Yep, if you don't like it, don't do it. Let others play how they want to play. The beauty of this game is that there are options for everyone. As long as everyone follows the guidelines, let 'em be!

 

 

I see this argument made frequently about power trails and disagree with it. Having different ways to play the game is fine, as long as how one person plays the game doesn't impact how someone else plays the game. IMHO, power trails and those that hide and seek caches solely for the number degrades geocaching for everyone else. It encourages terse cut-n-paste logs, unimaginative hides, and the sheer number of caches blocks out areas for the kind of cache that others like to find. As I wrote in that other thread, the decision to loosen the guidelines such that power trails like that could be place was the worst decision that Groundspeak has ever made.

 

I can see how you would feel that way, but I think there will not be very many power trails made, and I do think that people still have choice. Someone can choose to try the power trail, or they can choose to not want anything to do with it; like you. Both choices are fine I think. I'm going to try the power trail... I probably won't ever want to do it again; but I do want to see because I'm curious. I'm not much of a number runner myself, so we'll see how it pans out.

[+StarBrand]

Thats always been the problem with calling these things 'records'.....no rules set out to follow and little in the ethics.

[+atmospherium]

My humble observation is that these giant power trails have evolved into a game other than geocaching. There doesn't seem to be any "hide something, find something" involved, if these are all identical caches. The old "take some stuff, leave some stuff" no longer applies either.

 

It may be a fun game for those involved, as they devise new and creative ways to grab as many as possible as fast as possible. Nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't call it geocaching anymore. It's clearly going in the direction that virtuals went, before they became Waymarking. Maybe the Frog will catch this drift as well and branch it off into "Leapfrogging" or something.

[+geodarts]

Thats always been the problem with calling these things 'records'.....no rules set out to follow and little in the ethics.

 

The platinum members should do something about this. There needs to be monitoring to ensure that people are not leapfrogging or using other underhanded methods -- the Groundspeak helicopter fleet could be used for this purpose. Then there should be drug testing to ensure that the numbers are not tainted -- we can't let caching go the way of baseball during the McGuire/Sosa/Bonds era. If a record is claimed at a power trail, the CO should be required to verify each signature to ensure that everybody claiming a record actually signed the log (no stickers or groups!). Finally each person should be required to turn in their gps tracks for official inspection by the Department of Records at Groundspeak HQ. Of course, videotaping the entire cache run would also be helpful for instant replay purposes. And penalty points could be assessed for traffic tickets and the like.

 

Of course, the whole thing should get more refined. A power trail of 1/1s is strictly for the amateurs. Professionals should never do any power trail less than 5/5. Its like comparing the little league against major league records.

Edited June 22, 2010 by mulvaney

[+roziecakes]

My humble observation is that these giant power trails have evolved into a game other than geocaching. There doesn't seem to be any "hide something, find something" involved, if these are all identical caches. The old "take some stuff, leave some stuff" no longer applies either.

 

It may be a fun game for those involved, as they devise new and creative ways to grab as many as possible as fast as possible. Nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't call it geocaching anymore. It's clearly going in the direction that virtuals went, before they became Waymarking. Maybe the Frog will catch this drift as well and branch it off into "Leapfrogging" or something.

 

Actually... I honestly agree with this. It's very different than what I would normally consider to be geocaching.

[+DeepButi]

Yep, if you don't like it, don't do it. Let others play how they want to play. The beauty of this game is that there are options for everyone. As long as everyone follows the guidelines, let 'em be!

 

 

I see this argument made frequently about power trails and disagree with it. Having different ways to play the game is fine, as long as how one person plays the game doesn't impact how someone else plays the game. IMHO, power trails and those that hide and seek caches solely for the number degrades geocaching for everyone else. It encourages terse cut-n-paste logs, unimaginative hides, and the sheer number of caches blocks out areas for the kind of cache that others like to find. As I wrote in that other thread, the decision to loosen the guidelines such that power trails like that could be place was the worst decision that Groundspeak has ever made.

 

+1

 

The only power trail around here is a 70 micros one on a 14km nice pathwalk ... I've gone to this pathwalk several times before knowing geocaching because it starts on my childhood small town . I cannot imagine doing this "mini"-power trail spending most of the time picking-up, opening, signing, closing, hidding instead of enjoying the surroundings ... but people likes it . If someone wants to show you a beautifull area there is no need to do that! put one every 2km or so ... Hope Groundspeak changes his mind before power trails like the E.T. one become popular here ... Help!

[knowschad]

My humble observation is that these giant power trails have evolved into a game other than geocaching.

Georacing? Speedcaching? Somebody may want to register those domain names before the frog gets them.

[hoosier guy]

Seems rather odd to do it this way and not the way I play but that is ok too. Somebody else running up numbers really doesn't affect me. I just like going out with my girls & finding a few caches in interesting places.

[+ecanderson]

If the reviewers did an honest assessment of these 0.1m strings of caches, they'd invoke the "power trail" rule and insist that they be turned into multis. That would resolve the problem.

[+Juicepig]

If the reviewers did an honest assessment of these 0.1m strings of caches, they'd invoke the "power trail" rule and insist that they be turned into multis. That would resolve the problem.

 

rules change - note how that rule no longer appears

[+geodarts]

My humble observation is that these giant power trails have evolved into a game other than geocaching. There doesn't seem to be any "hide something, find something" involved, if these are all identical caches. The old "take some stuff, leave some stuff" no longer applies either.

 

Lamp post hides in malls, simply because the area had shockingly few caches, started the game in this direction. The same questions in the OP could be asked of them. Try explaining to your colleagues that you play a game that involves going to a parking lots and lifting a lamp skirt before driving on to the next.

 

And competitive caching has always been with us. FTF mania. Numbers. And now power trails and other "records." Most of that has always seemed like matters of geography, time, and circumstances rather than anything to get excited about one way or the other.

 

You can ignore all of it. Or ignore some of it.

 

I honestly have not decided what I might do along the highway if my wife and I decide to visit Rachel and the A'le'Inn while we are in Vegas to watch professional darts.

Edited June 22, 2010 by mulvaney

[+StarBrand]

If the reviewers did an honest assessment of these 0.1m strings of caches, they'd invoke the "power trail" rule and insist that they be turned into multis. That would resolve the problem.

The guts were torn out of the saturation guideline when the power trail wording and the 'suggest it be a multi' language was dropped.

[+Packanack]

http://www.geocaching.com/map/default.aspx...;zm=13&mt=p

 

 

Power trail caching is not restricted to Nevada.

[+BulldogBlitz]

What has become of us?

 

we've become a society that whines on the internet.

[+wimseyguy]

Well, we can't have whine without:

[+magking1971]

Thanks BulldogBlitz, Now my boss wants to know what is so funny.

[+atmospherium]

Thanks wimseyguy, now I really want some of that Colby Jack. Still two hours to go before quitting time. But I suppose the time will go faster if I actually do some work instead of goofing around on the internet.

[+roziecakes]

Now I want nachos for dinner

[+Dread_Pirate_Bruce]

There are different ways to play the game. When I first discovered urban micros, which was early in my caching career, I had the same thoughts about it not really being "geocaching." However, I quickly realized that I didn't often have the time to go to some forest or desert or mountain to take a hike and look for one or two quality caches. The urban micros gave me the opportunity to go caching on a more convenient basis. What I discovered is that while I like to go to interesting places and I like to hunt for a geocache, seeking a cache, even if just a lame urban micro, is an enjoyable adventure. It is an adventure whether it entails a trek to a scenic location or recognizing that a common object is really not what it appears to be or grabbing something without being spotted by others. And, it is an adventure if it only entails seeing how many caches I can grab in a given hour or day. The power trails fall into this last category.

 

I've done parts of two power trails. I did them because my wife wanted to do them. And, she is not really a cacher. In fact, it these are the only two times she has gone caching ... and she did not log them (though I probably will log them for her.) But for my wife, I would not have bothered. But, in an odd sort of way, it was a fun adventure. We went at a reasonable pace. We found the cache, signed the log, replaced the cache and moved on. We did maintenance on the caches when it was necessary. At least for the latest trail, while the hides were generally pretty easy, just about any one of them could have stood on its own "merits." Had there not been a power trail, just about anyone could have done a single hide that was similar to just about any hide on the trail.

 

I've found caches hidden in unusual piles of rocks or sticks where there are no other caches around, that are no more significant than any of the hides on the trail. I've found caches hidden behind a rock at the base of a post where there are no other caches around, that are no more significant than any of the hides on the trail.

 

While I find any of the individual hides to be pretty lame, taken together, I found the whole thing rather interesting. However, I would have found it more interesting if the caches had been a little further apart. But, it was a grand adventure.