# Box Score

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AY1834| PID Reference Object Distance Geod. Az |

AY1834| dddmmss.s |

AY1834| SASPAMCO RM 2 36.027 METERS 04148 |

AY1834| SASPAMCO AZ MK 1265403.7 |

AY1834| SASPAMCO RM 1 32.538 METERS 13001

Can someone please help me with this. Exactely what is this telling me?? What is 13001 and 04148? Is 1265403.7 126 Deg 54 min 03.7 sec?? From what?? To What?? What is 36.027 meters to where?? From where?? Thanks. HELP!!! ha ha.

hi kwhart,

You can read about a box score here in the benchmark FAQ.

Box score information tells the distance and bearing FROM the triangulation station you're looking for TO the reference marks. If you want to log a find, you must find the triangulation station (it has a triangle in the center of it). You can use the reference marks (they have an arrow in the center that points toward the triangulation station).

In your case, reference mark 2 (RM2) is 36.027 meters at a bearing of 041.48 degrees from the station mark. From the mark, RM1 is 32.538 meters at a bearing of 130 degrees.

hi kwhart,

You can read about a box score here in the benchmark FAQ.

Box score information tells the distance and bearing FROM the triangulation station you're looking for TO the reference marks. If you want to log a find, you must find the triangulation station (it has a triangle in the center of it). You can use the reference marks (they have an arrow in the center that points toward the triangulation station).

In your case, reference mark 2 (RM2) is 36.027 meters at a bearing of 041.48 degrees from the station mark. From the mark, RM1 is 32.538 meters at a bearing of 130 degrees.

Slight correction: azimuths are given in the format dddmmss.s where the seconds may be omitted. Thus RM2 is at azimuth 41 deg 48 min.

kwhart,

You interpreted the AZ bearing correctly. Frequently, down in the TO FIND text, you will get clues as to how far away it is:

AY1834''TO REACH THE AZIMUTH MARK FROM THE STATION, GO SOUTHEAST ON

AY1834''HIGHWAY 181 FOR 0.3 MILE TO THE MARK ON THE LEFT AS DESCRIBED

AY1834''ABOVE.

If no info there work out on the bearing and check at likely spots - usually more than 0.10 mi - where there is inter-visibility. Drawing a bearing arrow on your map will help. Some times there will be clues in nearby DATASHEETS.

To have a complete FIND it is neat to get all RM's and the AZ. Beware that RM and AZ bearings are prone to reciprocal errors, and sometimes are just flat wrong.

SR1136 BEAVER RM 1 Looking south to the west end of the Snowy Mountains in central Montana

Current DS:

SR1136| CQ5026 BEAVER RM 2 8.376 METERS[/u] 04626 |

SR1136| SR1116 LEWISTOWN MUN APT TK AND BCN APPROX.11.3 KM 0892940.4 |

SR1136| RV0763 HORAN APPROX.24.4 KM 1854045.5 |

SR1136| RV0765 MOORE MUNICIPAL TANK APPROX.10.6 KM 2193140.2 |

SR1136| CQ5025 BEAVER RM 1 9.874 METERS 25148 |

SR1136|---------------------------------------------------------------------|

SR1136

lines deleted

SR1136 STATION RECOVERY (2010)

SR1136

SR1136'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2010 (MEL)

SR1136'HH2 470243.9 1093611.2

SR1136'THE DS BEARINGS FOR RM 1 AND 2 ARE IN ERROR, THE BEARINGS FOR THE

SR1136'OTHER REFERENCE OBJECTS ARE APPROXIMATELY CORRECT. DISTANCES MEASURED

SR1136'WITH A TAUT FABRIC TAPE ON A WINDY DAY, THE BEARINGS FROM A HH2

SR1136'SCREEN.

SR1136'RM 1 002 DEGREES 32.45 FT HH2 470244.1 1093611.2.

SR1136'RM 2 175 DEGREES 27.55 FT HH2 470243.5 1093611.0

Happy Hunting. MEL

Most of the reciprocal bearing problems are probably due to the official switch many decades ago from south-based azimuths to north-based azimuths, and not just an accident.

SASPAMCO AZ MK 1265403.7

The box score seldom gives the distance to the Azimuth Mark, but the bearing is very accurate. It helps to know that Azimuth Marks usually are along a highway's right-of-way. Here's how to pull these characteristics together to create a set of coordinates:

Bring up the main station location in GoogleEarth. Hold an index card or protractor on the screen at 126.5 degrees. Look for where the projected line crosses the referenced road. Put the cursor at this point and write down the coordinates which are in the lower left corner of your screen. Enter these into your GPS, and you can drive to the correct spot.

As an alternative, you can drive along the road until your GPS unit indicates that you are 126.5 degrees from the main station. At that point, you are very close. Read the description to determine whether to look toward the left shoulder or to the right.

Happy hunting!

-Paul-

I've used Paul's method to find Az marks, with the correction that your GPS will be reading 126.5+180=306.5 TO the tri station.

Most handhelds probably read out whole degrees. If the distance is more than the common quarter mile, you can improve accuracy slightly by using one of the FORWARD calculation programs to make a couple new waypoints that are on the line from the main station to the Az mark but each side of the likely Az mark position. By setting GOTO on a nearby waypoint,you will see a bigger change in angle as you move around the area, or you can walk the line between waypoints and know that you are within the expected accuracy of the unit.

Most of the reciprocal bearing problems are probably due to the official switch many decades ago from south-based azimuths to north-based azimuths, and not just an accident.

Bill93, Interesting method. How many decades back was this still in use, and do you know of any examples of how this looks in the box score or how it is worded in the calls?

Thanks, MEL

The box score will always be north-based azimuth, because that is computed by algorithm from the position data. Some older descriptions may have south azimuths. A clue is the term "geodetic azimuth" which was in use with the south-based system. North azimuths in the box score are geodetic, too, but that is usually just assumed in modern usage unless magnetic or grid is specified.

I found this quote from DaveD back in 2004:

The azimuths to the reference marks listed in the body of the description for MZ1557 are the azimuths determined from south which was the convention of the U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey (now NGS) prior to the adjustment of the North American Datum of 1983 (NAD 83), when the reference was changed to north. Note in the NGS data sheet the "box score" has the directions reversed to north. South was initially used in the geodetic community in the U.S. because it is commonly used in astronomy since there are more stars on the south side of the meridian in the U.S. than on the north. NGS changed to north azimuths for NAD 83 because the common use in the U.S. surveying community was to north.

Edited by Bill93

Interesting! I am currently hunting down marks set in connection with coast defense (and the Coast Artillery) in New England. The Coast Artillery used South-referenced azimuths for its position-finding and fire control system from the beginning of the 20th Century up to WW2 .

Sorry--system freeze fooled me into double-post.

_________________________

Interesting! I am currently hunting down marks set in connection with coast defense (and the Coast Artillery) in New England. The Coast Artillery used South-referenced azimuths for its position-finding and fire control system from the beginning of the 20th Century up to WW2 .

Edited by pgrig

"Hold an index card or protractor on the screen at 126.5 degrees." --PFF

The Google Earth ruler will show decimal azimuths if you are zoomed out far enough. We sometimes go in close, set the beginning point of the ruler at the main mark, then zoom out far enough that the azimuth kicks in, and snap the line where we need it. Then we can zoom back in and run the cursor along the line at likely spots, in search of sets of coordinates.

Cheers,

-----A clue is the term "geodetic azimuth" ----

All,

Maybe that is what they were trying to say at this one, but the "geodetic azimuth" is not mentioned and the is missing for RM 1.

RM 2 works like a straight up metes and bounds bearing.

Neat arrows, though.

JM0456 CAVE RM 2

JM0456'REFERENCE MARK NO. 1--CHISELED ARROW, IN OUTCROPPING BEDROCK, 26.5

JM0456'FT. FROM STATION, 270 DEG EAST. [s added mel]

JM0456'

JM0456'REFERENCE MARK NO. 2--CHISELED ARROW, IN OUTCROPPING BEDROCK, 34.2

JM0456'FT. FROM STATION, S 15 DEG E.

JM0456

RM's for the nearby JM0461 were found at the reciprocal of the published metes and bounds bearings.

Still getting educated. Thanks, MEL

Slight correction: azimuths are given in the format dddmmss.s where the seconds may be omitted. Thus RM2 is at azimuth 41 deg 48 min.

Ooops!!!

Holy moly andy! With this kind of help I might be able to find all four of this stations marks. Thanks, I REALLY apprecite it. I'll keep you all posted if I find any of this one.

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