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Police Took Cache - Want Me To Come Get It


BikeBill
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i don't leave the house without the geocaching brochures. I've had to give them to nosy neighbors, suspicious onlookers and nervous cops. They defuse the situation immediately.

 

I also tell them that every cache is placed by PERMISSION from the land owner, and if that is not the case, then they should contact the person who hid the cache.

 

You know that isn't true. Why lie? Some day you are gonna tell that to some cop and he's gonna say "Oh Yeah? How about all those mall parking lot caches? Or how about all those highway guardrail hides?"

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i don't leave the house without the geocaching brochures. I've had to give them to nosy neighbors, suspicious onlookers and nervous cops. They defuse the situation immediately.

 

I also tell them that every cache is placed by PERMISSION from the land owner, and if that is not the case, then they should contact the person who hid the cache.

 

You know that isn't true. Why lie? Some day you are gonna tell that to some cop and he's gonna say "Oh Yeah? How about all those mall parking lot caches? Or how about all those highway guardrail hides?"

I act as if every cache I seek has adequate permission. If I come to find out that it does not I file an NA log to ask a Reviewer to investigate the issue.

 

I tell everyone I encounter that every cache requires adequate permission.

 

No need to lie, but no need to get into conversations slicing and dicing the word 'adequate' either.

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Not lying, all caches are supposed to be placed with permission. It's in the rules, whoever doesn't abide is being deceptive.

 

Besides, it usually is explained that caches are SUPPOSED to be placed by permission, and if this one isn't that the authorities should contact the CO.

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i don't leave the house without the geocaching brochures. I've had to give them to nosy neighbors, suspicious onlookers and nervous cops. They defuse the situation immediately.

 

I also tell them that every cache is placed by PERMISSION from the land owner, and if that is not the case, then they should contact the person who hid the cache.

 

You know that isn't true. Why lie? Some day you are gonna tell that to some cop and he's gonna say "Oh Yeah? How about all those mall parking lot caches? Or how about all those highway guardrail hides?"

I act as if every cache I seek has adequate permission. If I come to find out that it does not I file an NA log to ask a Reviewer to investigate the issue.

 

I tell everyone I encounter that every cache requires adequate permission.

 

No need to lie, but no need to get into conversations slicing and dicing the word 'adequate' either.

 

How did I miss your post sneaking in there.

 

Yes, well put.

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Going to the police to retrieve a cache is not unheard of. Landowners will sometimes turn in unauthorized caches to the police. In one case, a local police department apparently created a Geocaching.com account and posted a note: GCPE53.

 

A satellite view of the coordinates suggests the cache was very close to or under the bridge. If that was true, it probably increased the concern of the police.

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Nuff said.

 

Thank you. I was afraid we were going to have to continue a conversation past your POV.

 

Nuff said on my part, but feel free to filibuster. :)

Just in case you missed it, a few have subtly pointed out that the word "adequate" accompanies the permission part in the guidelines. There have been a great many prior discussions here on exactly what that means, but most agree that explicit permission is not always necessary.
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I just find that dismissal to be rather rude whenever I encounter it.

 

 

I just find that dismissal to be rather rude whenever I encounter it.

 

Dismissal? Really? REALLY?

 

i did not "dismiss" you, and if you read anything "rude" into the phrase "Nuff Said," then i can't help you. i did not mean to "dismiss" you in any way, shape or form. i'm sorry if you interpreted it that way.

 

Sheesh.

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This thread should be sung to the tune of "Feliz Navidad".

 

Police took my cache, Police took my cache.

Now they say I gotta come turn myself in.

 

*snorting tea out my nose* :)

 

I will NOT take any responsibility for cleaning your monitor!

 

No worries (.. it went into the keyboard ...)

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Don't let geocaching leave a bad taste in the mouth of the police department. Man up and go get your cache. It's not like they can't get your info and come find you. Sending that email made it seem like you have something to hide. Do you? Do you want them to decide to check out all your caches because you were being somewhat evasive about this?

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Going to the police to retrieve a cache is not unheard of. Landowners will sometimes turn in unauthorized caches to the police. In one case, a local police department apparently created a Geocaching.com account and posted a note: GCPE53.

 

A satellite view of the coordinates suggests the cache was very close to or under the bridge. If that was true, it probably increased the concern of the police.

 

 

Too funny!!!! I can't believe the cops created a log in just to leave you a message. My hubby who is a cop thought the same. After we got into geocaching he started educating his fellow officers about the game. :) He has also devised a cache for cops only in the worst part of town. Instead of bring your own pen its going to be bring your own Kevlar.

 

Back to the topic. Go get your cache. Educate the officers while your there. Who know maybe you'll be the catalyst that kicks off a whole new group of cachers.

Edited by redsaffron
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This situation may have resolved itself in a satisfactory manner. The detective responded to my email thusly:

 

<<Bill,

No citation, no nothing, just make an appointment to see me and you can have the box of goodies back and put it back in play. Patrolmen are just doing their job and anything suspicious gets their attention.

 

Det-Cpl Roy G. Ferrari>>

 

The term he used - "put it back in play" sounds pretty positive. Maybe I'm not headed for the slammer after all.

 

Just in case, I had "GEOCACHE" tattooed on my knuckles with pen ink. I want to be able to blend in.

 

Regarding getting proper permission in the first place - well, I tried. At that point (2+ years ago) there was nothing on the Park & Rec Department's website regarding caching (there still isn't except for the event someone mentioned above) and I emailed the park people and they never got back to me. So I figured it's public property and went ahead.

 

I emailed the detective back and told him that I'd schedule an appointment next week to pick up the cache (I'm currently vacationing). If you don't hear from me for a month or so after that, something went terribly wrong.

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Sometimes threads like this make me really think I'm putting too much leg work into the front end of gaining permission from the appropriate agency(ies) to place a cache where I want to place it. When really I could just slap one out there and then start a thread here and let everyone here on the back end do the research on where I should have asked permission from in the first place when the cache gets taken away etc.

 

Yeah, i was kinda thinking the same thing.

 

Catching up on the thread. I guess the end story is that I've put entirely too much effort into finding the appropriate people to ask permission from. And that basically according what I can ascertain it's completely acceptable to place a cache of trying to get permission but not getting an answer or appropriate answer and call no permission adequate permission.

 

Glad the police were understanding in this instance.

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I've had a lot of experience dealing with the police, usually on the wrong side, so take this for what it's worth.

 

Go get your cache.

 

"Why?" You ask? Because it's yours.

 

What happens if they try to cite you? Probably nothing because they are probably not going to cite you.

 

What has likely happened is cop A came back with the geocache and got a talking to about it.

If it wasn't that then someone in the precinct heard about geocaching (or is even a member) and educated the rest.

 

If they do cite you then fight it. Don't fight it by saying you had "adequate permission". That is an admission of guilt for whatever bogus ordinance they twist around to include a geocache.

Instead, fight it by asking them to prove you placed it. Do not confirm or deny that you placed it. Take the stance that the police have your property in their posession and you thank them for returning it. It's PROPERTY, not litter. By claiming it you are affirming that it's property.

 

Part of your defense would be that the police officer, himself, did not see the geocache hidden under the bridge but, instead, relied on a third party to retrieve the property. That third party is a witness that the police wouldn't be able to produce. It would be cop A word only and that works in your favor.

 

The bottom line is that you won't have to worry. Most likely your cache is waiting for you to pick it up and you might get a lecture but thats it.

 

Don't be afraid of the police.

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This situation may have resolved itself in a satisfactory manner. The detective responded to my email thusly:

 

<<Bill,

No citation, no nothing, just make an appointment to see me and you can have the box of goodies back and put it back in play. Patrolmen are just doing their job and anything suspicious gets their attention.

 

Det-Cpl Roy G. Ferrari>>

 

The term he used - "put it back in play" sounds pretty positive. Maybe I'm not headed for the slammer after all.

 

Just in case, I had "GEOCACHE" tattooed on my knuckles with pen ink. I want to be able to blend in.

 

Regarding getting proper permission in the first place - well, I tried. At that point (2+ years ago) there was nothing on the Park & Rec Department's website regarding caching (there still isn't except for the event someone mentioned above) and I emailed the park people and they never got back to me. So I figured it's public property and went ahead.

 

I emailed the detective back and told him that I'd schedule an appointment next week to pick up the cache (I'm currently vacationing). If you don't hear from me for a month or so after that, something went terribly wrong.

 

Yay! I'm glad it's working out, I felt so bad for you. Looks like a really interesting cache!

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Absolutely no way I would present myself to that police department hoping to pickup my geocache. Cut your loss and move on.

 

warrants?

 

No stinking warrants needed if you voluntarily walk up to a LEO and admit involvement with something they think is illegal. Let it go. The story from the last finders seems weird -- the time frame is all messed up. Unless these jokers are close personal friends, you don't know what they were up to, and you don't know what sort of nonsense you are going to get pulled into. Ultimately, they probably can't nick you for much more than littering, but you might have substantial grief in the process. (Consider that cases involving drugs may result in seizure of your personal property.)

 

If you have connections -- family or friends on the force -- they might be able to retrieve GC's, TB's, and logs for you (provided that the container is not evidence), or at least give you a heads up. No trackables are logged in so basically were just looking at a container, some swag and a spiral notebook.

 

If you'll pardon my rambling a bit, I have a question: has a legit or non-legit geocache been used by the bad guys as a way of making a drug drop? Is this potentially a problem?

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Ah, okay. At first I really held a lot of enmity towards the police there. Now, I realize what had happened. The cop really didn't know what to make of it, he didn't realize what geocaching really was. Once he did he E-mailed the CO so he could give it back as he felt bad. CO then went paranoid about it and posted a thread about how it was a trap, cop confirms fact that he means no harm...

 

All is well!

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Thanks for the follow-up, BikeBill. I suspect that Officer #1 also received a closed-door "What the @%^$!?" do you think you're doing?" talk with the detective... or at least I'd hope so. But we'll never know that for sure, of course. I'd still hope that you can use this as an opportunity to further educate them to geocaching, but I think you did well, for what that's worth.

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If they do cite you then fight it. Don't fight it by saying you had "adequate permission". That is an admission of guilt for whatever bogus ordinance they twist around to include a geocache.

Instead, fight it by asking them to prove you placed it. Do not confirm or deny that you placed it. Take the stance that the police have your property in their posession and you thank them for returning it. It's PROPERTY, not litter. By claiming it you are affirming that it's property.

 

Right, be deceitful, dishonest and immature. Parse words in such a manner a to lie. This always helps further any cause and will, of course, endear you to local law enforcement as a stand up type citizen they won't need to bother worrying about.

 

Please let us know how "neither confirm or deny that you placed it" works when you tell them "the police have your property in their possession".

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OP here - Yesterday I again emailed the Bucks County Park and Rec Board about Geocaching and got a reply today! The woman said that they look upon Geocaching favorably (except in environmentally sensitive areas) and are currently developing a policy which they hope to have in place in the fall. She mentioned our area Geocaching organization - SEPAG - so I'm thinking she is getting input from our side.

 

I volunteered to help with policy development.

 

So currently the county parks have no Geocaching policy, which may explain their lack of response when I contacted them in the past.

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Please let me add something real quick. I am a police officer and Geochaching member. I know other LEO's that are also members. We enjoy it too.

 

My guess is that the officer that picked this cache up simply had concerns about people going to GZ for safety reasons (depending on where it was hidden), or some local elected official has voiced concerns to them. If locating the cache requires people to go places the local government doesn't feel is a safe place to be, for whatever reason(s), they would obviously want to discourage people from going there. I think it's a good thing that they made the effort to notify the CO, rather than simply discard the item, which they could have done.

 

I'm sure the detective will explain their concerns when the CO picks it up. I'm guessing that why he wanted to speak with him/her in person. I can't imagine there will be anything more to it than that. At most, the CO might be asked to find a different place to hide it.

 

Geocaching is harmless fun and I'm sure the officers in that area see it that way too, but they wouldn't be doing their jobs if they honestly felt there was a safety concern and did nothing. Please don't be afraid to talk to the police.

 

Thanks and Happy Hunting everyone! :-)

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If the PD wanted you, they would come get you. There is no need for them to lure you into the station, they know who you are and where you live.

 

Either go pick up your cache and thus recover the log or place a new one under the bridge. Obama is tied up with the Gulf Coast for now and won't bother you.

gotta agree. they already know all they need to know about you. i'd go get the cache and use this experience to educate them about caching.

 

I'm not sure I understand how they would know exactly who the CO is and where to find him just from the geocache and the information on geocaching.com.

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If the PD wanted you, they would come get you. There is no need for them to lure you into the station, they know who you are and where you live.

 

Either go pick up your cache and thus recover the log or place a new one under the bridge. Obama is tied up with the Gulf Coast for now and won't bother you.

gotta agree. they already know all they need to know about you. i'd go get the cache and use this experience to educate them about caching.

 

I'm not sure I understand how they would know exactly who the CO is and where to find him just from the geocache and the information on geocaching.com.

Probably because I (and I think all cachers should) have their contact info on or in the cache. All of mine have my email address, all but one also have my name and phone number asking anyone with issues to contact me.

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If the PD wanted you, they would come get you. There is no need for them to lure you into the station, they know who you are and where you live.

 

Either go pick up your cache and thus recover the log or place a new one under the bridge. Obama is tied up with the Gulf Coast for now and won't bother you.

gotta agree. they already know all they need to know about you. i'd go get the cache and use this experience to educate them about caching.

 

I'm not sure I understand how they would know exactly who the CO is and where to find him just from the geocache and the information on geocaching.com.

Probably because I (and I think all cachers should) have their contact info on or in the cache. All of mine have my email address, all but one also have my name and phone number asking anyone with issues to contact me.

 

If he put his phone number on or in the cache, then yes that would do it, but we don't really know that one way or the other. I would lean towards assuming he didn't do this or the detective would likely have phoned him up instead of sending an e-mail. But either way it's just an assumption.

 

My guess would be the majority of caches I find do not include the hider's phone number or real name. Many do include the GC number, geocache name, and the hider's geocaching id.

 

Not saying the CO should fear the police here, just curious why the assumption the police would already have all the info they need to make an ID in this instance.

Edited by rob3k
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Probably because I (and I think all cachers should) have their contact info on or in the cache. All of mine have my email address, all but one also have my name and phone number asking anyone with issues to contact me.

 

Same here. I also went the extra step of printing out a map of the geocaches in the area and giving it to the sheriff as well as letting him know that Groundspeak offers free premium accounts to law enforcement.

 

I keep saying I need to talk to the police chief and I will eventually, but I just don't happen to have a reason to be in their jail on a regular basis. :lol:

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If the PD wanted you, they would come get you. There is no need for them to lure you into the station, they know who you are and where you live.

 

Either go pick up your cache and thus recover the log or place a new one under the bridge. Obama is tied up with the Gulf Coast for now and won't bother you.

gotta agree. they already know all they need to know about you. i'd go get the cache and use this experience to educate them about caching.

 

I'm not sure I understand how they would know exactly who the CO is and where to find him just from the geocache and the information on geocaching.com.

Probably because I (and I think all cachers should) have their contact info on or in the cache. All of mine have my email address, all but one also have my name and phone number asking anyone with issues to contact me.

 

Trust me they don't. And speaking strictly for myself, won't.

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Similar thing happened to me in NYC recently, and have to tell you the officer was itching to issue a summons, but he could not determine where I fit in the mix--I had not placed the cache and the law enforcement agency had alread removed it. But he did detain, while he ran my credentials-- I of course continued to look for where the cache should have been, while my friend engaged him in conversation.

 

GC1QKJD

 

He did tell me to let the owner , the reviewer and "my club" know of the illegality of same. Have to say implied permission is a total fiction, doesn't exist anywhere in law or in fact. But that never stopped anyone.

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Similar thing happened to me in NYC recently, and have to tell you the officer was itching to issue a summons, but he could not determine where I fit in the mix--I had not placed the cache and the law enforcement agency had alread removed it. But he did detain, while he ran my credentials-- I of course continued to look for where the cache should have been, while my friend engaged him in conversation.

 

GC1QKJD

 

He did tell me to let the owner , the reviewer and "my club" know of the illegality of same. Have to say implied permission is a total fiction, doesn't exist anywhere in law or in fact. But that never stopped anyone.

An officer's determination that you may be breaking the law in no means proves that you are indeed breaking the law.

 

Implied permission in itself is not necessarily fiction.

Edited by knowschad
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Implied permission is a complex legalistic concept which in my view can almost never be found in the placement of a geocache, certainly on private property and dare I say on public property, but that has not stopped me ,as the practice is innocuous and not frowned upon in some circles . Now let the fun begin. (We are due for the regularly scheduled permission debate) (To Be followed by the virtual debate) :lol: I certainly was not breaking any law in searching for a geocache that had already been removed by the law enforcement people. The officer was stating that he believed placement of the cache was a summonsable offense. He initially started with the premise that my looking for it was a summonsable offense, thus the reason for his taking my identification, and as we discussed-- and as I pointed out politely--that there is no law barring me from being in the part. That is when he went in a different direction, became pleasant and gave voice to the security concerns of lower Manhattan. But going back to OP, I think I would go and pick up the cache and if they wanted to give me a ticket, then I would address that as a seperate issue.

Edited by Packanack
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Going to the police to retrieve a cache is not unheard of. Landowners will sometimes turn in unauthorized caches to the police. In one case, a local police department apparently created a Geocaching.com account and posted a note: GCPE53.

 

A satellite view of the coordinates suggests the cache was very close to or under the bridge. If that was true, it probably increased the concern of the police.

 

I'd guess that upwards of 75% of the covered bridges in PA have a geocache or a stage of a multicache in, under or very close to them. BTW in these cases the satellite images are sometimes off a bit since the GPS users often loose satellite contact when they enter the bridge and unknowingly submit poor coordinates.

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I'd guess that upwards of 75% of the covered bridges in PA have a geocache or a stage of a multicache in, under or very close to them. BTW in these cases the satellite images are sometimes off a bit since the GPS users often loose satellite contact when they enter the bridge and unknowingly submit poor coordinates.

This is also true for the more than 140 old covered bridges here in Ohio. I've found more than 30 caches in, under, or near covered bridges in this state so far.

 

Before I was involved with geocaching, as an excuse to see more of the state and its history, I tracked down all the surviving historic covered bridges (there are also a number of modern reproductions, but those were less interesting to me), and took photos of them. Sadly, they tend to be a vanishing breed in these parts. It's always a treat when geocaching brings me back to one of them.

 

--Larry

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Implied permission is a complex legalistic concept which in my view can almost never be found in the placement of a geocache, certainly on private property and dare I say on public property, but that has not stopped me ,as the practice is innocuous and not frowned upon in some circles . Now let the fun begin. (We are due for the regularly scheduled permission debate) (To Be followed by the virtual debate) :lol: I certainly was not breaking any law in searching for a geocache that had already been removed by the law enforcement people. The officer was stating that he believed placement of the cache was a summonsable offense. He initially started with the premise that my looking for it was a summonsable offense, thus the reason for his taking my identification, and as we discussed-- and as I pointed out politely--that there is no law barring me from being in the part. That is when he went in a different direction, became pleasant and gave voice to the security concerns of lower Manhattan. But going back to OP, I think I would go and pick up the cache and if they wanted to give me a ticket, then I would address that as a seperate issue.

That debate has been debated here ad nauseum, and I don't intend to get into it here, aside from making it clear that what you posted was simply your opinion, and not at all based on fact. The arguments on both sides have already been made many times and serve no purpose in this thread.

 

Was that a real police officer, or a security cop? The archive log implies that it was private security.

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