Micros the scurge of geocaching and maybe the end?

[+sbell111]

We are currently in Phoenix AZ. It is littered with micros which are blocking the placement of regular caches. One cacher placed 47 micros in the Phoenix Mountain Preserve blocking several sq miles of great cache habitat.

 

I wish Ground Speak would remove micros from the traditional cache rules. This would open up some great areas for placement of caches that hold Travel Bugs, Geocoins and swag.

 

Micros are not traditional. It's too easy to get a bag of film cans, put a piece of paper in it, throw it in a bush and call it a cache.

A quick look at the geocaching maps found lots of caches in that preserve hidden by many people. The micros in question appear to be hidden close to the trail, if I'm not mistaken. There clearly is plenty of room remaining in the park for more caches.

 

Frankly, I'm having trouble identifying your issue. This truly does seem to be a scenario where you could simply not look for the referenced caches and never be affected by them.

Edited January 14, 2011 by sbell111

[+texasgrillchef]

I know many dont like micros and neither do I. Lately I have been wondering if they will be the eventual end of geocaching. We are lucky enough to live in an area that has over 2000 geocaches within 25 miles of the house unfortunately the majority of them are micros. It seems that there are so many micros with little or no thought to their placement that it has gotten to the point they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule. So why if so many feel the same way are there still so many micros placed around. This should be about quality not quantity and I fear if this trend continues we will not draw nearly as many new cachers to keep the sport growing. OK off my soap box and maybe off to find a good ole ammo can.

 

Frankly I don't think so and I will say why.

 

I geocache for the following reasons... no one reason is as important at the other.

 

1. The "Search" factor. I like a good hunt. I loved hide & seek when I was a kid and was good at it. So a well placed micro or nano that makes you hunt for it. I like. Although I don't really like needle in a haystack hides.

 

2. The "Numbers" factor.... Yes I am in it for the numbers. So LPC's etc are very nice for those BAD WEATHER days when you need that cache to keep your daily streak going. (Currently I am up to 132 days straight of a cache everyday)

 

3. The "Where it takes me" Factor. There are some VERY VERY Good micros out there that take you to some very nice places. Let you discover things & places you might not ever have noticed. One micro took me to a park that was only a few miles from my home. I never knew it existed until THAT micro took me there. It also had a good "Search" factor involved too.

 

I DON'T have the "KID" Factor. So that factor of geocaching isn't of any concern to me.

 

I DON'T care about SWAG so I DON'T have the "Swag" factor involved. 98% of the caches that I have come across that have swag, are crappy swag, even by a kids standard. It's rare when I see decent swag. While "PREMIUM" level cachers as a majority trade even or trade up. The MAJORITY of geocachers AREN'T premium members & I would be willing to be the majority of them aren't the ones that trade even or trade up. (As a general rule, exceptions do apply)

 

As far as ammo cans go?

 

I have seen ammo cans leak, I have seen ammo cans placed in a horrible fashion. For me... Most ammo cans are way to EASY to find. Although a few that I have found were easy to find, but HARD to retrieve. (They were hanging from a tree limb)

 

Ammo cans are just way to big to be able to hide them easily & STILL be a challenge to find. I am very much an outdoor person. I go hiking & camping all the time. I have found several dozen ammo cans hidden in the wilds of forests etc., NONE of them were a challenge to find. Although a few were a challenge to retrieve.

 

So you may NOT like micros.... but many of us do. Some are great for those of us that have the "Numbers" factor, and some have that great "Search" factor, & even some that DO have the "Where it takes me" factor.

 

There are CRAPY hides for ALL sizes of containers. There are CRAPY containers in ALL sizes as well.

 

I have placed micro's in my area. I will tell you this. NONE of my micros are 35mm film cans. I have 4 types of micros that I use:

 

1. A waterproofed, Plastic, magnetic key holder that has been painted to be "Camoed" with it's location.

 

2. A "Fake" garden sprinkler head. Made of plastic, waterproofed. No camo paint needed.

 

3. A waterproof matchstick holder. Again painted to match the surroundings that it is placed in. If it's going in a natural setting it will always be textured, and multi-colour painted to match the surroundings. Example... One I placed in an area of Texas that is tan. So the container is tan & has a sandy textured look and feel to it. So it blends in quite well with its surroundings. Actually even better then I thought it would, as I have been told.

 

I have placed micros that are in good locations & still have that "Search" factor, even though I mainly placed those for those with the "Numbers" factor.

 

I also have some that are placed for the "Where it takes me" factor. At local parks, on a trail system around a lake, etc...

 

A few of my micros' even have the "Retrieve" factor. As in they are easy to find... a challenge to retrieve. Check out my fishing series. Which btw have been favorited by a few.

 

So Micros/nano's being the scurge... I would have to say... WRONG......

 

The nice thing about geocaching. IS that there are geocaches for EVERY TYPE of geocacher around. No matter what geocaching "Factors" you have, or geocache for.

 

You don't wanna do micros... then don't do them... Micro's aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

TGC

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

What TexasGrillChef said

[+tozainamboku]

I suggest that the people who are finding too many micros take some time off and go to the ice cream parlor where they can have a dish of their favorite flavor of ice cream while ignoring all the flavors they don't like.

[+Castle Mischief]

Everybody can relax. I have it on good authority that Souvenirs, the stats tab, and the return of Virtual caches will be the death of caching. No need to panic, no need to crush innocent film cans underfoot or slaughter any bison tubes for their luxurious pelt.

 

Repeat after me, "it's all gonna be okay."

[+texasgrillchef]

Everybody can relax. I have it on good authority that Souvenirs, the stats tab, and the return of Virtual caches will be the death of caching. No need to panic, no need to crush innocent film cans underfoot or slaughter any bison tubes for their luxurious pelt.

 

Repeat after me, "it's all gonna be okay."

 

Hmmmm I wonder if your being sarcastic, or if there really is something you don't like about the stats tab & the return of virtuals. You didn't even mention the soon to be released NANO size cache option.

 

As far as souvenirs go. I don't think they will kill geocaching. But I have yet to see the point in them (Currently). Maybe if they took in account our stats and gave us souvenir for most found in a day. Most consecutive days geocaching etc...

 

Yes ONE (not the only) reason I like to geocache is it IS about the numbers for me.

 

TGC

[+Castle Mischief]

Everybody can relax. I have it on good authority that Souvenirs, the stats tab, and the return of Virtual caches will be the death of caching. No need to panic, no need to crush innocent film cans underfoot or slaughter any bison tubes for their luxurious pelt.

 

Repeat after me, "it's all gonna be okay."

 

Hmmmm I wonder if your being sarcastic, or if there really is something you don't like about the stats tab & the return of virtuals. You didn't even mention the soon to be released NANO size cache option.

 

As far as souvenirs go. I don't think they will kill geocaching. But I have yet to see the point in them (Currently). Maybe if they took in account our stats and gave us souvenir for most found in a day. Most consecutive days geocaching etc...

 

Yes ONE (not the only) reason I like to geocache is it IS about the numbers for me.

 

TGC

 

Can I opt out of the nano size?

 

I'll answer your question and then we should probably let the thread get back on topic- I'm being so sarcastic that all the sarcasm meters in a 30 mile radius will need to be re-calibrated this weekend.

 

I don't think the following things will be the "death of" or that they are currently the "scurge (sic) of" much less "the end" of caching: micros, veeners, stats, enjoying caching for the numbers, virts, earthcaches, nano size, or the use of "TFTC" as the entire contents of an on-line log.

 

I am concerned about knuckle-heads that engage in knuckle-headedness as they go about their knuckle-headed activities. It's these people that will kill caching.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Castle Mischief

[+Ecylram]

I don't think the following things will be the "death of" or that they are currently the "scurge (sic) of" much less "the end" of caching: micros, veeners, stats, enjoying caching for the numbers, virts, earthcaches, nano size, or the use of "TFTC" as the entire contents of an on-line log.

 

I am concerned about knuckle-heads that engage in knuckle-headedness as they go about their knuckle-headed activities. It's these people that will kill caching.

 

THIS

 

Except, I don't think the knuckleheads have the power to kill caching.

[+Castle Mischief]

I don't think the following things will be the "death of" or that they are currently the "scurge (sic) of" much less "the end" of caching: micros, veeners, stats, enjoying caching for the numbers, virts, earthcaches, nano size, or the use of "TFTC" as the entire contents of an on-line log.

 

I am concerned about knuckle-heads that engage in knuckle-headedness as they go about their knuckle-headed activities. It's these people that will kill caching.

 

THIS

 

Except, I don't think the knuckleheads have the power to kill caching.

 

It only takes one in the wrong place at the wrong time or being observed by the wrong person. (Now multiply that times 500 and place it along a stretch of desert road... But I digress.)

[Clan Riffster]

1. A waterproofed, Plastic, magnetic key holder

isn't that a contradiction of terms?

[+texasgrillchef]

1. A waterproofed, Plastic, magnetic key holder

isn't that a contradiction of terms?

 

Not at all.

 

Next time I make one & get ready to place it. I will take a pic of it & post it.

 

By waterproofed.. I mean the log will stay dry

Plastic as that is what the container is made out of, so it won't leak water, nor will it rust.

Magnetic, because somewhere on the thing is a magnet that can hold it to something made of iron.

 

TGC

[ThePhiferFamily]

Actually because so many people mark nano's a other you have to block that too. Only there are a few that are very large or just an interesting container that are marked other that you will miss if you do that. It sucks to have to week thru 100's of mismarked nano's to find the few gems. I actually wish they would get rid of other, because in our area it's been abused so much by the nano placers. Some because they just can't get it thru their heads that a nano is a micro and others because they don't want to give people the power to weed them out. Even putting that they are a nano in the description doesn't keep us from wasting time. Even more than a new nano size to select I'd like to see reviewers given the power to the change size (or ask the CO to do so) when it's clearly mismarked. Of course the CO should have the right to appeal to the reviewer and if the reason is good enough they could let it stand. Actually if they just did it on other (they would need guidelines for other) it might help. I'm fine with other for nano's that listed as other when they are included as part of a multi or to a degree when there someone is rating it a higher difficulty and doesn't want to disclose the actual size. But the vast majority that I’ve seen said nano in the description. Shouldn’t someone at least gently suggest that they should change the size to micro and give those of us who prefer not to search for them back the power to leave them out of our PQ’s? Maybe even changing the micro size to nano/micro would help. Since so many people just don’t seem to get that nano isn’t other.

 

And yes I do think that if so many people just keep putting out log only containers in easy places it will harm the sport. Sure there is a small set of players who go for numbers and love p&g’s but I think most people prefer to get a reward at the end of their journey. Rather it’s a cache with swag or a great view. I prefer the ones that give me both. If I do ever put out a nano it’s going to be as part of a multi. Too many of the ones today are for nothing but numbers runs. If I'd happened to run across a couple of dozen of these in my first weeks out I would have thought "what a silly game" and I'd have moved on. I'm sure there are a lot of people who have done just that and as the micros continue to take over areas I'm sure it's happening quite often.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you. A lot of the micros make it easier for the whole family to go out. I personally like the larger ones and harder to find ones, but that wouldn't help my 4 and 6 year olds out. The easier micros are perfect for them. I also have a sis-in-law that is in a wheelchair that we are planning to take out with us this summer. And the micros are perfect for her. As far as the power runs, it is perfect to be able to run out with the wife in the middle of the day while the kids are in school and grab a few caches. I'm off work due to injury right now, and it gives us something to do instead of sitting at home.

[Clan Riffster]

1. A waterproofed, Plastic, magnetic key holder

isn't that a contradiction of terms?

 

Not at all.

 

Next time I make one & get ready to place it. I will take a pic of it & post it.

 

By waterproofed.. I mean the log will stay dry

Plastic as that is what the container is made out of, so it won't leak water, nor will it rust.

Magnetic, because somewhere on the thing is a magnet that can hold it to something made of iron.

 

TGC

Kewl! Actually, I already knew the most commonly accepted definitions for waterprrof, plastic and magnetic. That part I got. I've built several that would meet that criteria. It was the keyholder part that threw me. I've seen every possible variation of keyholder imaginable, and I have yet to see one that was inherently waterproof. Most are not even water resistant, and require baggies to keep the log from turning to mush. Naturally, since a baggie's halflife is pretty short, the logs turn to mush anyway. I'm looking forward to your pics, as I'd love to learn how you turn a container that is even lower on the crappy cache scale than a black & grey film can, into something that works out in the field.

[+Coldgears]

1. A waterproofed, Plastic, magnetic key holder

isn't that a contradiction of terms?

 

Not at all.

 

Next time I make one & get ready to place it. I will take a pic of it & post it.

 

By waterproofed.. I mean the log will stay dry

Plastic as that is what the container is made out of, so it won't leak water, nor will it rust.

Magnetic, because somewhere on the thing is a magnet that can hold it to something made of iron.

 

TGC

Kewl! Actually, I already knew the most commonly accepted definitions for waterprrof, plastic and magnetic. That part I got. I've built several that would meet that criteria. It was the keyholder part that threw me. I've seen every possible variation of keyholder imaginable, and I have yet to see one that was inherently waterproof. Most are not even water resistant, and require baggies to keep the log from turning to mush. Naturally, since a baggie's halflife is pretty short, the logs turn to mush anyway. I'm looking forward to your pics, as I'd love to learn how you turn a container that is even lower on the crappy cache scale than a black & grey film can, into something that works out in the field.

 

I've never seen a "mushy" log. Most of the ones I found aren't even in a Lamp Post so you can't use the "lamp post cover" excuse.

[+Ecylram]

Coldgears, you've got to be pulling our leg with the last one.

 

One of the first ones we found was magnetically attached (duh) under a shopping center sign and, theoretically, out of the rain. It was half full of water and the baggie had taken on a considerable amount of water. The log was reduced to being a soggy ball of pulp. It was unsignable.

 

The hide-a-keys are not waterproof, the baggies get caught and torn in the sliding door, and the baggies do show a very short shelf life. I replace a lot of wet logs and torn baggies in hide-a-keys.

[Clan Riffster]

I replace a lot of wet logs and torn baggies in hide-a-keys.

I used to. Then I realized I was being a crappy cache enabler by making repairs on containers that should never have been placed. By doing maintenance on a crappy cache, I bolster the belief, in the cache owner, that their container was a good choice. Hopefully, if they have to run out every few weeks to replace the log, they'll realize their container really sucks, and will stop hiding them, opting instead for one that's actually waterproof.

[+deacdiddy]

I know many dont like micros and neither do I. Lately I have been wondering if they will be the eventual end of geocaching. We are lucky enough to live in an area that has over 2000 geocaches within 25 miles of the house unfortunately the majority of them are micros. It seems that there are so many micros with little or no thought to their placement that it has gotten to the point they are interfering with the placement of larger caches due to the over saturation rule. So why if so many feel the same way are there still so many micros placed around. This should be about quality not quantity and I fear if this trend continues we will not draw nearly as many new cachers to keep the sport growing. OK off my soap box and maybe off to find a good ole ammo can.

 

No, they won't be the end.

There is a movement among many geocachers to deliberately place larger caches to stop micros from becoming a virus. When you place an ammo can you block any and all micros from being placed within a 528 foot radius. Even placing a small will accomplish this task.

 

Some people talk of the days when there were fewer caches. They talk of less saturation and so forth. Mcros are great if you want to go back to the former days of limited saturation. Just block all the micros and all of a sudden the grid clears up. It's like Clearasil for the acne of the geocaching playfield.

[+deacdiddy]

I feel your pain.. Before I became a premium member...of course when looking at google maps..pm caches didn't show up. I found a terrific spot for a cache..never dreaming there was a premium cache within 20 ft of my placement..I had made several trips to my dream site setting up my hide only to have it denied by a 35mm film canister at the base of a street sign...in standing water...wet log and all...Still makes me sick to think about it...

[+Ecylram]

Clan, that's a fair point and I may get to that place myself. For now, I do it as a favor to the cachers that follow me, not the CO.

 

I'm coming to the opinion that CO's who tend to put out hide-a-keys and tin containers in wet environments don't tend to do much cache maintenance.

[+texasgrillchef]

Here is one other thing, again regardless of cache size. Is that except for a VERY FEW exceptions. NO container will last "Forever" and will eventually need to be replaced.

 

Some "Bad" containers aren't so bad, they just don't last as long as the better ones obviously. In which case they need to be fixed &/or replaced more often. Of course as we all know they don't get replaced when they should.

 

Then their are containers that will ALWAYS be bad, because they will leak water no matter what you do. They shouldn't be used at all, unless the location you are placing them is going to be free from any direct contact with water.

 

Sadly, for whatever reason people think that lamp post skirts will protect things from getting wat because it's covered. People who think that DON'T understand the properties of water. So why don't lamp post skirts keep things dry since it covers it from rain? It's because the lampost gets wet & starts getting water on it. It simply gathers more raindrops and momentum as it "Rolls" down the pole. Think of your car windshield. The raindrop at the top, picks up the raindrops it hits as it rolls down your window. The drop gets bigger and bigger and bigger and goes even faster. A big light post will ahve alot. Thuse the water comes down the pole... enters the gap between the skirt and the post.. and presto.. their is a RIVER under the skirt. Watch the skirt of a lamp post in the rain sometime. You will see what I mean.

 

IT IS possible to use a Magnetic key holder in an LPC hide and keep both dry. This is a RARE occurance though. It requires a skirt that is capable of holding a magnet. NOt all will, some skirts are made of alluminum, or even plastic. It takes a big skirt that is tall as well. And You stick the magnet key holder to the underside top part of the skirt. Not on the base. This won't last for long though. Why? Because eventually. LAZY geocachers will come along and WON'T replace it like you originally placed it and will just toss it back under the skirt willy nilly.

 

For my LPC's... I ALWAYS use nothing but a waterproofed matchstick holder, or my specially modified large pill bottles. (These aren't the normal brown pill bottles you get at wally world). It's not hard to make a matchstick tube magnetic either.

A good rare earth magnet & some superglue, to the inside bottom of the matchstick and your ready to go.

 

I ordered 500 of them for .50 a piece & still have more than enough left. They are the orange matchstick tubes wally world & Bass pro shops, CAbellas sells for $2-$3.

 

Exceppt for one location when seems to be an issue for some strange reason. Which may end up getting archived. The Tubes have never gotten the log wet. Except when cachers don't close the lid correctly.

 

Thats one other thing too... NOT everytime a log gets wet is it the fault of the container. Sometimes geocachers don't replace lids correctly, or tightly enough

 

TGC

Edited January 17, 2011 by texasgrillchef

[+Rainbow Spirit]

I just like to find caches, large, regular, small, micro, I don't care. If you hide them, I will come.

[+fndrs-kprs]

No dislike of Micro caches per se and this is certainly NOT an indictment of all micros and their owners... However, they are largely unimaginative and typically placed as a drive-by by the cache owner. I look forward to the hunt, the walks, the excersize, the outdoors. In most cases, I don't get that with micros (unless you consider dodging shopping carts excersize). I see geocaching as an oppotunity to introduced to "off-the-beaten path" attractions/locations that I may have never known existed otherwise. In my mind, a guadrail or lamp post does not qualify as an "attraction."

 

Additionally, I've seen many ocassions where, due to their ease of placement, the owner has countless hides. Not an issue in anmd of itself, however, it is nearly impossible for the cache owner to maintain their extensive inventory. As a result, the caches fall into disrepair or go missing and the owner doens't have the capability to verify field status. The cache's page is never updated to reflect the actual physical status of the cache. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a difficult hunt but is very frustrating to hunt a cache that simply does not exist.

 

My thoughts, though they may not be popular.

[+toadfrommars]

While caching in a local park, we stumbled upon a fantastic old rock shed that would have been perfect for a cache. Unfortunately, a tupperware cache was about five hundred feet away, up a hill, sitting in a stump, no relation to the old rock shed. To me the tupperware cache was just another cache in the woods. Nothing interesting was around it, it was easy to find, no good swag, no puzzles to solve, just a numbers cache.

 

I would much rather see a micro placed on or near the shed than the tupperware container placed in the middle of the woods.

Edited January 18, 2011 by toadfrommars

[+tozainamboku]

I would much rather see a micro placed on or near the shed than the tupperware container placed in the middle of the woods.

Maybe not. Just imagine some frustrated cacher searching for the micro on the shed, moving rocks thinking it might be behind an loose one and ending up damaging the shed. I think a tupperware container up the hill in the stump would be better. But it doesn't have to be five hundred feet away.

[GOF and Bacall]

Thats one other thing too... NOT everytime a log gets wet is it the fault of the container. Sometimes geocachers don't replace lids correctly, or tightly enough

 

This is often a fault of the container. It didn't take me long to figure out that the old army decon containers were useless because it was too difficult for cachers to close properly.But yes, cachers can improperly close even the best of containers.

[GOF and Bacall]

While caching in a local park, we stumbled upon a fantastic old rock shed that would have been perfect for a cache. Unfortunately, a tupperware cache was about five hundred feet away, up a hill, sitting in a stump, no relation to the old rock shed. To me the tupperware cache was just another cache in the woods. Nothing interesting was around it, it was easy to find, no good swag, no puzzles to solve, just a numbers cache.

 

I would much rather see a micro placed on or near the shed than the tupperware container placed in the middle of the woods.

 

And yet it brought you to the park where you found the shed. If it had been hidden on the shed you can bet it would have caused damage. That is why these are a part of the guidelines.

 

# Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a hiding place, a clue or a logging method.

# Caches placed in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites or cemeteries).

[Clan Riffster]

NO container will last "Forever" and will eventually need to be replaced.

True. All any of us that care can do is play the odds.

Odds are, if I hide a black & grey film can, a future finder will face a wet, moldy log, in very short order.

Odds are, if I hide a hide-a-key, a future finder will face a wet, moldy log, in very short order.

Odds are, if I hide an Altoids tin, a future finder will face a wet, moldy log, in very short order.

Odds are, if I hide a prescription medicine bottle, a future finder will face a wet, moldy log, in very short order.

 

Since I do care, I refuse to take the chance, and only utilize containers which have proven their worth, over time, in multiple environments.

 

Things like ammo cans, match safes, true Lock & Locks, preforms and real Bison design tubes.

[+sbell111]

While caching in a local park, we stumbled upon a fantastic old rock shed that would have been perfect for a cache. Unfortunately, a tupperware cache was about five hundred feet away, up a hill, sitting in a stump, no relation to the old rock shed. To me the tupperware cache was just another cache in the woods. Nothing interesting was around it, it was easy to find, no good swag, no puzzles to solve, just a numbers cache.

 

I would much rather see a micro placed on or near the shed than the tupperware container placed in the middle of the woods.

You could simply place a cache 30 feet away from the shed. This will bring people to the shed, but won't be so close to it that it is at great risk for incidental damage. As a bonus, a cache this distance away from the shed (in the correct direction) won't be too close to the existing nearby cache.

[Assistchief52]

I was new to caching last summer frustrating looking for mirco to the point I was going to just stop. But found a few bigger ones and then I was hooked and have been looking ever since. I got my Fiancée involved as well, we take the 3 month old baby out with us on some of the easier ones and she enjoys the outdoors so all in all it's good. But grrrr micros and I agree as in too many micro's blocking what would be good areas is just not right. I want to see more in my search than just log books etc. I would like to find geo coins and such. Living in Upstate, NY way off the beaten path there is a lot of land around and in some case limited in where the caches are and how many are available. My girl is so into now she wants to start hiding them so I will read up on the rules and get some together with coins, bugs etc. We are still looking for our first tb and coins.

[Clan Riffster]

My girl is so into now she wants to start hiding them

Kewl! My best advice would be a Gandhi misquote: "Hide the cache you want to find".

An ammo can, at a beautiful location trumps a film can in a Wally World parking lot, every time.

[Assistchief52]

My girl is so into now she wants to start hiding them

Kewl! My best advice would be a Gandhi misquote: "Hide the cache you want to find".

An ammo can, at a beautiful location trumps a film can in a Wally World parking lot, every time.

True that we have an idea of what we would like to hide and a few spots with a bit of history so when time permits we will get one out.

[+Roman!]

Micros are the OPs most found size ane he/she has been caching for a few years so I think it's safe to say micros will not be the end of Geocaching.

[+Puzbie]

I used to be dead against microcaches. However, in my latest visit to Cyprus I visited a few and found that some of them had been placed in lovely spots, where a full-sized cannister wouldn't have been possible.

 

So what I am against are those cache loops (power caches?) where people swamp a whole area with a load of them. They are very dull, and the placer would have been much better off had they constructed one or two multipart caches instead. Also, that would still leave room for other cachers to place bigger caches along the route in more interesting places.

[Clan Riffster]

I used to be dead against microcaches. However, in my latest visit to Cyprus I visited a few and found that some of them had been placed in lovely spots, where a full-sized cannister wouldn't have been possible.

 

So what I am against are those cache loops (power caches?) where people swamp a whole area with a load of them. They are very dull, and the placer would have been much better off had they constructed one or two multipart caches instead. Also, that would still leave room for other cachers to place bigger caches along the route in more interesting places.

Locally we call this carpet bombing.

Saturating an area with crappy hides, with copy/paste cache pages.

Some folks love 'em though...

[+ArtieD]

I like all caches. I don't buy into the bigger = better ideal. Since people like different things, in the end all caches are equal.

[+ShaunEM]

micros/nanos = Urban hides.. giving you something to do while you wait for your wife to go shopping

Larger = Nature areas.. a walk through the woods/park with a nice find.. and swag for the little ones.

[Clan Riffster]

I like all caches. I don't buy into the bigger = better ideal. Since people like different things, in the end all caches are equal.

For you, that may very well be true. If I were to edit that last bit to fit me, it would read more along the lines of, "In the end, all cache find icons are equal". But it stops there. At least for me it does. Probably because a cache is more than just an icon to me. It starts with a title, which may be enticing, or not. Then there's the cache page, which might be interesting, informative, or boring, or a combination of two of those. After that comes the journey. This is probably where the memories start, either positive or otherwise. Riding my mountain bike 11 miles, through a gorgeous natural area, bristling with all manner of critters, is not equal to exiting my car, crossing 5' of blacktop, and seeing a lamp post, to me. Then there's the find. An ammo can at the base of a waterfall is, for me, not equal to a soggy log film can in a Wally World hedge.

 

For those who only count the numbers, all caches may be equal.

 

For those who cherish the memories that caching brings them, all caches are not equal.

[+tozainamboku]

I like all caches. I don't buy into the bigger = better ideal. Since people like different things, in the end all caches are equal.

For you, that may very well be true. If I were to edit that last bit to fit me, it would read more along the lines of, "In the end, all cache find icons are equal". But it stops there. At least for me it does. Probably because a cache is more than just an icon to me. It starts with a title, which may be enticing, or not. Then there's the cache page, which might be interesting, informative, or boring, or a combination of two of those. After that comes the journey. This is probably where the memories start, either positive or otherwise. Riding my mountain bike 11 miles, through a gorgeous natural area, bristling with all manner of critters, is not equal to exiting my car, crossing 5' of blacktop, and seeing a lamp post, to me. Then there's the find. An ammo can at the base of a waterfall is, for me, not equal to a soggy log film can in a Wally World hedge.

 

For those who only count the numbers, all caches may be equal.

 

For those who cherish the memories that caching brings them, all caches are not equal.

But you don't disagree that "people like different things". For many people the size of the container has little to do with the experience of geocaching. If trading is important or if you enjoy moving trackables then it is true that micro caches are less likely to support these aspects of caching.

 

What happens is that many people associate the size with other thing. Urban hides tend to be micros, so people who don't like urban caching tend to blame micros. Micros - both in urban and non-urban areas tend to be hidden better, so people who don't like having to search a bit call these needle-in-the-haystack and complain that they cause environmental damage in non-urban areas. Micros tend to last a bit longer because they are better hidden too. So some people find it more likely to find a poor container with a wet log. However I not convinced that the average micro is any less an appropriate container than the average regular all things being equal.

 

The facts are that some caches are hidden in places I'm not interested in going, some caches take longer to find, and some cache are in containers that are not appropriate for the environment they are in. While the size may make any of these more or less likely, the size does not guarantee any of these.

Edited June 15, 2013 by tozainamboku

[Clan Riffster]

But you don't disagree that "people like different things".

Of course not. Heck, some people even like cabbage.

[Clan Riffster]

Urban hides tend to be micros, so people who don't like urban caching tend to blame micros.

Not from my experience. Those who don't like urban caching could mostly care less what size container is there. It's a location they don't enjoy, so they are not going to have fun there. Placing a 2 quart Lock & Lock behind a dumpster does not suddenly make that dumpster a wonderful place to be. It still sucks.

 

Micros - both in urban and non-urban areas tend to be hidden better

Again, not in my experience. A cache plopped down at the base of a stop sign is not hidden 'better'. Neither is a cache tossed in a shrub at a Wally World. For me, 'better' means more than just harder to find.

 

so people who don't like having to search a bit call these needle-in-the-haystack

No, a needle-in-the-haystack hide most definitely would not be hidden 'better', unless the only measurement you use to define worth is how hard it is to find. Needle-in-the-haystack hides take no skill to create, nor do they take any skill to find. Only the ability to continue searching long after the fun meter has hit zero.

 

and complain that they cause environmental damage in non-urban areas.

Actually, that's a pretty valid complaint, from my observations. If I have two caches, one a 40' long shipping container, and the other a magnetic blinkie, and I surround both with identical fields of delicate ferns, which one would be easier to find? Caches which are difficult to find oft require more diligent searching, requiring more time spent moving about ground zero.

 

Micros tend to last a bit longer...

I doubt that this is an accurate statement.

So far, the older caches I've seen, (with the exception of the time Mingo spent as a Bison tube), have not been micros. One of the caching groups I belong to maintains a list of elder caches, and as memory serves, there's not a micro amongst them. Perhaps I'll have to look up that list again?

 

So some people find it more likely to find a poor container with a wet log.

Container size is only related to container quality at a circular level. There are quality micro size containers, just as there are really crappy regular size containers. The reason micros get such a bad rap when it comes to quality has more to do with volume. The type of cacher who tends to hide 80 bajillion caches is the same type of cacher who leans toward cheap, crappy micro size containers. It's not the film can's fault, it's the cacher who deliberately chooses an inferior container, over, and over, and over...

[+niraD]

Micros tend to last a bit longer...

I doubt that this is an accurate statement.

So far, the older caches I've seen, (with the exception of the time Mingo spent as a Bison tube), have not been micros. One of the caching groups I belong to maintains a list of elder caches, and as memory serves, there's not a micro amongst them. Perhaps I'll have to look up that list again?

That's a different question. The size of the oldest surviving caches depends on factors other than what size caches survive longer, including the size of the containers used for the early caches.

 

Here's a pattern I've seen repeated in several locations around here: Several short-lived larger containers are muggled, until someone hides a micro-cache. And that's what survives.

 

I wouldn't say that micros always last longer than larger caches, but as a general trend, micros do tend to last longer than larger caches in many locations.

[+Founden]

But you don't disagree that "people like different things".

Of course not. Heck, some people even like cabbage.

 

I love boiled cabbage and I love micros.

[vagabond]

It's kind of funny micros have been around longer then the majority of cachers on this site

[Mr.Yuck]

But you don't disagree that "people like different things".

Of course not. Heck, some people even like cabbage.

 

I love boiled cabbage and I love micros.

 

Eww. I don't like either. Is Toz starting to take up the whole "people find them because they enjoy them" angle in the long absence of Sbell111? Trust me, I know several tens of thousands of cache finders who hold their noses every time they lift a skirt in a parking lot. Finding does not = enjoying. Finding equals, I don't know, finding everything that gets listed on Geocaching.com as a Geocache?

[+Founden]

But you don't disagree that "people like different things".

Of course not. Heck, some people even like cabbage.

 

I love boiled cabbage and I love micros.

 

Eww. I don't like either. Is Toz starting to take up the whole "people find them because they enjoy them" angle in the long absence of Sbell111? Trust me, I know several tens of thousands of cache finders who hold their noses every time they lift a skirt in a parking lot. Finding does not = enjoying. Finding equals, I don't know, finding everything that gets listed on Geocaching.com as a Geocache?

 

I just get a high from finding them. Maybe I will change someday, but I've been doing this for almost 2 years and I love any find. They THRILL me. I just love the hidden world that is geocaching.

[+Roman!]

But you don't disagree that "people like different things".

Of course not. Heck, some people even like cabbage.

 

I love boiled cabbage and I love micros.

 

Trust me, I know several tens of thousands of cache finders who hold their noses every time they lift a skirt in a parking lot.

 

Impossible, you need two hands to lift a lamp skirt.

[Clan Riffster]

Is Toz starting to take up the whole "people find them because they enjoy them" angle in the long absence of Sbell111?

Me thinks perhaps he's been listening to John Lennon too long?

"All I'm am say-ying,... is give film cans a chance..."

[+ArtieD]

For those who only count the numbers, all caches may be equal.

 

For those who cherish the memories that caching brings them, all caches are not equal.

 

You oversimplify the situation. As I said before, since people are different, their preference for caches may be different. I myself love all hides. If someone is like me and loves caching in general, all hides truly are equal. They all get us outdoors, they all provide a fun diversion and they all take us to new places, be it a parking lot of the top of a mountain. Memories are what you make of it. I go caching alone a lot, but I do cache with my family and again, the kind of cache does not dictate the memories involved. Our memories are based on our spending time together, regardless of where the cache is.

[+wmpastor]

I love to find ammo cans but I like to find all caches.

Since I don't often trade things I just do it for the hunt.

4 out of my 5 hides are micros but they are placed where an ammo can or really even a regular wouldn't work.

I have 2 caches that are fully stocked and ready to go in my truck.

1 is an ammo can and the other is a regular.

When I find a spot that is worthy of them I will place them.

I do make sure I don't sterilize an area by hiding a micro there.

Two problems: (1) Moving caches aren't allowed. (2) The caches are less than 528 feet apart.

Read the rules and keep trying - you're off to a good start!

[+wmpastor]

For those who only count the numbers, all caches may be equal.

 

For those who cherish the memories that caching brings them, all caches are not equal.

 

You oversimplify the situation. As I said before, since people are different, their preference for caches may be different. I myself love all hides. If someone is like me and loves caching in general, all hides truly are equal. They all get us outdoors, they all provide a fun diversion and they all take us to new places, be it a parking lot of the top of a mountain. Memories are what you make of it. I go caching alone a lot, but I do cache with my family and again, the kind of cache does not dictate the memories involved. Our memories are based on our spending time together, regardless of where the cache is.

Yes. Not only do different cachers enjoy different hides, a single cacher may enjoy a different type of cache on a different day. Want to hike? A 3.0/3.0 in the woods is ideal. Busy today? A 1.5/1.5 park-n-grab is best.