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TR1243 Mt Erie, WA


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You don't mention whether you actually found the mark or not. If so, then submit a report to NGS with a corrected description. If not, then don't depend on the coordinates being 100% correct, I've usually found the descriptions to be pretty good, if occasionally out of date and have heard several reports of coordinates being bad, either because of datum issues, conversions or otherwise.

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In this case I dont think there is a mark to find. The description is many miles (about 103 airline) from the coordinates. Looks like it is just an error with the NGS database. Looks like I will have to make a trip to James Park. Since the park is listed as the mark it should be an easy find then I guess I can do a recovery with the correct coords (at least better).

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Wow, it is way off! I spent some time trying to figure out the coords based on the description thinking maybe the data sheet had some digits reversed or maybe one digit just plain wrong. The longitude is off by almost exactly 2 degrees, but the latitude is off by 32 minutes, from 48d 27' 14" (roughly) to 47d 55' 19". I can not figure that one out. So, I think two datasheets got mixed up. That's my 2 cents worth anyway...

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Y'all give up way too easy - here is the deal:

 

The source of the problem is the fact that common names like "park" were often used over and over down through the years. There are a great many markers called "park", in the state of Washington alone. You are dealing with 2 of them here.

 

"PARK (1954)" is a third order Triangulation Station, located in Clallam county, shown on USGS quad map "Quillayute Prairie", PID # SD0800.

Lat. = 47-54-59.81928

Long. = 124-36-23.88025

The description you have is for this point. It should be routinely easy to find, unless there has been a flood in that area in recent years. Put on your swim suit and have a nice day at the beach.

 

"PARK (year unknown)" is a first order Triangulation Station, located in Skagit county, shown on USGS quad map "Deception pass", PID # TR1243.

Lat. = 48-27-13.64865

Long. = 122-37-32.55199

Apparently, at some point in time, the description for this point was "accidentally overwritten" by the other description and thus is now lost. The situation is further complicated by the fact that there are at least 4 different places in Washington known as "Deception Pass". This marker, however, probably still exists, since it is in a park and therefore protected against development and should also be very easy to find. Here is my tongue-in-cheek description to assist you:

1) Proceed to your local map store.

2) Purchase a copy of the Deception Pass quad.

3) Drive to Mt. Erie Park.

4) Park in the Park parking lot icon_smile.gif.

5) Put on your hiking boots.

6) Follow the trail shown on the quad map as it winds southward up the mountain to the summit.

7) Stand on the summit and look around you.

The marker will be at or very near the peak. As with the other Tri-Station above, this one also has 2 reference marks. If you happen to spot the one marked "RM1" proceed west, the direction indicated by the arrow on the marker, for 11.26 meters to the Station. If you happen to spot the one marked "RM2" first, proceed south, as indicated by the arrow, 19.07 meters to the Station.

 

The lessons to be learned here are:

1) Know what you are looking for - A Triangulation Station is not the same thing as a benchmark.

2) Never, repeat never, assume the coordinates of a Tri-Station are wrong. Remember these points are all state-of-the-art and are some of the most precise points anywhere in the world.

3)Do your research - its as much a part of the search as walking and looking. All the info above is available at the NGS/NOAA website.

4)Above all, please refrain from making erroneous, unclear or misleading reports. This is exactly the kind of confusion that results from poor reports.

 

Refer to my earlier messages for further info.

Thanks to everyone who observes these rules.

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Many thanks to survey tech for your insightful humor. It took someone who has worked with the data to understand the types of things that can go wrong with it. Otherwise I end up shooting in the dark which is exactly what I was doing. I checked the NGS web site and duplicated survey tech's search so now I can apply my new found knowledge! One thing that stands out for me is that I now realize that the designation is very important. I tend to focus on the PID because it is the unique identifier, but I see many references to the designation, hardly any to the PID. Now, if only I lived anywhere near Washington, I'd take you up on the hike up Mt. Erie. Have fun Team 5-oh!

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So I guess my original questionn still stands. How do we fix it? Submit a recovery with the correct description? Should i take measurements from landmarks (microwave tower etc) or just estimate the distances?

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Since you say that a road has been built all the way to the top, there is a chance that some or all of the 3 disks may be gone, especially if they also built a parking lot and/or some kind of building up there. But hopefully they were aware of the markers and planned the development around them. If all 3 still remain, there is nothing to "fix". You could report that all markers are intact and just describe the new road leading to the area and state which side of the building or parking lot they are on. If you cannot find any one of them, inquire at the park office to find out what they know about what may have happened during the construction. Remember, you should only report them as missing if you actually see them removed or if park officials tell you they were removed. In either case, you should not need to make any measurements. Enjoy the trip.

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