Flamed for logging a maintenance report

[knowschad]

I'm sorely tempted to log my own NM on it from here in Minnesota! What an <expletive> JERK!! He knows that Florida is the Land of the Wet Cache, and yet he insists on hiding a film canister without even a ziplock to protect the log, hides it where the <expletive> sprinklers give it a constant soaking, and complains when somebody very VERY politely points out that it is a soaking wet mass of pulp?

 

No... you did well. I would not have been as kind or polite as you were. Well... yeah, I might have been, but only after biting the tip of my tongue off. This dude is waaaayyyy out of line.

[+Scubasonic]

Well he was right about one thing you are a NEWBIE!!! but me thinks this newbie has more common sense then the old timer with 3600 finds. He is dead wrong.

 

Scubasonic

[+Smurf]

So i did some caching out of town in St. Augustine. Found some good caches, mostly 35mm film cases. The locations were fun!

 

i came across two caches that needed repair. This specific one had water in the bottom of the film canister and the previous log and geocache paper were soaked and stuffed down into the bottom, nearly disintegrated. The other log was wet too, i tried to sign it but it was so wet it got ripped.

 

i logged a Needs Maintenance report and was called a newb who needs to be slapped. Wow. Harsh. The CO stated that it's just how Florida is. This is untrue as the other 5 caches of the same type were dry.

 

i though CO liked to hear how their cache is doing and that they are supposed to keep it in usable condition. Am i wrong? What's the point of signing a log if it just will be thrown away because it's not readable and in a wet ball?

 

Here's the report and snide comment:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ec-7ab257a51b69

 

i may be a newb to geocaching, but i have common sense...it doesn't take years of experience to know a log is too wet!

 

Thoughts? Should i not log maintenance reports? Does it just make CO's mad?

 

 

The cache owners responce (in my opinion) says to me that he/she isn't prepared to maintaiin his/her cache

 

and as such the cache should be archived

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

Your log entry for the listing Snowbird Heaven (Traditional Cache) was deleted by paintfiction at Saturday, 12 June 2010 04:07:40

 

His reply to my Needs Maintenance was removed too. Maybe that means it's being taken care of.

[+Bear and Ragged]

See it has a NM log from a few days before your visit...

Also (as far as I am aware) deleting a NM log doesn't get rid of the cross in the attributes!

 

If a cache needs maintenance, post NM.

It may be that the next cacher can take along something to sort out the problem. (Especially if it's only a wet log in a film can!)

[+paintfiction]

 

Funny! i'm not very social myself, like to have a lot of alone time. Even so, i'm not mean either. i wouldn't say someone needs a smack.

 

Anyway, i've decided to go about my business and write my semi detailed logs. i like writing them and reading them, as well and taking and posting pics. If the CO has something important to say they can email me (a few have, very nice folks). Otherwise, i'll chalk this CO up as jaded or give him a pass. Maybe he's had a bad day.

 

 

My apologies to you Seekeroftheway - my name is Jim. You would've known that and received a much nicer response if you had sent me a personal email and opened a dialogue. It's a smack to a cache owner to receive a "needs maintenance" log especially in cases like this cache. Had we conversed about it you would've learned some interesting things about the timing and placement of this cache. (Note the age of the cache for a hint) If my last sentences seem snarky (a favorite word here in the GC forums) as well I truly apologize. You did catch me on a bad day and I took out my personal frustration in my response to your NM log.

 

I really did enjoy your other log and even your NM wasn't bad at all - I was just having a very bad day. Please DO keep posting your detailed notes. I enjoy reading them.

 

As an old fart geocacher, caches that need maintenance are usually best dealt with by doing it yourself if all it needs is a scrap of paper or an email to the owner (no one likes to be called on the carpet in front of THE WHOLE WORLD (as this thread shows) ;-) or after the preceding steps have failed or are unavailable - post a needs maintenance log. I realize you are new and wouldn't know the local etiquette. For that you are most certainly forgiven. I trust you will forgive my rudeness to you.

 

Here's a bit of advice to you in your geocaching adventures - check out a local forum like nefga DOT com in our area. THIS forum is quick to get hateful and ugly and is woefully short on trying to heal things or make amends. I guess it's not entertaining enough.

 

The post to which I am replying is as far as I read. I read that far to see if you were a whiner. If so, I wouldn't have spent this amount of time on you. Thank you for trying to do the right thing. Come check out the locals - you will find we are not nearly as evil as some in here would have you believe. Normally I would send something like this post as a private email to you but every once in a while the people that spend way too much time in here looking for an argument need to learn how to politely deal with an issue.

 

I'll take my leave of this place and would be pleased to see a reply from you in my inbox. Best regards to you Seekeroftheway.

 

To the whiners in here - try settling an issue without all that awful whining. To those in here with serious, thoughtful, non hateful comments - keep up the good work but give the whiners a good smack once in a while.

 

Someone call me a troll? That *IS* funny! LOL!~!

 

If anyone wants me to read their replies, please cc my inbox as I will not be contnuing to follow this thread.Thanks!

[+AuntieWeasel]

Well, I never. Flames a noob, skips the whole thread about it and then calls US whiners.

 

I've been called worse by better people.

[+Chokecherry]

As discussed in another thread if a cache owner puts a cache out there I believe it is the owners ultimate responsibility to maintain those caches. Etiquette or not I don't carry supplies to fix all caches I find beyond taking garbage out and drying a damp one out. I may put a scrap of paper in or an extra baggy if the cache isn't demolished but I would still log a needs maintenance if I toss a scrap of paper in. It's kind of like people who have children. You can't expect everyone else to do the work for you. And if one has that much pride in their cache that a nm is that insulting you would suggest caring for it more often.

Edited June 12, 2010 by Chokecherry

[+velrahnkoon]

As discussed in another thread if a cache owner puts a cache out there I believe it is the owners ultimate responsibility to maintain those caches. Etiquette or not I don't carry supplies to fix all caches I find beyond taking garbage out and drying a damp one out. I may put a scrap of paper in or an extra baggy if the cache isn't demolished but I would still log a needs maintenance if I toss a scrap of paper in. It's kind of like people who have children. You can't expect everyone else to do the work for you. And if one has that much pride in their cache that a nm is that insulting you would suggest caring for it more often.

 

+1

 

I think the response here pisses me off more than the one on the cache page. It's YOUR CACHE! TAKE CARE OF IT YOU LAZY BUGGER!!!!!!!

 

I'm not here to replace logs for people and make sure THEIR cache is functioning correctly. I'm the finder. Nowhere have I read that the finder needs to carry extra logs with them to cover this type of situation. If you're going to have a cache, at least take the time to maintain it, as per the rules you agreed to by placing it in the first place.

 

Until this thread came up I never considered carrying extra logs, but that's not a bad idea. That doesn't mean that it's my responsibility to do so, however!! And to flame someone for NOT doing something they're NOT supposed to be expected to do anyway shows a distinct lack of maturity and judgment from someone who ought to know better, bad day or no.

 

And frankly I don't care how they do things on site X - the majority of the post is one giant, lame excuse for you acting like a #(%**(. This is Groundspeak. From what I've seen the people here hold themselves to a MUCH higher standard than the rest of the web. Someone with 3k+ caches and 7+ years ought to know that by now.

 

You were right on Seeker - I would have done the same thing.

[+dfx]

It's a smack to a cache owner to receive a "needs maintenance" log especially in cases like this cache. ... As an old fart geocacher, caches that need maintenance are usually best dealt with by doing it yourself if all it needs is a scrap of paper or an email to the owner (no one likes to be called on the carpet in front of THE WHOLE WORLD (as this thread shows) ;-) or after the preceding steps have failed or are unavailable - post a needs maintenance log.

i think this is where you are wrong. a NM log is not a smack to anyone. it doesn't say that the cache is bad, it doesn't say that the CO is bad. it's a tool for notifying the CO that the cache needs maintenance, and the CO is the only one who's ultimately responsible for doing that. even the guidelines say so.

[+SgtSue]

Hmm, I'm wondering how many Need Maint logs have been deleted. It appears when one is posted the CO logs a Owner Maint then deletes both but does not take care of the problem. A NM is not a "smack" but a notification something is wrong. Some do use it incorrectly but this case appears it was used properly. If I see something wrong with a cache and it isn't a big problem and appears new I will email the CO and mention in the log. If I see the same problem mentioned several times in others logs I usually will post a NM myself. While I may stick a bit of paper in to sign my name, I don't maintain other people's caches (unless a friend asks a favor). I travel often and don't often go to those local forums to know any local customs that may differ from the mainstream.

 

IMO - the CO's post here is the most insincere post I've seen in quite some time. It reads more like "I'm sorry you're wrong" than "I'm sorry for what I did". I can honestly say that I'm glad when I was in that area I didn't bother to search for any caches by that particular CO.

[+briansnat]

It's a smack to a cache owner to receive a "needs maintenance" log especially in cases like this cache.

 

That's the problem, cache owners who consider Needs Maint to be a "smack". There are way too many of them out there. It's not a smack, it is simply the tool provided by this website to alert the cache owner of a problem with his cache that needs attention. Wet logs fall into that category.

 

It's sad that veteran cache owner would slap a newbie for using this website's tools as intended.

 

Frankly I wish more people would use them (properly of course). It would make my job as a cache owner easier. On a nice weekend I can get dozens of logs on my caches and may just skim some of them and not catch the mention of a problem. A NM gets my attention. I can also run PQs on my caches to check for the NM attribute, just in case I missed a NM notification.

[+SeekerOfTheWay]

i do appreciate the CO's (Jim) reply and am talking with him via email. No harm, no foul. i learned some things from this so that's good.

[+MightyParagon]

I love my iPhone. It hs a little notes section, just like most phones nowadays. I have a note section for geocaching. I can put in names of hiders that I won't seek. It contains one name so far---care to guess?

 

Fortunately, his stuff is too far to the north for me, unless I travel. But when I AM in St. Augustine and surrounding areas....I will be skipping his stuff. There are already tons there to search for....more than I could ever do in a day, anyway.

 

Or maybe I need a smack, too, n00b that I am.

[+MightyParagon]

i do appreciate the CO's (Jim) reply and am talking with him via email. No harm, no foul. i learned some things from this so that's good.

 

Good. But the damage is already done as far as this newbie is concerned. In all that I do, from riding, to shooting, to touring Disney Parks---I hang out with only the best. I don't have time for mean/rude people.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

As an old fart geocacher, caches that need maintenance are usually best dealt with by doing it yourself if all it needs is a scrap of paper or an email to the owner (no one likes to be called on the carpet in front of THE WHOLE WORLD (as this thread shows) ;-) or after the preceding steps have failed or are unavailable - post a needs maintenance log. I realize you are new and wouldn't know the local etiquette. For that you are most certainly forgiven. I trust you will forgive my rudeness to you.

 

In my best Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka voice: "WRONG, SIR! WRONG!" Normally, I'm a giver. I'll replace baggies or add dry log sheets or fix up a cache if I can but I do that out of respect for a cache owner.

 

With your sense of entitlement and attitude, I wouldn't bother helping. It's your cache, you fix it.

[+d+n.s]

"Needs Maintenance" means "Needs Maintenance"

no need to read between the lines. I keep a spare log on me now after reading these forums, but its really silly (IMO) and defensive to consider a NM log a smack in the face.

 

I'm preparing and researching my first hide and I hope people will let me know when it needs maitenance. Furthermore, I hope they'll post it as a log so that other people who are going to look for it know what they need to know before going out there to find it.

[+JohnnyVegas]

It sounds like the cache owner is what we call in ham radio an Alpha Hotel.

As an owner of several caches needs maintanance reporsts are very usefull. My only problem is that some times I have forgoten what types of cache container I need for a cache in question

 

So i did some caching out of town in St. Augustine. Found some good caches, mostly 35mm film cases. The locations were fun!

 

i came across two caches that needed repair. This specific one had water in the bottom of the film canister and the previous log and geocache paper were soaked and stuffed down into the bottom, nearly disintegrated. The other log was wet too, i tried to sign it but it was so wet it got ripped.

 

i logged a Needs Maintenance report and was called a newb who needs to be slapped. Wow. Harsh. The CO stated that it's just how Florida is. This is untrue as the other 5 caches of the same type were dry.

 

i though CO liked to hear how their cache is doing and that they are supposed to keep it in usable condition. Am i wrong? What's the point of signing a log if it just will be thrown away because it's not readable and in a wet ball?

 

Here's the report and snide comment:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ec-7ab257a51b69

 

i may be a newb to geocaching, but i have common sense...it doesn't take years of experience to know a log is too wet!

 

Thoughts? Should i not log maintenance reports? Does it just make CO's mad?

[hoosier guy]

You're right to log a NM, but I have to admit -- I usually don't, for the reason you've just discovered. People can be awfully thin-skinned about their caches. I'll note in a regular 'found it' that the log is soaked (and I carry a felt-tip pen that will write on the soggiest paper!).

 

i may do that from now on. Make a note in my Found Report. Many others did that on this cache and since it was still wet i figured the CO didn't notice. That's why i did the report. Oh well, it's noted for others.

 

As I understnd it some COs do not often look at the logs because they have so many caches out or other reasons. So a note in the online log may not be noticed. Again to my understanding a NM will get quicker attention so if a log is full or unsignable I do a NM or I send a message to the CO depending on the condition.

 

At one point I was concerned about not unsetting COs with such things. Then I began to see that they are part of a triangle consisting of themselves, me and all the other cachers. I think I owe it to the CO to help them when I can and to help other cachers not waste their time on ruined logs and or caches unless they really want to. Yes when you are trying to do the best thing for the entire caching community you'll run into some who are not as friendly as one would like. But that is thier problem, not your's.

 

Have fun, see you on the trail.

[+roziecakes]

It's a smack to a cache owner to receive a "needs maintenance" log especially in cases like this cache. ... As an old fart geocacher, caches that need maintenance are usually best dealt with by doing it yourself if all it needs is a scrap of paper or an email to the owner (no one likes to be called on the carpet in front of THE WHOLE WORLD (as this thread shows) ;-) or after the preceding steps have failed or are unavailable - post a needs maintenance log.

i think this is where you are wrong. a NM log is not a smack to anyone. it doesn't say that the cache is bad, it doesn't say that the CO is bad. it's a tool for notifying the CO that the cache needs maintenance, and the CO is the only one who's ultimately responsible for doing that. even the guidelines say so.

 

I agree, I'm happy to get a NM log. It tells me I need to go well... do some maintenance. It doesn't make you look bad as a cache hider. Maybe I just pick more important things to be upset about. Those logs exist exactly for that reason.

 

I think that's the first time I've seen anyone regard a NM like a 'smack.' I think that's a little bit of an over-reaction; and he calls US whiners. Wow.

[+SixDogTeam]

Ten years ago, I never would have guessed what wonderful memories and nature BUSHWACKS I would have and what great places I would be taken to all because of the lowly little film canister! I've found hundreds and hidden scores. LONG LIVE 35MM CANS!!!

[+Team Cotati]

You know, it is not very likely that I'll ever be in St. Augustine, Fl. again. However if I ever am, I just might look the CO up, shake his hand, give him a big kiss and buy him a pineapple milkshake.

 

I really enjoyed my visit to St. Augustine, Fl. They had this really wonderful Cuban restaurant with a beautiful courtyard setting and a lovely fountain. Don't remember exactly what I had to eat but as I recall it was something Cuban and it was really really good. Great service and friendly staff.

 

Perhaps I'll take the CO there for dinner and have the pineapple shake for dessert.

[+brslk]

As an old fart geocacher, caches that need maintenance are usually best dealt with by doing it yourself if all it needs is a scrap of paper or an email to the owner (no one likes to be called on the carpet in front of THE WHOLE WORLD (as this thread shows) ;-) or after the preceding steps have failed or are unavailable - post a needs maintenance log. I realize you are new and wouldn't know the local etiquette. For that you are most certainly forgiven. I trust you will forgive my rudeness to you.

 

In my best Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka voice: "WRONG, SIR! WRONG!" Normally, I'm a giver. I'll replace baggies or add dry log sheets or fix up a cache if I can but I do that out of respect for a cache owner.

 

With your sense of entitlement and attitude, I wouldn't bother helping. It's your cache, you fix it.

 

+1

 

Glad to read that despite what I thought of the CO he an even bigger donkey than I thought.

 

Way to lose friends and alienate people buddy...

 

Even his "apology" was kinda backhanded.