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NO GEOCACHING IN THE YEARS TO COME?!?!?

yodabuds

By yodabuds
in General geocaching topics

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roziecakes

+roziecakes

Posted
Posted

When this happened about 10-ish years ago, the problems were temporary. I'm sure that the military would replace any GPS satellites that could possibly be destroyed, if any get destroyed at all.

 

That being said, sun spot activity isn't just a myth; it actually does do damage if strong enough. There was some damage in 99, a significant corruption being font corruption on some computers that had to be fixed, it didn't just go away when the sunspots activity lessened.

 

We'll just have to see how it goes!

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jholly

jholly

Posted
Posted
There was some damage in 99, a significant corruption being font corruption on some computers that had to be fixed, it didn't just go away when the sunspots activity lessened.

Huh?!? :blink: You are pulling our legs, right? Please say you are.

Oh no. Font corruption is a very serious problem. We had a bout of that at work. It took a lot of work and long hours to get it fixed. It seemed that it was worse on the larger computers but not so bad on the desktops.

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knowschad

knowschad

Posted
Posted
There was some damage in 99, a significant corruption being font corruption on some computers that had to be fixed, it didn't just go away when the sunspots activity lessened.

Huh?!? :blink: You are pulling our legs, right? Please say you are.

Oh no. Font corruption is a very serious problem. We had a bout of that at work. It took a lot of work and long hours to get it fixed. It seemed that it was worse on the larger computers but not so bad on the desktops.

Uh huh. OK. Font corruption. Yup. Other data was OK? Only font data got targeted. :D
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Gitchee-Gummee

+Gitchee-Gummee

Posted
Posted
There was some damage in 99, a significant corruption being font corruption on some computers that had to be fixed, it didn't just go away when the sunspots activity lessened.

Huh?!? :blink: You are pulling our legs, right? Please say you are.

Actually no. I don't remember the year or mission, but the space shuttle returned early once due to a huge flare. Couple of commo satellites were lost.

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roziecakes

+roziecakes

Posted
Posted (edited)
There was some damage in 99, a significant corruption being font corruption on some computers that had to be fixed, it didn't just go away when the sunspots activity lessened.

Huh?!? :blink: You are pulling our legs, right? Please say you are.

 

No I'm not actually, my husband was involved in fixing some of the problems caused by sunspots. He's worked with computers over 15 years. I don't know the exact details of the situation...

 

I'm sure there were other problems as well, but the particular problem that he had to deal with was font corruption. It wasn't like it was a huge big deal, but it did happen.

 

Sorry you don't believe me. When I'm not so busy at work I can ask him for a more detailed description of what happened. Just didn't think that was necessary on a geocaching forum.

Edited by nymphnsatyr
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roziecakes

+roziecakes

Posted
Posted
There was some damage in 99, a significant corruption being font corruption on some computers that had to be fixed, it didn't just go away when the sunspots activity lessened.

Huh?!? :blink: You are pulling our legs, right? Please say you are.

Oh no. Font corruption is a very serious problem. We had a bout of that at work. It took a lot of work and long hours to get it fixed. It seemed that it was worse on the larger computers but not so bad on the desktops.

Uh huh. OK. Font corruption. Yup. Other data was OK? Only font data got targeted. :D

 

Um... I didn't say that. I just mentioned it as an example that I knew of. Why on earth would I think that would be the only thing that had a problem? :D

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fizzymagic

+fizzymagic

Posted
Posted
Scary stuff..... just something to ponder....

Chicken Little indeed. We seem to get these posts here about every few months, based on some badly-written scaremongering news report like the linked one.

 

Here's a hint: we have been through several solar maxima since satellites were first launched, and a few have been lost. But not many. And it's not like the designers didn't know about solar flares or anything.

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knowschad

knowschad

Posted
Posted

Um... I didn't say that. I just mentioned it as an example that I knew of. Why on earth would I think that would be the only thing that had a problem? :blink:

Hey hey hey... sorry... don't take it personally just because I'm skeptical. All I'm saying is that fonts are just data, just like any other data. I suppose that on some systems that I'm not aware of, that data may be loaded into an area or type of memory that for some reason was more susceptable to corruption, but that seems a stretch to me. I seriously thought that you were pulling our collective legs.
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mchaos

+mchaos

Posted
Posted

BAH, another one off on solar flares. The solar cycle is 11 years. Every 11 years we get high solar activity and it fades out through the cycle.

 

As for damage on earth? Are you kidding me? The earths electromagnetic field keeps any of this from getting through our atmosphere.

 

We lost very few satellites because of solar activity.

 

Now as for loosing GPS signals.. Not gonna happen, unless of course we loose a satellite. But there are quite a few out there.

 

There is an interesting phenomenon called skip that occurs during a solar flare. The ionosphere is charged with energy. This energy cause Radio Frequencies to bounce off of the ionosphere and "skip" across it. In the world of Radio, such as CB and HAM, this causes radio communications around the world. In other words, for lets say CB radio which is 27mhz and designed for local line of sight communication. Typically around 8 to 12 miles range. When skip is active you can talk thousands of miles away. Same goes for HAM bands.

 

Now the think is that the higher the frequency and the shorter the wavelength, the less these signals bounce. GPS with frequencies around (1227.6 MHz and 1575.42 MHz) The charged ionosphere will have little effect on accuracy of GPS.

 

The same with cell phones because they are around 800 mhz.

 

As for solar flares effecting computers, I highly doubt it because it doesn't get past the ionosphere. If it could we would have been fried a long time ago by cosmic rays where are over 1000 times more dangerous.

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Andronicus

Andronicus

Posted
Posted (edited)

Is this the bi-monthly "GPS is doomed" thread?

 

As I have mentioned before, all indication suggest that this solar maximum will be the lowest in the space age. GPS survived the last one which was a rather nasty one, so don't sell your GPSr just yet.

 

You can likely expect some short term issues either with reduction in accuracy, or possible even a blackout, but should be few and far between (this cycle - check back in 11 years for the next cycle.)

Edited by Andronicus
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Andronicus

Andronicus

Posted
Posted (edited)

On a more serious note, during a particularly sevear solar maximu, the power grid was damaged.

 

From NASA website

 

In March 1989, a solar storm ... caused the Hydro-Quebec (Canada) power grid to go down for over nine hours, and the resulting damages and loss in revenue were estimated to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Edited by Andronicus
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atmospherium

+atmospherium

Posted
Posted
I resent that remark. That is clearly Racist Hate mongering.

 

I understand. A lifetime spent counting beaver pelts and trying to figure their dollar value on the all-important US market is enough to give any Canadian a rather jaundiced view of their superior neighbors to the south.

 

***DISCLAIMER*** atmospherium lives next door to Canada and can't think of any country he would rather live next door to. In other words, he likes Canada.

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roziecakes

+roziecakes

Posted
Posted

Um... I didn't say that. I just mentioned it as an example that I knew of. Why on earth would I think that would be the only thing that had a problem? :blink:

Hey hey hey... sorry... don't take it personally just because I'm skeptical. All I'm saying is that fonts are just data, just like any other data. I suppose that on some systems that I'm not aware of, that data may be loaded into an area or type of memory that for some reason was more susceptable to corruption, but that seems a stretch to me. I seriously thought that you were pulling our collective legs.

 

Oh no, I'm not taking it personally, no worries. I'm also not pulling your leg though! My husband just got done with work, I'll have a better answer in a few. Promise :D

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mndvs737

+mndvs737

Posted
Posted

Here's the big thing to remember - GPS was created not for civilian use (i.e., geocaching, car navigation, workout tracking, etc.), but for military purposes. Many cite the need for accurate positioning of "mobile launch platforms" (SSBN's, long-range strategic bombers, etc.) during the Cold War, and the technology has seen an expanded role (cruise missile guidance, remotely-operated drones, etc.). If something happens to any of the satellites, I am very sure that it will be quickly repaired/replaced due to their investment and reliance on the system.

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roziecakes

+roziecakes

Posted
Posted

Okay: In regards to the fonts...

 

Here is what my husband says:

 

Sunspots can cause a fluctuation in magnetic fields. 99.9% of the time it is a very small amount and nothing happens. Occasionally a small amount of radiation gets to the earth. Hard disks in computers also have fluctuating magnetic fields, and if sunspot activity is strong enough occasionally a problem could happen.

 

He was working in the San Francisco Bay Area at the time, and about 3 dozen (see a very small amount, so no big tragedy) computers were wiped of their fonts. He says there is a chance it was purely coincidental, but this phenomenon happened at no other time, and sunspot activity was particularly high that day.

 

The fix was easy, they just had to reinstall the fonts (with a floppy disc).

 

He says "It seems absurd I know that sunspots would affect fonts, but it also seems absurd that they would affect cell phones, but there are documented occurences of this happening to them."

 

:blink:

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knowschad

knowschad

Posted
Posted (edited)
Okay: In regards to the fonts...

 

Here is what my husband says:

 

Sunspots can cause a fluctuation in magnetic fields. 99.9% of the time it is a very small amount and nothing happens. Occasionally a small amount of radiation gets to the earth. Hard disks in computers also have fluctuating magnetic fields, and if sunspot activity is strong enough occasionally a problem could happen.

 

He was working in the San Francisco Bay Area at the time, and about 3 dozen (see a very small amount, so no big tragedy) computers were wiped of their fonts. He says there is a chance it was purely coincidental, but this phenomenon happened at no other time, and sunspot activity was particularly high that day.

 

The fix was easy, they just had to reinstall the fonts (with a floppy disc).

 

He says "It seems absurd I know that sunspots would affect fonts, but it also seems absurd that they would affect cell phones, but there are documented occurences of this happening to them."

 

:D

I don't question that sunspots could affect data on a harddrive (although, how the floppy drives survived when the harddrives were affected is a puzzle) but that it would only affect the fonts, and not all the other data on those drives is what I am questioning. It is all just mangetic "ones and zeros" to the harddrive. Never mind. I just had it explained to me in a PM. :blink: Edited by knowschad
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jholly

jholly

Posted
Posted

Here's the big thing to remember - GPS was created not for civilian use (i.e., geocaching, car navigation, workout tracking, etc.), but for military purposes. Many cite the need for accurate positioning of "mobile launch platforms" (SSBN's, long-range strategic bombers, etc.) during the Cold War, and the technology has seen an expanded role (cruise missile guidance, remotely-operated drones, etc.). If something happens to any of the satellites, I am very sure that it will be quickly repaired/replaced due to their investment and reliance on the system.

 

Now here is something to contemplate. To be effective SSBN must be submerged. Now how does that punny satellite signal get through all that water when you can't get a good lock under heavy tree cover?

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mndvs737

+mndvs737

Posted
Posted

Now here is something to contemplate. To be effective SSBN must be submerged. Now how does that punny satellite signal get through all that water when you can't get a good lock under heavy tree cover?

They would get a GPS position fix in the same way they get communications when submerged - antenna that can be raised from the mast to extend a short distance above the surface of the water while the sub itself stays submerged (conning tower included).

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jholly

jholly

Posted
Posted

Now here is something to contemplate. To be effective SSBN must be submerged. Now how does that punny satellite signal get through all that water when you can't get a good lock under heavy tree cover?

They would get a GPS position fix in the same way they get communications when submerged - antenna that can be raised from the mast to extend a short distance above the surface of the water while the sub itself stays submerged (conning tower included).

 

Of course, silly me. The entire mission is down with the antenna stuck above the water. got it.

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Chrysalides

+Chrysalides

Posted
Posted

Now here is something to contemplate. To be effective SSBN must be submerged. Now how does that punny satellite signal get through all that water when you can't get a good lock under heavy tree cover?

They would get a GPS position fix in the same way they get communications when submerged - antenna that can be raised from the mast to extend a short distance above the surface of the water while the sub itself stays submerged (conning tower included).

 

Of course, silly me. The entire mission is down with the antenna stuck above the water. got it.

Similarly, all you need for the woods is a GPSr capable of connecting to an external antenna, and using a balloon to hoist that above the tree line.

 

Personally, I'll just cut down the trees and be done with it.

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roziecakes

+roziecakes

Posted
Posted
Okay: In regards to the fonts...

 

Here is what my husband says:

 

Sunspots can cause a fluctuation in magnetic fields. 99.9% of the time it is a very small amount and nothing happens. Occasionally a small amount of radiation gets to the earth. Hard disks in computers also have fluctuating magnetic fields, and if sunspot activity is strong enough occasionally a problem could happen.

 

He was working in the San Francisco Bay Area at the time, and about 3 dozen (see a very small amount, so no big tragedy) computers were wiped of their fonts. He says there is a chance it was purely coincidental, but this phenomenon happened at no other time, and sunspot activity was particularly high that day.

 

The fix was easy, they just had to reinstall the fonts (with a floppy disc).

 

He says "It seems absurd I know that sunspots would affect fonts, but it also seems absurd that they would affect cell phones, but there are documented occurences of this happening to them."

 

;)

I don't question that sunspots could affect data on a harddrive (although, how the floppy drives survived when the harddrives were affected is a puzzle) but that it would only affect the fonts, and not all the other data on those drives is what I am questioning. It is all just mangetic "ones and zeros" to the harddrive. Never mind. I just had it explained to me in a PM. :ph34r:

 

;) Nice. :lol:

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knowschad

knowschad

Posted
Posted
Okay: In regards to the fonts...

 

Here is what my husband says:

 

Sunspots can cause a fluctuation in magnetic fields. 99.9% of the time it is a very small amount and nothing happens. Occasionally a small amount of radiation gets to the earth. Hard disks in computers also have fluctuating magnetic fields, and if sunspot activity is strong enough occasionally a problem could happen.

 

He was working in the San Francisco Bay Area at the time, and about 3 dozen (see a very small amount, so no big tragedy) computers were wiped of their fonts. He says there is a chance it was purely coincidental, but this phenomenon happened at no other time, and sunspot activity was particularly high that day.

 

The fix was easy, they just had to reinstall the fonts (with a floppy disc).

 

He says "It seems absurd I know that sunspots would affect fonts, but it also seems absurd that they would affect cell phones, but there are documented occurences of this happening to them."

 

;)

I don't question that sunspots could affect data on a harddrive (although, how the floppy drives survived when the harddrives were affected is a puzzle) but that it would only affect the fonts, and not all the other data on those drives is what I am questioning. It is all just mangetic "ones and zeros" to the harddrive. Never mind. I just had it explained to me in a PM. :ph34r:

 

;) Nice. :lol:

<snicker> You don't know what the explaination was. </snicker>
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TheAlabamaRambler

+TheAlabamaRambler

Posted
Posted

Here's the big thing to remember - GPS was created not for civilian use (i.e., geocaching, car navigation, workout tracking, etc.), but for military purposes. Many cite the need for accurate positioning of "mobile launch platforms" (SSBN's, long-range strategic bombers, etc.) during the Cold War, and the technology has seen an expanded role (cruise missile guidance, remotely-operated drones, etc.). If something happens to any of the satellites, I am very sure that it will be quickly repaired/replaced due to their investment and reliance on the system.

 

Now here is something to contemplate. To be effective SSBN must be submerged. Now how does that punny satellite signal get through all that water when you can't get a good lock under heavy tree cover?

It doesn't. The missile acquires signal once it achieves the surface.

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brslk

+brslk

Posted
Posted (edited)

Here's the big thing to remember - GPS was created not for civilian use (i.e., geocaching, car navigation, workout tracking, etc.), but for military purposes. Many cite the need for accurate positioning of "mobile launch platforms" (SSBN's, long-range strategic bombers, etc.) during the Cold War, and the technology has seen an expanded role (cruise missile guidance, remotely-operated drones, etc.). If something happens to any of the satellites, I am very sure that it will be quickly repaired/replaced due to their investment and reliance on the system.

 

Now here is something to contemplate. To be effective SSBN must be submerged. Now how does that punny satellite signal get through all that water when you can't get a good lock under heavy tree cover?

It doesn't. The missile acquires signal once it achieves the surface.

 

^That is my thought also. Perhaps why they just aim them in the general direction and they go all squirrely until they get a signal lock.

 

I have no idea if I am correct but it makes sense.

Edited by brslk
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7rxc

7rxc

Posted
Posted

They probably still have very good (if old school) INS gear on the boats... good for initial settings to this day... That was the mainstay for sub navigation during the cold war... GPS is the new kid.

 

Oh! Sorry... Inertial Navigation System... INS. For the kids. All of the other methods work too, but with limits while submerged... I believe they can even do sun sights etc. using the scopes.

 

Doug 7rxc

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jholly

jholly

Posted
Posted
<snicker> You don't know what the explaination was. </snicker>

Does it have anything to do with sunburn, a toilet brush, whipped cream, seven chihuahuas and two candy bars?

 

If so, I disavow all knowledge of the incident.

This is a story I think needs to be told.

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Sioneva

+Sioneva

Posted
Posted
<snicker> You don't know what the explaination was. </snicker>

Does it have anything to do with sunburn, a toilet brush, whipped cream, seven chihuahuas and two candy bars?

 

If so, I disavow all knowledge of the incident.

This is a story I think needs to be told.

 

Chrys, you promised not to. You SWORE!

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