How to Log these finds??

[+mustanglx]

I was out today doing some BM searching. The BM's that are in question are KW2873, KW2874 & KW2875.

The question for KW2873 is that it was a Fire Tower. When I hiked to the site there was a sign that said "The site of the Sherman Mtn Fire Tower, 1926-1976". There is no Fire Tower and all that I could find was an old foundation. Should I log this as a "not Found" or "Destroyed"?

The next BM, KW2874, I could not find the station mark but I was able to find No.1 Referance mark. I searched for No.2 but could not find it either. "Not found", "Found", "Destroyed"?

The last BM in question is about how I should notify NGS about a found BM that was logged "Not found" back in 1966. BM KW2875 I was able to find the station mark and ref. NO.2 mark. I looked for Ref. No.1 but it looked like it would be in on private property so I could not find it. The direction to the station are no longer good, I think that the trail that they are talking about is now a road to several hunting cabins. Should I drive the roads from the town mentioned in the directions and note mileage to intersections and which way to turn or just send pics. of the found station and let them worry about the directions?

Sorry for the long post, any help on these would be great. I am so happy that I found a triangulation station that was said to be not found. Cool.

 

mustanglx

[+gnbrotz]

quote:

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Originally posted by mustanglx:

The question for KW2873 is that it was a Fire Tower. When I hiked to the site there was a sign that said "The site of the Sherman Mtn Fire Tower, 1926-1976". There is no Fire Tower and all that I could find was an old foundation. Should I log this as a "not Found" or "Destroyed"?

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I would log this as a "not found" unless I saw the tower fall. Even if I talked to a local ranger who personally knew it's fate, I would probably still call it "not found" and say something like, "Spoke to Ranger Smith who informed me of it's destruction in January 2000", or something similar.

quote:

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Originally posted by mustanglx:

The next BM, KW2874, I could not find the station mark but I was able to find No.1 Referance mark. I searched for No.2 but could not find it either. "Not found", "Found", "Destroyed"?

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Since the PID in question is for the station itself, this would definitely be a "not found" for me. But DO be sure to mention that you did locate RM1. This will give the next person the most recent info on it's condition.

quote:

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Originally posted by mustanglx:

The last BM in question is about how I should notify NGS about a found BM that was logged "Not found" back in 1966. BM KW2875 I was able to find the station mark and ref. NO.2 mark. I looked for Ref. No.1 but it looked like it would be in on private property so I could not find it. The direction to the station are no longer good, I think that the trail that they are talking about is now a road to several hunting cabins. Should I drive the roads from the town mentioned in the directions and note mileage to intersections and which way to turn or just send pics. of the found station and let them worry about the directions?

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If you're going to take the time and report it to NGS, I'd suggest doing it as thorough as possible. If you can't find the owner, get denied, or just don't want to seek permission, I'd note that in your report too. "Did not attemt to recover RM2 since permission from property owner was denied/not obtained" would be something I would include.

 

If you decide to update the "To reach" directions (I would encourage this), I'd be glad to get together and help you. I'm close enough that this would not be a major trip for me, and since I share your affinity for Tri-stations, it would give me another one to tackle!

 

Greg

N 39 54.705'

W 77 33.137'

[+mustanglx]

Thanks gnbrotz for the info.

I kind of thought that is how I should log them but I figured that there is alot people out there that has more BM searching experience than I do.

 

mustanglx

[+beejay&esskay]

quote:

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Originally posted by mustanglx:

The question for KW2873 is that it was a Fire Tower. When I hiked to the site there was a sign that said "The site of the Sherman Mtn Fire Tower, 1926-1976". There is no Fire Tower and all that I could find was an old foundation. Should I log this as a "not Found" or "Destroyed"?

mustanglx

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There may be no "right" answer, but this is what I'd do:

 

If my GPS matched the (adjusted) coordinates given for KW2873, I'd log it as "destroyed" here and "not found" (with a description of why you think it's destroyed) on the NGS site.

[BeachBum22]

quote:

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The question for KW2873 is that it was a Fire Tower. When I hiked to the site there was a sign that said "The site of the Sherman Mtn Fire Tower, 1926-1976". There is no Fire Tower and all that I could find was an old foundation. Should I log this as a "not Found" or "Destroyed"?

---

 

Since none of the pros have looked for it since 1935, maybe you should log it as NOBODY CARES

Seems like the RIP sign should be evidence that it's not there anymore, but from what I've read here NGS has some wierd ideas as to what's been destroyed, so if you mean should you report it to them as destroyed, who knows.

 

quote:

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The next BM, KW2874, I could not find the station mark but I was able to find No.1 Referance mark. I searched for No.2 but could not find it either. "Not found", "Found", "Destroyed"?

---

 

I think I'd pick NOT FOUND for that one. If I logged everything I can't find as DESTROYED, there'd be very few benchmarks left to look for around here.

[+rogbarn]

quote:

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Originally posted by beejay&esskay:

There may be no "right" answer, but this is what I'd do:

 

If my GPS matched the (adjusted) coordinates given for KW2873, I'd log it as "destroyed" here and "not found" (with a description of why you think it's destroyed) on the NGS site.

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I agree with b&e. It has an adjusted location which should be exact within the limits of a GPSr unit. The plaque indicates it is gone. As long as your GPS matched, log it as destroyed here. Due to the more stringent criteria used by the NGS, if you log it with them, I would log it as not found with all the documentation written up for the description.

[+GeckoGeek]

quote:

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Originally posted by mustanglx:

The question for KW2873 is that it was a Fire Tower. When I hiked to the site there was a sign that said "The site of the Sherman Mtn Fire Tower, 1926-1976". There is no Fire Tower and all that I could find was an old foundation. Should I log this as a "not Found" or "Destroyed"?

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I would log it at Destroyed both in Geo and NGS. The site has positivly been located and identified, but structure has been removed so positional integrety has been permanently lost.

 

Note that in order to report to NGS as destroyed, you have to send an email to Deb Brown. As such, I don't think it's possible to incorrectly report a distruction short of manufacturing evidence.

 

I would strongly urge reporting SOMETHING to the NGS. Otherwise if a tower was constructed on this site someone might use it as a marker not realizing that it's not the original marker.

 

quote:

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The next BM, KW2874, I could not find the station mark but I was able to find No.1 Referance mark. I searched for No.2 but could not find it either. "Not found", "Found", "Destroyed"?

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"Not found" with notes.

 

quote:

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The last BM in question is about how I should notify NGS about a found BM that was logged "Not found" back in 1966. BM KW2875 I was able to find the station mark and ref. NO.2 mark. I looked for Ref. No.1 but it looked like it would be in on private property so I could not find it. The direction to the station are no longer good,

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"Found" with notes.

 

By all means, update the directions. I don't know to what level you need to go to on your new directions. With the advent of GPS it seems unnecessary to go into the same level of detail that the old descriptions had in them unless the approach is tricky. I would concentrate on directions for the "last mile" or so to the site.

[+GeckoGeek]

This reply from Deb Brown (NGS):

 

The criteria for listing a landmark station as destroyed is a little more relaxed than a station disk. For landmark stations such as a tower, just send me a photo in JPEG format of the area where the tower was and please include the PID and Designation of the station.

 

For disks, a photo of the remnants of the disk is required. If the setting is there but no disk, then use the online form to list it NOT FOUND or POOR and in the text portion of the form state what you found.

 

I hope this helps.

 

deb

 

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It sounds to me like you have what's needed to report the tower destroyed.