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Colorado Papa

Who is (was) the US POWER SQUADRON?

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I have run into various Found or Not Found logged in 1997 by the US POWER SQUADRON. Until today, I trusted their findings. However, today I found JK0267 (R 292) exactly as given in the description but had been logged by the above group as Not Found! Are these professionals paid by the US Government, students or individuals like most of us?

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It's a boating group. You can find one answer on this thread, along with a link to their web site.

 

Many experienced benchmarkers take their reports with a grain of salt. They rarely if ever add any helpful descripive information, just a 'found' or 'not found.' Also, many of us have found too many errors in their reporting to consider their work very reliable.

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Interesting! Thanks for the followup and the thread. Found the nearest chapter in Boulder, CO, 100 miles from here. Will go back through their data for "Not Found" disks and see what I can find. They probably should stick with nautical problems in maps and leave the railroads and highways to land lovers.

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I am not sure how to answer that but we all have not finds even the NGS,that may be found see: http://www.Geocaching.com/mark/details.asp?PID=GG0052 And things like that go through every aspect of life,There are those whom act responsibly and there are those who do not.

 

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS*GEOTRYAGAIN **1803-2003 "LOUSIANA PURCHASE" "LEWIS AND CLARK EXPADITION" http://www.lapurchase.org http://arkansasstateparks.com/lapurchase/ http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails

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I guess this is why it is important to log things as "not found" rather than destroyed unless you have positive proof that it actually is destroyed.

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The United States Power Squadron (USPS) has a written agreement with the National Ocean Service (NOS) called the Cooperative Charting Program. (The NOS and the National Geodetic Survey (NGS) are both parts of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).) Included in this program are things like validating depths on charts, measuring tidal currents, reviewing small craft facilities of marinas, and geodetic mark recovery (probably a minor aspect of the Program).

 

Here is the United States Power Squadron's webpage on the Cooperative Charting Program. In it, click: [Next, Field Activities, 6. Geodetic Mark Recovery, More] to get to the interesting part for us.

 

Here is the NOAA website on the Cooperative Charting Program.

 

I think it must be admitted that there are mistakes in geodetic mark recoveries made by both our group and the USPS. So instead of getting into a stick-poking battle with them over comparitive mark recovery quality, I think both groups should concentrate on improving their own quality.

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quote:
Originally posted by Black Dog Trackers: I think it must be admitted that there are mistakes in geodetic mark recoveries made by both our group and the USPS. So instead of getting into a stick-poking battle with them over comparitive mark recovery quality, I think both groups should concentrate on improving their own quality.

BDT - well said!

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In this particular case, the station was not hidden by trees or bushes, just a big boulder out in the open and at the proper location. Was not difficult to find. Even the coordinates were fairly accurate. It appears that the station was never checked by USPS so therefore was logged as Not Found. Would be better not to make a log at all.

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Just a quick aside... Last summer my cruddy part-time summer job was working for a company that sold uniforms etc to the USPS. I can remember making a 56" belt. Some are good boatie-types, some just have the $ for a boat. Their convention will never have the "Wild On" film crew show up either. I passed the "Navigator" test with a 95, so I engraved a plaque for "Joey Ramone, Rockaway Beach USPS"

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quote:
Originally posted by Black Dog Trackers:

 

http://www.usps.org/national/coch/ is the United States Power Squadron's webpage on the Cooperative Charting Program. In it, click: [Next, Field Activities, 6. Geodetic Mark Recovery, More] to get to the interesting part for us.

 

http://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/mcd/uspscoop/index.htm is the NOAA website on the Cooperative Charting Program.


 

"In order for the USPS participants to receive the Cooperative Charting credits they deserve for mark recovery reports, they must also report to NOS the fact that they have submitted a specific number of marks to NGS."

 

What are these credits and how many number of marks? I also see that they need to keep track of their time and mileage. Why? Can they take credit on income taxes for volunteer time? If NGS recognizes them for their efforts, then geocaching.com participants should also be recognized.

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Being a member of the USPS means you have to do a minimum amount of community service. That is what credits are for.

 

For my USGS mapping, I also have to keep track of my hours and report them to the USGS. They have to track all that stuff.

 

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case... icon_biggrin.gif

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I notice some near me are reported by the same person every year under the US Power Squadron. This guy must vacation here all the time, drive by and see the mark still there. His initials are on many recovery's around here, one 1934 mark in particular he found, USC&GS did not find in 1948 and I have not found in 3 yrs of looking on and off. The area is completely changed and its impossible to see how he found it when nothing exists of the location anymore, nothing! Only thing in the area is a section corner being a survey disk in concrete and that must look like it to him. I found several USPS ones as not found but when I pulled up, there was a 30 yrs metal witness post in plain site. Its apparent some just are interested in numbers and don't really look all that hard or want to get dirty.

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quote:
Being a member of the USPS means you have to do a minimum amount of community service. That is what credits are for.

 

For my USGS mapping, I also have to keep track of my hours and report them to the USGS. They have to track all that stuff.

 

DustyJacket


 

I'm still confused about these credits. What are they good for? Movies, merit badges, gifts, ???

 

Why does the USGS care about the number of hours

spent looking for these things? Are they interested in how many hours the rest of us spend on searching for BMs, including research time at local libraries finding old maps and photos to verify the results?

 

When I worked for the Bureau of Reclamation, they paid me to find BMs. Can I cash in on my "credits"?

 

1950 Surveyor

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I recently found a USPS not found disk that was very easy to find and searched the forums for Squadron. This is on of the threads I discovered. While I don't like to denigrate people... ok ok, that is a lie... but I did start to wonder why an easy mark was not found. I looked on the USPS site and found the following tip for benchmark hunting that might explain it...

 

Think of fun activities or places to go during or after the mark recovery. Maybe you want to finish the expedition at a pizza parlor or maybe at a miniature golf course. Maybe you can set up a barbecue or picnic at the end of the trip. Perhaps the geodetic mark recovery can be coordinated with a cruise or rendezvous. Think about advertising the event as an opportunity for members to learn more about their handheld GPS units. My personal favorite event was the GMR expedition with intermediate stops at local wineries. A member that has fun on a geodetic mark recovery expedition is a member who will come back for more.

 

Perhaps the highlighted text explains some things?

 

:D

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Why does the USGS care about the number of hours

spent looking for these things? Are they interested in how many hours the rest of us spend on searching for BMs, including research time at local libraries finding old maps and photos to verify the results?

 

There are probably many reasons but the one I can think is to determine if the person was diligent in his work. If some only spent 10 hrs doing something that should have taken an expert 80 hrs, that would indicate the quality of work.

 

Also its helpful in determining the extent of work done by the individual. How can you see if a program is worth while if you have no statistics to evaluate the product rendered.

 

Also with USG volunteers, when you reach certain levels, they reward you with a small token like a T-Shirt, baseball cap, USG decal etc.

 

btw - I have all 3 over the 6 yrs I have been involved not mention the enjoyment of roaming the outdoors in my Z71 and ATV. Found some good fishing holes also, hit 1 deer and stumbled on a Moose which almost wiped on my 1995 Blazer when he crossing the road about 10 ft in in front me.

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Also with USG volunteers, when you reach certain levels, they reward you with a small token like a T-Shirt, baseball cap, USG decal etc.

 

 

Just what I need, another cap and t-shirt. :o

Where do I pick them up? :(

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Dredging up an old forum topic here, but I was wondering if anyone has ever met, or seen someone from the power squadron out benchmarking?

 

On the way into work today I happened to see three "kids" (I think they could have been anywhere from 18-28) in a parking lot for an abandoned store on a busy street corner. They were looking at the ground and poking about at things that looked like steel covers for manholes, or other pipes. One of them had a tall staff with what looked like some electronics in a "T" at the top. A second was waving what looked like a really long geiger counter at the ground, and the third had a three ring binder and was looking around the parking lot.

 

The one with the "T" looking device kept walking up to different metal plate covers and placing it on the center of them, and kicking stones around. The other with the geiger counter type thing (metal detector?) kept waving it around pointed toward the ground. I looked online, and I don't think there is a survey marker on that corner.

 

The three of them didn't really look like the kind that would be close friends, a tall skinny black guy, a short stocky guy with piercings and facial hair, and a ordinary white guy. No uniforms or hard hats or anything, just shirts and jackets. I wondered if they were part of a surveying class at a local school or college, or maybe the power squadron? I thought maybe its a school thing because they didn't really seem interested in what they were doing (and who liked school back then).

 

I saw them in a downtown area that isn't the most friendliest of places, in fact there were 3 police cars on the next corner. They also didn't seem like the type of people that wanted to discuss benchmarking so I drove on. I have actually been thinking of looking for some disks in the area, but it is really lousy, the kind of area you don't want to be poking around peoples yards or anywhere near the street.

 

But it made me wonder, has anyone met the power squadron?

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I've met some Power Squadron folks in the context of BOATING (which is where they normally operate). I even went to a local boating safety class years ago put on by them (jointly, I think, with the US Coast Guard Auxiliary). They all seemed like nice, knowledgeable folks in that arena.

 

But I have no personal experience with them in the Benchmarking arena. Just seeing their name, like many GC benchmarkers have, on various NGS reports, some of better apparent veracity than others.

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As have others, I have recovered marks previously reported NOT FOUND by the USPS. For at least a few, it was obvious that the individuals reporting didn't even slow down as they drove past. Certainly some, or even most of them are really putting an effort into it, but I think the problem lies in that their point system forces them to report SOMETHING to the NGS. We are lucky in that our group (Geocachers) has a place for the casual fun logs, where no harm can be done if the report is completely wrong. Those of us who are really serious can, if we like, go the next step and make our reports to the NGS.

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Why does the USGS care about the number of hours<BR>spent looking for these things? Are they interested in how many hours the rest of us spend on searching for BMs, including research time at local libraries finding old maps and photos to verify the results?<BR><BR>When I worked for the Bureau of Reclamation, they paid me to find BMs. Can I cash in on my "credits"?<BR><BR>1950 Surveyor

 

Probably for the same reason that NYNJTC wants to know how many hours I spend maintaining my trail. Theoretically, it tells them that I am working on it (though, there are people who prevaricate! :laughing: ) It's always good to know the statistics. AND, it's a pride issue and selling point. "Hey, State Park Commission, X number of maitainers have spent Y hours maintaining trails in your parks." Works well trying to get grants from foundations, and governments.

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I've never met anyone from the U.S. Power Squadrons out in the field, and I share the skepticism of many here in the quality of their reports. But to be fair, they have a lot of members who contribute their time to reporting the recovery of NGS benchmarks, and the quality varies widely. I was recently in Caroline County, on Maryland's Eastern Shore, where a lot of marks have USPSQD reports, and they were generally of high value and substantive quality. One example is their report for station CHAPEL (HU2098).

 

-ArtMan-

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..don't get many USPSQD visits in my area, but I ran across a well-detailed recent USPSQD visit to one I recovered a few days ago - KW2818 ...

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Leave it to monkeykat to wake up the dead. This topic is over three years old with my previous entry over two years ago. This reply is only to let you know I'm still alive but have been very inactive. Maybe one of these days I'll get going again. :blink:

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I was a member of the power squadron for a few years, took a few boating courses and felt they where a nice bunch of guys. Only small problem, I was into sail boats and most of them where power boaters...but nice guys never the less....! At the time, 70-80's , never new about benchmark hunting etc, so this theme never came up at any meetings. Currentley, in my area at least [ Connecticut shore ] they USPS, do no longer seem to check benchmarks. Interesting to read about this anyway...Looks like I have to take a closer look at the ones "THEY" posted as no finds.

Z

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They were looking at the ground and poking about at things that looked like steel covers for manholes, or other pipes. One of them had a tall staff with what looked like some electronics in a "T" at the top. A second was waving what looked like a really long geiger counter at the ground, and the third had a three ring binder and was looking around the parking lot.

You'll be pleased to know that these characters are now safely confined at Guantanamo. They will remain there indefinitely, unless they become uncooperative and some "extraordinary rendition" is necessary. You have my word on this.

 

Your veep,

Dick Cheney

Secure Undisclosed Location, USA

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I still have a crappy part-time (now a second) job making plaques and other USPS trinkets. I've asked a few of my regular customers about benchmarking. Most know about using them to practice navigation/orienteering/looking at a map-chart exercises. A couple have looked at the geocaching benchmark site and were amused or think I'm more of a lunatic than they previously did. I MIGHT (might) have 1 convert! A early retiree, he thinks it might be a cool reason to putter around in his dinghy when he cruises the Intra Coastal Waterway. I haven't looked into it, but I'd imagine the "Ditch" has a slew of them around. (Hmmmm... sounds like a good topic to post)

 

Still, most of the members I meet in person can't climb the stairs to the workshop and are out of breath just walking to the office, so I think a jaunt in the woods would be too much :D

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My DDS is big in the USCG aux and I talked to him about the USPS once. He is also fascinated with GPS, has several units and goes roaming on his ATV's with his other MD pals. Been to a few high points and found some BM's. He always talks about this when I am in there.

 

He mentioned nothing but doctors, lawyers and what not as those he knew as members. Jugding by the local marina, you have to be well heeled to own a boat nowadays. So it strikes me many won't get thier hands dirty.

Edited by Z15

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