Don't you just hate it...

[+ArtieD]

There is a cache in my area (GC24ZTY) that uses a VERY nice cammoed container and it along a very nice portion of a walking trail. It's noted as kid friendly, which I think it is because at GZ there are a couple easily avoided thorn bushes...the attribute for this is listed as well.

 

The main rub is that this new cacher apparently took their kid with them and got bit by the thorn bushes and posted a DNF, complaining. The complaint? It has a kid friendly attribute when there were some thorns nearby. Apparently the thought of not attempting the cache didn't cross their mind, either.

 

This person has claimed to have spoken to city officials who approved said cache to get rid of it unless the attributes are changed and possibly complaining to Groundspeak itself over the issue if it is not resolved to their satisfaction.

 

I know it's not my cache, but I know the CO and he places some quality stuff. I hate seeing some new person trying to screw things up over their own lack of common sense.

 

[knowschad]

Remember rule #1: "Don't Panic"

 

 

Seriously... that sounds like absurd behavior. Kids aren't supposed to get scratched up?!? Give me a break!! Kids are the primary ones that are supposed to get scratched and cut up and bruised! What sort of weenie is this guy (gal?) trying to raise?

 

What sort of response have the city officials shown to this complaint? Are they trying to remove the cache, or those evil thorns?

[Allison Wunderland]

It wasn't me!

 

Here's a good rule of thumb. You're the adult. It's your child. You're responsible for what your kid gets into.

 

"No, don't worry about the cougar on the porch! He's never actually eaten a child that I know about!" (But then I'm not from around here.)

[+silksmybaby]

I would suggest sending that message to the person complaining

[+ArtieD]

LOL...sometimes one need to remind oneself not to panic from time to time.

 

No clue what, if anything, has transpired. The email they sent to me (assuming I was the CO) promised to try to get rid of the cache via local parks and rec up to GC.com itself unless it's attributed to their liking...reflecting that finding said cache can have a "high potential for personal injury" (direct quote) to the cacher.

 

Common sense ain't so common these days...

[+d+n.s]

Man, thats awful. I would probably just change the attribute if I was the CO. As a non-CO I would probably just gripe in the forums and hope they read it and realize they are being insane.

 

that said, I don't think their newness is the issue here.

Edited June 4, 2010 by d+n.shults

[jholly]

Okay, let me get this straight. There is a thorn bush along the trail you walk on to get to the cache. This [finder description deleted] was afraid his/her kids might get hurt on this bush. All because they were looking for a cache. Ah, what would they do if they were just walking down the path not looking for a cache and came across this same bush?

 

I guess they better never look for any of my caches, besides blackberry bushes, salmon berries and stinging nettles they might, if they are lucky, meet a coyote, bear or a cougar.

[+BulldogBlitz]

why did you push the kid into the bush? i didn't understand that part.

[4wheelin_fool]

There is a cache in my area (GC24ZTY) that uses a VERY nice cammoed container and it along a very nice portion of a walking trail. It's noted as kid friendly, which I think it is because at GZ there are a couple easily avoided thorn bushes...the attribute for this is listed as well.

 

The main rub is that this new cacher apparently took their kid with them and got bit by the thorn bushes and posted a DNF, complaining. The complaint? It has a kid friendly attribute when there were some thorns nearby. Apparently the thought of not attempting the cache didn't cross their mind, either.

 

This person has claimed to have spoken to city officials who approved said cache to get rid of it unless the attributes are changed and possibly complaining to Groundspeak itself over the issue if it is not resolved to their satisfaction.

 

I know it's not my cache, but I know the CO and he places some quality stuff. I hate seeing some new person trying to screw things up over their own lack of common sense.

 

 

Sometimes the best thing to do is.... nothing.

 

They are new so cut them some slack, and take the message with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila.

[nitro71]

I'd tell the guy his kid is going to be a sissy if he's always protecting him from thorn bushes.

[+Gimpy13]

Self righteous, overly protective, hyperventilating, parents that don't have the good sense God gave shag carpet have gone a long way toward screwing up this country in general - why shouldn't they screw up caching while they're at it?

 

Gimpy13

 

p.s. I am currently pretty darned scratched up from caching this past Sunday. It was a great day! And I'm healing - it's obviously a miracle I survived that blackberry bush.

[jholly]

After thinking about a bit, yes do nothing. Once that wimpy kid runs into a thorn bush a couple times he will learn, maybe. Just remember, The Gene Pool needs chlorination.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

reflecting that finding said cache can have a "high potential for personal injury" (direct quote) to the cacher.

 

Of course it does. Every cache carries that potential. I could drive up to a Walmart LPC, open my car door, trip as I got out and face-plant myself into the blacktop. Obviously, if I wasn't going after that cache, I wouldn't have gotten hurt, so that cache should be archived. Just like if there is a thorny bush in the woods and I blunder right through it, it's the cache owners fault for not adding the thorny plant attribute to the listing and now my little Johnny has a scratch on his arm that may NEVER heal.

 

Often times I've wondered if the closest some of these people have gotten to the great outdoors is when they've mistakenly wandered into a Gander Mountain or Cabelas.

[lefthandforge]

Self righteous, overly protective, hyperventilating, parents that don't have the good sense God gave shag carpet (snip)

 

D@mnitt sombody owes me a keyboard and a cup of coffee!

[+DragonflyTotem]

I'd tell the guy his kid is going to be a sissy if he's always protecting him from thorn bushes.

 

Not disagreeing with your sentiment....but the cacher was according to the logs with his daughter.

[+DragonflyTotem]

Interesting that he complained about the thorns, but apparently thought nothing of the rest of the attributes -- such as the one indicating ticks. So if I'm understanding things correctly, he took his daughter to a place with that listed attribute but is complaining because she got scratched on some thorns?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Keep the kid friendly attribute. Add the "thorns" attribute.

Edited June 4, 2010 by NYPaddleCacher

[+CanUK_TeamFitz]

 

If the seeker was just griping then I'd probably ignore it. Since they are threatening to get the cache removed, I'd immediately thank them for bringing the nearby danger to my attention. I'd agree with their sentiment and add that I also was concerned.

 

I'd then remove the 'kids' attribute and replace with 'skull and crossbones' attribute and I'd be sure to paste the following large text on the cache page:

 

Update xx/06/10: This was originally attributed as a kid friendly cache, but thanks to the due dilligence of [problem cacher] they have pointed out the nearby thorn bushes are DANGEROUS for children. I have now added the 'danger' attribute to save valuable time and work for the park wardens and [problem cacher] in assessing the danger impact to children of the thorn bushes and/or removing this cache.

 

My thanks to [problem cacher] for highlighting the dangers thorn bushes represent to humans and providing a service to the gc community.

 

That way you're providing a double-entendred warning for other CO's and other cachers can read it how they wish.

Edited June 4, 2010 by _TeamFitz_

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

I think the CO should be honored!

 

This was the longest and most informative log that the cacher has posted!

 

Aside from that, everybody has an opinion... and we all know what opinions are like.

[+Stargazer22]

I guess no one reads and understands the disclaimer any more....

 

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Be prepared for your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution.

[+DadOf6Furrballs]

I guess no one reads and understands the disclaimer any more....

 

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Be prepared for your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution.

 

I was just ready to post that exact quote. Thanks.

[+Stargazer22]

I guess no one reads and understands the disclaimer any more....

 

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Be prepared for your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution.

 

I was just ready to post that exact quote. Thanks.

 

You're welcome!

 

I guess we should cut them a little slack though, being newbies. They haven't learned yet that geo-thorn bushes aren't like regular thorn bushes. They know geocachers are coming and lie in wait for the unsuspecting. They will let you approach the cache and get right into the middle of them before they jump up and hurl themselves on you, inflicting scores of thorn pricks. Those of you who haven't experienced this may scoff, but trust me, I've had it happen to me dozens of times!

[Dinoprophet]

My 8-year-old was plucking thorns from our rose bushes last night so they wouldn't poke her. I didn't stop her.

[+ArcherDragoon]

LOL...sometimes one need to remind oneself not to panic from time to time.

 

No clue what, if anything, has transpired. The email they sent to me (assuming I was the CO) promised to try to get rid of the cache via local parks and rec up to GC.com itself unless it's attributed to their liking...reflecting that finding said cache can have a "high potential for personal injury" (direct quote) to the cacher.

 

Common sense ain't so common these days...

 

"High potential for Personal Injury"

 

So does licking frozen metal poles, put I don't need people telling me that or having a warning sign posted on all metal poles in the world!!!

[+Team Cotati]

I would suggest that you not worry over it.

 

Volunteer at the local food bank perhaps.

[Andronicus]

There is a cache in my area (GC24ZTY) that uses a VERY nice ...

...own lack of common sense.

 

Since it is not your cache, it would be easy to send a friendly and non-confrontational e-mail back informing the problem cacher that you are not the owner, copy the disclaimer Stargazer22 posted, and remind them that the great outdoors are full of hazzards, and thorns are unlikely to result in serious injury.

[+bittsen]

Not disagreeing with your sentiment....but the cacher was according to the logs with his daughter.

 

Just a theory but this is what I think is happening here.

 

Dad goes geocaching but mom is a muggle.

Dad says he's taking daughter caching

Mom says "No way! It's dangerous"

Dad says he will only take her to kid friendly caches.

Mom and dad argue for a half hour and dad assures mom that caching where it says "kid friendly" is 100% safe.

Mom finally relents with a scowl and a firm warning that if anything happens, it's his head on a platter.

Dad and daughter go caching and daughter gets scratched.

Mom does full body inspection on daughter to make sure she's OK and sees scratch.

Dad assumes defensive stance as pots and pans are hurling at him.

Dad argues that it's not his fault and tries to explain as a cast iron frying pan connects with his skull.

With blood streaming down his face he swears that "kid friendly" is supposed to mean the cache experience should have been safer than a teddy bear.

Dad begs mom to stop hitting him as he starts to collapse in the corner

Mom finally gets tired and begins to listen as dad promises it wasn't his fault and that he will stop at nothing to make sure this never happens to another kid.

Mom reluctantly relents but tells dad that there will be no more communal nighttime togetherness until the cache is archived or the attribute is removed.

 

And then we end up here.

[+BulldogBlitz]

Not disagreeing with your sentiment....but the cacher was according to the logs with his daughter.

 

Just a theory but this is what I think is happening here.

 

Dad goes geocaching but mom is a muggle.

Dad says he's taking daughter caching

Mom says "No way! It's dangerous"

Dad says he will only take her to kid friendly caches.

Mom and dad argue for a half hour and dad assures mom that caching where it says "kid friendly" is 100% safe.

Mom finally relents with a scowl and a firm warning that if anything happens, it's his head on a platter.

Dad and daughter go caching and daughter gets scratched.

Mom does full body inspection on daughter to make sure she's OK and sees scratch.

Dad assumes defensive stance as pots and pans are hurling at him.

Dad argues that it's not his fault and tries to explain as a cast iron frying pan connects with his skull.

With blood streaming down his face he swears that "kid friendly" is supposed to mean the cache experience should have been safer than a teddy bear.

Dad begs mom to stop hitting him as he starts to collapse in the corner

Mom finally gets tired and begins to listen as dad promises it wasn't his fault and that he will stop at nothing to make sure this never happens to another kid.

Mom reluctantly relents but tells dad that there will be no more communal nighttime togetherness until the cache is archived or the attribute is removed.

 

And then we end up here.

 

forgot to add the part about the dog getting out of the trailer (again) causing more stress...

 

not to mention when the tv crew from COPS arrived

[Andronicus]

Here is a recent log from when I took y 2 and 4 year old out caching

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...44-68228c699ca8

Very nice walk. Kids were sceptical when we hit the thorns, but they toughed it out.

 

 

These are the type of logs you expect when there is a bit of thorns, not "Im calling the cops on you"

[+Alfiegeorge]

If I'm out caching with the kids, they are there for the purpose of going into the stingers and thorns ... I wouldn't want to get myself all scratched up !

 

Seriously, geocaching is a community, like all communities it has its fair share of nutcases and fruitcakes, parents who take no responsibility for their kids or their own actions, people with no common sense, people who think that the lights have gone out when they blink etc., etc., ... you get the picture. This just leaves a sensible few to post on forums.

 

Everyone should just chill a little. No one died, no one is going to get sued - copy over the disclaimers (previous suggestion - good idea), forget about it.

 

P.S. actually, if you want to be a bit cheeky, paste the phrase "Disclaimer for the terminally lacking in common sense" onto the top of the disclaimer.

[+atmospherium]

I only just hate it when grizzled "veterans" of a game that's only ten years old heap scorn and ridicule on newcomers who aren't members of the "in" crowd.

[knowschad]

I only just hate it when grizzled "veterans" of a game that's only ten years old heap scorn and ridicule on newcomers who aren't members of the "in" crowd.

You didn't really read the thread, did you? I can see a reply like that from somebody that only read the thread's subject and decided to post based on that scant information, but there is a little more to it than that.

[+tozainamboku]

I only just hate it when grizzled "veterans" of a game that's only ten years old heap scorn and ridicule on newcomers who aren't members of the "in" crowd.

If you want to discuss that topic, try this recent thread.

[+geodarts]

My daughter would not let a few thorns slow her down. I almost felt guilty when we bushwhacked up a steep hill until the deer trail ran out, dived under and waded through sage and manzanita, around and in poison oak, scrambled up some rocks, bushwacked some more as above, until we reached the trail we should have taken in the first place. But she said it was a fun adventure. Still, my cache log advised people against taking that particular route and I would not say it was particularly kid friendly.

 

The thread raises the question of what people consider "kid-friendly" to mean. I have always defined it as a fairly easy to find larger cacher that was originally filled with trade items, or one that would take you to places where kids like to go. The kind of cache my daughter like to find when she first introduced me to caching (after finding a container on a school outing). That is fairly subjective and a five year old, a ten year old, or a fifteen year old might all be kids, but would have different definitions of what might be friendly to them. So as a parent, I always rely on common sense about what my daughter might enjoy and the kind of place that I could take her caching.

 

With that in mind, accusing a cache of not being kid friendly because there are thorns nearby is a little like the woman who just sued google because the walking directions on the mapping app took her down a road that had no sidewalks and she got hurt. Sometimes you have to ignore the icon and take responsibility. The "icon made me do it" excuse is going too far -- although could be a novel defense for one of my clients.

 

And if it was the right time of the year, and the cache was not right in the thorns, and the thorns contained blackberries, it would be very kid friendly indeed.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Erickson

[drewmm]

LOL...sometimes one need to remind oneself not to panic from time to time.

 

No clue what, if anything, has transpired. The email they sent to me (assuming I was the CO) promised to try to get rid of the cache via local parks and rec up to GC.com itself unless it's attributed to their liking...reflecting that finding said cache can have a "high potential for personal injury" (direct quote) to the cacher.

 

Common sense ain't so common these days...

 

"High potential for Personal Injury"

 

So does licking frozen metal poles, put I don't need people telling me that or having a warning sign posted on all metal poles in the world!!!

 

The solution is clearly banning all freezing temperatures.

 

Not disagreeing with your sentiment....but the cacher was according to the logs with his daughter.

 

Just a theory but this is what I think is happening here.

 

Dad goes geocaching but mom is a muggle.

Dad says he's taking daughter caching

Mom says "No way! It's dangerous"

Dad says he will only take her to kid friendly caches.

Mom and dad argue for a half hour and dad assures mom that caching where it says "kid friendly" is 100% safe.

Mom finally relents with a scowl and a firm warning that if anything happens, it's his head on a platter.

Dad and daughter go caching and daughter gets scratched.

Mom does full body inspection on daughter to make sure she's OK and sees scratch.

Dad assumes defensive stance as pots and pans are hurling at him.

Dad argues that it's not his fault and tries to explain as a cast iron frying pan connects with his skull.

With blood streaming down his face he swears that "kid friendly" is supposed to mean the cache experience should have been safer than a teddy bear.

Dad begs mom to stop hitting him as he starts to collapse in the corner

Mom finally gets tired and begins to listen as dad promises it wasn't his fault and that he will stop at nothing to make sure this never happens to another kid.

Mom reluctantly relents but tells dad that there will be no more communal nighttime togetherness until the cache is archived or the attribute is removed.

 

And then we end up here.

 

[+uxorious]

The neighborhood I grew up in had several acres of blackberry brambles. All of us kids in the area would spend large parts of the summer chopping paths through them. We made forts in them and picked the berries when they were ripe.

 

I doubt if there were many days we didn't have a scratch or two from them. But I don't remember any neighbor kid suffering any serious effects from them, nor do I remember any mother really worried about it.

 

Sounds like someone needs to toughen up just a little.

[+Juan Durrer]

Two full days of geocaching experience and this guy's an expert on all things geocaching.

 

I read his other logs. Didn't even bring a pen with him. Someone ought to tell that CO to delete his find

 

Probably drives a putty colored Volvo wagon and loiters at Starbuck's checking stock prices on his iPhone while waiting for his no-fat soy double shot machiatto, and making them do it over because the foam isn't right.

[+zoltig]

Oh yes. I have had an issue with a newbie complaint.

Including a NA attribute with this log:

June xx, 2003 by <removed>

 

A lot of water everywhere. I came 6 inches from stepping on a very large snake and when I backed out slowly the snake hissed and struck out but hit some branches. Did not see how long for sure this was but by the size of the body I would estimate that it was about 6 foot long at least. This cache should be archived for safety sake.

 

Followed by this log:

June xx, 2003 by <removed>

 

What a mess. Weeds/grass/brush is about 4 feet tall and the trail is perhaps 10 inches wide. Mud and water in many areas. Well, let me edit what I wrote before. Its definitely soggy. I wouldnt recommend it with kids (ie under 13 or so anyway). Be prepared to get wet feet, mud, and scraped up on branches and other plants.

 

Followed by my maintainance note:

June xx, 2003 by zoltig (948 found)

 

I checked on the cache today and I believe it should stay active. Some water but easy to cross.

Cache had a small amount of water in it, but I believe it is from the lid not being shut tight. I will replace the ammo can, soon.

The Golden Gate TB is still there but I placed it in the zip lock bag that has the log book. Took out a single gardening glove (come on?!?!).

No sign of snakes but I do not have any doubt they could be there. I took a long stick to push aside the tall grass when necessary.

<snip>

I will not Archive or Temporarily Disable this cache. I believe it is a good challenge for cachers. I do regular maintainance of this cache at 4-6 week intervals. Sometimes I log at the cache and sometimes on this site or both or neither.

The ground is well soaked from the recent rains (downpours) and the lakes are full. I crossed all the water that came off the lake into the shallow gullies with no problem. At times, these can have more water (I have seen them bone dry also).

 

This was a very good cache, even if I do say so myself. That was the only NA ever issued on the cache. Note my signature line. "If you wanna cache with the BIG DOGS..."

[drewmm]

<snip>

 

Followed by this log:

June xx, 2003 by <removed>

 

What a mess. Weeds/grass/brush is about 4 feet tall and the trail is perhaps 10 inches wide. Mud and water in many areas. Well, let me edit what I wrote before. Its definitely soggy. I wouldnt recommend it with kids (ie under 13 or so anyway). Be prepared to get wet feet, mud, and scraped up on branches and other plants.

 

<snip>

 

I don't see anything wrong with this specific log. They talked about their experience and were warning others about it. They didn't say that it should be archived because you might get "wet feet, mud, and scraped up on branches and other plants." And they didn't say that it should be archived because it's unsafe for children. They just said that kids might not enjoy it, and that cachers should be prepared for certain challenges on the trail.

[+ThePetersTrio]

While I agree that so-called newbie mistakes can be annoying, the flip side of that situation is that it presents an opportunity for some well-seasoned cachers to take the lead and help the newbies get up to speed on the ins and outs of the game.

 

When I was a newbie, I grabbed a geocoin before the holder could log the drop. That very well-seasoned cacher could have read me the riot act and soured me on the game entirely. Instead, she very patiently and very kindly explained the protocol and I am forever grateful to her for being such a great representative of our local caching community.

 

The learning curve is pretty steep in this game. I think people who are new to it could be cut just a little bit of slack here.

 

My 2 cents FWIW.

Edited June 4, 2010 by ThePetersTrio

[+dorqie]

to straight up answer your question..

No, I don't mind newbie cachers contributing to the community in ways we have not seen before

I DO HATE people who expect the rest of the world to be held responsible for their actions.

[+ohmerfam]

Another reason why i hate people

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

My kids and I love pushing through the thorn bushes to find the caches. They invented long pants for a reason, y'all.

[+zoltig]

<snip>

 

Followed by this log:

June xx, 2003 by <removed>

 

What a mess. Weeds/grass/brush is about 4 feet tall and the trail is perhaps 10 inches wide. Mud and water in many areas. Well, let me edit what I wrote before. Its definitely soggy. I wouldnt recommend it with kids (ie under 13 or so anyway). Be prepared to get wet feet, mud, and scraped up on branches and other plants.

 

<snip>

 

I don't see anything wrong with this specific log. They talked about their experience and were warning others about it. They didn't say that it should be archived because you might get "wet feet, mud, and scraped up on branches and other plants." And they didn't say that it should be archived because it's unsafe for children. They just said that kids might not enjoy it, and that cachers should be prepared for certain challenges on the trail.

Nothing wrong with that log...what's more is, I like it. I put it up there for comparison to the archived log to show sequence. Sorry for the confusion about that. The log dates were just a day or two apart.

Here is some sample pictures from that cache.

 

[+Harry Dolphin]

Read similar thread on a cache with a drop off below it.

It used to be that you took your chances. Now, everyone must be protected from any possible harm.

A sign went up recently in one of my favorite parks. (Okay. Not my favorite park, but it has the nearest restroom after you get off the subway...) Sign reads: "Metal surfaces may become hot in the sun." Guess someone complained about the sun!

Myself, I did found five caches today. I have four scratches, picked off six ticks, and have what feels like a mild case of poison ivy. I had a great day!

[+scrapes]

I ripped a coat on a thorn, can we add an attribute of a thorn symbol with a coat hanging on it. I'll be contacting the CO for reimbursement, seems justified, according to the new laws of whining.

[+wgeo]

I don't think it's so much a issue of being a newbie it's an issue of "entitlement". And people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves tend not to last in an activity like geocaching - so these kind of responses usually end up being by newbies.

 

I just found my 75 cache today - still a newbie in my opinion - the other night I went out with my 4 and 6 year old children and got turned around on where I thought a cache was - the area looked a little hairy so I went by myself and ended up being tortured by stinging nettles! My fault, but my responsibility kept my children ok, and and the next morning --- I was out looking for the cache again.

 

I do think newbie's could be given a little more latitude - but hey geocaching "communication" is often an internet only thing - and we all know that it takes more work to communicate well via the internet.

[+Snoogans]

I don't think it's so much a issue of being a newbie it's an issue of "entitlement". And people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves tend not to last in an activity like geocaching - so these kind of responses usually end up being by newbies.

You & I are on the same page.

 

This sport can ONLY exist by the good graces of the next voluntary hider who wants to participate by hiding a cache. Tick enough of them off and ya got no fun activity called geocaching.

 

That's why I adopted the gift horse as my avatar.

 

This website is just a listing service and the best in the business. Geocaching is us. As in we that hide the caches and promote it by hosting events.