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A new era has begun

Matthew386DX
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SSO JOAT

+SSO JOAT

Posted
Posted

WOW! This new system is going to increase the accuracy from ~20 feet to ~3 feet. That's flippin' amazing. And it should solve any problems with locating micro caches, too. ;)

 

I remember when it was so cool to be able to navigate back to within 300 feet of a favorite spot using my brand new Garmin GPS 40 and a bread-crumb trail. Now you can find a tan blinkie in the desert with a free* cell phone.

 

(*contract and service agreement required)

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billinan

+billinan

Posted
Posted

They launched that when?? I can see most things launched from the Cape from my backyard, especially the night launches. Guess I need to find a site with an unmanned object launch schedule since it seems that our fearless leader is putting the kabosh on manned space flight.

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Grasscatcher

Grasscatcher

Posted
Posted

They launched that when?? I can see most things launched from the Cape from my backyard, especially the night launches. Guess I need to find a site with an unmanned object launch schedule since it seems that our fearless leader is putting the kabosh on manned space flight.

 

YOUR "fearless leader" NOT Mine......

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yogazoo

yogazoo

Posted
Posted

It sounds like full compatibility with existing GPSr's! ;)

 

"(U) The Block IIF Program incorporates current and leading edge technology to sustain the GPS utility for military and commercial use. The IIF contract allows the Air Force to purchase 33 satellites. The Block IIF system allows affordable technology insertion and block upgrades, while emphasizing compatibility and interoperability with the current space vehicles, ground control system, and user equipment."

 

Quoted from: http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/ns...tives/gps2f.htm

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Tahoe Skier5000

+Tahoe Skier5000

Posted
Posted

It sounds like full compatibility with existing GPSr's! :)

 

"(U) The Block IIF Program incorporates current and leading edge technology to sustain the GPS utility for military and commercial use. The IIF contract allows the Air Force to purchase 33 satellites. The Block IIF system allows affordable technology insertion and block upgrades, while emphasizing compatibility and interoperability with the current space vehicles, ground control system, and user equipment."

 

Quoted from: http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/ns...tives/gps2f.htm

 

Exactly. The L1 C/A band will still be functional on the new sats, and will be for many years to come given the high reliance on it by civilian aircraft and ships all over the world.

 

The new sats will offer the L2C band, however its use by civilians will be optional. The new band needs to be used in conjunction with the L1 C/A band by the GPSr. Using just the L2C band alone would result in even worse accuracy than we currently have using just L1 C/A.

 

I have a feeling that Garmin will try and milk the L2C for all its worth and make us buy new GPSr's in order to read the new signals. ;)

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Xantos10

+Xantos10

Posted
Posted

They launched that when?? I can see most things launched from the Cape from my backyard, especially the night launches. Guess I need to find a site with an unmanned object launch schedule since it seems that our fearless leader is putting the kabosh on manned space flight.

 

YOUR "fearless leader" NOT Mine......

 

 

I also want to go on record and let everyone know he is NOT my "Fearless Leader" either!!!!! I for one DON'T beleive everything people tell me ....Especially Politicians!!!! But it has nothing to do with Geocaching and as long as he doesn't put taxes on placing a cache, I will be fine!!!!

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sviking

sviking

Posted
Posted
But it has nothing to do with Geocaching and as long as he doesn't put taxes on placing a cache, I will be fine!!!!

 

Fine. He'll just tax everything else (as he already plans to do) and make the price of living life so goddamned expensive that we won't even be able to afford to put gas in our cars, along with a great many other things. He definitely CAN affect peoples' ability to cache through many avenues, if not directly...

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Entropy512

+Entropy512

Posted
Posted

I am wondering if we will need new chip sets to read these satellites.

To receive the "legacy" signals, no. But you will not see the accuracy improvements offered by the addition of the L2C signal without a new chipset.

 

The reason for the second frequency is because one of the primary contributors to GPS error (ionospheric delay) is frequency dependent. If you can compare the arrival times of signals transmitted at the same time on two frequencies, you can determine what the total delay was. So using L2C in addition to the existing L1 C/A signal allows for removal of ionospheric error.

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Xantos10

+Xantos10

Posted
Posted

Moderator should show up in 3, 2, 1...

 

And he should show up why???? I thought the thread was pretty interesting. Not saying that you don't agree with the direction of the thread but legislation could affect our hobby and the Leader of our Country seems to like to do as much as he can to change the country we live. So this thread is relevant.

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sviking

sviking

Posted
Posted

Wait until they try to put a "tax" on using the signals and having to pay some sort of a subscription fee like satellite radio. Then NONE of our current receivers would work at all. I can see it coming...it's only a matter of time and I'm surprised it hasn't been implemented a long time ago. Just too many users, both consumer and commercial, here and abroad, to let all that money just slip through fed.gov's fingers...

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yogazoo

yogazoo

Posted
Posted (edited)

Moderator should show up in 3, 2, 1...

 

And he should show up why????

 

Because as an unwritten rule there are two things you should never bring up at family gatherings, religion and politics. Why? Because people often take offense and the discussion usually devolves into an argument.

 

Although there are no explicit rules in the forum guidlines barring the discussion of these topics, I believe some discretion should be considered. There are people who read these forums from all flavors of every philosophy across the political and religious spectrum. If you want to rant politically there are sites for that purpose. So please, at least on Groundspeak Forums, keep your political comments to yourself.

Edited by yogazoo
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Egnix

+Egnix

Posted
Posted

will the current GPSr units in most people's cars, planes, boats, and hands be able to take advantage of the new satellite technology or will we have to buy new GPSr units to get the ~3' accuracy?

 

No, the current receivers won't be able to receive the new L2C channel.

 

I'm not even sure if L2C is being used yet as IIF-1 will only be the 9th satellite to have it (and one of the 9 (IIR-20) still isn't available for our use yet).

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Egnix

+Egnix

Posted
Posted

Wait until they try to put a "tax" on using the signals and having to pay some sort of a subscription fee like satellite radio. Then NONE of our current receivers would work at all. I can see it coming...it's only a matter of time and I'm surprised it hasn't been implemented a long time ago. Just too many users, both consumer and commercial, here and abroad, to let all that money just slip through fed.gov's fingers...

 

I don't see how that would be technically possible. Adding some kind of subscription scheme would require a major interface change. The IIA satellites aren't reprogrammable like the IIR and IIFs are, so you're not going to see an interface change while there are still operational IIAs. Even then, I don't this kind of change happening. IIRC, Europe's Galileo GPS system was going to be subscription based but then they scrapped the idea.

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majormajor42

majormajor42

Posted
Posted

will the current GPSr units in most people's cars, planes, boats, ....

 

No, the current receivers won't be able to receive the new L2C channel.

 

...

 

on second thought, maybe only the US military will be able to take advantage of the accuracy in the near term. If it gives us a tactical advantage, I'm all for it.

 

I wonder in what way the bad guys have been using GPS technology to fight US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. And would restricting them (and the rest of us) from the 3' accuracy give the US troops any advantage? I imagine that some of this was discussed (not here obviously) ten years ago when the old restrictions were lifted for everyone and geocaching was born.

 

maybe this thread is getting back on topic after all...

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Egnix

+Egnix

Posted
Posted
on second thought, maybe only the US military will be able to take advantage of the accuracy in the near term. If it gives us a tactical advantage, I'm all for it.

 

The military already has their own separate signals which are better than the civilian signals.

 

I wonder in what way the bad guys have been using GPS technology to fight US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. And would restricting them (and the rest of us) from the 3' accuracy give the US troops any advantage? I imagine that some of this was discussed (not here obviously) ten years ago when the old restrictions were lifted for everyone and geocaching was born.

 

Yes, there are methods to give the US troops an advantage, but obviously they can't be discussed. :laughing:

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yogazoo

yogazoo

Posted
Posted

Of all the forums I visit, this is the last one in which I expected to see douchey political trolling.

 

 

Not me!! Some people insist on using any public forum to spread the stuff that they believe stongly in.

 

Final note on this...

 

I'm not suprised to see political rants here. What I am suprised by is that no moderator has at least given a warning or chimed in at all regarding the inapropriate nature of those types of posts.

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sviking

sviking

Posted
Posted

Because as an unwritten rule there are two things you should never bring up at family gatherings, religion and politics. Why? Because people often take offense and the discussion usually devolves into an argument.

 

Although there are no explicit rules in the forum guidlines barring the discussion of these topics

 

Then who died and made YOU lord of the dance? :laughing:

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sviking

sviking

Posted
Posted

 

I wonder in what way the bad guys have been using GPS technology to fight US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. And would restricting them (and the rest of us) from the 3' accuracy give the US troops any advantage?

 

I highly doubt going from 30 feet or so to 3 feet (MAX) accuracy is going to help the Jawas very much over there...

 

Sure, it might put them right at the Sbarro's counter (hold the pork toppings) instead of just in the food court...if that's an "advantage" at the local Tattooine mall. :laughing:

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Entropy512

+Entropy512

Posted
Posted
on second thought, maybe only the US military will be able to take advantage of the accuracy in the near term. If it gives us a tactical advantage, I'm all for it.

 

The military already has their own separate signals which are better than the civilian signals.

 

Most of the improvements we're seeing are effectively giving civilians access to signals that contain some of the features the military has had since the beginning (such as dual-frequency reception).

 

As to taxing GPS - the system would need some major changes to make it taxable, and if there were an attempt to charge fees for it, Galileo would regain momentum. (Probably the number 1 driving reason for killing off SA was to reduce Galileo's momentum. Attempting to charge for GPS would refuel the Galileo efforts.)

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user13371

+user13371

Posted
Posted
...Probably the number 1 driving reason for killing off SA was to reduce Galileo's momentum. ...
Huh?

 

The DoD started planning to turn off SA as early as 1996; the executive order to turn it off permanently was issued in 2000. At that time, Galileo was barely a rough set of competing concepts; and the first stage to wasn't agreed upon by the EU until 2003 - and if it ever had ANY momentum it's hard to tell :laughing:

 

Source:

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/FGCS/info/sans_SA/.../statement.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_%28sa...tion%29#History

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sviking

sviking

Posted
Posted (edited)

I always knew a vocal and sadly large percentage of geocachers were good ole' boy rednecks...but moronic, knuckle-dragging Teabaggers, too?

 

Ugh, this thread scares me and again forces me to question my association with a hobby so populated with a-rate nutjobs.

 

So, "good ole boys" and "rednecks" are SAD to you? And all Tea Party members must be toothless "got a purty mouth" Deliverance wanna bees? Well, aren't you being quite the elitist CA prick. B)

 

So, right back at ya, LIBTARD...since YOU already started with the name calling. :laughing:

 

Hope you don't like shooting as a "hobby". :laughing:

Edited by sviking
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bigbad401

bigbad401

Posted
Posted

I always knew a vocal and sadly large percentage of geocachers were good ole' boy rednecks...but moronic, knuckle-dragging Teabaggers, too?

 

Ugh, this thread scares me and again forces me to question my association with a hobby so populated with a-rate nutjobs.

 

It is one thing to voice opinions about the government, but another to call people of a forum what you did because you don't take the same stance. Who is more wrong? Perhaps you, CLF?

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robertlipe

robertlipe

Posted
Posted

Slow on the uptake, but the moderator showed up as predicted. (Always feel free to use "report this post" if you see a problem instead of popcorn smileys.)

 

This forum is for GPS and Technology. Despite the sparring above, staying on topic actually IS in the guidelines of the forum. As the on-topic content of this thread is a dupe of the one cited earlier and the off-topic stuff is better suited to, say, "off-topic", I'm going to total this thread.

 

Please remember this group's charter. Don't open new threads with simlar content or derail others in this group with political jabbing.

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