so with smartphones premium membership benefits may be obsolete

[+narcissa]

 

I am not aware of any memberships that have been terminated by Groundspeak for TOU violations due to this particular application. Perhaps a test case candidate might be identified.

 

I don't think anyone around here is going to miss this particular test candidate.

 

Only a troll or an extraordinarily stupid person steals Groundspeak's services with a third party application and then BRAGS about it in Groundspeak's heavily-moderate forum. Either way, I vote that Groundspeak pull the plug on this jerk.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Haha, I was just thinking about some things I've read here in tha past...It's actually pretty funny that while people who can play for free often question the value of paying, there are a good number of paid members who would be willing to pay twice as much for what they get.

[+Mr Kaswa]

Haha, I was just thinking about some things I've read here in tha past...It's actually pretty funny that while people who can play for free often question the value of paying, there are a good number of paid members who would be willing to pay twice as much for what they get.

 

Are these the same kind of folks who buy one and get the second free even when they did not need the first one?

[GOF and Bacall]

Haha, I was just thinking about some things I've read here in tha past...It's actually pretty funny that while people who can play for free often question the value of paying, there are a good number of paid members who would be willing to pay twice as much for what they get.

 

Are these the same kind of folks who buy one and get the second free even when they did not need the first one?

 

No. They are the people who realize what a great value they are getting for their $30.

[+Mr Kaswa]

Haha, I was just thinking about some things I've read here in tha past...It's actually pretty funny that while people who can play for free often question the value of paying, there are a good number of paid members who would be willing to pay twice as much for what they get.

 

Are these the same kind of folks who buy one and get the second free even when they did not need the first one?

 

No. They are the people who realize what a great value they are getting for their $30.

 

And if GS chooses to allow people to play (legally) for free/$10 and those people do not see the "great value" in the $30 because they get everything they need? Why should they pay? And again if you feel that you have to "support the site" perhaps we should be asking GS why they are giving it away for free/$10? How many of you watch and enjoy television? do you all donate $30 a year just to support it? No. Would you gladly pay your cable company twice for what you get? No. You pay the $30 PM because you get something out of it and if somebody else feels that the $30 is not worth it then it's time to get all high and mighty on them.

[+brslk]

I paid for a premium membership less than a month into registering here. I haven't even used PQs yet.

I may someday but I mostly use my iPhone to find them and my legend to hide them.

 

My premium membership expires around Christmas this year. Will I be broke then? probably.

Will I renew my PM? Without a doubt.

 

This is the cheapest entertainment I have ever used. The website is for the most part, excellent.

I like the forums and I like the usability for finding and listing caches.

 

I spend about $30 a day in gas for work.

 

I can't understand how someone feels OK with using a service and not paying for it when you are satisfied with it.

 

As for the OP... I think anyone that breaks the rules and then flaunts it on the very website who's rules he is breaking is...well.... Not the sharpest knife in the drawer and TPTB should do what they should do.

[+brslk]

Haha, I was just thinking about some things I've read here in tha past...It's actually pretty funny that while people who can play for free often question the value of paying, there are a good number of paid members who would be willing to pay twice as much for what they get.

 

Are these the same kind of folks who buy one and get the second free even when they did not need the first one?

 

No. They are the people who realize what a great value they are getting for their $30.

 

And if GS chooses to allow people to play (legally) for free/$10 and those people do not see the "great value" in the $30 because they get everything they need? Why should they pay? And again if you feel that you have to "support the site" perhaps we should be asking GS why they are giving it away for free/$10? How many of you watch and enjoy television? do you all donate $30 a year just to support it? No. Would you gladly pay your cable company twice for what you get? No. You pay the $30 PM because you get something out of it and if somebody else feels that the $30 is not worth it then it's time to get all high and mighty on them.

 

The television and this website comparison doesn't work. TV stations make their money from advertising. Do you have to watch 5 minutes of commercials for every 10 minutes of looking at this website? no.

 

Besides, I pay $150 a month to watch TV and still have to watch commercials.

[+niraD]

never teach a pig to sing,

it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

 

However in this case I'm not sure the pig is annoyed.

Perhaps a better analogy would be: "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw

[+bittsen]

I paid for a premium membership less than a month into registering here. I haven't even used PQs yet.

I may someday but I mostly use my iPhone to find them and my legend to hide them.

 

My premium membership expires around Christmas this year. Will I be broke then? probably.

Will I renew my PM? Without a doubt.

 

This is the cheapest entertainment I have ever used. The website is for the most part, excellent.

I like the forums and I like the usability for finding and listing caches.

 

I spend about $30 a day in gas for work.

 

I can't understand how someone feels OK with using a service and not paying for it when you are satisfied with it.

 

As for the OP... I think anyone that breaks the rules and then flaunts it on the very website who's rules he is breaking is...well.... Not the sharpest knife in the drawer and TPTB should do what they should do.

 

I've never paid a dime to watch a sunset or listen to the sound of the ocean waves crashing.

I didn't pay any money to watch a nuclear reactor cooling tower implode.

I didn't pay a dime to watch a solar eclipse. Nor did I pay to watch geese migrating.

I never paid any money to smell roses in bloom. I didn't pay any money to hear a childs laughter.

It cost me nothing to see a volcano erupt and it was completely free to explore a lava tube (or two).

 

All of those things were much more enjoyable than my best day geocaching.

[+silksmybaby]

I like having premium membership to get PQs for the gps and using my pre with the webos app to look up clues, descriptions, etc. I also like it to be updated on new caches

[+brslk]

I paid for a premium membership less than a month into registering here. I haven't even used PQs yet.

I may someday but I mostly use my iPhone to find them and my legend to hide them.

 

My premium membership expires around Christmas this year. Will I be broke then? probably.

Will I renew my PM? Without a doubt.

 

This is the cheapest entertainment I have ever used. The website is for the most part, excellent.

I like the forums and I like the usability for finding and listing caches.

 

I spend about $30 a day in gas for work.

 

I can't understand how someone feels OK with using a service and not paying for it when you are satisfied with it.

 

As for the OP... I think anyone that breaks the rules and then flaunts it on the very website who's rules he is breaking is...well.... Not the sharpest knife in the drawer and TPTB should do what they should do.

 

I've never paid a dime to watch a sunset or listen to the sound of the ocean waves crashing.

I didn't pay any money to watch a nuclear reactor cooling tower implode.

I didn't pay a dime to watch a solar eclipse. Nor did I pay to watch geese migrating.

I never paid any money to smell roses in bloom. I didn't pay any money to hear a childs laughter.

It cost me nothing to see a volcano erupt and it was completely free to explore a lava tube (or two).

 

All of those things were much more enjoyable than my best day geocaching.

 

I read what you are saying and understand but, did anyone lay money out of their pocket for you to watch a sunrise or any of the other things you mentioned? no.

 

I may have exaggerated by saying it was the cheapest form of entertainment... but... Nature doesn't count.

Lets not get too deep here.

[+bittsen]

I read what you are saying and understand but, did anyone lay money out of their pocket for you to watch a sunrise or any of the other things you mentioned? no.

 

I may have exaggerated by saying it was the cheapest form of entertainment... but... Nature doesn't count.

Lets not get too deep here.

Look at the top, right of the forum page. Notice that banner?

That's called "advertising" which, arguably, isn't any different than the commercials on TV.

[+brslk]

I read what you are saying and understand but, did anyone lay money out of their pocket for you to watch a sunrise or any of the other things you mentioned? no.

 

I may have exaggerated by saying it was the cheapest form of entertainment... but... Nature doesn't count.

Lets not get too deep here.

Look at the top, right of the forum page. Notice that banner?

That's called "advertising" which, arguably, isn't any different than the commercials on TV.

 

It's massively different than advertising on TV.

 

Is your viewing this website interrupted every ten minutes for five minutes before you can continue to view it?

 

Not even comparable. Besides. I don't know a single person who does not pay for cable and that costs at least $30 a month.

 

And, The people that don't pay for cable don't ask why they should.

[+bittsen]

It's massively different than advertising on TV.

 

Is your viewing this website interrupted every ten minutes for five minutes before you can continue to view it?

 

Not even comparable. Besides. I don't know a single person who does not pay for cable and that costs at least $30 a month.

 

And, The people that don't pay for cable don't ask why they should.

I guess thats where we are different. I know people who don't pay for cable. (and no, they don't steal cable either)

[+brslk]

It's massively different than advertising on TV.

 

Is your viewing this website interrupted every ten minutes for five minutes before you can continue to view it?

 

Not even comparable. Besides. I don't know a single person who does not pay for cable and that costs at least $30 a month.

 

And, The people that don't pay for cable don't ask why they should.

I guess thats where we are different. I know people who don't pay for cable. (and no, they don't steal cable either)

 

Where I live, if you don't pay for cable you get 3 channels and all of them fuzzy and bad.

[+Mr Kaswa]

I paid for a premium membership less than a month into registering here. I haven't even used PQs yet.

I may someday but I mostly use my iPhone to find them and my legend to hide them.

 

My premium membership expires around Christmas this year. Will I be broke then? probably.

Will I renew my PM? Without a doubt.

 

This is the cheapest entertainment I have ever used. The website is for the most part, excellent.

I like the forums and I like the usability for finding and listing caches.

 

I spend about $30 a day in gas for work.

 

I can't understand how someone feels OK with using a service and not paying for it when you are satisfied with it.

 

As for the OP... I think anyone that breaks the rules and then flaunts it on the very website who's rules he is breaking is...well.... Not the sharpest knife in the drawer and TPTB should do what they should do.

 

As for the OP I'm not defending using apps to get all the stuff for free on the smartfone, Only official app users and people who choose to remain basic members and use the site legally.

 

so you became a PM right away, so what? How does this matter?

 

I agree, if you can cache all day without spending huge amounts on food and gas and such then yes even at $30 a year it's quite cheap, so what?

 

the amount of money somebody spends on something else convinces me of nothing. I know and most would agree that $30 once a year is not _that_ much money, but the amount is not the issue, it's the value of what you get in comparison at $30 vs free/$10.

 

Again perhaps rather than complaining about people who use the site for cheap/$10 perhaps you should be asking yourself/GS why they are giving it away. My guess would be that for them it _is all about the numbers_ so they can sell more advertising and perhaps convince a few users to upgrade. Tho I am not sure if they planned for people only ever using the app? perhaps that will turn out to be an oops?

 

**Edited for typo.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Mr Kaswa

[+Mr Kaswa]

 

The television and this website comparison doesn't work. TV stations make their money from advertising. Do you have to watch 5 minutes of commercials for every 10 minutes of looking at this website? no.

 

Besides, I pay $150 a month to watch TV and still have to watch commercials.

 

Yes it's not the best, it sounded better when I was typing it :\ . But the point was that we are not donating to the site, we are _paying_ for the services of the premium memberships, and with the $10 app out there many folks are wondering why they should become premium members and in many cases the only answer people seem to have is, "so you are not a sponge" and since GC.com is giving it to them for $10 and they are playing legally then that kind of statement/attitude is wrong.

 

If GC.com sent an email to all the PMs asking for a donation I wonder how many of the people who say that it is worth twice what I pay would send in another $30?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

If GC.com sent an email to all the PMs asking for a donation I wonder how many of the people who say that it is worth twice what I pay would send in another $30?

I would. This site is worth $10/month to me.

[+Mr Kaswa]

If GC.com sent an email to all the PMs asking for a donation I wonder how many of the people who say that it is worth twice what I pay would send in another $30?

I would. This site is worth $10/month to me.

 

Well now I am curious to see if you get a bill for $90

[+brslk]

I donate about $50 a year to PBS... do I have to? no.

Will they stop showing programs I like if I do not donate? No.

Others will pick up the tab.

 

I don't want to be one of the "others"

 

Someone has to pay for it or it won't be there and I prefer to not to ride on other coat tails.

[+buttaskotch]

 

I am not aware of any memberships that have been terminated by Groundspeak for TOU violations due to this particular application. Perhaps a test case candidate might be identified.

 

I don't think anyone around here is going to miss this particular test candidate.

 

Only a troll or an extraordinarily stupid person steals Groundspeak's services with a third party application and then BRAGS about it in Groundspeak's heavily-moderate forum. Either way, I vote that Groundspeak pull the plug on this jerk.

+1

[ashnikes]

yeah yeah name calling and mud slinging back and forth all day long and nobody can answer my question, where exactly does my pm $30 a year go?

 

also,

so there are a hundred and one geocache apps and 99.99% of them are not legal according to the forums, so how many freeloaders are there who are hiding, and finding your caches? should we ban them too?

 

I was not bragging ftr, i was merely asking why,

 

as for being a troll...

arnt trolls those big hairy guys who live under bridges and eat goats?

 

i thought i was playing the game nicely,

finding, logging, hiding, meeting up with, discussing, and giving my hard earned money out in FTF dollar bills to the players, the people i will actually get to interact with, the people out there hiding, and finding along with me, not some random person in some office building someplace.

 

i cant believe you guys were voting to ban me over asking where my $30 bucks for a p.m. are going,

 

I love geocaching, im having a blast on my 2 weeks off from school hiding and finding, if i am pissing some people off because i am being vocal about some things that i feel need ot be discussed, get over it. make a real argument, rather than tell me to leave, or tell mods to give me the ban hammer.

 

Interestingly enough, I am more than willing to meet anyone off these forums, give out my phone number, and give you my physical address, im interested in everyones opinions thats why i posted mine, and come back to read, and comment on yours, unfortunately not everyone has valid arguments, they choose instead to try and scare me away or something liek that.

 

sorry to have offended, but suck it up, and get on with your life.

 

the one thing i do think pm'ers get non-pmers dont is the ftf notifications, only one person mentioned that, as far as i know its sort of an unspoken rule to leave a dollar in your cache when you first hide it, or something of real value, for the first person to find, so i left one in both of mine, (even though the second person to find my first cache took off with it) theres $2 i just donated to the game of geocaching, ive got $28 left, after I hide 30 caches, with a dollar in each, i should automatically get PM status, as i have donated $30 to the game.

Edited May 31, 2010 by ashnikes

[+Mr Kaswa]

I donate about $50 a year to PBS... do I have to? no.

Will they stop showing programs I like if I do not donate? No.

Others will pick up the tab.

 

I don't want to be one of the "others"

 

Someone has to pay for it or it won't be there and I prefer to not to ride on other coat tails.

 

PBS = none profit

 

Groundspeak = for profit

 

We all the donate by looking at the ads. After that it is a purchase for $30 worth of services that I want access to, not a donation. BMs see the ads , more even, (I do not know if there are ads on the iphone app for BM or not?) so they donate too, after that if they choose not to purchase the PM it is GC.coms fault for not enticing the BMs by either offering too much for free/$10 or for not offering enough for $30.

[+brslk]

yeah yeah name calling and mud slinging back and forth all day long and nobody can answer my question, where exactly does my pm $30 a year go?

 

also,

so there are a hundred and one geocache apps and 99.99% of them are not legal according to the forums, so how many freeloaders are there who are hiding, and finding your caches? should we ban them too?

 

I was not bragging ftr, i was merely asking why,

 

as for being a troll...

arnt trolls those big hairy guys who live under bridges and eat goats?

 

i thought i was playing the game nicely,

finding, logging, hiding, meeting up with, discussing, and giving my hard earned money out in FTF dollar bills to the players, the people i will actually get to interact with, the people out there hiding, and finding along with me, not some random person in some office building someplace.

 

i cant believe you guys were voting to ban me over asking where my $30 bucks for a p.m. are going,

 

I love geocaching, im having a blast on my 2 weeks off from school hiding and finding, if i am pissing some people off because i am being vocal about some things that i feel need ot be discussed, get over it. make a real argument, rather than tell me to leave, or tell mods to give me the ban hammer.

 

Interestingly enough, I am more than willing to meet anyone off these forums, give out my phone number, and give you my physical address, im interested in everyones opinions thats why i posted mine, and come back to read, and comment on yours, unfortunately not everyone has valid arguments, they choose instead to try and scare me away or something liek that.

 

sorry to have offended, but suck it up, and get on with your life.

 

the one thing i do think pm'ers get non-pmers dont is the ftf notifications, only one person mentioned that, as far as i know its sort of an unspoken rule to leave a dollar in your cache when you first hide it, or something of real value, for the first person to find, so i left one in both of mine, (even though the second person to find my first cache took off with it) theres $2 i just donated to the game of geocaching, ive got $28 left, after I hide 30 caches, with a dollar in each, i should automatically get PM status, as i have donated $30 to the game.

 

Wow.. you really are clueless and have no idea how to play nice.

My only fear is that once you have been rejected from the community you will become a cache maggot.

I am glad I live a long way away from you.

[ashnikes]

huh?

[+brslk]

huh?

 

Yes you have comprehension problems also.

[jholly]

yeah yeah name calling and mud slinging back and forth all day long and nobody can answer my question, where exactly does my pm $30 a year go?

 

blah, blah, blah

 

GS has something like 5 racks in a professional data center. Not cheap. Needed to keep a very busy worldwide site humming. It has 40 or so working at HQ. Not cheap. The office space is not cheap. These people are working on keeping the gears turning, fixing website bugs, improving the site and providing service to the members paid or not. By the way they get hundreds of emails a day that need to be answered.

 

You get a site that is 24/7, well, except for when the Fisher Center had that fire problem. PM is more than FTF notifications. You get PQ's that you can use to load you smartphone when your in the white part of the map. You get caches along a route so you can do a bit of planning if your going on a trip. Bookmarks, so you can keep track of things you might want to keep track of in the geocaching world. Access to and ability to hide premium member caches. The premium features have been growing and expanding over the years. I was around in 2002, this site is light years away from that.

 

Oh, yes, most use perfectly legal and approved applications, both on mobile devices and desktop/laptops.

Edited May 31, 2010 by jholly

[ashnikes]

see that wasnt so hard was it.

[+brslk]

Are you completely blind? you are not making any friends here. Maybe you don't want to.

Your posts are very adversarial and rude.

[+bittsen]

Your posts are very adversarial and rude.

 

So are most of yours.

 

[ashnikes]

Your posts are very adversarial and rude.

 

So are most of yours.

 

yeah! were evil post buddies! I love you!

[+thedeadpirate]

Are you completely blind? you are not making any friends here. Maybe you don't want to.

Your posts are very adversarial and rude.

 

That's kind of the point.

[+t4e]

 

a forum like this one for example can be hosted for about $40 a year, if not every two years, how do i know? Cause my buddy and I made one. same look and functions and everything,

 

a server is nothing more than a multitude of linked hard drives, im sure if we all got together we could store these caches on all of our personal computers, its not like they take up that much space, lets see some real numbers here.

 

the staff, 20 people, what do they do exactly? run the store? to make even more money on what another poster labeled as loyalty name branding so we all relate Groundspeak to geocaching, without the users, there would be no caches, without the caches there would be no need for this site, this argument is moot,

 

 

to a virtual third party for a site that is a virtual backup of your real geologs, that costs roughly 100 bucks a year to maintain, total,

 

 

you are so darn clueless and ridiculous, but trying to show off as being smart, that its actually funny

 

 

I love geocaching, im having a blast on my 2 weeks off from school hiding and finding, if i am pissing some people off because i am being vocal about some things that i feel need ot be discussed, get over it. make a real argument, rather than tell me to leave, or tell mods to give me the ban hammer.

 

 

this game has been around for 10 years and you just get into it and feel there's things that need to be discussed?

 

my advice to you is go find another hobby

 

/me goes and adds ashnikes to ignore list

Edited May 31, 2010 by t4e

[+StarBrand]

If you want to pay another $9.95 to $29.95 per month for the full data plan on your phone with a low precision GPS vs $30 per year for a PM - go right ahead. Then we will go caching out in the sandhills of Nebraska with zero cell coverage. Heck - why go that far you lose signal about 4 miles out of town.

[+Matthew386DX]

 

so besides giving money directly to the site and being able to post in the off topic section what real incentives are there anymore?

 

 

/thread

 

PS. Instant Email Push Notification of Caches published nearby. Makes for lightning quick FTF.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Matthew386x

[+tozainamboku]

The television and this website comparison doesn't work. TV stations make their money from advertising. Do you have to watch 5 minutes of commercials for every 10 minutes of looking at this website? no.

Basic members do see some adds that are not shown if you are a premium members.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Haha, I was just thinking about some things I've read here in tha past...It's actually pretty funny that while people who can play for free often question the value of paying, there are a good number of paid members who would be willing to pay twice as much for what they get.

 

Are these the same kind of folks who buy one and get the second free even when they did not need the first one?

 

No. They are the people who realize what a great value they are getting for their $30.

 

And if GS chooses to allow people to play (legally) for free/$10 and those people do not see the "great value" in the $30 because they get everything they need? Why should they pay? And again if you feel that you have to "support the site" perhaps we should be asking GS why they are giving it away for free/$10? How many of you watch and enjoy television? do you all donate $30 a year just to support it? No. Would you gladly pay your cable company twice for what you get? No. You pay the $30 PM because you get something out of it and if somebody else feels that the $30 is not worth it then it's time to get all high and mighty on them.

Actually, I listen to a LOT of public radio, and I donate many times the amount you're asking about. some years it has been $30 per month or more.

[+Chokecherry]

If you want to pay another $9.95 to $29.95 per month for the full data plan on your phone with a low precision GPS vs $30 per year for a PM - go right ahead. Then we will go caching out in the sandhills of Nebraska with zero cell coverage. Heck - why go that far you lose signal about 4 miles out of town.

 

I paid for the app on my phone to use in addition to my gps that i also use for other stuff. Instead of buying a more expensive gps I am able to use my existing tool in my phone for the paperless aspect if the sport. As I stated before there are many ways to support this business. I choose to buy the app and tangible items from the store to support their business. Reading this makes me regret even doing that as it seems many believe you're not giving enough money if you don't throw into the website membership alone.

[+Mr Kaswa]

 

Actually, I listen to a LOT of public radio, and I donate many times the amount you're asking about. some years it has been $30 per month or more.

 

Being non profit PBS/NPR are not quite the same as TV in general, and yes my analogy stunk. And yes I donate to my PBS station. GC.com lets basic members pay for free so they must feel that having to look at more ads is enough of a donation, if GC.com is happy then why do so many premium members feel the need to look down on those who choose not to purchase something they don't want?

 

I do wonder tho if GC.com is having more people than they expected choose to remain basic members? Wasn't there some thread in here promising a shiny coin to someone for the best testimonial about how we use our premium memberships so that it could be used to help convince others? Perhaps the perks are no longer as premium as they used to be?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

...Reading this makes me regret even doing that as it seems many believe you're not giving enough money if you don't throw into the website membership alone.

Please remember that the opinions posted here are those of a very small percentage of all geocachers and do not represent the overall geocaching community or Groundspeak.

 

I do not think it is right to belittle cachers who choose to remain free members and while I do try to promote premium memberships it is only because I want this site to succeed and believe that it needs our financial support to do so.

 

I am guilty of stating my personal belief that folks who do not pay for the services they use are leeches riding on the backs of those willing to pay, but that is solely and entirely my point of view and obviously not one supported by Groundspeak. Stating that opinion may not be the right thing to do but it's how I feel.

 

Groundspeak has been clear from the very beginning that this game will remain free for and open to anyone, and their voice is really the only one that counts on this subject.

[+Chokecherry]

But there are various ways of giving financial support. Anyone who buy a trackable item that can be tracked on this site is supporting the business as you have to purchase the tracking number to use it. Anyone who have paid for the official phone app is supporting this business. Anyone who buys anything with their logo on it is supporting the business.

 

Premium membership is not the sole way that this business makes money and not the only way to support it. I'm glad people have money to spread around and donate in addition to whatever purchases they make. Not everyone is in that position. I was going to buy a bunch of travel bugs to use on a road trip this summer with my friend. We've been saving money for a few months to do that. He was going to buy the app for his phone as well but needed to wait until payday to do so. We're supporting the business as we are able and in the way that makes the most sense to us. I even considered a premium membership once the travel bugs were out of the way but after this thread I'm thinking long and hard about if I really want to do that.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Chokecherry

[+thedeadpirate]

I really don't believe there can be leechers in geocaching.

 

Jeremy (the head frog) has made it clear that basic geocaching will always be free. If the guy who makes a living running this site is ok with that, I am.

 

I think he realizes that we all benefit from having a large number of people participating. We benefit by having more hiders, people giving feedback on our caches, and larger community.

 

Groundspeak benefits by having bigger numbers to tout to advertisers.

 

As I see it, the topic isn't about "freeloaders" or "leechers". Rather it is about whether or not the emergence of smartphones renders premium membership obsolete.

 

If I believed the OP created the thread out of a genuine concern, I would give my reasons why smartphone users can still benefit from a premium membership. But I don't believe he is sincere and I refuse to feed him as he has already told me once that he wasn't serious when I offered to introduce him to a local geocaching group.

 

People putting other cachers down just because they do not pay for a premium membership not only gives the OP precisely what he was looking for, but they do the geocaching community as a whole a disservice.

[+mountainman38]

ashnikes is right, to a degree.

I have just taken up caching using a Nokia smartphone, Trimbles app will allow me to access premium members caches, also in fieldnotes I can click the 'found it' button, this will allow me to post a log once I get back to my computer, but cant edit or view once I submit the log....Unless I click the 'found it' button once more.

I've been using Trimble's app on my smartphone since I started caching. At first I didn't see a need to pay for a premium membership, until I logged a premium member only cache. I decided to pay for a membership, and I'm really glad I did.

 

I don't know what all the differences are between premium/regular memberships, but I LOVE the pocket queries! I use them all the time to find interesting caches, or unfound caches, or caches along a route, or caches of a particular rating, or puzzle caches, etc.

 

Since Groundspeak provides a service, I feel like the least I can do is pay a nominal amount to support them. This isn't a charity -- if you want to play, I feel that the responsible thing to do is to show appreciation by paying for a membership.

 

As for ashnikes comment about roads already being here/we should be walking more anyway --- get real. That's either an incredibly selfish comment, or pure trolling.

[+mountainman38]

....This may depend on what you use the PQ for. Many people simply use it to load the nearest 500 or 1000 caches into their GPSr. With a smartphone you essential have that. Assuming you have cell coverage you can query for the nearest caches. Even if it just returns just the 10 or 20 nearest instead of 1000 it doesn't matter. After you have move a little ways just query again.

 

As of now, there is no filtering on smartphone query other than the closest caches, AFIK. But it wouldn't take much to provide a capability to do more advanced queries. You would likely still need a premium membership to get the level of filtering that you can only get now with a PQ (such as caches along a route).

 

Many people do additional filtering and route planning using third party tools. This currently requires downloading a significant number of caches (sometimes referred to as an offline database). The official smartphone apps will limit the number of caches that can be stored offline. Unofficial apps may exist that allow users to build offline databases on their smartphone devices. I'm fairly certain that Groundspeak would consider these unofficial apps in violation of the TOUs and will do what they can to limit their use.

 

The My Finds PQ and other techniques using pocket queries are used by many premium members to maintain statistics on their finds (and sometimes on their hides). The smartphones won't have that capability for basic members.

 

The OP may find that for the caching he does, a smartphone app is sufficient. There will be plenty of geocachers - including those using smartphones - that will find the benefits of premium membership worth the $30/year.

Trimble's Geocache Navigator gives the ability to set the search radius for caches, the cache type, and how many caches to list. The version for my Samsung doesn't allow me to store cache listings, unfortunately, but the version for other phones does.

 

As for the post about smartphone accuracy -- my phone is quite accurate. Many times I've had it flickering between 0 and 3 feet from ground zero, and found myself sitting right on the cache. Other times it's been up to 50 feet off, but that may very well be due to the original coordinates being off.

 

The one thing I really don't like about my smartphone for caching is the signal update. Smartphone update best when moving, so if you're close to ground zero on a cache, and the satellite coverage isn't the best, you can be stuck at a certain reading, despite moving in a 75 or 100 foot circle. At times like this I'll dig out my ancient Garmin and plug in a waypoint, which usually gets me within 20 feet or so.

[+StarBrand]

If you want to pay another $9.95 to $29.95 per month for the full data plan on your phone with a low precision GPS vs $30 per year for a PM - go right ahead. Then we will go caching out in the sandhills of Nebraska with zero cell coverage. Heck - why go that far you lose signal about 4 miles out of town.

 

I paid for the app on my phone to use in addition to my gps that i also use for other stuff. Instead of buying a more expensive gps I am able to use my existing tool in my phone for the paperless aspect if the sport. As I stated before there are many ways to support this business. I choose to buy the app and tangible items from the store to support their business. Reading this makes me regret even doing that as it seems many believe you're not giving enough money if you don't throw into the website membership alone.

Where did I say I needed to give more money to the site??

 

Where did I say you or anybody had to be a PM??

I was just trying to say that $29.95 vs $2.50 to avoid a pm seems silly.

Especially when cells don't work everywhere.

[+geodarts]

I have a smartphone with the official app (and a nonofficial app). The smartphone has allowed me to do some caching on the fly, to find new caches or to do caching without my normal gpsr or outside a pq. It also provides easy access to the forums. But it could never replace my membership for the kind of caching I do. Caches along a route and pocket queries allow me to easily cache in areas where my cell phone has no coverage. The smartphone enhances my membership and makes the pqs even better (particularly the nonofficial app), rather than replace what I gain through the PM.

 

But I am glad that caching has become more accessible to others through smartphones and that Jeremy has kept his promise to make sure that people can use this site for free. It makes me feel even better about my membership.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Erickson

[drewmm]

I doubt there are actually many PMs who pay solely to "support the site." If that's your only goal, why get a membership? Why not just donate $30? And why is $30 the magic number if you want to support the site? Why not $20? Or $40?

 

Even if you don't use the PM features, you're still in it somewhat for the recognition. You not only want to support the site, you want everyone else to know it.

 

If there's anyone out there who's just donated money to Groundspeak, I'll stand corrected. But I doubt there will be many, especially among the self-righteous people in this thread.

 

P.S. I'm considering a PM but I'm waiting to see whether this becomes a long term hobby or just a passing interest.

[drewmm]

If you want to pay another $9.95 to $29.95 per month for the full data plan on your phone with a low precision GPS vs $30 per year for a PM - go right ahead. Then we will go caching out in the sandhills of Nebraska with zero cell coverage. Heck - why go that far you lose signal about 4 miles out of town.

 

I paid for the app on my phone to use in addition to my gps that i also use for other stuff. Instead of buying a more expensive gps I am able to use my existing tool in my phone for the paperless aspect if the sport. As I stated before there are many ways to support this business. I choose to buy the app and tangible items from the store to support their business. Reading this makes me regret even doing that as it seems many believe you're not giving enough money if you don't throw into the website membership alone.

Where did I say I needed to give more money to the site??

 

Where did I say you or anybody had to be a PM??

I was just trying to say that $29.95 vs $2.50 to avoid a pm seems silly.

Especially when cells don't work everywhere.

 

The reason why your argument makes no sense is that no one gets a smart phone in order to "avoid" getting a geocaching membership. In 99.9% of cases (yes, made up statistic) people already have a smart phone and it's an added benefit.

 

So the real comparison isn't $30 a year vs. $30 a month. It's $30 a year vs. $10 one time.

[+ace862]

yeah yeah name calling and mud slinging back and forth all day long and nobody can answer my question, where exactly does my pm $30 a year go?

 

This topic rears it's head in the forums every so often and it makes me wonder where the misguided sense of entitlement comes from? While geocaching is a game, it is to Groundspeak, a business. And businesses are there to make money. That's what they do. Do you go to a golf course and demand to know what they do with your green fees?

 

Groundspeak has offered, for sale, Premium Memberships for $30/year or $10/3months. And with that fee you get this GC.com Memberships. Many of us have paid for that Premium Membership and said, "That's a great value." Some have not. The upside is you can still play the game even if you don't want to pay. Try doing that on a golf course.

 

Yes, these days using smartphones you can do somethings to play for free and reduce the need for a Premium Membership. If that's what you want to do, so be it. However, and this is just my opinion, in a years time, I will still be here. You will not. I'd even be willing to wager a Premium Membership on it. Like I said, just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

 

Cheers!

[+Panther&Pine]

I would love to be able to buy a 'lifetime' membership or something along those lines.

But for now I'll use the premium membership. I like the PQs and such- and I couldn't use a smartphone if I had to- so GPSr it is for me.

 

I think a faulty assumption in the logic of the OP is the assumption that a majority of cachers own or want to own smart phones. I do not feel that is a valid assumption.