so with smartphones premium membership benefits may be obsolete

[ashnikes]

so with smartphones premium membership benefits may be obsolete...

 

the new free apps that allow smartphone users to access Groundspeak do a lot of the work premium members have been feeding their personal gps devices. with much ease.

 

so we cant make pocket queries yet, we can come pretty close,

we dont have to download anything,

we can go paperless, and conduct new searches as often as we like,

 

so besides giving money directly to the site and being able to post in the off topic section what real incentives are there anymore?

[+brslk]

You see no reason to "give" money to Groundspeak?

 

Really?

 

Do you refuse to pay taxes because the roads are there anyway?

[ashnikes]

youre taking my question in a different direction, not unacceptable, but unexpected.

 

my argue was that new people getting into geocaching with smartphones do not need a premium membership to get a good portion of the premium membership goods.

 

in fact the only things i can see that premium members get smartphone users dont, is a title of "premium member" which means you pay an anual fee of what 30$? to a virtual third party for a site that is a virtual backup of your real geologs, that costs roughly 100 bucks a year to maintain, total,

 

and that you get to post in the off topic section of the forums which only what 15% of all users use anyway?

 

not that i dont personally want to pump money into the system, for a game i enjoy, but what is that money going towards? who does it benefit? Is it going to pay for the restoration of land geocachers tear up each year? is it going towards paying for memberships of people who cant afford it? is it going towards puting better swag in geocaches? who knows....

 

as far as i know the reviewers are volunteers, the clean up projects are made possible through volunteers, the events... volunteers, where is all that money going?

 

so my original point is that with my smartphone why should i pay a yearly fee?

 

as for taxes...

I make less than 15000 a year, i get all my taxes back, i make enough to live happily off of, and i can get medical and dental work done for next to nothing... why would i want to make more than that? so i can pay more, owe more, and worry more?

the roads were built when i was put on this earth, if they deteriorate, we should all walk more, why do you car about roads anyway, youre a geocacher.....

Edited May 30, 2010 by ashnikes

[+RatRunCrew]

ashnikes is right, to a degree.

I have just taken up caching using a Nokia smartphone, Trimbles app will allow me to access premium members caches, also in fieldnotes I can click the 'found it' button, this will allow me to post a log once I get back to my computer, but cant edit or view once I submit the log....Unless I click the 'found it' button once more.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Great point...why should you pay when all us other suckers are already paying.

 

You're welcome. I'm glad that I could do my part in providing you with all those free benefits, now do your part and go hide some great Caches for me to find.

 

As far as where the money goes...it's really none of our business, but there is a paid staff of around 20(I hope they are each making a minimum of 40-50K), there are offices, there are computers, Etc.

 

Edit for spelling

Edited May 30, 2010 by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

[+USMCGecko]

So I guess what the OP is saying, is that Groundspeak and Geocaching.com should limit the amount of features that one gets with the free Apps and free memberships?

 

Hey, Im down for it. Limit the features for nonpaying clients. Im a PM and a paid app iPhone user. I personally feel, I enjoy the game and if my 30 buck goes to pay the electricity it costs to run a server, than so be it.

 

I don't disagree with asking where the money goes. Im sure if someone wants to look into the financial holdings of a company there is a way. I just don't care enough to worry about that.

[+RobDJr]

I personally have no problem paying Groundspeak for premium membership, just to support the game and keep it going.

 

But it is a valid point that if many of the benefits offered by becoming a PM can be obtained, simulated, or circumvented by use of a smartphone, the overall benefit of being a PM is lessened.

 

Perhaps it is time for Groundspeak to update the benefits of being a PM to offer things that cannot be gained any other way.

 

But then, as the OP is relatively new and not a PM, I wonder if the post would be the same if the OP had a chance to experience what can be done by massaging a PQ in GSAK...

[+Isonzo Karst]

To the OP, I'd still guess that the greatest tangible benefit to you would be Pocket Queries. Which allow you to do some initial filtering for caches that you're apt to enjoy, and also munge that data further on your computer.

 

Although it's not universally true, many people will become more selective about caching over time - the initial excitement of the mere existence of caches will wear off. If you stay in the game, you may find yourself looking for ways to minimize searching for caches that aren't much fun anymore. At that point, Pocket Queries are indispensable.

 

Perhaps it is time for Groundspeak to update the benefits of being a PM to offer things that cannot be gained any other way.

 

Hey, that's a good idea! maybe they should double the number of caches you can get in a PQ! ....

Edited May 30, 2010 by Isonzo Karst

[+debaere]

So I guess what the OP is saying, is that Groundspeak and Geocaching.com should limit the amount of features that one gets with the free Apps and free memberships?

 

Hey, Im down for it. Limit the features for nonpaying clients. Im a PM and a paid app iPhone user. I personally feel, I enjoy the game and if my 30 buck goes to pay the electricity it costs to run a server, than so be it.

 

I don't disagree with asking where the money goes. Im sure if someone wants to look into the financial holdings of a company there is a way. I just don't care enough to worry about that.

 

++

 

Extra points for allowing premium members direct remote access to the database so we can write apps that directly query caches on the go. This is mostly forbidden by the TOS, but I would glady play extra for the option.

[+j1m1th1ng]

I'm a smart phone cacher. I love using my Blackberry for caching. I've found for the most part the GPS is pretty good. And I love being able to download caches right to the phone when I'm on the go and write my log right from the device after the find. However I still think my PM is well worth it. I want to support the hub for this game I enjoy and PQ's are handy.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

So you got yourself a smart-phone. You pay, what, $30/month for internet access?

 

You can connect to geocaching.com and download a few caches in your immediate area, and if you are happy with that then you're right, you don't need PQs.

 

But... geocaching.com has to build and maintain some pretty sophisticated systems for you to be able to do that. Gathering and serving that cache data to your smart-phone is neither magic nor cheap. That's where the money goes.

 

Well, that and the Ferraris they all drive.

 

I cache with a Blackberry Curve. I find PQs invaluable and would pay several times the $30. annual membership fee to get them.

 

 

As far as:

as for taxes...

I make less than 15000 a year, i get all my taxes back, i make enough to live happily off of, and i can get medical and dental work done for next to nothing... why would i want to make more than that? so i can pay more, owe more, and worry more?

the roads were built when i was put on this earth, if they deteriorate, we should all walk more, why do you car about roads anyway, youre a geocacher.....

Proclaiming yourself to be a net drain of our nation's resources probably doesn't help your argument.

[+Walts Hunting]

my argue was that new people getting into geocaching with smartphones do not need a premium membership to get a good portion of the premium membership goods.

 

So if everyone goes the smartphone way and drops the premium you expect Groundspeak to survive. it's a business and needs income. What would happen down the line at the critical is the froggie would turn off all access except for premium members.

 

Another alternative would be allow access but only premium members could log caches.

 

Those freeloaders need to remember that if no one pays then the whole hobby goes away.

 

It's not a good trend.

[GOF and Bacall]

So you got yourself a smart-phone. You pay, what, $30/month for internet access?

 

You can connect to geocaching.com and download a few caches in your immediate area, and if you are happy with that then you're right, you don't need PQs.

 

But... geocaching.com has to build and maintain some pretty sophisticated systems for you to be able to do that. Gathering and serving that cache data to your smart-phone is neither magic nor cheap. That's where the money goes.

 

Well, that and the Ferraris they all drive.

 

I cache with a Blackberry Curve. I find PQs invaluable and would pay several times the $30. annual membership fee to get them.

 

 

As far as:

as for taxes...

I make less than 15000 a year, i get all my taxes back, i make enough to live happily off of, and i can get medical and dental work done for next to nothing... why would i want to make more than that? so i can pay more, owe more, and worry more?

the roads were built when i was put on this earth, if they deteriorate, we should all walk more, why do you car about roads anyway, youre a geocacher.....

Proclaiming yourself to be a net drain of our nation's resources probably doesn't help your argument.

 

The corporate jet. Don't forget the corporate jet.

[+Chokecherry]

I use my phone in addition to my GPS for caching. I have a garmin 60csx which has limited paperless capabilities. Unless I bought a higher end model, and one I couldn't afford, PQ's would be relatively useless to me anyways unless I bought a PDA. My phone is essentially my PDA. I paid money for Groundspeak's app on my phone. So I didn't just grab a free app and run with it. I contributed to their coffers first of all.

 

Secondly the app has limited function if you are caching somewhere without cell service. Limited as in no function basically. So really for people like me that spend a substantial amount of time in places without cell service I still will pre-plan and occasionally print out my sheets for caching. PQ's still have a function there too. Allegedly, and I don't know if it's true because I didn't try it, I can put my PQ's on my phone via the app. Very helpful but I don't have a premium membership obviously at this time.

 

Chances are before I go on my summer road trip this summer I will get a premium member ship for the PQ capabilities as I will be a week in areas with shoddy phone service.

 

So to finish. It's not necessarily free to use your smart phone as your PDA and you don't necessarily get all the premium benefits.

[+Vater_Araignee]

so besides giving money directly to the site and being able to post in the off topic section what real incentives are there anymore?

Because some of us are mildly a horribly dirty word "socialistic" and we understand that a few have to pay to support the many and keep the game alive.

Go ahead, keep rubbing our noses in it, some of us who live paycheck to paycheck do other things to pay for our memberships. Ya want we should stop so that the servers slow down and they end up blocking smart phone access so that the paying members at their computers get better service?

[+Team Cotati]

youre taking my question in a different direction, not unacceptable, but unexpected.

 

my argue was that new people getting into geocaching with smartphones do not need a premium membership to get a good portion of the premium membership goods.

 

in fact the only things i can see that premium members get smartphone users dont, is a title of "premium member" which means you pay an anual fee of what 30$? to a virtual third party for a site that is a virtual backup of your real geologs, that costs roughly 100 bucks a year to maintain, total,

 

and that you get to post in the off topic section of the forums which only what 15% of all users use anyway?

 

not that i dont personally want to pump money into the system, for a game i enjoy, but what is that money going towards? who does it benefit? Is it going to pay for the restoration of land geocachers tear up each year? is it going towards paying for memberships of people who cant afford it? is it going towards puting better swag in geocaches? who knows....

 

as far as i know the reviewers are volunteers, the clean up projects are made possible through volunteers, the events... volunteers, where is all that money going?

 

so my original point is that with my smartphone why should i pay a yearly fee?

 

as for taxes...

I make less than 15000 a year, i get all my taxes back, i make enough to live happily off of, and i can get medical and dental work done for next to nothing... why would i want to make more than that? so i can pay more, owe more, and worry more?

the roads were built when i was put on this earth, if they deteriorate, we should all walk more, why do you car about roads anyway, youre a geocacher.....

 

If you use a smartphone for geocaching and that works well for you, then having a premium membership probably would not offer you significant benefits.

 

This isn't true for many other geocachers and several of them believe that they get fair value for the dollar paid for premium memberships.

 

It is my understanding that lots of geocachers who do not own smartphones are not premium members.

 

Odd how things work out, isn't it?

[+Tequila]

I would be curious how well your smart phone works in the middle of nowhere in a forest with a heavy canopy.

[+gekoo]

You see no reason to "give" money to Groundspeak?

 

Really?

 

Do you refuse to pay taxes because the roads are there anyway?

 

If the roads are barely useable: yes!

[+TreeSqueezers]

I've been using a smartphone of one flavor to Geocache for another for a few years now.

 

I keep the trusty old etrex legend around for backup just in case.

 

Either way, I have a premium membership because it keeps the site running and it's the right thing to do.

[+Walts Hunting]

it's the right thing to do.

 

That is a great statement. If you are using the site that provides a service to you that you can't get anywhere else there a responsibility to support it.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

it's the right thing to do.

 

That is a great statement. If you are using the site that provides a service to you that you can't get anywhere else there a responsibility to support it.

+2

 

All-in-all, it doesn't matter too much to the OP (I don't believe). I shall remain civil, and stop here...

[+Team Cotati]

I've been using a smartphone of one flavor to Geocache for another for a few years now.

 

I keep the trusty old etrex legend around for backup just in case.

 

Either way, I have a premium membership because it keeps the site running and it's the right thing to do.

 

"Either way, I have a premium membership because it keeps the site running and it's the right thing to do."

 

I see this sentiment posted ever once in a while.

 

I do not understand it.

 

I would predict that if people could obtain the exact same enjoyment and benefit and features from another provider for $20.00/year that significant numbers of users would use that provider. That doesn't necessarily mean that for $10.00 people would abandon geocaching.com in droves, no. However I firmly do believe that over time, all things remaining relevantly equivalent, such a provider would be successful.

 

Things remaining relevantly equivalent. Of course since this is exceedingly unlikely to happen, we can all continue renewing our premium memberships because it is the right thing to do.

 

That is certainly what I plan on doing.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Team Cotati

[+wimseyguy]

The OP has already gone on record as being a micro hater in his short career. I guess those smart phones don't do as well as GSAK and PQ's at filtering them out?

 

I can't count the number of times I have seen caches with coord updates that 'thanks for the better coords-I hid this with my ____phone.' I imagine that that the technology will improve over time, just as it has with regular GPS hand held receivers.

 

I wonder if attitudes like this will lead to an increase in PMO caches?

just sayin'...

Edited May 30, 2010 by wimseyguy

[Luckless]

Wimsey guy wrote: "I can't count the number of times I have seen caches with coord updates that 'thanks for the better coords-I hid this with my ____phone.' I imagine that that the technology will improve over time, just as it has with regular GPS hand held receivers."

 

Me too. Does bum me out a little that people think they can hide with the poor coordinates of the phone. I was talking to a new cacher at our last event who said she cached by phone and the phone had an error margin of 100 feet. Told her to stick to the bigger caches, might be harder to find micros.

 

Also talked to someone who said she tried caching with her phone and was only able to hunt for one cache before the batteries needed charging. Guess she would have therefore lost her phone service too until she could recharge.

[+David Marchand]

The OP has already gone on record as a micro hater in his short career. I guess those smart phones don't do as well as GSAK and PQ's at filtering them out?

 

I can't count the number of times I have seen caches with coord updates that 'thanks for the better coords-I hid this with my ____phone.' I imagine that that the technology will improve over time, just as it has with regular GPS hand held receivers.

 

I wonder if attitudes like this will lead to an increase in PMO caches?

just sayin'...

 

I look at it this way, i will compare geocaching to the X-box 360.

 

X-Box 360, about 300 dollars to get a good one

Geocaching, about 300 dollars for a good unit

------------------

 

now here is where it all ends FAST!

 

games for 360=60 dollars a pop, .....let's face it you will get bored on one game fast, so it can add up( i personally own over 20K in games )

 

X-Box Live Membership ( Gold) 50 dollars a year (I have 4 one for me, my 2 sons and my wife)

 

Geocaching/Groundspeak Premimum membership= 30 dollars..............

 

HMMMMMMMM, seems like we are getting a awesome deal for our money here, NO?????

 

Last time i checked, servers, HVAC controls for those servers, renting space to house the servers, and the bills, electricty, ETC do not come cheap at all............... NOW finally add in the staff, WE are luckly to be paying $30.00 dollars a year to such a awesome web experience, friend making game, and for something that is a absolute Blast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[+Panther&Pine]

The OP has already gone on record as a micro hater in his short career. I guess those smart phones don't do as well as GSAK and PQ's at filtering them out?

 

I can't count the number of times I have seen caches with coord updates that 'thanks for the better coords-I hid this with my ____phone.' I imagine that that the technology will improve over time, just as it has with regular GPS hand held receivers.

 

I wonder if attitudes like this will lead to an increase in PMO caches?

just sayin'...

 

I look at it this way, i will compare geocaching to the X-box 360.

 

X-Box 360, about 300 dollars to get a good one

Geocaching, about 300 dollars for a good unit

------------------

 

now here is where it all ends FAST!

 

games for 360=60 dollars a pop, .....let's face it you will get bored on one game fast, so it can add up( i personally own over 20K in games )

 

X-Box Live Membership ( Gold) 50 dollars a year (I have 4 one for me, my 2 sons and my wife)

 

Geocaching/Groundspeak Premimum membership= 30 dollars..............

 

HMMMMMMMM, seems like we are getting a awesome deal for our money here, NO?????

 

Last time i checked, servers, HVAC controls for those servers, renting space to house the servers, and the bills, electricty, ETC do not come cheap at all............... NOW finally add in the staff, WE are luckly to be paying $30.00 dollars a year to such a awesome web experience, friend making game, and for something that is a absolute Blast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Seriously. I want to know how to run a server farm and dev. company for 100$ a year.

Our electical bill at work to power 2 servers and 15 workstations is probably that a quarter...

 

 

Edit: I will now stop feeding the situation.

Edited May 30, 2010 by MooseJawSpruce

[+wimseyguy]

You left out a few things.

X-box-sitting on your butt, indoors, at home alone maybe in contact with virtual friends.

Geocaching- getting outdoors, getting some fresh air and exercise, and if you choose interacting with real live people.

 

X-box-discovering that cool new power or finding an easter egg.

Geocaching-discovering that cool historical, artistic, real world item right in your own backyard.

[+Setan Meyacha]

As to the OP, I think (from his previous post) he/she's a joke.

As to the subject of smartphones eventually diminishing PM; I think if Groundspeak let it be known that they were losing PM to the use of smartphones, the 'true' geocachers would convert all of their caches to PMO status in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, that would hinder the growth of the hobby/sport by denying noobs the opportunity to find out what caching is all about. I, for one and being on a small fixed income, am happy to contribute to something that gives me so much enjoyment. I would really cringe at the thought of having to convert nearly 400 caches hidden (under two names) in order to preserve our hobby/sport; but, I would do it if need be. If you can afford a smartphone, you can afford a PM; unless, of course, you are one of the many freeloaders this country supports in one way or another.

[+BulldogBlitz]

If you can afford a smartphone, you can afford a PM; unless, of course, you are one of the many freeloaders this country supports in one way or another.

 

the last two times i volunteered at the soup kitchen... there have been clients (homeless) who have had iPhones....with service...and apps.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I mostly use smartphones for caching, but GPS has plenty of uses for very rural caching or very long distance caching. And the battery life is far superior; my friend's iPhone is only good for about 4-5 hours of caching. I haven't tried my Motorola Droid for a lengthy period of caching yet, but I suspect it is no better. And the HTC Droid Incredible has half the battery life of the Motorola.

 

Yes, I can pull my phone and find nearby caches. But I really like being able to filter cache types and receive notifications. And I've learned I can use Pocket Queries on my smartphone which will be great for when I go on a trip: because really who wants to hit "Show Nearest Caches" every 5 miles?

 

And last but not least I am pretty pleased with what Groundspeak offers and enjoy the geocaching game. I've been caching for 5 months and have paid for a year's membership to support them for what they've done in addition to finding the features useful.

 

I hope that most non-premium members will have a good attitude about their membership status: that they do not feel they need the premium features and/or simply do not feel they can afford the membership, but do not have any scorn for those who do pay. I don't mind the people who are "freeloaders" (as I said I was one for months myself) just don't be a jerk about.

[+tozainamboku]

To the OP, I'd still guess that the greatest tangible benefit to you would be Pocket Queries. Which allow you to do some initial filtering for caches that you're apt to enjoy, and also munge that data further on your computer.

 

Although it's not universally true, many people will become more selective about caching over time - the initial excitement of the mere existence of caches will wear off. If you stay in the game, you may find yourself looking for ways to minimize searching for caches that aren't much fun anymore. At that point, Pocket Queries

This may depend on what you use the PQ for. Many people simply use it to load the nearest 500 or 1000 caches into their GPSr. With a smartphone you essential have that. Assuming you have cell coverage you can query for the nearest caches. Even if it just returns just the 10 or 20 nearest instead of 1000 it doesn't matter. After you have move a little ways just query again.

 

As of now, there is no filtering on smartphone query other than the closest caches, AFIK. But it wouldn't take much to provide a capability to do more advanced queries. You would likely still need a premium membership to get the level of filtering that you can only get now with a PQ (such as caches along a route).

 

Many people do additional filtering and route planning using third party tools. This currently requires downloading a significant number of caches (sometimes referred to as an offline database). The official smartphone apps will limit the number of caches that can be stored offline. Unofficial apps may exist that allow users to build offline databases on their smartphone devices. I'm fairly certain that Groundspeak would consider these unofficial apps in violation of the TOUs and will do what they can to limit their use.

 

The My Finds PQ and other techniques using pocket queries are used by many premium members to maintain statistics on their finds (and sometimes on their hides). The smartphones won't have that capability for basic members.

 

The OP may find that for the caching he does, a smartphone app is sufficient. There will be plenty of geocachers - including those using smartphones - that will find the benefits of premium membership worth the $30/year.

[+baloo&bd]

so with smartphones premium membership benefits may be obsolete...

 

the new free apps that allow smartphone users to access Groundspeak do a lot of the work premium members have been feeding their personal gps devices. with much ease.

 

so we cant make pocket queries yet, we can come pretty close,

we dont have to download anything,

we can go paperless, and conduct new searches as often as we like,

 

so besides giving money directly to the site and being able to post in the off topic section what real incentives are there anymore?

 

Main incentive would be those free apps are useless if there is no site.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

Honestly-

My smartphone is a tool, but not great.

I use my PM to do pocket queries along routes, then use GSAK to continue the filtering.

Then save data to the smartphone so when I'm out hiking I have it there even without a signal. Or while on the road and hitting pockets of roaming.

So yeah, the smartphone is just another tool, but not that great without the uses of my other tools, including the premium membership.

Edited May 30, 2010 by bramasoleiowa

[+hukilaulau]

Well, this might not be a reason for PM but a reason for at least having a gps: accurate hides.

I just noticed the first note to your first hide is to let people know the coordinates are not accurate and that you'll get out there "soon" to fix it.

I'm going to guess this game is not worth $30 a year for you, cuz you'll give it up long before your first anniversary.

[+DonB]

so with smartphones premium membership benefits may be obsolete...

 

the new free apps that allow smartphone users to access Groundspeak do a lot of the work premium members have been feeding their personal gps devices. with much ease.

 

so we cant make pocket queries yet, we can come pretty close,

we dont have to download anything,

we can go paperless, and conduct new searches as often as we like,

 

so besides giving money directly to the site and being able to post in the off topic section what real incentives are there anymore?

It costs me 8.2 cents a day to be a premium member.....how much does your smartphone cost you to use? I know AT&T charges 30 dollars a month for a data plan if you use a smartphone.

[+ihorn]

The OP has already gone on record as a micro hater in his short career. I guess those smart phones don't do as well as GSAK and PQ's at filtering them out?

 

I can't count the number of times I have seen caches with coord updates that 'thanks for the better coords-I hid this with my ____phone.' I imagine that that the technology will improve over time, just as it has with regular GPS hand held receivers.

 

I wonder if attitudes like this will lead to an increase in PMO caches?

just sayin'...

 

I look at it this way, i will compare geocaching to the X-box 360.

 

X-Box 360, about 300 dollars to get a good one

Geocaching, about 300 dollars for a good unit

------------------

 

now here is where it all ends FAST!

 

games for 360=60 dollars a pop, .....let's face it you will get bored on one game fast, so it can add up( i personally own over 20K in games )

 

X-Box Live Membership ( Gold) 50 dollars a year (I have 4 one for me, my 2 sons and my wife)

 

Geocaching/Groundspeak Premimum membership= 30 dollars..............

 

HMMMMMMMM, seems like we are getting a awesome deal for our money here, NO?????

 

Last time i checked, servers, HVAC controls for those servers, renting space to house the servers, and the bills, electricty, ETC do not come cheap at all............... NOW finally add in the staff, WE are luckly to be paying $30.00 dollars a year to such a awesome web experience, friend making game, and for something that is a absolute Blast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You are very right. The servers, and the power they consume alone each month is a huge bill. Then you add in the HVAC, and the amount of power it takes to cool the servers, and you are looking at huge bills being paid each month. Then like you said you have to figure in people's salary into the equation. The people who are being paid are making a nice amount of money. Why may you ask are they paid well, well think about it. These people code, they run servers, they run networks, they are system admins. These are very highly prized skills in this day and age, and in order to keep them they have to be compensated well. So while the OP thinks the money for a PM is just ridiculous, those of us with a clue know better.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

"Either way, I have a premium membership because it keeps the site running and it's the right thing to do."

 

I see this sentiment posted ever once in a while.

 

I do not understand it.

 

I would predict that if people could obtain the exact same enjoyment and benefit and features from another provider for $20.00/year that significant numbers of users would use that provider. That doesn't necessarily mean that for $10.00 people would abandon geocaching.com in droves, no. However I firmly do believe that over time, all things remaining relevantly equivalent, such a provider would be successful.

 

Things remaining relevantly equivalent. Of course since this is exceedingly unlikely to happen, we can all continue renewing our premium memberships because it is the right thing to do.

 

That is certainly what I plan on doing.

It has nothing to do with Groundspeak. It being "the right thing" has to do with paying for a service received, any service. I pay because I use and value the service provided.

 

If another site pops up that can provide comparable service at a lower price would I change to it? Sure. Part of "doing the right thing" is managing personal finances in a reasonable manner. Spending more when you don't have to is not reasonable.

 

'Brand loyalty' is a phrase created by the folks who want to sell you something at a price higher than the competitive market.

 

That said, would I still pay if I didn't use the premium features? Yes! Is it reasonable to pay for a service I could get for free? Yes! Operating geocaching.com is expensive. Someone has to pay for it. If not paid for by our memberships then it would be paid for by advertisements in every cache listing. I'm willing to pay to avoid that.

 

I've said since I joined that I think free service should be limited to 90 days, after that trial period either pay or go away. TPTB on the lily pad, fortunately for those who don't want to pay, don't see it that way.

Since they've built an international mega-hit and I haven't I have to bow to their wisdom.

[ashnikes]

some very good points and some very obscure and intangible ones.

"because its the right thing to do"

 

yes, my phone is not the best tool for the job, but how many times have you used a screwdriver as a hammer, and got the job done? the nice thing about the phone, is it does a bazillion things in one place, sure its 50 a month total, which equals roughly $600 a year, it replaces having to own a laptop for the most part, it makes and receives phone calls, it is a multitude of small specialty tools, including a decent gps, and now I should pay an additional $30 a year to an unknown "integral" part of geocaching in order to "do the right thing" and keep the servers running.... well, its a public game, using public data, and public places, and besides running the online logs, and data base which makes it "convenient" for all of us, pm's or not, I dont see where that money is going, ide just like to know what it goes to pay for,

 

a forum like this one for example can be hosted for about $40 a year, if not every two years, how do i know? Cause my buddy and I made one. same look and functions and everything,

 

a server is nothing more than a multitude of linked hard drives, im sure if we all got together we could store these caches on all of our personal computers, its not like they take up that much space, lets see some real numbers here.

 

as for the technicians who upkeep the servers....

there may be 5 total of them to keep a site like this running, and they probably maintain the servers once a week if not once a month, i know because i used to do that same job in the army.

 

the staff, 20 people, what do they do exactly? run the store? to make even more money on what another poster labeled as loyalty name branding so we all relate Groundspeak to geocaching, without the users, there would be no caches, without the caches there would be no need for this site, this argument is moot,

 

all i wana know is where is that $30 going exactly. and how much money is generated annually for this public game using public property, and mostly all volunteers.

 

*on a side note, do you all remember that game where you could track currency, people would write the website you could track the $1 bills on, it was essentially the same thing as travel bugs, except no one owned anything, does that game still exist?

 

**on a second side note, yes its true, using your smartphone to do geocaching can be pretty crappy sometimes, cause its not terribly accurate on occasion, it lags, its battery has a very short life span, usually 4 to 5 hours if youre lucky, and there are a million and one random apps for geocaching, i use (reference to unauthorized application removed by Groundspeak) and its pretty darn useful, doing a pocket querry on a smart phone means you have to find caches nearby, instead of plan ahead, which you can do but you need an address, and its still a bit crappy, but it works for me, as im sure it works for a lot of people, I still use my laptop to find really interesting caches, as im still learning how to use my smartphone, and when logging my hides, i will be using this site form now on instead of my phone...

http://www.getlatlon.com/

the cross hairs get me pretty darn close, close enough for geocachers to be in the ball park, then ill add decent clues so they can find the caches within a relative timeframe. Yes I intend to hide a ton more, i have a bunch of ideas, which may ush the norm, but thats fine by me, and if they get stolen, so be it, if people are having a hard time finding my caches, ill adopt new ways, tried and true methods, but for right now, im sticking with what i got, cause im broke, thanks in part ot the smartphone, so i might as well get good use out of it.

Edited May 30, 2010 by ashnikes

[+Chokecherry]

Where's George still exists.

 

There are lots of ways to support Groundspeak. Purchasing merchandise, including their own traveling items, is one way. I personally spent $10 for the application on my phone made by them as well.

 

I know that people generally loathe the idea that people use phones in lieu of PDAs or worse yet that we didn't all buy paperless able GPSr to do PQ's on but I had to make choices. I got a good GPSr that I use for other stuff besides this. I don't need one that caters to geocaching. I use my phone for many other things than geocaching and have it on me all the time. Makes sense for me to not invest in a new device to upload PQ's with. People make choices about their caching needs every day.

 

I'm sorry if my investment in their app is not deemed enough support or the further investment I plan to make in travel bugs for a trip later this summer. If I have to make a choice between investing in a membership on a website versus buying physical items to use for the game physical items is going to win out. And those are choices many of us have to make. I have seen numerous times where people's personal spending habits have been picked apart because they choose to not just support the website. And if the idea is that people should support the website because it's the right thing to do for the many... how can one ask someone to support the many that pick apart and bully about other people's personal spending choices. It makes the game feel almost openly hostile and that's not a good thing.

 

And I'm sorry I didn't have enough money to sink in to the $400 Garmin unit either to support that company as well.

[GOF and Bacall]

Can someone tell me why we are still talking to this troll?

[jholly]

I really like the bumper sticker I saw one time ...

 

The gene pool needs a chlorination.

 

And then there is always ...

 

never teach a pig to sing,

it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

 

However in this case I'm not sure the pig is annoyed.

[+Scubasonic]

ashnikes is right, to a degree.

I have just taken up caching using a Nokia smartphone, Trimbles app will allow me to access premium members caches, also in fieldnotes I can click the 'found it' button, this will allow me to post a log once I get back to my computer, but cant edit or view once I submit the log....Unless I click the 'found it' button once more.

 

I support the site because I love the game sure maybe you can get most of the benefits without being a PM but I like supporting what I enjoy, I don't like feeling like a freeloader....that is the problem with our society to many freeloaders. If I owned the site I would make it mandatory for all members to pay the $30 a year regardless.

 

Oh and I am a big FTF guy so I enjoy the NOTIFICATIONS.

 

Scubasonic

[GOF and Bacall]

I really like the bumper sticker I saw one time ...

 

The gene pool needs a chlorination.

 

And then there is always ...

 

never teach a pig to sing,

it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

 

However in this case I'm not sure the pig is annoyed.

 

I like those. Never seen the pool one before, the other is Heinlein, correct?

[jholly]

I really like the bumper sticker I saw one time ...

 

The gene pool needs a chlorination.

 

And then there is always ...

 

never teach a pig to sing,

it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

 

However in this case I'm not sure the pig is annoyed.

 

I like those. Never seen the pool one before, the other is Heinlein, correct?

 

yes

[sdarken]

a forum like this one for example can be hosted for about $40 a year, if not every two years, how do i know? Cause my buddy and I made one. same look and functions and everything,

 

a server is nothing more than a multitude of linked hard drives, im sure if we all got together we could store these caches on all of our personal computers, its not like they take up that much space, lets see some real numbers here.

 

as for the technicians who upkeep the servers....

there may be 5 total of them to keep a site like this running, and they probably maintain the servers once a week if not once a month, i know because i used to do that same job in the army.

 

It's been a long time since I've seen such a lot of incorrect information in a single post.

 

If it's such a cheap thing to set up, and easy thing to run, why don't you and your buddy create a new geocaching website and charge a $20/year for it. It sounds like you will only need a handful of members and you'll start raking in the profits. Let us know how that works out for you.

[Keystone]

there are a million and one random apps for geocaching, i use (reference to unauthorized application removed by Groundspeak) and its pretty darn useful, doing a pocket querry on a smart phone means you have to find caches nearby, instead of plan ahead, which you can do but you need an address, and its still a bit crappy, but it works for me, as im sure it works for a lot of people,

Everything makes sense now that we know how the OP accesses the website through prohibited means. Of course a premium membership or a paid application would seem irrelevant, if you are using an unauthorized application to obtain the services the rest of us pay for.

 

I am not aware of any memberships that have been terminated by Groundspeak for TOU violations due to this particular application. Perhaps a test case candidate might be identified.

[+Mr Kaswa]

I object to the use of the term "freeloader" for those who payed the money for an official GC app, they payed their $10 that GS wants and are getting what they payed for, so blame GS for allowing them so much for so little. And as far as I know it's a one time payment?! (if that is an annual payment then you can probably ignore the rest So I agree to some extent with the OP and perhaps we should be asking ourselves either, "what am I getting for my annual $30 vs a one time payment of $10"? or "why is GS giving away so much for that one time payment of $10"? if "support" has anything to do with your answer to the first question......If GS requires your/my support to pay the $30 just to support the site so they can continue to give so much away for $10 then that is a piss poor business model and we should again be questioning GS plan.

[+Coldgears]

I cache mainly using my smartphone GPS! Much easier then using the real GPS! Actual satellite images, and I get within 8 feet with tree cover!

 

I pay premium membership for the premium member cache, pocket queries... (Yes I use other apps that allow pocket queries when for only looking at specific caches I want). I use it for the google maps options, they are very useful! I also pay for the fact I like supporting Groundspeak!

[GOF and Bacall]

I object to the use of the term "freeloader" for those who payed the money for an official GC app, they payed their $10 that GS wants and are getting what they payed for, so blame GS for allowing them so much for so little. And as far as I know it's a one time payment?! (if that is an annual payment then you can probably ignore the rest So I agree to some extent with the OP and perhaps we should be asking ourselves either, "what am I getting for my annual $30 vs a one time payment of $10"? or "why is GS giving away so much for that one time payment of $10"? if "support" has anything to do with your answer to the first question......If GS requires your/my support to pay the $30 just to support the site so they can continue to give so much away for $10 then that is a piss poor business model and we should again be questioning GS plan.

 

 

reference to unauthorized application removed by Groundspeak

Freeloader

[+Mr Kaswa]

I object to the use of the term "freeloader" for those who payed the money for an official GC app, they payed their $10 that GS wants and are getting what they payed for, so blame GS for allowing them so much for so little. And as far as I know it's a one time payment?! (if that is an annual payment then you can probably ignore the rest So I agree to some extent with the OP and perhaps we should be asking ourselves either, "what am I getting for my annual $30 vs a one time payment of $10"? or "why is GS giving away so much for that one time payment of $10"? if "support" has anything to do with your answer to the first question......If GS requires your/my support to pay the $30 just to support the site so they can continue to give so much away for $10 then that is a piss poor business model and we should again be questioning GS plan.

 

 

reference to unauthorized application removed by Groundspeak

Freeloader

 

Yes you are correct, no one specifically called the users of the official app a "freeloader", however at least a few posts do use the word "freeloader" (or longer paragraphs that equate to the same thing) in conjunction with "smart phone users" rather than "smart phone users who do not pay for the official app" and I just wanted to make it clear that people who actually payed for the app etc etc etc. And I believe that the the post is still valid in that context.