South_Cache Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Vertical control disk, horizontal control disk, triangluation station disk, azimuth mark disk, survey disk etc. I think I know purpose of a bench mark disk. What is the purpose of these other disks? Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around. Capn Skully Quote Link to comment
survey tech Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 I hope you enjoy technical reading. Visit the National Geodetic Survey website and dig in. Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 http://www.ca.blm.gov/webmanual/id17.htm WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 http://www.usace.army.mil/inet/usace-docs/eng-manuals/em1110-1-1002/toc.htm WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
South_Cache Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 You guys are no help. I just wanted a general answer, obviously you know the answers. I can play the game too. Capn Skully Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around Quote Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I haven't played with the benchmark stuff really since before it became part of the show here, but let me help where I can. As I understand it, the verticle control disks only give an acurate position in terms of elevation, but not Longitude and Latitude. A horizontal disk is the opposite. Accurate Longitude and Latitude postion but not really meant to show accurate verticle postion. The other ones I could only guess at. Maybe this will spur the others to correct me. (by the way, cute car!) Quote Link to comment
South_Cache Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 Thanks for a straight answer. Thanks for the car compliment too. I am really proud of my little VW. Capn Skully Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around Quote Link to comment
+Kewaneh & Shark Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 As a general rule, a benchmark is used as a start point for some type of geodetic measurement. Most benchmarks have a specific purpose and others are multi-tasking. As EraSeek said, vertical & horizontal control benchmarks give positions relative to those terms - vertical control marks are used for elevation control, and horizontal control marks are positioned relative to a latitude & longitude, a state plane coordinate system, or even a local coordinate system. A triangulation station is used (generally) for measuring the shape of the earth using a system of large triangles. Many times these triangles were miles across. A surveyor would occupy a known point and then measure the angles between various triangulation stations - usually a church steeple, water tower, mountain top, or some other type of natural or man-made, stable and identifiable object. (After such a proceedure, hours of mathmatical calculations ensued.) Azimuth Marks are usually two points used to identify a line with a known bearing, usually True North, but they can be run east/west, or any other known bearing or direction relative to the area. Many older communities have azimuth marks in the older parts of downtown which were used to align the streets of the town. A survey disk in and of itself can be anything. Any of the before mentioned marks can be survey disks, but are not limited to survey disks. They can also be made of other things such as stones, wood posts, concrete columns, and steel pipes or rods. I've even heard of truck axles and railroad rails set vertically in the ground used as benchmarks. A survey disk is just a convienient and easily recognizable method of setting a survey control benchmark. Keep on Caching! - Kewaneh Quote Link to comment
South_Cache Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 Thanks for the straight answers. Part of my job is providing computer software support. If I told my users to go read 650 page manual so they could change their access password I wouldn't keep my job very long. Of course this is all voluntary, so if the two elitist don't wish to help they shouldn't bother to answer the question at all. Capn Skully Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around Quote Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Huh? A question was asked and links were given to where the answers could be found. It's some pretty in-depth stuff. I didn't see anyone acting elite. Jeff http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com http://www.NotAChance.com If you hide it, they will come.... Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I had to study all those things to learn what each thing meant.I could give you links to so much more of why,where and when these marks were placed.I am also still learning and like when people have given me links to read and understand.This is an expression of knowledge,I could not in one or two sitting sit and explain all the diffrent aspects that go into just one mark.CADD/CAM computer programmers have to try and take into account for all the things neccesary to make the program go the first time without having to go back because the programmer did not do all his homework.I am only an equal.I hope that I do not put the message out that I am Elite!! WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
survey tech Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I'm waiting for someone to provide me with a definition of the word "elitist". After all, it would be so very much trouble to have to look it up in that great big dictionary for myself..... Quote Link to comment
sixthings Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 and i wonder if Kewaneh's straight answers were 100% complete. Kewaneh clearly knows his stuff, there is no doubt, but there is the chance that there is a small yet vital detail left out. if the answer to changing my password is found in a 650 page manual, then all the steps will certainly be thoroughly explained. the computer guy might inadvertently skip a step by telling me in a hasty fashion. besides, if someone handed me a 650 page manual to change my password, i would probably just read the section labelled "Changing Your Password." Survey Tech, you can turn straight to the "E" section to learn what elitist is. i think we all have been given a good demonstration of what "elite" isn't. Quote Link to comment
survey tech Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Thanks for the guidance 6T, I guess I was so busy answering those 300 questions that behaving like an elitist just slipped my mind for a while. Quote Link to comment
+Kewaneh & Shark Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Don't wonder too much if my answers are 100% complete or not. They are not complete and there are details left out. In order to understand all of the little, vital, engineering-based, legal-based, out-in-the-field surveyor, decision-making details, the manuals that Surveytech and Trailblazer mentioned would have to be referenced. A forum, such as this, could not adequately cover that much detail. My answers were general answers for a general question. Keep on Caching! - Kewaneh Quote Link to comment
South_Cache Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 I am just trying to understand a little better how the marks work and how they are used. I worked for the Army Corps of Engineers as a rod man. I was told to stand over this brass disk, hold my rod vertical and we took elevation readings. When a brass disk wasn't available we made a TBM Temporary Bench Mark on the edge of a concrete slab or other fixed object. Now some 25 odd years later I am curious about what the different types are. I don't need a text book perfect answer. It sounds to me some of you guys are upset that you had to read the manual and learn this stuff to do your job. Now you don't wish to share your knowledge, that is ok too. Like I said if you don't want to help don't reply. If you ask me what a retention schedule is, I am not going to send you to the ARMA.ORG website. I'll tell you it is a plan for keeping and destroying company records according to approved legal business practices. That may not be the textbook approved answer but it is close enough for this discussion. So get over it, you started it with vague go look it yourself up answers. Capn Skully Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 As explained there is no easy answer to your Query.I have stacks of books that would take forever to start trying to explain. Example 1. Triangulation Station,a.instrument support,b.major and minor,c.monument for,d. signal at,e. symdol for. 16-1.General. Triangulation is employed extensively as a means of control for topographic and similar surveys. A Triangulation System consists of a series of triangles in which one or more of the sides of each triangle are also sides of adjacent triangles,as illustrated in FIGs. 16-1 to 16-3.The lines of a Triangle system form a network tying together the Triangulation Stations at the vertices of the triangles. If it were possible to measure one side and all the angles in a tringulation system with absolute precision, no further linear measurements would be necessary.Unavoidable errors in the field measurements,however,make it desireable that the lengths of two or more lines in each system be measured as a means of checking the computed distance.The lines whose lengths are measured are called the BASE LINES.This is just the beginng of the explanation.The Recent developtment of electronic distance measuring devices(Chapt. 7) has made feasible the method of TRILATERATION,or the measurement of all sides of the Triangles....................................................................................................................................................................GPSr 16-2. Precision of Triangulation Systems. 16-3. Triangulation Figures. 16-4. Choice of Figure. 16-5. Strength of Figure. 16-6. Base Nets. 16-7. The work of Triangulation consists of the following steps. 1. Reconnaissance. 2.Erection of signals and,in some cases,tripods or towers for elevating the signal and /or the instrument. 3. Measurement of angles between the sides of triangles(for trilateration, measurement of lengths of the triangle sides).4.In most cases,astronomical observations at one or more of the triangulation stations,in order to determine the true meridian to which azimuths are refered;also in extensive systems to determine the geographical coordinates(Longitude and Latitude) of all points in the system. 5. Measurement of BASE LINES. 6. Computations,including the adjustment of the observations,computations of the length of each triangle side,and the computation of the coordinates of the stations.....as you see this is just a couple of pages and we ain't got started yet.. Happy Geotrails WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 I am just trying to understand a little better how the marks work and how they are used. As am I Capn.... but I don't think it is something that can be summed-up in one or two paragraphs. The more I learn about it, the more I understand how complicated it is, yet simple at the same time. It's hard for me to explain what I mean by that statement. It's simple in that marks are set at known locations, yet it is complicated in how those locations were derived. I know the markds are still relevant because I still see surveyors using them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that people like survey tech, Trailblazer, Kewaneh & Shark and others have a lot of information to share with us, but since many of us are not in the trade it may be hard for some of us to grasp the information that they fully understand. I have spent a lot of time reading info at the NGS site and it has really helped me understand a lot about benchmarks. Anyways, I do appreciate the information that is shared here in this forum and have never felt like anyone was more 'elite' than I, even why I ask stupid questions. Cheers! Jeff http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com http://www.NotAChance.com If you hide it, they will come.... Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Forgot to make a note and did not want it scrambled with that rather large post...RETENTION SCHDULE;Defanition,a.That's how long I can hold it before I blow my kidney...b. Holding back on the knowledge on a needs to know basis. Ask awy ask away ask away all.Thought that I would tread on the light er side of life for a while. WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
South_Cache Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by jeff35080:_I am just trying to understand a little better how the marks work and how they are used._ As am I Capn.... but I don't think it is something that can be summed-up in one or two paragraphs. The more I learn about it, the more I understand how complicated it is, yet simple at the same time. It's hard for me to explain what I mean by that statement. It's simple in that marks are set at known locations, yet it is complicated in how those locations were derived. I know the markds are still relevant because I still see surveyors using them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that people like survey tech, Trailblazer, Kewaneh & Shark and others have a lot of information to share with us, but since many of us are not in the trade it may be hard for some of us to grasp the information that they fully understand. I have spent a lot of time reading info at the NGS site and it has really helped me understand a lot about benchmarks. Anyways, I do appreciate the information that is shared here in this forum and have never felt like anyone was more 'elite' than I, even why I ask stupid questions. Cheers! Jeff http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com http://www.NotAChance.com If you hide it, they will come.... Kewaneh & Shark did a fine job of answering my question. Enough information to help me understand what the various marks mean. That is all I wanted. Capn Skully Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around Quote Link to comment
+flask Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 the tricky part is language. i can read the technical explanations up and down, but they're incomprehensible to me. specialists tend to take for granted a certain level of familiarity. me, i make my living as a musician. i really appreciate general explanations. once i have a grasp of the concept, then technical material begins to make sense. it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.