I'm In The NGS Database

1.4k · March 6, 2003

Since the inception of the GEOCAC designation by the NGS for mark recovery by geocachers, I have been submitting my recovered marks to the NGS. I just noted that two of my recoveries have been added to the NGS database.

If you want to see what one submitted by a geocacher looks like, go the the following URL:

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_pid.prl/1

Then enter the following PIDs:

DH0995

AA1984

then hit 'submit'... then highlight the PID in the list and press 'get datasheets'.

They list recovery by GEOCACHING and my initials I found it interesting that on DH0995, they left my comments about the coordinates that I derived from my GPSr. I guess the key thing is to make sure and specify that it is a consumer grade. Of course, since I'm an amateur they didn't actually change their listed coordinates. Pretty cool! I find it interesting to know that someone else may benefit from the work/fun we are doing when hunting benchmarks. Cheers!

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

March 6, 2003

I just checked the one I submitted and it's there

ME1907

That didn't take long at all, I just submitted it last week

1.5k · March 7, 2003

Now the gov't got-ya. The left a tracer on your pc so they can track you every move in case your are in with UBL.

LOL

There are those that will beleive this. LOL

btw-I must be in there several hundred times from all the recoverys I did for my former employer (DOT).

March 7, 2003

It's also cool to get your pics in their database:

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/get_image.prl?PROCESSING=list&PID=NK0102

By the way, is there officially recognized a "GEOCACHING" organization (like the US Power Squadron) in their database, or should we still log stuff as "INDIV"?

ICQ: 5563417

1.4k · March 7, 2003

is there officially recognized a "GEOCACHING" organization

You can use the GEOCAC code for geocaching

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

March 7, 2003

How do you go about posting the records of a find? I have found a couple of benchmarks and hope to find more. I really hadn't even considered submitting the data before but it very easily could save some poor surveyor some time and effort if a Geocacher reported whether the benchmark is still present.

I am a little concerned about our "Big Brother" government tracking all of my movements though. That's why I drive around in circles looking for caches. I figure it throws them off just enough to not want to bother tracking me.

And you are very correct, someone is bound to actually believe stuff like this. God help them.

GeoSciGuy

1.4k · March 7, 2003

How do you go about posting the records of a find?

Just go to this link:

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/FORMS_PROCESSING-cgi-bin/recvy_entry_www.prl

and report it Cheers!

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

March 8, 2003

If you have pics to go with your submission, fill out the online form like normal, then email the pics to:

Sharon.Faber@noaa.gov

NOT to Deb Brown.

Art

www.yankeetoys.org

www.BudBuilt.com

http://www.ttora-ne.mainpage.net/

March 10, 2003

quote:
I am a little concerned about our "Big Brother" government tracking all of my movements though. That's why I drive around in circles looking for caches. I figure it throws them off just enough to not want to bother tracking me. GeoSciGuy

Capn Skully

Vini Vidi Velcro I came I saw I stuck around.

4.4k · March 10, 2003

Imagine that if the Hubble Telescope can look Light years looking into space,what do you think it see's when it looks at the Earth?????If you Own a newer vehicle it has a tracking device in it...woop's.

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails

1k · March 18, 2003

Update a mark if anyone sends it in, or do you have to give an elaborate description of where it is as most I see. I mean can I just say "Yes, it is still there, and heres a pic to prove it" or do will they not accept it without a description?

I would like to hunt for benchmarks in cool areas, but really dont care to go writing directions on how to get to it.

Any help appreciated!

Kar

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

Krs, Kar & Na

March 18, 2003

Yeah, all that "MARK IS 12 FEET FROM A PIPE AND 1.2 FEET FROM A WIRE HANGING OFF A STICK" is kind of weird. It also annoys me to see business names in the datasheets, as many of the businesses named have been gone since well before I was even born. It's interesting history, but it's too specific to be useful. I have not found any BM's yet but I plan to, since there are SO many of them around, and I think it's more interesting than geocaching as far as hunting is concerned.

1.7k · March 18, 2003

I have submitted to the NGS, but only if the mark has not been recovered in 20 or more years, or if the word description need updating.

One of the ones I found last Sunday hadn't been recovered since it was placed in 1949, and the word description used SOUTH instead of NORTH and had other errors.

DustyJacket

...If life was fair, a banana split would cure cancer.

March 19, 2003

Nova

The descriptions are of different quality because they were written by many different people at many different times. Once you start searching for these markers, unless you happen to be unusually lucky, you will find that the most specific descriptions are indeed the most useful. While its true that many descriptions contain references to objects that are now gone, you will find that without reference objects your rate of success will be poor. Ignoring the descriptions and counting on GPS do do the finding for you will most often prove futile, as the other experienced hunters here can attest. Remember also that before GPS, when the descriptions were written, there was no way of finding them besides the description. Its not required to make any detailed observations in a report. In fact, the great majority of recovery notes just say something like "Recovered as described". Its entirely up to you whether you care enough to take the time to help others who will come after you by writing a detailed update or not.

1k · March 20, 2003

To all for helping. It is not that I would not want to help make the benchmark easy for others to find, I just think any description I come up with would probably just make it confusing.

I like the "Recovered As Described" method and I will more than likely use it, that is unless the area has obvious changes made since its last discovery

Thanks Again! Kar

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

Krs, Kar & Na

March 20, 2003

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you're going to report to the NOAA, you should take the extra time to do it right.

While "found as described" may be easy and perhaps appropriate for some markers, it's far more valuable to report the benchmarks that need significant updating to the description and skip reporting the ones where the description is 100% accurate. Also, I wouldn't report "found as described" if there's any part of the description that is not completely accurate (even if you think the change in not significant). I urge you to take the time to correct those minimal changes.

For example: I've seen a lot of descriptions from 50+ years ago that refer to telephone pole #537 (I'd never noticed that many/most utility poles are actually numbered until I started Benchmkarking ). While it may seem obvious that pole would have decayed enough in 50 years that everyone should expect it to be gone, it doesn't take much time to say "Found as described, except that pole #537 is no longer present."

One of the things I've reported is the coordinates in my find log, but I mention that it is with a hand held consumer grade GPS.

Also, you say "here's a pic". The NOAA has very specific guidelines as the kind of pictures (plural) you need to submit, and the captions you should add to the pictures. A quick snapshot isn't sufficient. While it's a little extra work, these guidelines will help you take much more useful photos than what you would probably take. I know that the guidelines helped me. Here is the URL for the document: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/PROJECTS/INSTRUCTIONS/Digital_Photo_Requirements.pdf

This all may seem pretty anal retentive, but the NOAA is limited in the amount of submissions they can process. If this all seems like too much work, I urge you to report your finds and pics to Geocaching.com and have fun.

Scott

ICQ: 5563417

[This message was edited by smillersmiller on March 20, 2003 at 10:36 PM.]

[This message was edited by smillersmiller on March 20, 2003 at 10:37 PM.]

1k · March 23, 2003

Information is key and I appreciate any I get!!

Kar!

TEAM SHIBBY!!!!

Krs, Kar & Na

1.7k · April 12, 2003

I took about a month to post it, but I am in (twice) too:

JE1849 STATION RECOVERY (2003)

JE1849

JE1849'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2003 (WMS)

JE1849'RECOVERED MARK AND BOTH REFERENCE POINTS IN GOOD CONDITION.

JE1849'

JE1849'LOCATION OF MARK (LAT LONG) SHOULD BE ADJUSTED ABOUT 12 FEET TO THE

JE1849'SOUTH, ACCORDING TO SATELLITE PHOTOS AND MY ON THE GROUND

JE1849'OBSERVATIONS.

JE1849'

JE1849'DESCRIPTION ON REF NBR 2 SHOULD BE 2 FEET NORTH OF TELEPHONE POLE, NOT

JE1849'SOUTH, AND UNDER FENCE (OR INLINE WITH FENCE), NOT 1 FOOT WEST.

JE1849'

JE1849'NO SIGN OF WITNESS POST MARKING AZMUTH MARK, SO IT WASNT RECOVERED,

JE1849'YET.

KE1708'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2003 (WMS)

KE1708'ALSO RECOVERED PREVIOUSLY EXISTING BRASS CAP IN CONCRETE SURROUNDED BY

KE1708'PIPE GUARD RAIL. ALSO IN GOOD CONDITION.

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case...

1.3k · April 12, 2003

I've been published twice. The first one as 'INDIV', where I'm convinced the previous party didn't really look for it:

JV2023 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By

JV2023 HISTORY - 1942 MONUMENTED CGS

JV2023 HISTORY - 19900430 MARK NOT FOUND USGS

JV2023 HISTORY - 20021005 GOOD INDIV

JV2023

JV2023 STATION DESCRIPTION

JV2023

JV2023'DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1942

JV2023'12.1 MI SW FROM PINE GROVE FURNACE.

JV2023'IN ADAMS COUNTY, 12.1 MILES SOUTHWEST ALONG STATE HIGHWAY 233

JV2023'FROM THE POST OFFICE AT PINE GROVE FURNACE, CUMBERLAND COUNTY, IN

JV2023'THE TOP OF THE EAST END OF THE CONCRETE WALL ON THE NORTH SIDE OF

JV2023'THE SPILLWAY OF THE CHAMBERSBURG WATER IMPOUNDING DAM, AND 45

JV2023'FEET SOUTH OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE HIGHWAY. A STANDARD DISK,

JV2023'STAMPED Y 159 1942.

JV2023

JV2023 STATION RECOVERY (1990)

JV2023

JV2023'RECOVERY NOTE BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1990 (CDL)

JV2023'MARK NOT FOUND.

JV2023

JV2023 STATION RECOVERY (2002)

JV2023

JV2023'RECOVERY NOTE BY INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTORS 2002 (GRR)

JV2023'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION.

The second one, which thanks to DJ's post, I just checked on, only took two weeks to be published. This time, I was able to use 'GEOCAC' and it was more meaningful because I'm pretty sure this one really WASN'T found by the pros:

JV3388 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By

JV3388 HISTORY - 1942 MONUMENTED PADH

JV3388 HISTORY - 1942 GOOD CGS

JV3388 HISTORY - 19900903 MARK NOT FOUND USGS

JV3388 HISTORY - 20030315 GOOD GEOCAC

JV3388

JV3388 STATION DESCRIPTION

JV3388

JV3388'DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1942

JV3388'AT MONT ALTO.

JV3388'500 FEET NORTH ALONG STATE HIGHWAY 997 FROM THE POST OFFICE AT

JV3388'MONT ALTO, FRANKLIN COUNTY, IN THE NORTHWEST WINGWALL OF THE

JV3388'CONCRETE BRIDGE OVER THE WEST BRANCH OF ANTIETAM CREEK, AND 12.6

JV3388'FEET WEST OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE HIGHWAY. A PENNSYLVANIA STATE

JV3388'HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT STANDARD DISK, STAMPED R 157 1942.

JV3388

JV3388 STATION RECOVERY (1990)

JV3388

JV3388'RECOVERY NOTE BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1990 (BJS)

JV3388'MARK NOT FOUND.

JV3388

JV3388 STATION RECOVERY (2003)

JV3388

JV3388'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2003 (GRR)

JV3388'ROUTE 997 AS MENTIONED IN 1942 DESCRIPTION HAS BEEN RE-ROUTED. A NEW

JV3388'DESCRIPTION FOLLOWS--AT MONT ALTO. ABOUT 120 FEET NORTH ALONG ASH

JV3388'AVE. FROM THE POST OFFICE AT MONT ALTO, FRANKLIN COUNTY, IN THE

JV3388'NORTHWEST WINGWALL OF THE CONCRETE BRIDGE OVER THE WEST BRANCH OF

JV3388'THE ANTIETAM CREEK, 16' WEST OF THE CENTER LINE OF ASH AVE. (KNOWN

JV3388'AS MONT ALTO RD. OUTSIDE THE BOROUGH), AND 39.58' NORTH OF THE

JV3388'CENTER LINE OF PENN ST. A PENNSYLVANIA STATE HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT

JV3388'STANDARD DISK, STAMPED R 157 1942.

Greg

N 39 54.705'

W 77 33.137'

April 12, 2003

Nice job, Greg, thats a description revision that was merited and will probably be genuinely helpful to others in the future. It would be a good idea for everyone to take this as a good example.

April 12, 2003

I have two entries also, as indicated below. The fact that neither of these had a recovery entered for so long (NC0599 showed no recovery since 1935; NC0593 since 1954) seemed rather strange to me, as both are in populated areas with much infrastructure around. Seems like someone would have entered a recovery somewhere along the line. And believe it or not, these were my first and third finds!

NC0593 STATION RECOVERY (2003)

NC0593

NC0593'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2003 (LJS)

NC0593'RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED. APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN USED FOR REFERENCE WITHIN

NC0593'LAST FEW MONTHS AS IT WAS ENCIRCLED BY RED PAINT AND HAD AN ARROW

NC0593'POINTING AWAY FROM IT IN A NE DIRECTION.

NC0599 STATION DESCRIPTION

NC0599

NC0599'DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1935

NC0599'IN JAMESTOWN.

NC0599'IN JAMESTOWN ON ERIE R.R. 0.5 MILE WEST OF STATION ON BRIDGE NO. 34.52

NC0599'(190-FOOT GIRDER) ON EAST ABUTMENT, NORTH SIDE 12 FEET NORTH OF NORTH

NC0599'RAIL 5 FEET BELOW TOP OF RAIL.

NC0599

NC0599 STATION RECOVERY (2003)

NC0599

NC0599'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2003 (LJS)

NC0599'RECOVERED IN GOOD SHAPE. THE NORTH SET OF RAILS REFERENCED IN THE

NC0599'ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION ARE GONE, ALTHOUGH THE RAILBED WITH TIES IS STILL

NC0599'IN EXISTENCE. SOUTH SET OF RAILS IS STILL ACTIVE.

Catcher24

"You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton

April 13, 2003

Catcher

It often happens that when points like these in urban areas are frequently used by all the local surveyors, no one sees any need to send in a recovery note, since everyone who needs to know about them already does. It not a bad idea though, since, as you say, so much time has passed.

April 13, 2003

S Tech - Thanks for the info. The one that really surprised me was NC0599. As I indicated in my recovery note, the set of rails used in the original description (North rails) had been removed, so it seemed a little strange that no one had made a note of it before this. The south set of rails had also been unused for about three years, but now a local line is beginning to run on it again.

Catcher24

"You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton

1.5k · April 13, 2003

Catcher24

Just a bit of constructive criticism if I may with reports to NGS. The terms " Recovered as described and Recovered in good condition are redundant. The fact that is was recovered and in what condition is already listed in the History. Adding it into the text you are taking up server space. I think they even ask yo not to do this on the web page.

quote:
NGS QUOTE Note: Text such as RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED, or MARK NOT FOUND, or DESCRIPTION IS ADEQUATE, etc. is not necessary

It is not necessary to add this type of extraneous info, that paint will be long gone in a year or less.

quote:
NC0593'RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED. APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN USED FOR REFERENCE WITHIN
NC0593'LAST FEW MONTHS AS IT WAS ENCIRCLED BY RED PAINT AND HAD AN ARROW

NC0593'POINTING AWAY FROM IT IN A NE DIRECTION.

The info about the rails is pertinent info though and is good to note.

April 14, 2003

El Camino - Thanks for the info. What would be appropriate - simply a "Good" notation, and then any pertinent additional notes? I used the "Recovered as Described" because I had seen it used so often in other recovery notes. Being new, I thought that was appropriate. I'm sure I read the notation you refer to, but forgot it (there was just SO MUCH info on the site). I guess I'll learn as I go along - but it sure is an interesting learning experience! One thing I have noticed about this discussion board - people just want to help, not flame you. I'm almost afraid to post on the other forums. Someone usually wants to take a dig. Thanks again.

Catcher24

"You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton

April 16, 2003

I have sent in 4 or 5 recoveries via the NGS Database. 1 about 6 weeks ago, the others about 3-4 months ago and as of today none of them have been registered. Should I re-submit them again or is there someone I can call/e-mail?

Thanks

1.7k · April 16, 2003

No, don't resubmit.

Look at the data sheet on the NGS web site, not geocaching.

Geocaching has nit updated theirs.

DustyJacket

Not all those that wander are lost. But in my case...

2k · April 16, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by catcher24:
I used the "Recovered as Described" because I had seen it used so often in other recovery notes.

If you don't fill in any comments in the NGS entry, they automatically post that as "Recovered as Described" (which is one reason you see that so frequently.)

If you've already picked the "good" radio button, that will be in the NGS database so you don't need to put that in your text.

I fill in description changes if there are any...which there usually are since most of the marks in this area were set in 1947 or earlier.

April 19, 2003

DustyJacket, Thanks...I never thought to check the NGS database! Don't know why, but when I did I was pleasantly surprised to find my listings. It feels good to see your results. Thanks again

April 21, 2003

beejay & esskay - Thanks for that info. I guess that explains why I see that so often on the NGS sheets!

Catcher24

"You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton

I'm In The NGS Database

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