GPS is getting 8-billion dollar upgrade

[+notquitesane07]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gps-...0,3054578.story

 

Hello All,

 

Thought I would share what I came across today. The article is about upgrades to the GPS satellite system. Some excerts from the article include GPS being accurate enough for consumers to pinpoint things to within an arms length, it is being implemented starting this weekend, and 24 will go into orbit with 6 being reserved for spares.

 

Interesting stuff that affects us all, enjoy!

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gps-...0,3054578.story

 

Hello All,

 

Thought I would share what I came across today. The article is about upgrades to the GPS satellite system. Some excerts from the article include GPS being accurate enough for consumers to pinpoint things to within an arms length, it is being implemented starting this weekend, and 24 will go into orbit with 6 being reserved for spares.

 

Interesting stuff that affects us all, enjoy!

Key quote from that article:

...The overhaul will take a decade...

Which means that will be years before it changes anything and it will be outdated by the project's completion.

[Migs]

And to put it in perspective, the reason why we don't have such good accuracy is that terrorists could use the increased accuracy to do more accurate evil. Thus, I wouldn't expect consumer gps's to receive the "arms length" capability ever. -Migs

[+Chrysalides]

And to put it in perspective, the reason why we don't have such good accuracy is that terrorists could use the increased accuracy to do more accurate evil. Thus, I wouldn't expect consumer gps's to receive the "arms length" capability ever. -Migs

I can't tell whether you're serious or just being funny.

 

Anyway, here's a couple of links to a launch tonight. And there's a thread in GPS and Technology about it as well.

 

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/05/liv...h-gps-iif-sv-1/

http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/pages/Multimedia_Webcast.shtml

[jholly]

And to put it in perspective, the reason why we don't have such good accuracy is that terrorists could use the increased accuracy to do more accurate evil. Thus, I wouldn't expect consumer gps's to receive the "arms length" capability ever. -Migs

 

Yes, I've heard that the terrorists are working on a JDAM and improved accuracy would help this development. They are having a hard time getting the key cards for the military signal.

[+DragonsWest]

Just prevent the GPSrs from beeping a notification when they are only within arms length and things should still be fine.

 

The worst think I can think of from this is the eventual comparisons of old caches to new ones by n00bs.

 

"Dude, my California 750 said it should, like, be right here and it was, like, 20 ft away!! Please fix your coords!"

[oakenwood]

If the accuracy gets too good, it'll take the fun out of the search. "Let's see-- it should be within three feet of here. Maybe it's this stump... bingo!"

 

GPS units would need to have a "Geocacher" setting that would fuzz up the coordinates. You could choose between "Normal", "pre-Block IIF", and "differential-free", with or without WAAS.

[+Chrysalides]

If the accuracy gets too good, it'll take the fun out of the search. "Let's see-- it should be within three feet of here. Maybe it's this stump... bingo!"

 

GPS units would need to have a "Geocacher" setting that would fuzz up the coordinates. You could choose between "Normal", "pre-Block IIF", and "differential-free", with or without WAAS.

If it ever becomes a problem, let me know. I'll write you a GPX processor that will fuzz up your coordinates.

[+DragonsWest]

If the accuracy gets too good, it'll take the fun out of the search. "Let's see-- it should be within three feet of here. Maybe it's this stump... bingo!"

 

GPS units would need to have a "Geocacher" setting that would fuzz up the coordinates. You could choose between "Normal", "pre-Block IIF", and "differential-free", with or without WAAS.

If it ever becomes a problem, let me know. I'll write you a GPX processor that will fuzz up your coordinates.

 

Or you could just place a really windy cache description, which somewhere alludes to the fact the actual cache is 20 feet away, on a bearing of 270 degrees from True North.

[Migs]

And to put it in perspective, the reason why we don't have such good accuracy is that terrorists could use the increased accuracy to do more accurate evil. Thus, I wouldn't expect consumer gps's to receive the "arms length" capability ever. -Migs

I can't tell whether you're serious or just being funny.

 

Anyway, here's a couple of links to a launch tonight. And there's a thread in GPS and Technology about it as well.

 

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/05/liv...h-gps-iif-sv-1/

http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/pages/Multimedia_Webcast.shtml

 

Hi Chrysalides:

I didn't mean to be witty. I remember that GPS as it is now is quite accurate, ONLY if you have military technology. (because they have the codes to read the encrypted "high accuracy" signal). Unfortunately our world is no longer as safe as it was about 25 years ago. "Selective Availiability" which is another word for fuzzy accuracy was put in place so that only military could have good signals until in the Clinton years it was eliminated. If the signal ever gets one meter accuracy you can be sure that "Selective Availiability" by another name will be implemented. The bottom line, is geocachers are civilians, and civilians can include a much smaller subset called terrorists, so we will never get such good info from our civilian gps's because of the risk that the technology can be misused.

Just one other civilian way to get a good signal is expensive: Some of the high end surveying equipment have access to this more accurate signal, but the cost is somewhere around $14,000 for a Leica or Zeiss unit.

Migs

[+fizzymagic]

I didn't mean to be witty. I remember that GPS as it is now is quite accurate, ONLY if you have military technology. (because they have the codes to read the encrypted "high accuracy" signal).

You're wrong. "Selective Availability" (what you are describing) ended in 2001. That's what all the 10-year events on May 1 were celebrating.

[+Chrysalides]

Hi, Migs,

 

Personally I don't see an increased threat from terrorism by going from, say, 10 ft accuracy, to 1 ft accuracy. Perhaps I'm wrong, terrorists have proven to be quite resourceful. Anyway, further discussion of this is going to attract the attention of a moderator and possibly the FBI You may be right, and SA may be enabled again if it does become a problem.

 

Frankly, I thought getting 10 ft accuracy from a bunch of satellites orbiting the earth at around 14,000 km/h is pretty amazing as it is.

[CoyoteRed]

And to put it in perspective, the reason why we don't have such good accuracy is that terrorists could use the increased accuracy to do more accurate evil. Thus, I wouldn't expect consumer gps's to receive the "arms length" capability ever. -Migs

Same argument was made before 2000. Pretty much saying that no one needed sub 100 foot accuracy and if we did the terrorist would use it to their advantage. Guess what? They still drive the truck to its destination. Still, walk in with bomb vests. Still used box cutters to bring down an airplane.

 

As for arm's length accuracy ruining the hobby, one can truncate the digits to provide a block larger than the ~36 square foot block we're using now. Magellans have long been able to provide arm's length accuracy, but it took about 20-30 minutes to do it. Apparently, the new system will do it on the fly. The only difference is the time frame.

 

When instantaneous pin-point accuracy comes about I foresee a new cache type, "AreaCache." Sort of like an offset cache, but you get a radius within to look. Or you are provided with the northwest and southeast coordinates that form a block in which you can find the cache. Pinpoint accuracy won't ruin the hobby.

[Migs]

fizzymagic:

 

I said "...until in the Clinton years it was eliminated"

 

All:

 

I love my GPS, and this is a fun hobby to share with my kids. I sure hope to be wrong about the accuracy not getting better for the average Joe. I've actually heard the Europeans are also trying to put up their gps satellites, and of course the Russians have some up too. Maybe one day our tech will know how to incorporate all these signals and give us better accuracy. Still, what accuracy we have now is pretty good. The future can only get better!

 

-Migs

[+fizzymagic]

fizzymagic:

I said "...until in the Clinton years it was eliminated"

Migs:

 

You also said

GPS as it is now is quite accurate, ONLY if you have military technology. (because they have the codes to read the encrypted "high accuracy" signal).

 

You were wrong. Sorry about that.

[+Pax42]

Hey Migs,

You might want to check out the Trimble Store and see just how accurate you can get for under $6000.

[+power69]

Hmmmmmmm. I wonder with this if it could help me find Arvids spine trail micro.

YEAH YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!

[+notquitesane07]

nice discussion. I agree that GPS units getting as accurate as the article describes would take some of the fun out of geocaching, at least for me. I like a little search.

[+bramasoleiowa]

And to put it in perspective, the reason why we don't have such good accuracy is that terrorists could use the increased accuracy to do more accurate evil. Thus, I wouldn't expect consumer gps's to receive the "arms length" capability ever. -Migs

 

I doubt they'd do much. The insurgent groups by my base in Iraq last fall couldn't even adjust fire to get a mortar to land within our perimeter, they always overshot by several clicks. Seems they sent their artillery experts to Afghanistan.

[knowschad]

nice discussion. I agree that GPS units getting as accurate as the article describes would take some of the fun out of geocaching, at least for me. I like a little search.

I'll write you a GSAK macro to strip off the rightmost decimal digit or two if you'd like.

[+DragonsWest]

nice discussion. I agree that GPS units getting as accurate as the article describes would take some of the fun out of geocaching, at least for me. I like a little search.

I'll write you a GSAK macro to strip off the rightmost decimal digit or two if you'd like.

 

That's Nüber Genius thinkin', that is!